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Black Majik
05-22-2011, 1:17 PM
I have a quick question for the LR shooters such as Brando, M45 or any of the CAPRC guys.

What is the best method for setting up steel at certain distances, say 1500 yards or 1760?

Do you use a LRF (are there any that'll accurately range non-reflective steel that small at that distance?), or GPS?

Any methods you guys can offer is greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

RenegadeRebel
05-22-2011, 1:34 PM
Swaro range finder will get hits at 1500, and 1750 on a good day.

killshot44
05-22-2011, 1:45 PM
A Transit/Survey tool are used for most ranges.
For a DIY you could just lase something at 700yds and then lase another 300-700 yards farther from the first.
Use something larger than targets to reflect the laser.

My .02, worth exactly that.

G-forceJunkie
05-22-2011, 2:05 PM
I haven't done it, but I suppose you could use GPS, its typically accurate to 5-10 yards. Or place an intermediate target or ranging board half way: Set target, move back 900 yards, set range board (4'x4' board painted white or something) then move back to where you want to be.

brando
05-22-2011, 2:52 PM
You'll hear people make claims about LRF making accurate hits beyond 1000 yards, and while it's possible, most of the sub-$2000 LRFs have beam convergence issues beyond 1000 yards. Yes, in ideal conditions, hitting normal to the surface, you can range accurately but this is extremely rare. On top of that, most of those LRFs have weak magnification, are hand held, and the farther the target, the smaller and more difficult to get a read on it. I've gone through 3 different models and none have been anything reliable beyond 1000 yards. At this point, if I was still in the States shooting on a regular basis (I live in New Zealand now) I'd bite the bullet and order a PLRF-10 from Vectronix. Buy once, cry once.

Now, without that mil grade LRF, how have I done it in the past? Many ways. Often I would set one at 900-1200 yards to warm up on. This is a distance I determine with my LRF back to the firing point. If I can't get a good reading, then I'd come in a bit. Now with that first one in place, I'd move the second target to a further distance, pinging the first plate until I got the desired distance. This works effectively even with a decent Swaro or NewCon LRF.

Another method is to use a GPS. First mark your firing point, then find a location to set the targets and use the vector distance feature (most GPS have this) to determine the straight line distance between points.

Lastly, you can always use your reticle to range the distance. The size of your target and the type of reticle will determine your realistic max distance. With a standard mil-dot reticle I couldn't range my 10x17" targets beyond 800 yards effectively. The S&B P4F was easier because it had more scale variety to work with, but still it was hard to accurately range small targets past 1400 yards. For example, last year I was making shots that I had milled at approx 1860 yards, but I couldn't spot my first few rounds. This often means you're shooting over the target, so I dialed down the elevation, went through the process again until my buddy noticed I was hitting several hundred yards in front of the target. I ended up dialing my elevation all the way to 22-23 mil - max on my scope before I could get close. At a later date I accurately re-ranged the target location at 2300 yards! I was off by a significant amount, all because of human error in trying to mil a laptop sized target at over a mile.

Flouncer
05-22-2011, 2:54 PM
As G-force said, but you could use Google Earth and the measuring tool.
If you zoom in to max on a football field, and use the tool, it matches virtually exactly. By this I mean end to end, the field as measured with the tool is 99.97 yards..... Should be accurate enough at 1,500 or more.

May not work the way you want it to...... i.e you can find your landmarks and measure off that.

RenegadeRebel
05-22-2011, 5:14 PM
Jeez...Those Vectronix range finders cost 3700 bucks!

brando
05-22-2011, 5:21 PM
Yes, they are military grade, but you get what you paid for. I've already dropped that much into LRFs that couldn't touch the capability. If I knew then what I know now, I would have just spent the money on a PRLF-10 and tripod.

Black Majik
05-22-2011, 6:58 PM
Gentleman, thank you all for your insight and suggestions.

Brando, your post has been very helpful. I suppose the easiest would be to set the steel at a shorter distance then leap from to the next distance. I do have a 60CSX I'm hoping to see whether it has the vector distance feature. G-force, good call on making a reflective board to range.

brando
05-22-2011, 10:25 PM
That's what I use (2004 OIF3 era Garmin). Just mark your firing point, then go setup the target, mark that point and then use the waypoint function to navigate back to the firing point. It should give you a distance in whatever units you have set.

CSACANNONEER
05-23-2011, 7:27 AM
I'd use a total station (a transit only measures angles but could be used to triangulate the distance to a target if you have a known length of another leg of the triangle and know what you are doing) and a triple glass. But, since +/- .01' is not the type of accuracy we need here, I would suggest just finding a target or two about mid way and using a 1200 or 1500 yard LRF to measure <600 yards and then jump to that target and measure the next one until you get to the target you want.

45R
05-23-2011, 8:19 AM
I have a quick question for the LR shooters such as Brando, M45 or any of the CAPRC guys.

What is the best method for setting up steel at certain distances, say 1500 yards or 1760?

Do you use a LRF (are there any that'll accurately range non-reflective steel that small at that distance?), or GPS?

Any methods you guys can offer is greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

That sounds like a hoot :)

BamBam-31
05-23-2011, 10:20 AM
All I know is, we're gonna need bigger steel. :p

45R
05-23-2011, 11:08 AM
At least your getting the steel out :)

thai562
05-23-2011, 11:51 AM
You can use your Mil-Dot scope.
For 1500 yard
Step 1: post a board with 2 dots 54 inches apart at where you are shoot from.
Step 2: place your steel target at the location where the 2 dots are 1 mil apart looking through your scope.
for 1760y= the 2 dots should be 63" apart.

Black Majik
05-23-2011, 11:54 AM
Brando,
Fantastic. I'll have to play around with the GPS to figure the fuction out.

Thai,
Very neat trick. I'll have to try that one out. Any idea on size of the dots needed? I don't think I can resolve two dots at that distance. lol

At least your getting the steel out :)

Rock, paper, scissors. :D

BamBam-31
05-23-2011, 11:54 AM
Rock, paper, scissors. :D

Seeing as you're the one with the .300 win mag, you're the one that'll be wheeling the tactical wheelbarrow out there, buddy! Just remember to stand still and hold the reflective board high when you reach 1K, m'kay? :D

strangerdude
05-23-2011, 11:55 AM
I'm new to precision nut can't you just get the measurements of your target and range with a mil dot reticle? That's what I do.

thai562
05-23-2011, 12:01 PM
for the 1500y
the dot have to be about 14" diameter, if your scope's mil dot is a 1/4 mil diameter dot. and 28" if it is 1/2 mil diameter.

CSACANNONEER
05-23-2011, 12:08 PM
BM,

If you really want to do set up some targets, I might be able to meet up with you and bring a survey grade GPS unit (think big $s) and/or a total station along with a handheld GPS unit and a Lieca 1200 LRF. The first would give us a more accurate measurement and the later would give show us how much variation to expect using different meathods. Also, be aware that depending on how you want to measure distance, it can and will vary a lot. Simple GPS units are not capable of measuring slope distance, depending on how one sets up survey equipment, they can measure both slope distance and flat distances. LRFs and stadia measure slope distance only. Of course, if you know the elevation differences, you can do the math to get either answer.

You can use your Mil-Dot scope.
For 1500 yard
Step 1: post a board with 2 dots 54 inches apart at where you are shoot from.
Step 2: place your steel target at the location where the 2 dots are 1 mil apart looking through your scope.
for 1760y= the 2 dots should be 63" apart.

That's simple stadia measuring. One can do the same thing with nothing more than knowing the length of their thumb and the height of the target they want to range. Most simple, non laser, optical range finders work on this principle. Many non-mil-dot scopes can be used in the same way. You just have to know your reticle and how to use it.

Black Majik
05-23-2011, 1:17 PM
Seeing as you're the one with the .300 win mag, you're the one that'll be wheeling the tactical wheelbarrow out there, buddy! Just remember to stand still and hold the reflective board high when you reach 1K, m'kay? :D

Hehe true, damn I guess I couldn't trick anyone to haul it out there for me huh?



I'm new to precision nut can't you just get the measurements of your target and range with a mil dot reticle? That's what I do.


Yes, you can mil the distance. However at that distance it may be difficult to get an accurate measurement.


CSA,
We could definitely meet up sometime. It would be great to gain some knowledge from you as well. Thanks for your insight.

Mute
05-23-2011, 1:37 PM
Just measure multiple points between the shooting spot and the target, that are within the accuracy rating of your rangefinder.

iBkickinit
05-23-2011, 2:09 PM
I have a pair of Newcon LRB-3000's. Can range man sized to 1500-1800, some trees to roughly 2000-2200, car sized targets past 2500 (somewhat). Got them for a steal, but very handy if you shoot out in the desert or at impromptu targets.

As others have said, if you don't have that range out of yours, just measure every several hundred yards.

45R
05-23-2011, 3:38 PM
Hehe true, damn I guess I couldn't trick anyone to haul it out there for me huh?


Just haul a tactical ATV. Then you can ride out to 1750 yards in style. :)

CSACANNONEER
05-23-2011, 4:06 PM
CSA,
We could definitely meet up sometime. It would be great to gain some knowledge from you as well. Thanks for your insight.

Shoot me a PM in a couple weeks (I've got a lot going on right now) and we can try to work something out. Of course, I'd love to pick your brain and learn from you as well.

BamBam-31
05-24-2011, 10:08 AM
sigh...Looks like this is gonna happen after all. And while I'm one to talk smack to my buddies online, odds are I'm the dummy walking out there 1K yds. with the freaking reflective board. :willy_nilly:

I'll leave the GPS stuff to Black Majik. He's just smart like that. Sooooo....what would make a good reflective board? 3'x5' plywood painted white?

meltyman
05-24-2011, 10:46 AM
Dial your rifle in for that range using a ballistics table, then shoot. Put the targets where the bullets land. ;P Rifles are tools! lol.