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View Full Version : Permanently altering the AR-15 ?


Kawa-Banga
12-06-2006, 12:25 AM
While we were waiting the decision from DOJ, does anybody knows who can permanently fix the magazine on AR-15 lowers in bay area? I have Stag 15 with Prince 50 mag lock kit and so far no problem. However I read a recommendation from DOJ and they are recommending the following

Individuals who own firearms that meet the generic definition of assault weapons banned by SB 23 must do one of the following in order to comply with existing law: remove the features, sell the firearm (without the features), or permanently alter the firearm so that it cannot accept a detachable magazine.

Joe
12-06-2006, 12:32 AM
I wouldn't worry about it unless they actually push the regs through. But remember, nothing is permanent.

bwiese
12-06-2006, 12:33 AM
I wouldn't worry about it unless they actually push the regs through. But remember, nothing is permanent.

Good point.

Or, you can run with a detachable magazine and in legal gripless configuration using a MonsterMan grip or U15 stock.

leelaw
12-06-2006, 12:40 AM
You are legal as-is. Until something changes and is set in stone, don't bother jumping through unnecessary hoops.

Kawa-Banga
12-06-2006, 12:44 AM
I am prepearing just incase.. It would be nice to know a good gun smith who can make the mod just like the vulcan arms

bu-bye
12-06-2006, 12:48 AM
What you read was a Memo, not a law. The DOJ can wish and hope all they want but without a law their words mean nothing. The Memo itself was written to scare off people. They have been trying to intimidate people since last year. Many have caved but more have not and not one of us are in jail. From what we gather some 60,000 lowers have come into this state in less then 1 year. There is no way in hell 60,000 receiver just flew under the DOJ's nose. they know that we are 100% legal and their only defense is to scare people from buying them or at the very least not build them up.

NeoWeird
12-06-2006, 1:03 AM
Guys, I think he is asking so IF it goes through he can have someone lined up to do it right away.

The best answer is: $5 epoxy. Slather the sides of the mag, slide it in place and you now have a magazine epoxied in place like the DOJ suggests. Of course I would never do this until it actually became law, and even then I'd probably just run gripless.

xrMike
12-06-2006, 8:59 AM
SJGE can do it for you. They do some kind of "pinning" thing, that can't be undone with a tool. Or at least that's what they WERE doing, a few weeks ago.

JPglee1
12-06-2006, 9:02 AM
Guys, I think he is asking so IF it goes through he can have someone lined up to do it right away.

The best answer is: $5 epoxy. Slather the sides of the mag, slide it in place and you now have a magazine epoxied in place like the DOJ suggests. Of course I would never do this until it actually became law, and even then I'd probably just run gripless.

IF it goes thru JP would offer welding services at a low cost.

No jig is needed, just a couple beads around the mag/magwell.

I can do it on AR, AK, FAL, G3, pretty much anything where the gun and mag are the SAME material.

I would TIG weld the AR mag on, the rest probably a super nice, dressed, MIG weld.




If people brought me multiple jobs in one day they price would be super cheap... Prolly $20.00 to prep and weld.



JP

Aluisious
12-06-2006, 9:36 AM
While we were waiting the decision from DOJ, does anybody knows who can permanently fix the magazine on AR-15 lowers in bay area? I have Stag 15 with Prince 50 mag lock kit and so far no problem. However I read a recommendation from DOJ and they are recommending the following

Individuals who own firearms that meet the generic definition of assault weapons banned by SB 23 must do one of the following in order to comply with existing law: remove the features, sell the firearm (without the features), or permanently alter the firearm so that it cannot accept a detachable magazine.
There's no real way to permanently alter the firearm so that it cannot accept a detachable magazine. Anything can be cut away later to make it able to accept. You can Dremel a FAB10 or a CA Bushy to take a detach mag.

It's a stupid regulation and not really enforceable. Personally I am going to use the Prince50 and cover the screw with epoxy, so it would require drilling or cutting to remove. I'd like to see them try to prosecute someone for not "permanently altering" something that requires drilling or cutting to restore. I may also epoxy the magazine directly to the release in some manner to prevent the "mallet" method of removal where they crush your mag and say another one could be inserted afterward, with the idea that the epoxy on the kit would prevent a fresh mag insert.

Aluisious
12-06-2006, 9:42 AM
I'd rather live with the fixed mag than the MM grip. I like the A2 flash hider, for one, and would like the ability to add other evil features if I like. Really I'm just going to do fun range work with my AR so one magazine is enough anyway.

Prc329
12-06-2006, 9:55 AM
I bought a monsterman grip and will probably buy a new improved model but after building with my pistol grip and how easy the gun points and moves with the grip I can live with a pinned magazine. I still may build a gripless to use as a home security gun when I move to SD (a couple of acres and coyotes). The gun just feels right with a pistol grip.

Oh and my idea is JB Weld around the bottom of the receiver to "weld" the mag to the receiver.

shark92651
12-06-2006, 10:45 AM
If the regs do go through I intend to just secure the magazine with a screw from the inside. I'm sure there will be many ways to do this. A couple that come to mind:

1) drill and tap a hole to set a setscrew down into the magazine catch (internal prince50)

2) drill and tap a small hole and use a small metal tab attached to the lip of the magazine to hold it into place.

Since to remove either of these requires "disassembly of the action" (opening up the rifle) I see this as meeting the new proposed changes as well. Of course, "disassembly of the action" may be open to interpretation. Then again, since cracking open the rile seperates the trigger from the firing pin I don't see how this could ever be intrepreted any other way.

grywlfbg
12-06-2006, 2:08 PM
If the regs do go through I intend to just secure the magazine with a screw from the inside. I'm sure there will be many ways to do this. A couple that come to mind:

1) drill and tap a hole to set a setscrew down into the magazine catch (internal prince50)

Yep. This is what I'll do (if I don't end up going gripless). SJGE is offering a service to do the tapping for, IIRC, $40.

Chris

E Pluribus Unum
12-06-2006, 5:18 PM
While we were waiting the decision from DOJ, does anybody knows who can permanently fix the magazine on AR-15 lowers in bay area? I have Stag 15 with Prince 50 mag lock kit and so far no problem. However I read a recommendation from DOJ and they are recommending the following

Individuals who own firearms that meet the generic definition of assault weapons banned by SB 23 must do one of the following in order to comply with existing law: remove the features, sell the firearm (without the features), or permanently alter the firearm so that it cannot accept a detachable magazine.

I would think that if a mag lock option were ruled as not permenently attached one could buy some high temperature solder and actually solder the magazine to the receiver. It would require the finish be removed from the receiver but it should not be a problem. Solder would be fairly easy to remove in the future should you change your mind or move to another state.

SemiAutoSam
12-06-2006, 5:26 PM
You cant solder aluminum and 99% of the lower receivers are made from aluminum.

Or maybe you know how to solder aluminum ?


I would think that if a mag lock option were ruled as not permenently attached one could buy some high temperature solder and actually solder the magazine to the receiver. It would require the finish be removed from the receiver but it should not be a problem. Solder would be fairly easy to remove in the future should you change your mind or move to another state.

E Pluribus Unum
12-06-2006, 5:41 PM
You cant solder aluminum and 99% of the lower receivers are made from aluminum.

Or maybe you know how to solder aluminum ?

You can use brazing rod on aluminum. It can be tricky to do but it should be easier on anodized aluminum alloy.

SemiAutoSam
12-06-2006, 5:45 PM
Ive done a lot of different kinds of welding and brazing but this I have never done.

Where does one get the rod ? I'm assuming its some aluminum alloy ? and what kind of flux if any would be used ?

Does this require a bath of inert gas as some other forms of welding do ?




You can use brazing rod on aluminum. It can be tricky to do but it should be easier on anodized aluminum alloy.

NeoWeird
12-06-2006, 6:10 PM
Ive done a lot of different kinds of welding and brazing but this I have never done.

Where does one get the rod ? I'm assuming its some aluminum alloy ? and what kind of flux if any would be used ?

Does this require a bath of inert gas as some other forms of welding do ?

That's what I'd like to know. Brazing aluminum sounds plausible, but probably VERY hard. I can't imagine trying to heat up aluminum that high without having it turn to vapor. Next time you are brazing something, take a soda can to it to see what I mean. Just make sure you are outside so you don't die from the fumes.

E Pluribus Unum
12-06-2006, 6:15 PM
Ive done a lot of different kinds of welding and brazing but this I have never done.

Where does one get the rod ? I'm assuming its some aluminum alloy ? and what kind of flux if any would be used ?

Does this require a bath of inert gas as some other forms of welding do ?

I have a chevrolet k1500 pickup that I got into an accident with. The transmission lines going from the radiator to the transmission are pure aluminum and were damaged in the accident. I paid a local welder to braze a patch over the hole. I am not sure what he used but it worked out very well. He made it look easy (as all professionals do).

I can get you his number if you like; I am sure he would be willing to braze it for you. I understand that brazing a couple dollar aluminum line is different than taking a flame to a $200.00 gun :eek:

Mud
12-06-2006, 7:31 PM
Ive done a lot of different kinds of welding and brazing but this I have never done.

Where does one get the rod ? I'm assuming its some aluminum alloy ? and what kind of flux if any would be used ?

Does this require a bath of inert gas as some other forms of welding do ?

I bought a couple Aluminum Brazing Rods at OSH if I'm not mistaken.

Kawa-Banga
12-07-2006, 12:16 AM
Gents,
Thanks for the all suggestions/recommendations. I gathered a lots of good ideas and places to go to. Let's all hope that DOJ never pass that stupid low.

Happy Holiday Season to All.