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teamnoir
05-20-2011, 1:57 PM
My apologies if there's a better forum for this.

I've just finished reading "How to Own a Gun and Stay Out of Jail" and I'm a little confused. Mostly this is an excellent book and has clarified many things for me. But one thing has gotten a little hazy.

The author seems to suggest that while unloaded long arms don't need to be locked during transport, it would be a felony to have an unloaded unlocked long arm in your car within range of a school zone.

Seems to me that in a populated area you can never tell where a school might be hidden. And so the net practical result is that unless you're very sure you're not driving through any school zones, one is virtually required to lock their long arms, which would make the traditional back window pickup truck gun rack impossible.

Without meaning to ask for authoritative legal advice, can I ask what people typically do? That is, do you always transport your long arms locked? Unlocked? Some of each? And on what criteria have you based your choices?

RealBarber
05-20-2011, 2:00 PM
http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Transporting

Stone
05-20-2011, 2:01 PM
Seems to me that in a populated area you can never tell where a school might be hidden. And so the net practical result is that unless you're very sure you're not driving through any school zones, one is virtually required to lock their long arms, which would make the traditional back window pickup truck gun rack impossible.

Traditionally, the people who put gun racks in the back window of their pick up trucks don't live in populated areas. They might more likely be 1 local school in their town (or neighboring town) and a small town sheriff that knows most people in town by name :P

popeye4
05-20-2011, 2:07 PM
http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Transporting

That link addresses handguns. I looked over the Wiki quickly and didn't find a heading for long guns.

dieselpower
05-20-2011, 2:13 PM
That link addresses handguns. I looked over the Wiki quickly and didn't find a heading for long guns.

CA law on GFSZ only addresses handguns.

in CA the longarm is NOT a firearm capable to be concealed on the person [yes its possible, but the law says otherwise].

in CA longarms must be unloaded.... thats it.

AWs must be locked in a case and have other restrictions as well.

if a LEO sees or suspects a firearm, they have every right to inspect it. so many say to cover it up to avoid all the drama.

a handgun covered up is a concealed weapon...and therefore if concealed must be in a locked case (unloaded of course).

Dhena81
05-20-2011, 2:18 PM
You have to take 3 cars one with the weapon one with the mags and one for the ammo CA sucks :D

Just don't have a round in the chamber or a loaded mag inside the magwell.

Nonconcealable firearms (rifles and shotguns) are not generally covered within the provisions of California Penal Code section 12025 and therefore are not required to be transported in a locked container. However, as with any firearm, nonconcealable firearms must be unloaded while they are being transported. A rifle or shotgun that is defined as an assault weapon pursuant to Penal Code 12276 or 12276.1 must be transported in accordance with Penal Code section 12026.1.

The above is from here http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/travel.php

Librarian
05-20-2011, 2:20 PM
That link addresses handguns. I looked over the Wiki quickly and didn't find a heading for long guns.
That's because, other than 'unloaded', there are generally no restrictions.

For registered 'assault weapons', transport is restricted as handguns, and has destination restrictions.

For Federal Gun Free School Zones, long guns are supposed to be locked in a case or a gun rack.

Trunk transport is advisable, when possible, merely to avoid folks asking questions - out of sight, out of mind.

teamnoir
05-20-2011, 2:20 PM
http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Transporting

I believe that's only relevant for concealable firearms, aka, hand guns.

My understanding is that the "locked" requirement creates an exception to the law forbidding concealed carry which thereby allows one to transport the hand gun, (aside from open carry).

However, and I'm not a lawyer, I'm just an autistic engineer who is exceedingly precise, long guns are not concealable. And therefor, no exception to the concealed carry prohibition is needed.

But I didn't really mean to start an argument about law interpretation. What I really mean to ask is...

do YOU lock your long arms every time you transport them? Do you not? And on what do you base your choice?

teamnoir
05-20-2011, 2:27 PM
if a LEO sees or suspects a firearm, they have every right to inspect it. so many say to cover it up to avoid all the drama.

That reminds me of a couple more questions...

If a LEO sees my locked case, does he have a right to demand that the case be opened so that he can inspect the presumed firearm? Or would he need more probable cause than the shape of the case?

What if I don't have the key on my person?

Is there a difference between "brandishing" and "open carry" of a long arm? That is, if I walk down the street in Oakland with a rifle over my shoulder, am I committing a crime?

teamnoir
05-20-2011, 2:32 PM
For Federal Gun Free School Zones, long guns are supposed to be locked in a case or a gun rack.

But it's not like there are signs identifying schools. Nor are they easily recognizable since many around here are quite literally leased office buildings.

And even if I saw one approaching as I drive down the street, it's not like I can make a U-turn and find another route.

popeye4
05-20-2011, 2:44 PM
I believe that's only relevant for concealable firearms, aka, hand guns.

My understanding is that the "locked" requirement creates an exception to the law forbidding concealed carry which thereby allows one to transport the hand gun, (aside from open carry).

However, and I'm not a lawyer, I'm just an autistic engineer who is exceedingly precise, long guns are not concealable. And therefor, no exception to the concealed carry prohibition is needed.

But I didn't really mean to start an argument about law interpretation. What I really mean to ask is...

do YOU lock your long arms every time you transport them? Do you not? And on what do you base your choice?

Yes, I lock my unloaded rifle(s) in a SKB hard double rifle case. I drive a pickup and the case is (usually) in the bed portion with a cable lock through the handle. That is, I'm usually going directly to either the practice range or a match where I'm not going to be stopping anywhere. If I'm going to stop (say, for lunch), I'll put the locked case in the rear seat area of the locked crew cab. I hope I'm not violating any laws. I don't have a trunk.

I do this because it isn't very hard, it helps to keep my rifle from growing legs, and would (hopefully) keep even an unreasonable officer (who might be having a bad day) from thinking I'm borderline and giving me a hard time. I'm a busy man, don't need drama, and I hope that this is drama insurance. And remember Murphy's Law is always in force: if you have an unlocked long gun, you will have a fender bender with a foam-at-the-mouth liberal about 800 ft from a school zone you didn't know was there. BOHICA.

Librarian
05-20-2011, 2:50 PM
But it's not like there are signs identifying schools. Nor are they easily recognizable since many around here are quite literally leased office buildings.

And even if I saw one approaching as I drive down the street, it's not like I can make a U-turn and find another route.

All true.

The simple answer, unfortunately not available to everyone, is to transport your long guns in the locked trunk of your vehicle.

Which is not to say by any means that GFSZ makes any sense, just that it is possible to avoid those complications.

Librarian
05-20-2011, 2:57 PM
That reminds me of a couple more questions...

(1) If a LEO sees my locked case, does he have a right to demand that the case be opened so that he can inspect the presumed firearm? Or would he need more probable cause than the shape of the case?

(2) What if I don't have the key on my person?

(3) Is there a difference between "brandishing" and "open carry" of a long arm? That is, if I walk down the street in Oakland with a rifle over my shoulder, am I committing a crime?
(1) Yes. Long term, it's probably not right, but that's how it usually plays out with 12031(e).

(2) Expect to be delayed while the officer summons a supervisor.

(3) Yes, there is a difference; walking down the street with a rifle' is not 'brandishing' - PC 417 (a) (1) Every person who, except in self-defense, in the
presence of any other person, draws or exhibits any deadly weapon
whatsoever, other than a firearm, in a rude, angry, or threatening
manner, or who in any manner, unlawfully uses a deadly weapon other
than a firearm in any fight or quarrel is guilty of a misdemeanor,
punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for not less than 30
days.
... unless you habitually walk in a rude, angry or threatening manner.

The wisdom of 'walking down the street in Oakland with a rifle over your shoulder' is for another discussion.

teamnoir
05-20-2011, 2:57 PM
The simple answer, unfortunately not available to everyone, is to transport your long guns in the locked trunk of your vehicle.

I ride a motorcycle and I drive a hatchback. The back of my car isn't separated from the front by a locking barrier. I believe that means that a firearm in the back of my car, though not visible, is also not "locked" simply by being in the car - at least, not for these purposes. I think it's still pretty theft resistant.

Sounds like I'm going to need to invest in a set of luggage locks.

teamnoir
05-20-2011, 3:03 PM
The wisdom of 'walking down the street in Oakland with a rifle over your shoulder' is for another discussion.

Granted on the wisdom.

the quoted law says "other than a firearm" twice. I'm not sure how to interpret that.

thank you for the responses.

And yes, I'll have to think on that a bit as I really am often interpreted as walking down the street in an angry or intimidating manner, (even without the rifle). I'm not usually angry. But I am typically stone faced which leads people to project that I'm angry. -shrug-

Librarian
05-20-2011, 3:39 PM
Granted on the wisdom.

the quoted law says "other than a firearm" twice. I'm not sure how to interpret that.

thank you for the responses.

And yes, I'll have to think on that a bit as I really am often interpreted as walking down the street in an angry or intimidating manner, (even without the rifle). I'm not usually angry. But I am typically stone faced which leads people to project that I'm angry. -shrug-

Oops - sorry, I quoted just the first half (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/417.html) - here's (2): (2) Every person who, except in self-defense, in the presence of
any other person, draws or exhibits any firearm, whether loaded or
unloaded, in a rude, angry, or threatening manner, or who in any
manner, unlawfully uses a firearm in any fight or quarrel is
punishable as follows: