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View Full Version : So is FAB-10/Shoeless Ventures still around?


CalGunsNoob
12-07-2006, 10:26 AM
Just wondering if these guys are still selling $250 receivers.

tenpercentfirearms
12-07-2006, 10:52 AM
This is an excellent question. One of my customers supposedly talked to the guy a few weeks ago and he is supposedly still selling them. He is claiming his is the only real legal rifle or something like that. The customer needed a new magazine for his FAB-10 and the guy wouldn't sell him one to replace his broken one.

I take FAB-10s from people in trade for OLLs! http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=424092# I never did find out what the delaer price on new FAB-10s was. Anyone know? Hopefully it is more than $125, which is about my maximum cost on those trades.

naimad
12-07-2006, 11:17 AM
ive seen these at a local gun shop in the san diego area they run $279.00 stripped. and $ 399.00 assembled with lower parts kit

shooterx10
12-07-2006, 12:02 PM
I saw this on Auctionarms.com. You can get one fully assembled and the seller is located in CA.

Link to the lower: http://pictures.auctionarms.com/7871212244/7fbf664609c7a2e913d0abd4536b8566.jpg?aa=2006120712 0044

Here is the link: http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=7654134&aa=%20%20AR15%20AR-15%20California%20Legal%20Lower,%20FAB%2010%20.223 %20#1 This auction has not been relisted.

leelaw
12-07-2006, 7:05 PM
Interesting. It looks like the OLL craze has brought down the price a little bit, closer to being reasonable.

They used to run in excess of $250. Stripped.

Blue
12-07-2006, 7:28 PM
Interesting. It looks like the OLL craze has brought down the price a little bit, closer to being reasonable.

They used to run in excess of $250. Stripped.


I paid less than $200 for mine brand new from Traders "back in the day" :D

bwiese
12-07-2006, 7:44 PM
I dislike the way he tries to sell his grip with a veiled hint it's CA legal.

MonsterMan
12-07-2006, 7:49 PM
What is the big difference in function between the fab10 grip compared to the Barrett hook grip that was cadoj approved? To me it doesn't look like that much is different.

Fjold
12-07-2006, 7:50 PM
For $200, considering that you get an LPK and A2 buttstock assembly with it, you're talking about <$100 for the receiver.

Blue
12-07-2006, 7:50 PM
I dislike the way he tries to sell his grip with a veiled hint it's CA legal.


The guy is a jerk too. In 2002 I had a problem with mine. I couldn't load 10 rounds into it and pull the charging handle back without planting the buttstock into my leg/hip and yanking back really hard. 9 rounds was no problem but if I did 10 it was a chore. So I emailed the guy and he basically told me that it's not his product that was in the wrong. I ended up dremelling down the follower to give it a c*nt hair more room and it pretty much solved the problem. Once I get a 50bmg upper for it I'm going to yank the mag and fill the magwell with lead.

Blue
12-07-2006, 7:51 PM
What is the big difference in function between the fab10 grip compared to the Barrett hook grip that was cadoj approved? To me it doesn't look like that much is different.

There was a hook grip that was CADOJ approved?

bwiese
12-07-2006, 8:28 PM
The FAB10/Shoeless 'hook grip' was NOT CA approved.

Unlike the U15 stock, the web of the hand could go below the trigger line on the FAB10 grip, esp with fat hands.

It was designed for ATF compliance and he's still putting it out there like someone from CA can use it.

If you are legally able to use a pistol grip, then you can use the Shoeless hook grip.

Since that's as useless as tits on a boar, just walk away...

MonsterMan
12-07-2006, 10:13 PM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1331&d=1148990700
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1332&d=1148990712


This was the grip I was talking about. It apparently was doj approved in 2003. To me it does not look to much different than the fab10 grip. I am not sure if this is the actual 'barrett grip'. But this pic seems to come up when it is mentioned.

MM

xenophobe
12-08-2006, 1:27 AM
So is FAB-10/Shoeless Ventures still around?

WHO CARES

... Actually, I do. I hope he goes out of business soon and has to file bankruptcy. Bill Ruger was more owner considerate than this *****. It's amazing how some of the most F-d up people can operate a business and still stay around.

His product sucks. His customer service sucks. His prices suck and his personal business ethics are deplorable.

leelaw
12-08-2006, 1:32 AM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1331&d=1148990700
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1332&d=1148990712


This was the grip I was talking about. It apparently was doj approved in 2003. To me it does not look to much different than the fab10 grip. I am not sure if this is the actual 'barrett grip'. But this pic seems to come up when it is mentioned.

MM

The Barrett grip is large enough to hook your thumb onto - it has no option for your other four fingers. According to CA DOJ, that did not make it a pistol grip, since it left your other four digits hanging there.

The FAB-10 grip is ATF-approved only, NOT CA DOJ approved. The reasoning given is that the grip is long enough to use your other digits to create an awkward albiet pistol-type grip, and the metal bar is low enough to allow the web of your thumb to go below the imaginary line of "action." Web of thumb below the action, + other four digits having something to grasp to in a pistol-like grip = not CA DOJ approved.

Too bad Barrett stopped making their grip - oh well, we have a lot of ingenious alternatives out there today.

acegunnr
12-08-2006, 3:58 AM
WHO CARES

... Actually, I do. I hope he goes out of business soon and has to file bankruptcy. Bill Ruger was more owner considerate than this *****. It's amazing how some of the most F-d up people can operate a business and still stay around.

His product sucks. His customer service sucks. His prices suck and his personal business ethics are deplorable.

Hey Xeno -quit being so pc and tell us how you really feel! :D

JPglee1
12-08-2006, 4:21 AM
Once I get a 50bmg upper for it I'm going to yank the mag and fill the magwell with lead.

Hey, now thats a kickass Idea!!!

Stabilizing ballast!




JP

BigMac
12-08-2006, 4:29 AM
I sold this jerks receivers,,, he tried to make me carry his product as inventory or he wouldn't sell to me.. You have to buy 5 at a time :rolleyes:

I told him no problem, I'll call the customer and tell him to buy it elsewhere.

Almost a year later he calls me up and asks if I will transfer one for someone that bought it directly from him. So I ask him about his policy... Are you making HIM buy 5?

Screw that guy.

MonsterMan
12-08-2006, 5:08 AM
The Barrett grip is large enough to hook your thumb onto - it has no option for your other four fingers. According to CA DOJ, that did not make it a pistol grip, since it left your other four digits hanging there.

The FAB-10 grip is ATF-approved only, NOT CA DOJ approved. The reasoning given is that the grip is long enough to use your other digits to create an awkward albiet pistol-type grip, and the metal bar is low enough to allow the web of your thumb to go below the imaginary line of "action." Web of thumb below the action, + other four digits having something to grasp to in a pistol-like grip = not CA DOJ approved.

Too bad Barrett stopped making their grip - oh well, we have a lot of ingenious alternatives out there today.


Thanks. :)

MM

colossians323
12-08-2006, 11:45 AM
I sold this jerks receivers,,, he tried to make me carry his product as inventory or he wouldn't sell to me.. You have to buy 5 at a time :rolleyes:

I told him no problem, I'll call the customer and tell him to buy it elsewhere.

Almost a year later he calls me up and asks if I will transfer one for someone that bought it directly from him. So I ask him about his policy... Are you making HIM buy 5?

Screw that guy.

niiiice!

Q
12-08-2006, 12:00 PM
anyone have a pic of the barrett non pistol grip. i missed out on that one. thanks

thanks plink i saw the non grip. i was hoping to see a barrett with one on.:D

PLINK
12-08-2006, 12:35 PM
anyone have a pic of the barrett non pistol grip. i missed out on that one. thanks

See MM's post #13 in this thread.

patman
12-09-2006, 8:25 PM
What happened to that web mistress, "Patty" was it? The almost happened "show and tell" at Chabot around this time a couple of years ago?

That appears to be the last best hope fab10 had along with turning it into a 50 lower.l

veeklog
12-22-2006, 6:58 PM
I saw a stripped Fab-10 at Discount Gun in San Diego for $299 USD. I paid $180 for stripped Stag lower total with transfer. Their products suck, and so does his website

shooterx10
12-26-2006, 10:16 AM
Has anyone tried to remove the internal mag of the FAB-10? It looks like it's wedged in there pretty well with the screw that goes where the mag release bar is (on a non-neutered AR receiver) and the rivet in the front of the receiver.

http://www.fabten.com/Animation%20fab10a.gif

If not, I guess your other option is to dremel the mag lips off.

Diablo
12-26-2006, 10:23 AM
How come you guys hate him so much? I bought a CD and a couple of punches some time back and the guy that answered the phone was very nice.

xenophobe
12-26-2006, 4:57 PM
How come you guys hate him so much? I bought a CD and a couple of punches some time back and the guy that answered the phone was very nice.

Mike @ shoeless sold a Fab-10 to someone... it ended up being out of spec. When called and asked if he would fix it, he said no. After a few polite calls trying to talk him into it, Mike got all irate and hung up. He called the ATF and told him that the guy with the problem was building illegal rifles and not paying FET, so the ATF paid him a visit. Of course nothing ended up happening, but you don't call the ATF and make false claims to a customer that has a problem with a out of spec product.

If you know Kev in Martinez, ask him about it. It was his customer that got screwed by Shoeless Ventures.

bwiese
12-26-2006, 5:30 PM
He called the ATF and told him that the guy with the problem was building illegal rifles and not paying FET, so the ATF paid him a visit. Of course nothing ended up happening, but you don't call the ATF and make false claims to a customer that has a problem with a out of spec product.

If you know Kev in Martinez, ask him about it. It was his customer that got screwed by Shoeless Ventures.

Somebody should sue that c**ksucker for doing that.

Plus, Shoeless' cagey advertising about their "thumbgrip" as kinda-sorta being CA legal (but referring to separate BATF issues) is bad stuff. Those FAB10 grips are clearly illegal in CA (or so close to the line that someone with fat hands could violate 11CCR5459 definition).

Kiba
12-26-2006, 7:29 PM
I've got a couple FAB-10's... but I bought them back when CMS Engine Service was the manufacturer before they sold the rights to Shoeless (I have two, both serialed below 200, so very early production.) The quality of my receivers is much better than the Shoeless produced units I have seen. My uppers are now sitting on Stag lowers (thanks to this site) but the FAB-10's are going to stay in the safe should they ever be needed again.

The only things I've bought from Shoeless is a pair of their ring-takedown pins, and I still can't figure out how they got that poor of a surface finish. I never used them they were so rough!

Also, I also only paid $150 per receiver compared to the current highway robbery prices...

Has anyone tried to remove the internal mag of the FAB-10? It looks like it's wedged in there pretty well with the screw that goes where the mag release bar is (on a non-neutered AR receiver) and the rivet in the front of the receiver.

Remove screw, drill out the rivet head and punch the rivet body through into the receiver. The mag will then come out along with the little piece of rivet you punched out. It's a bottomless mag body, follower, and spring.

Chrism1438
12-26-2006, 8:57 PM
Get the Bushmaster CAL legal reciever. The "shoeless" sucks. I posted my experience in another area of this forum.

leelaw
12-26-2006, 9:16 PM
What happened to that web mistress, "Patty" was it? The almost happened "show and tell" at Chabot around this time a couple of years ago?

That appears to be the last best hope fab10 had along with turning it into a 50 lower.l

Patty..

Senator Patty..

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!