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Vandal.
05-23-2011, 2:33 PM
alright guys... need a little help deciding what upper to go with... for my next build... here are the options...

1....
Riflegear 14.5 upper with battle comp 1.5
with
M4 hand guards
KAC 200m-600m rear BUIS

2....
Bravo Company upper 16' with battle comp 1.0
with
M4 hand gurads
KAC 200m-600m rear BUIS

or
"other"
and why??

glock_this
05-23-2011, 2:42 PM
YHM 5.56mm Black Diamond Carbine Top End (http://yankeehillmachine.com/store/product458.html).. pretty light weight (though they have even lighter), beautiful craftsmanship, fluted barrel, reliable, not a budget breaker but proven quality, continuos top rail, all you need in 1 purchase.

http://yankeehill.bizland.com/store/media/YHM-7800.jpg

triggs75
05-23-2011, 2:48 PM
Why the difference in lengths when bravo offers the 14.5" also. With the Riflegear selection you get the BCG as well. I do have the BCM 14.5" upper and love it, but it would be nice to support a cali shop as well.

sorry no help.

Chad

tomd1584
05-23-2011, 2:49 PM
I like the idea of a 14.5. but if you ever decide to change the BC, you'll need a gunsmith. Either way you win. Daniel Defense makes Riflegear's uppers, and they're pretty much on par with BCM.

I wouldn't choose the YHM like glockthis suggested :p. The handguards are fat, the gas block is just a clamp on, and I don't like fluted barrels-maybe on a 18"-20", but not a carbine. YMMV.

Vandal.
05-23-2011, 2:55 PM
Why the difference in lengths when bravo offers the 14.5" also. With the Riflegear selection you get the BCG as well. I do have the BCM 14.5" upper and love it, but it would be nice to support a cali shop as well.

sorry no help.

Chad

yeah the diff in the barrels because i cant technically have the BCM (14.5) shipped to me because of that stupid NFA crap (SBR) i have a lower already... and that would be a NFA no no stupid SBR crap thing..

i was going to get eh Battle comp put on at Riflegear anyways they offer gun smithing service. =)
and i do support my local shop! i look for an excuse to drive down there... =)

Vandal.
05-23-2011, 2:58 PM
I like the idea of a 14.5. but if you ever decide to change the BC, you'll need a gunsmith. Either way you win. Daniel Defense makes Riflegear's uppers, and they're pretty much on par with BCM.

I wouldn't choose the YHM like glockthis suggested :p. The handguards are fat, the gas block is just a clamp on, and I don't like fluted barrels-maybe on a 18"-20", but not a carbine. YMMV.

yeah i was thinking about the YHM gas block... or the PRI one

http://i937.photobucket.com/albums/ad214/cady_1/gasblock.jpg

triggs75
05-23-2011, 2:59 PM
yeah the diff in the barrels because i cant technically have the BCM one shipped to me because of that stupid NFA crap because i have a lower already... and that would be a NFA no no stupid SBR crap thing.. because i was going to get eh Battle comp put on at Riflegear anyways they offer gun smithing service. =)
and i do support my local shop! i look for an excuse to drive down there... =)

LOL I hear you. BCM will perm. attached the battlecomp 1.5" to it to make it legal. That is on their site as an option and that is what I did.

Just be carefull at riflegear because you will go in just for the upper and come out with 3 more partial builds. :D

Chad

Vandal.
05-23-2011, 3:12 PM
LOL I hear you. BCM will perm. attached the battlecomp 1.5" to it to make it legal. That is on their site as an option and that is what I did.

Just be carefull at riflegear because you will go in just for the upper and come out with 3 more partial builds. :D

Chad


LOL

thats why im posting... i walked in there for my GF's build... and i got one too.. "it was a good deal" i couldnt afford NOT buy it...
i swear ARs are like crack....

glock_this
05-23-2011, 3:13 PM
the gas block is just a clamp on.

yeah? aren't about 90% of the gas blocks out there clamp on? as if there is an issue with that? I have had pinned and clamp on, all take clamp on all day long as it is easier to work on and allows quicker change out if you wanted. no problems with clamp on gas blocks as I see it.

themailman
05-23-2011, 3:22 PM
Clamp on gas blocks:rolleyes:

I would go with a 16" BBL, and either of your choices will yield great results.

glock_this
05-23-2011, 3:36 PM
Clamp on gas blocks:rolleyes:

again.... why? it is utterly lame to just throw that out there with no support. It is like when the kid asks "but why" and the dad says "because I said so".. yeah, and?

you got clamp on optics, clamp on lights, clamp on bipods, clamp on vertical grips, clamp on front & rear BUIS, free float tubes use bolts, anti-walk pins use bolts, etc. etc. so many clamp and bolt on portions of the AR.... and yet here is some fundamental problem with all of the clamp on gas blocks?

bahhh

themailman
05-23-2011, 3:37 PM
again.... why? it is utterly lame to just throw that out there with no support. It is like when the kid asks "but why" and the dad says "because I said so".. yeah, and?

you got clamp on optics, clamp on lights, clamp on bipods, clamp on vertical grips, clamp on front & rear BUIS, free float tubes use bolts, anti-walk pins use bolts, etc. etc. so many clamp and bolt on portions of the AR.... and yet here is some fundamental problem with all of the clamp on gas blocks?

bahhh

Clamp on bipods are now being compared to a gas block, the very essence of semi-auto functionality. Do you know what a gas block does?

glock_this
05-23-2011, 3:41 PM
Duude, You're telling me you'd take a clamp-on gas block over a pinned FSB? I doubt that. But whatever works for you, i guess.

why is it assumed pin is necessarily better? and yes, I can, did, and will take a clamp on any day. Properly installed and torqued, please, your not going to move it in your daily usage. Your acting as though your going to ever, ever somehow twist the gas block clamp on - I mean, that is what your only real gripe could be? or is there something else as you have yet to give any reason why. "could" it happen.. sure. Will it, not likely. Just like trigger pins "could" walk out, but will it likely happen, no.

2 of the better known names - Troy and LaRue - both use set screws. a bolt based system.

themailman
05-23-2011, 3:47 PM
Ive personally seen clamp on gas blocks that you "would take anyday" come loose, causing rifle to become a single shot weapon. When you put a high volume of fire through an AR, you place alot of stress on that area. Some guys loctite their screws, but, heat is loctites enemy, and heat is found right at the gas block. It may work for you all the time, and hey, thats cool. But Im guessing (and Im sure you'll say you do the opposite) that you dont run your guns hard. Why chance it with a crucial part (because hey man, my test sample of 1 works)?

tomd1584
05-23-2011, 3:55 PM
why is it assumed pin is necessarily better? and yes, I can, did, and will take a clamp on any day. Properly installed and torqued, please, your not going to move it in your daily usage. Your acting as though your going to ever, ever somehow twist the gas block clamp on - I mean, that is what your only real gripe could be? or is there something else as you have yet to give any reason why. "could" it happen.. sure. Will it, not likely. Just like trigger pins "could" walk out, but will it likely happen, no.

2 of the better known names - Troy and LaRue - both use set screws. a bolt based system.

per Larue's website:
LT Low-profile gas block are necessary when extending your free-float handguard past your barrels gas port. LT Gas Blocks are lightweight, strong and small enough to use with almost any handguard. They mount using two set screws located at the bottom, so gun-smithing will be needed on barrels without divots.


http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=45


A little different application than just a clamp-on FSB, dont you think?

glock_this
05-23-2011, 4:12 PM
Clamp on bipods are now being compared to a gas block, the very essence of semi-auto functionality. Do you know what a gas block does?

yes, I know what a gas block does.

yes, I used the hyperbole of a bipod (an essential stable platform for many shooters mind you that must stay solid and not move) to make the point is is "clamp on" based, it is proven, stable and solid. Just like a clamp on gas block. So don't deflect with bipod or any other item itself, that was not really the point.

no, you have not yet answered my question.

Vandal.
05-23-2011, 4:15 PM
:popcorn:

glock_this
05-23-2011, 4:19 PM
Ive personally seen clamp on gas blocks that you "would take anyday" come loose, causing rifle to become a single shot weapon. When you put a high volume of fire through an AR, you place alot of stress on that area. Some guys loctite their screws, but, heat is loctites enemy, and heat is found right at the gas block. It may work for you all the time, and hey, thats cool. But Im guessing (and Im sure you'll say you do the opposite) that you dont run your guns hard. Why chance it with a crucial part (because hey man, my test sample of 1 works)?

There is heat resistant loctite and proper torque wrenches.

I have seen plenty of clamp on gas blocks, with "a high volume of fire" put down the tube hold just fine and perfect. Including my own. But then again, we all have our own definitions of "hard".

"Why chance it with a crucial part" - but that is the thing, there is no reason, IMHO, a property installed clamp on gas block will be more prone to come loose as any more or less than man of the "crucial parts" that also vibrate and torque on these guns.. but yet clamp on gas blocks are getting the bad rap?

and BTW, those set screws used by LaRue and Troy can also unscrew, no :)

shark92651
05-23-2011, 4:20 PM
Well if what you really want is a 14.5" upper then just get the RifleGear -and I am not just saying that because I am the one that will be personally building your upper and attaching your muzzle device ;)

glock_this
05-23-2011, 4:26 PM
A little different application than just a clamp-on FSB, dont you think?

very family with that sentence. and no, they are not that much different.

the "divot" is taken out of this equation and argument as the "divot" will not stop a screw from coming loose - which seems to be the concern here, no? If anything, they are more similar than you elude to. Both devices essentially clamp on and set screws use screws/bolts at the end of the day just like a clamp on. Not sure how a clamp on like a YHM that uses bolts/screws is any more likely to come loose than a LaRue that uses bolts/screws.

I will concede that "technically" speaking something like the LaRue would have less likelihood of twisting given the divots. BUT, I say that tongue and cheek given neither is ever, ever likely to come loose when properly installed. There are tens of thousands, by dozens of makers, clamp on gas blocks in use... and they are perfectly fine and the torque or scenario you would need to twist and move a properly installed clamp on gas block would likely be more than you can legitimately create.

if anything.. this kinda smells more like some elitist "ohh... gas blocks are cheapo" sentiment than one that is really based in any real world legit reasons.

glock_this
05-23-2011, 4:27 PM
Well if what you really want is a 14.5" upper then just get the RifleGear -and I am not just saying that because I am the one that will be personally building your upper and attaching your muzzle device ;)

Fair enough.. and guess what, I have a YHM and I bought it from RifleGear! :p

ha ha ha how is that for somewhat ironic

a1fabweld
05-23-2011, 7:35 PM
16" barrel is the shortest I'd go with so I'm not stuck with a permanent muzzle device. I'm not planning on clearing buildings anytime soon so the 1.5" reduction in barrel length isn't worth it for me.

As far as brands, LMT, BCM, Noveske, Rainier Arms house builds, Riflegear house builds, CMMG...There are a ton of quality uppers to choose from.

Rebellious
05-24-2011, 12:28 AM
Since you already have it narrowed down to RG and BCM you really can't go wrong. If you want another choice I'd say LMT. You can't make a wrong choice with either of the three. Good luck and let us know what you end up going with.

pyro3k2
05-24-2011, 1:03 AM
My vote goes to the Riflegear upper only because of my dislike of the BCM fanboys.




go stag. /flame suit on.

762.DEFENSE
05-24-2011, 1:19 AM
You're good to go with either.

RONIN.
05-24-2011, 1:22 AM
nothing against BCM, or YHM, but when and if at all possible, i support the local vendors.. and seeing as riflegear is a local vendor, that has AMAZING customer service.. using DD parts when building their uppers.. it is the best of both worlds..

i will say, the riflergear upper i bought for my wife, has held up great, have taken it to work with me and ran classes with it, and let students use it threw the classes.. and so far not a hicup..

ronin

p.s. not to mention BCM never has anything in stock.. BCM fans boys are going to b!tch and cry about this and get their thongs all in a wad.. but it is true, everytime i go to order from them, they don't have what i want in stock..

Vandal.
05-24-2011, 9:26 AM
go stag. /flame suit on.



i lol'd

Vandal.
05-24-2011, 9:57 AM
this is going to be my "must work no matter what" build... i'll be getting the spikes tactical nickel boron BCG (spikes "fail zero")

and well just a simple no BS carbine.

i am torn from the Rifle gear, and BCM. i believe that they are both quality products, but so far i haven’t heard from anyone that dose have a BCM upper...

and yea i am currently leaning towards the Rifle Gear (14.5) because lifetime warranty.
i was there a few times (getting my spikes lower and my GF's), the atmosphere at that shop is really easy going. The guys know their stuff and thats a big plus.

themailman
05-24-2011, 10:05 AM
this is going to be my "must work no matter what" build... i'll be getting the spikes tactical nickel boron BCG (spikes "fail zero")

and well just a simple no BS carbine.

i am torn from the Rifle gear, and BCM. i believe that they are both quality products, but so far i haven’t heard from anyone that dose have a BCM upper...

and yea i am currently leaning towards the Rifle Gear (14.5) because lifetime warranty.
i was there a few times (getting my spikes lower and my GF's), the atmosphere at that shop is really easy going. The guys know their stuff and thats a big plus.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/glockfire/IMGP7339.jpg

What do you wanna know? 5 Months of ownership, purchased brand new, 3600rds, no failures. Accurate, precise, and affordable. Is it the best thing available? No. Is it the best thing for the money you will spend, hell yes.

And lol at this whole "hating the fanboys" thing. Take a look at this $800 "budget build" and tell me that isnt more bang for your buck: http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=73857 . You can hate BCM all day, which is cool, I dont like Stag but Im sure they work. Having a bling hatred of a great product because of a few owners of said product is...well...downright retarded.

Vandal.
05-24-2011, 10:49 AM
nice glock... :)

and i have a stag, and it works.. 2K + rounds and nothing wrong. i didnt clean it for 1500 still worked.


and there is no such thing as a budge build.
i guess what it boils down to it, how has a better barrel because thats the only thing that matters the most (and M4 feed ramps)

Sumo99
05-24-2011, 11:07 AM
Both :cool:

Just some quick numbers for you. Both include Auto BCG, CH, handguards and Battle Comp, no rear sights:
The BCM 16" Carbine would run you $739 (shipping included, no tax)
The Rifle Gear 14.5" Carbine would run you $858 (free shipping, tax included)

One difference is that the Rifle Gear upper has a forged barrel and the BCM 16" carbine does not (not sure if that matters to you). If you get a BCM 16" mid length, then you have the option of getting a forged barrel and price would increase to $829.

Vandal.
05-24-2011, 12:31 PM
yeah that sounds about right as far as price. it not my cap on what i am comfortable spending but that doesn't mean i should

yeah barrels kind of do matter a little bit.... hmm

Sumo99
05-24-2011, 12:49 PM
this is going to be my "must work no matter what" build... i'll be getting the spikes tactical nickel boron BCG (spikes "fail zero")

Just read this part, that means the BCM would be an even cheaper than Rifle Gear since you wouldn't have to buy a BCG from BCM, where as the RG already comes with the BCG. If you went with RG, well, then I guess you would have a spare BCG.

Vandal.
05-24-2011, 1:45 PM
Just read this part, that means the BCM would be an even cheaper than Rifle Gear since you wouldn't have to buy a BCG from BCM, where as the RG already comes with the BCG. If you went with RG, well, then I guess you would have a spare BCG.

yeah that was part of my dilemma.
unless i keep it in the "parts box"

themailman
05-24-2011, 2:06 PM
yeah that was part of my dilemma.
unless i keep it in the "parts box"

A spare BCG is a must wth AR15's, at the very least a spare bolt and extractor.

As far as Chrome Lined barrels vs Hammer forged, I am willing to bet you anything that you will never, ever, notice the difference. And this is coming from someone WITH a BCM Hammer Forged Barrel and an LMT Chrome Lined. See here:
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/glockfire/IMGP7330.jpg

missiontrails
05-24-2011, 4:30 PM
Well if what you really want is a 14.5" upper then just get the RifleGear -and I am not just saying that because I am the one that will be personally building your upper and attaching your muzzle device ;)

You can't get any "closer" to the choice than that.

tacticalcity
05-24-2011, 4:37 PM
Why the difference in lengths when bravo offers the 14.5" also. With the Riflegear selection you get the BCG as well. I do have the BCM 14.5" upper and love it, but it would be nice to support a cali shop as well.

sorry no help.

Chad

I am not a YHM fan. The upper is great for those who love YHM handguards, YHM sights, and are all about YHM. The uppers you are looking at are a bit more standardized in that they offer more popular options than YHM.

CMMG Inc. also makes 14.5 and a 14.7 barrelled uppers with various perm. hiders. They are chrome lined and have 1:7 twist rates. I've run one for many years and swear by it. Handles both 55grain and heavier match grade ammo just fine.

Here is my M4 with the 14.7" barrel and perm. A2 hider...
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh183/tacticalcity/M4.jpg

What it looked like a year ago...
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh183/tacticalcity/IMG_0578.jpg

What it looked like many years ago...
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh183/tacticalcity/ABU_COLLECTION.jpg