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View Full Version : Use of military issued gear at civilian range... legal?


enchantor
12-06-2006, 4:44 PM
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Matt C
12-06-2006, 4:47 PM
It's perfectly legal IMO, no crime in possessing those mags, and you did not cause an illegal transfer/importation.

E Pluribus Unum
12-06-2006, 4:48 PM
I don't know the legalities of it but I know that in practical application unless you do something illegal like shoot up a school bus they would never be the wiser. Posession of hi-capacity magazines is not illegal. Importation into the state is. Because you did not import them, and posessing them is not illegal I doubt anything can be done to you in the civilian world.

It is more likely that UCMJ would prohibit it but as I have no clue what is or is not in the UCMJ I cannot offer anything in that regards.

luvtolean
12-06-2006, 4:52 PM
If you are shooting OLL rifles, and you want to use them, make sure they are SB-23 evil-featureless rifles too.

Reg'd AWs, Kel Tecs etc etc, are good to go.

csarel
12-06-2006, 4:54 PM
Pretty sad state of affairs when A MARINE has to ASK if he can make use of his ISSUED mag!
Semper Fi, pal!

enchantor
12-06-2006, 4:57 PM
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enchantor
12-06-2006, 5:00 PM
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E Pluribus Unum
12-06-2006, 5:01 PM
I've been using them in my Kel-tec. Thanks for the info...Damn, I had thought hi-caps were completely illegal here, but as long as you say they're from before the ban they can't do anything about it? (Or in my case, they were issued to me in state)
And I'm assuming the same rules govern hi-cap mags for pistols?

The only restrictions on magazines that I am aware of is regarding magazines capable of holding more than 10 rounds:

They cannot be imported into the state.

They cannot be given, bought, or sold within the state. They can be LOANED only if you are present at the time.

I am not an attorney. This is my interpretation of the law which may be flawed.

enchantor
12-06-2006, 5:02 PM
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6172crew
12-06-2006, 5:10 PM
I would take a sorry son of a ***** to bust a Marine using his issued magazines but you never know.

Just show them the ID card and tell them you couldnt buy a Beta C mag so you brrowed these.:D

DedEye
12-06-2006, 5:27 PM
They cannot be given, bought, or sold within the state. They can be LOANED only if you are present at the time.
I thought the law didn't say anything about buying them, meaning you could buy them, but that the seller was committing a crime.

VeryCoolCat
12-06-2006, 5:32 PM
I'm a Marine and have 30 round hi-cap magazines issued to me. Anybody know if I'm legally allowed to be using those in my personal rifles that accept M16 style magazines (at a civilian range)? I havn't had a problem as of now, but I thought I'd see what the actual rule was. Intelligent input appreciated, thanks guys.

Eric

To my knowledge, you get in trouble if you even take it off base.

E Pluribus Unum
12-06-2006, 5:33 PM
I thought the law didn't say anything about buying them, meaning you could buy them, but that the seller was committing a crime.

I guess technically you are correct. It never says anything about BUYING them. I know I sure would not want to risk it. I guess this question is for an attorney but beings selling them is illegal and the person buying them is enabling the seller to commit a crime, could the buyer be charged as an accessory?

hoffmang
12-06-2006, 5:38 PM
The military can is exempt from the lend/transfer restrictions. Possession is not a crime so go to the range and do not sweat it.

-Gene

luvtolean
12-06-2006, 5:41 PM
To my knowledge, you get in trouble if you even take it off base.

Magazines used to be a controlled item, but no longer.

Std procedure to take them home.

If you're a reservist, you have to take them home, or you wouldn't have them for drill weekends.

enchantor
12-06-2006, 5:42 PM
To my knowledge, you get in trouble if you even take it off base.

You're mistaken.

Dont Tread on Me
12-06-2006, 5:43 PM
I'm a Marine and have 30 round hi-cap magazines issued to me.

I know of no law that prohibits this. The real question is can you put up with watching the poor shooting techniques most of us practice who've not been taught to shoot to same standard as a Marine!

arguy15
12-06-2006, 5:46 PM
To my knowledge, you get in trouble if you even take it off base.
You're wrong. How would the guys that live off base bring there gear home then?

eckerph
12-06-2006, 5:47 PM
Who sez you didn't have them before 2000? burden is on the state to prove other wise, after all don't we all have a box of pre 2000 M16 mags:rolleyes:

6172crew
12-06-2006, 6:38 PM
All the new mags have dates on them, at least the ones my bro-inlaw had.

E Pluribus Unum
12-06-2006, 6:46 PM
All the new mags have dates on them, at least the ones my bro-inlaw had.

The magazine law is basically gutless. You can buy replacement parts for magazines previously owned. It would be very hard to convict on this charge but not impossible.

I would guess the only time one would get into trouble for this would be if other crimes were committed.

JOEKILLA
12-06-2006, 7:31 PM
All my magazines are with me when I came home...YEEEEEARS ago. Stayed in my buttpack and mag pouches until I caught a virus, the black rifle disease. :D

metalhead357
12-06-2006, 11:29 PM
Pretty sad state of affairs when A MARINE has to ASK if he can make use of his ISSUED mag!
Semper Fi, pal!

Alpah_friggin_men and a +1 to that statement.

But yep; Reservists have them issed as take home party favors for the weekends. As for thier "use" outside of the normal dictat.....Lord only knows since DOJ cant even instruct the 58 DA's:rolleyes:

And yes, the date codes are meaningless; you may buy replacment parts, and new tubes will/would have the newer codes; there is NO regulation or law that I know of that you must provide or keep a reciept for them parts.

EOD Guy
12-07-2006, 5:06 AM
There are two things wrong with this scenario.

First, the use of the issue magazines for personal use is misappropriation of government property.

The second issue is with the state. The legal possession of the magazines is solely for official use.

Having said that, the odds of getting in trouble are low. The only danger is if some LEO had a problem with the magazines and confiscated them. You would then have to explain to your CO, First Sergeant, or supply sergeant why that happened.

Adrian
12-07-2006, 6:49 AM
All this info is nice to know, because my buddies is coming up for the holiday(Active marine) and told me he had 15 round and 30 round clips that we can use:D . Better spend some time with him now he going on another tour of duty soon.

metalhead357
12-07-2006, 6:56 AM
All this info is nice to know, because my buddies is coming up for the holiday(Active marine) and told me he had 15 round and 30 round clips that we can use:D . Better spend some time with him now he going on another tour of duty soon.

Not quite:p http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=423955

Matt C
12-07-2006, 7:28 AM
Everyone in the Army calls em clips too. I don't think its a big deal.

enchantor
12-07-2006, 7:39 AM
There are two things wrong with this scenario.

First, the use of the issue magazines for personal use is misappropriation of government property.

The second issue is with the state. The legal possession of the magazines is solely for official use.

Having said that, the odds of getting in trouble are low. The only danger is if some LEO had a problem with the magazines and confiscated them. You would then have to explain to your CO, First Sergeant, or supply sergeant why that happened.

That's nice, but you're wrong. It's up to your command what is authorized for use outside of training. My unit, and for that matter probably the majority of the Marine Corps, encourages activities that better yourself or others. This to include school and other forms of training, including becoming more proficient with weapons. It's not the Marine Corps side of the house I'm worried about when using my gear in the civilian world.

megavolt121
12-07-2006, 8:29 AM
That's nice, but you're wrong. It's up to your command what is authorized for use outside of training. My unit, and for that matter probably the majority of the Marine Corps, encourages activities that better yourself or others. This to include school and other forms of training, including becoming more proficient with weapons. It's not the Marine Corps side of the house I'm worried about when using my gear in the civilian world.

Based off that logic...
- You should bring your M-16 home to better yourself.
- Let everyone at the range shoot said weapon to better others.
- Same goes for the SAW, M204, etc..

Let me know where and when you'll have that so I can better myself :)

enchantor
12-07-2006, 8:31 AM
Based off that logic...
- You should bring your M-16 home to better yourself.
- Let everyone at the range shoot said weapon to better others.
- Same goes for the SAW, M204, etc..

Let me know where and when you'll have that so I can better myself :)

Well, I think you missed the point of what I was saying. Obviously they're not gonna allow me to bring home military weapons, but as for other gear I already take home, they don't care if you make productive use out of it. They're assuming you're going to use some level of common sense, and that should cover the "Hey I'll just bring home a SAW and practice at the football field near my house" scenario. ;)

hoffmang
12-07-2006, 2:32 PM
Here is the law:

CA Penal Code 12020 (a)

(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be
manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or
exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity
magazine.

Go forth with your legally transferred by the military to you magazines (there is an exception much further down in the code) onto the public range as you are only in possession of legally acquired high capacity magazines.

-Gene

enchantor
12-07-2006, 2:39 PM
Thanks for the info guys, definately found the info I was looking for.

Stuka
12-07-2006, 5:05 PM
There is a group of marines that go to the range that my mother shoots at, and they bring in their issued rifles and have never had any problems with the range.