PDA

View Full Version : Bolt-Action AR-15 OLL build


mltrading
12-07-2006, 4:57 PM
Let's begin a thread about bolt-action build for AR-15 OLL.

Usually such configuration is used for long-range shooting with hand-loaded ammo. My thought is, making it manual will allow me to use detachable hi-cap mags that I took possession before the ban. Also I can have the "evil" pistol grip.

Another concern is, the alteration/modification should be minimized. The most ideal solution is to use standard AR parts. The black rifles are plug'n'play toys, right?

Of course DPMS's pump-action is a solution. However, this thread is focused on bolt-action. Maybe we can discuss this pump-action later.

So far I have seen some solutions but I still have some questions. Let's discuss.



For upper receivers/bolts, I have seen such solutions:
AmeeTec Arms (http://www.ameetecarms.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5&products_id=53)
Medesha Firearms (http://www.medeshafirearms.com/Rifle%20Barrel%20Work.0.html)For other modifications, I have some comments:
Use a barrel without gas port hole frilled.
Use regular AR barrel, put gas block on but plug the gas tube/tube pin holes with set screws or weldings. Gas tube removed.
Leave the gas block as is. Just remove the gas tube.Still have some questions:
If it is a bolt-action rifle, should I still use buffer/spring?
The solutions offered by AmeeTec and Medesha look like straight-pull. It does not like Tubb-2000 with a bolt "lock" slot. Will these two solutions work properly?
Any comments, contribution, concerns are all welcome!:)

grammaton76
12-07-2006, 5:23 PM
I believe I'd go with the blocked-gas-tube route.

You could insert a piece of bar stock of the appropriate size where the gas tube ought to be, then your AR should be quite happy. Although if you are seriously going to do this, I'd recommend one of the oversized tactical charging handles.

Archenemy550
12-07-2006, 5:31 PM
If it is a bolt-action rifle, should I still use buffer/spring?

You would have to.....
How else will the bolt be pushed foward to chamber another round? Otherwise it will just get stuck in the buffer tube.

xenophobe
12-07-2006, 6:19 PM
You would have to.....
How else will the bolt be pushed foward to chamber another round? Otherwise it will just get stuck in the buffer tube.

If you use one of the uppers with a side charging handle, the buffer spring and buffer would not be necessary.

E Pluribus Unum
12-07-2006, 8:35 PM
I have tried to shoot my M1A with the gas port turned off in order to simulate single shot operation. I have found that the casing expands and makes it super difficult to manually cycle the round. I usually have to set the rifle on the butt stock and use my foot to cycle it.

It may not be as much as an issue on a .223 but I would theorize the symptoms would be similar.

Bladewurk
12-07-2006, 8:48 PM
This is what they have to do in England since 1985 or so.They refer to them as straight pulls or some such and yes there are issues with extraction.Try a search at some of the British Collector's sites.The cool thing is they can legally get Full Factory Russian Ishmaszh Semi AK103-5 with a disabled gas system!

Crazed_SS
12-07-2006, 9:41 PM
Would would be the point?

Why not just get a nice bolt-action rifle for the amount that it would cost to make a bolt-action AR?

Ryan HBC
12-07-2006, 9:54 PM
This is an interesting idea! Blocking the gas tube might be even easier to reverse than a price 50 kit if done right.

If this catches on, you might see some awesome new DOJ memo talking about "Capacity to be fired semi automatically".

Just to be clear, if I was to remove my gas tube, I could have all evil features I wanted?

SemiAutoSam
12-07-2006, 10:01 PM
But if it had "capacity to accept" a gas tube. Or if the gas hole in the barrel was still there and not plugged DOJ could say it was like the Fixed mag kits and was capable of being restored to semi auto function in a matter of minutes.

Gas hole in the barrel has to be gone or plugged.

mltrading
12-07-2006, 11:01 PM
If this catches on, you might see some awesome new DOJ memo talking about "Capacity to be fired semi automatically".


That's interesting!!!:D :D :D

Ryan HBC
12-08-2006, 11:40 AM
Can someone smarter than me go and design a gas tube block that requires a tool to remove?

I am trying to think of a design, but it is based around sticking a peice of bubble gum in the gas port inside the upper.

JPglee1
12-08-2006, 11:45 AM
Can someone smarter than me go and design a gas tube block that requires a tool to remove?

I am trying to think of a design, but it is based around sticking a peice of bubble gum in the gas port inside the upper.

http://www.ketmer.com/armforte/rgt/rgt.gif
http://www.fulton-armory.com/2TubesCloseup200x158.jpg

JP

Q
12-08-2006, 11:57 AM
it should be aligned with the holes in the handguard. you may need to drill a hole in a aluminum railed guard if it does not have the holes on top.

Ryan HBC
12-08-2006, 1:12 PM
Well then, that will suffice.

Are there any specifics in the legislation that give requirements on reversibility of the blocked gas ports?

I love it, it's the darkest and most dangerous gray area to date.

dw1784
12-08-2006, 3:22 PM
Here's Larry Medler's TUBA gun (http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jesse99/tubagun.html). The upper is slotted and the bolt carrier is fitted with a handle. Use an adjustable gas manifold, like a JP Enterprise adjustable gas block (http://www.jprifles.com/1.4.6.php) to shut off the gas(set screw on top of the block). The buffer and spring is retained so they can fit a right hand bolt release. Example of single shot block and right hand bolt release can be seen here (http://www.dctechs.com/obspage.htm).

Technically, since AR bolt's designed to lock in the extension as it's cam'd in, the buffer and spring isn't really needed- as in the pistol version of DPMS pump rifle, where it capped off at the receiver. But it really depends on owner preference, wouldn't it.:)

or just shoot the damn thing without a gas block. On my first bare upper build I shot it as soon as I put in the barrel.

beside Medesha and Compass Lake, Accuracy Speaks (http://accuracyspeaks.com/images/custom16.jpg)(who builds Rob Lethams M1A) and locally here in socal, Gary Eliseo in Anaheim, and pretty much anyone's into custom rifles can do this. Gary Eliseo's R5 using a Rem700 action is featured here (http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek074.html).

what's the point, someone asked. Since we're in Calif with very restrictive regulation, this is merely an option for those seeking to preserve their AR usage without spending a lot of $$. For competitors, AR usage is limited due to it's caliber. There's so many other platforms and calibers better suited for their purpose.

so, how'bout it, JP- care to build a nuetered AR for demontration?:D

oops, forgot about Sam and other's post on legality...I suppose to be 100% safe, order a barrel from ar15barrel.com without the gas hole? or just do as others suggest, modify the gas block or the gas tube.:)

mltrading
12-08-2006, 4:32 PM
Here's Larry Medler's TUBA gun (http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jesse99/tubagun.html). The upper is slotted and the bolt carrier is fitted with a handle.


I do not read anything about making slots or adding a bolt handle. According to the pictures there, I do not see the bolt handle.:confused:

dw1784
12-08-2006, 5:10 PM
that's just an example of his set up, his Tactfully Utilized Bolt Actuation (TUBA) rifle. It's an illustration for us AR owners that in the competition crowd, such a set up has been done and in use for a while now.

Here's (http://competitionshootingstuff.com/_wsn/page5.html) Gary Eliseo's page where he has fitted an adjustable cheekrest with said modificatons.

also, as u've already point out, Medesha (http://www.medeshafirearms.com/serv01.htm) also offers such a modification. Just wish they have a better picture on their site.

so u wanna try it?:)

JPglee1
12-08-2006, 5:14 PM
Here's Larry Medler's TUBA gun (http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jesse99/tubagun.html). The upper is slotted and the bolt carrier is fitted with a handle. Use an adjustable gas manifold, like a JP Enterprise adjustable gas block (http://www.jprifles.com/1.4.6.php) to shut off the gas(set screw on top of the block).

Dude, that is so low profile with a front sight on it I bet no one would even see that set screw.

That could be really cool. Would it be legal to turn the gas off, put a front sight on it and use it as a pull-action AR w/detachable magazines and all the evil features???


JP (not associated with JP rifles, hahaha :p )

JPglee1
12-08-2006, 5:17 PM
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jesse99/tuba2.jpg
In this version, he uses 2 different length cap-screws to turn the gas on or off... makes a lot of sense, VERY cool.

I've often thought about doing the same with an AK-47 gas block, just run a set screw in sideways to block the port, or use the grenade launcher front sight block from a Yugo...

IS THAT LEGAL??? MR. Wiese, PAGING Mr. Wiese.


J

mltrading
12-08-2006, 6:05 PM
Folks, very nice. Keep ideas/info coming..........:)