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Inquirer
05-19-2011, 2:20 PM
Hey Guys,

Owing to being in the planning phases for an AK build and having lots of free time due to the freelance nature of my work, I keep thinking of additions and modifications to the platform that I'd love to do.

So, down to brass tacks. In the two photos below, I'm wondering what kind of sights these guys are using and how they're implemented, because they seem to be much lower profile and mounted much closer to the receiver. Can they be put on Saigas/Romys?

Here's the pics:
http://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww254/Gardner37/DSC_0021.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/rupert42/Guns/IMG_2182.jpg

Also, does anybody know of any slipover suppressors that I could use to replicate the look in the Magpul build? I'd rather not cut the barrel and deal with the corresponding loss of accuracy, in addition to inflated costs. Yes, it would be for cosmetic purposes, but last I checked so is pretty much every AR build. All input welcome and appreciated as always.

Thanks,

--Inq

P.S. Also on a side note, if anybody knows, what else would I need to mount this ACE Folding Stock Adapter (http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-254/ACE-Saiga-folding-AR15/Detail?sfs=b409312e) to my stamped AK?

EBR Works
05-19-2011, 2:37 PM
The first one looks like a Draco gas block to me.


http://www.justshootit.net/images/ak_pistol_w_solar_lock.jpg

CHS
05-19-2011, 2:45 PM
Yeah, both those guns are most likely DRACO's that were modified into SBR's later.

Inquirer
05-19-2011, 2:52 PM
Nah, the Magpul's a Saiga build. But yes, the other's a Draco. How would I do this to a Saiga? Looking at the parts and with my (granted, limited) knowledge of firearms' method of action, this probably wouldn't be possible without SBRing it without making a custom part, would it?
EDIT: Could I use this (http://www.royaltigerimports.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=381&category_id=31&vmcchk=1&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=2)?

omniman
05-19-2011, 5:09 PM
[QUOTE=Inquirer;6431100]Does anybody know of any slipover suppressors that I could use to replicate the look in the Magpul build? I'd rather not cut the barrel and deal with the corresponding loss of accuracy, in addition to inflated costs. Yes, it would be for cosmetic purposes, but last I checked so is pretty much every AR build. All input welcome and appreciated as always.QUOTE]

look here : http://www.mfiap.com/smallarms/m4-fake.shtml

http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp11/LouGaudio/M4-Gun-Fit-Combo.jpg

Inquirer
05-19-2011, 6:08 PM
PERFECT, thank you, sir! Any ideas on the Gas Blocks, folks?

MrPlink
05-19-2011, 6:19 PM
I havent seen one of those for sale on its own (the draco gasblock sight).

Might be easiest to buy a DRACO pistol then (legally of course) turn it into a rifle.

Dracos arent exactly expensive either, so it shouldnt be to tough of a project. Plenty of folks here have converted them to CA legal rifles.

Inquirer
05-19-2011, 6:31 PM
How would one go about doing that, Plink? What's accuracy like compared to a Saiga? And can't you only buy the neutered single-shot ones here?

zfields
05-21-2011, 6:33 PM
I havent seen one of those for sale on its own (the draco gasblock sight).

Might be easiest to buy a DRACO pistol then (legally of course) turn it into a rifle.

Dracos arent exactly expensive either, so it shouldnt be to tough of a project. Plenty of folks here have converted them to CA legal rifles.

Ive seen the HK style gas blocks a few places. Most seem to just sell the sight that you weld on yourself though.

Inquirer
05-21-2011, 6:40 PM
Think this one might be the one I'm going for:
http://www.royaltigerimports.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=381&category_id=31&vmcchk=1&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=2
Seems solid enough.

--Inq

Vinz
05-21-2011, 6:54 PM
How would one go about doing that, Plink? What's accuracy like compared to a Saiga? And can't you only buy the neutered single-shot ones here?

Once out of DROS you can install a 10 round magazine.

C_1
05-21-2011, 6:56 PM
Yep, the first one is a Draco, and the second one is Magpul's Saiga 223.

Draco's are easy to come by but good luck finding a Bulgarian/Russian or AIMS FSGB combo (for a "reasonable" price). Another option is to cut and weld the front sight to the gas block yourself. Or you can install a FSGB combo from a STG2000C, Krebs, Rifle Dynamics, or ACE.

Cokebottle
05-21-2011, 7:01 PM
Nah, the Magpul's a Saiga build. But yes, the other's a Draco. How would I do this to a Saiga? Looking at the parts and with my (granted, limited) knowledge of firearms' method of action, this probably wouldn't be possible without SBRing it without making a custom part, would it?
EDIT: Could I use this (http://www.royaltigerimports.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=381&category_id=31&vmcchk=1&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=2)?
The Saiga may have some problems.
The barrel may or may not be threaded... some have found threads under the FSB, others are not.
The FSB and gas block may or may not be peened, so that is also another headache in disassembly.


Reality check:

You can't use the folding buttstock on the Saiga. Minimum OAL must be no less than 30" in any operable configuration.

Fake can on the barrel would need to be a "slip over" type. You can't shorten the barrel to less than 16" without having the fake can permanently mounted.
Permanently mounted means the gas block/FSB and RSB are there forever.

I probably shouldn't ask... but why? You'd be shortening the sight radius, which will hurt accuracy. The AK already has the RSB at the rear of the barrel, so the sight radius is already 6" shorter than an AR's sight radius.

Inquirer
05-21-2011, 7:29 PM
Thanks for the info, Rich. That's a bummer about the maybe-yes, maybe-no prospects of the barrel thread.

As for the slipover can, I'm cool with that. It's mainly for aesthetic purposes, although if it eases the tensions of the purists I'd be running an optic on it so the sights would be less of an issue. I pretty much want to replicate the Magpul build (eventually). But it looks like if I'm going to try that, I should just start with a build kit as it'll have better modularity, correct?

And the folding buttstock - if I put it on a Romy AK (either a stock one, or assuming the fake can is a slipover type), will I be above the 30" folded requirement?

Also, if anybody knows about any cheaper threaded, slipover cans than this one (http://www.mfiap.com/smallarms/m4-fake.shtml), links would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance, and thanks for your constructive post Cokebottle.

--Inq

Cokebottle
05-21-2011, 8:27 PM
And the folding buttstock - if I put it on a Romy AK (either a stock one, or assuming the fake can is a slipover type), will I be above the 30" folded requirement?
If the fake can is a slipover type to get the suppressed SBR look, then the barrel is still going to be 16/18 inches.
That won't give you enough with the buttstock folded.

If the can is an add-on, then it MIGHT get you there.
Standard AK is 34.3" with the wooden buttstock.
An underfolder/sidefolder is only 25.4 when folded. You'd need to have a can that extends the barrel by 5"... and that moves away from the suppressed SBR look and into the "I live in California and want a folder" look ;)

Inquirer
05-21-2011, 8:36 PM
Which is most assuredly not the droids I'm looking for. Fixed stock it is, then. I don't feel like having a trombone sticking off the end of my otherwise-compact, easily stored rifle. Did you know of any other fake silencer manufacturers off hand?

zfields
05-21-2011, 8:41 PM
Just get yourself a badass looking brake, you will forget all about the fake silencer. Also, If you get a 20" barreled saiga, you are right at 30" overall with a side folder.

Cokebottle
05-21-2011, 8:50 PM
Which is most assuredly not the droids I'm looking for. Fixed stock it is, then. I don't feel like having a trombone sticking off the end of my otherwise-compact, easily stored rifle. Did you know of any other fake silencer manufacturers off hand?
Spikes makes one for about $40, but I'm not sure if it's the right size for the 7.62 barrel... I think it's only good for the 5.45/5.56 sizes, but I might be wrong.

But it is just a plain can with 4 small holes in the very front.

It's not cheap, but I really like the one you posted and might get one for my wife's AR22.

Inquirer
05-21-2011, 9:10 PM
Yeah, it's sexy, but I wish it didn't have the milled holes like the QD M4 silencers. Just want matte black. Oh, well, I don't have the extra $140 laying around anyway, so that's a problem for another day.

C_1
05-21-2011, 9:47 PM
The AK already has the RSB at the rear of the barrel, so the sight radius is already 6" shorter than an AR's sight radius.

Well, actually, an AR carbine and standard AK has about the same length sight radius.. Just an FYI :)

Inquirer
05-21-2011, 9:51 PM
There wouldn't be a problem mounting a Magpul BUIS set on an AK if you had, say, an Ultimak Rail and a TWS Dogleg, right? Then I could just pull the sights off altogether and be done with it and get, if I'm not mistaken, better accuracy and sight picture, no?

WishinIwerFishin
05-21-2011, 10:08 PM
PERFECT, thank you, sir! Any ideas on the Gas Blocks, folks?

First gas block is a Draco second is an AK-105 gas block..... K-Var has the 105.

http://www.k-var.com/shop/product.php?productid=16563&cat=0&page=1

As well as the fake suppressor that fits the threads on the gas block.

http://www.k-var.com/shop/product.php?productid=16886

MrPlink
05-21-2011, 10:10 PM
There wouldn't be a problem mounting a Magpul BUIS set on an AK if you had, say, an Ultimak Rail and a TWS Dogleg, right? Then I could just pull the sights off altogether and be done with it and get, if I'm not mistaken, better accuracy and sight picture, no?

bad idea, MBUS would melt on the ultimak.

You could go with some metal buis, but I think you might end up with a really tall height over bore, which would negate the utility of the sights,not to mention make for a terrible cheek weld.

I think you might want to consider buying one of these instead:

http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/robinson_arms_xcr_vltor_collapsing.jpg

although pictured in 5.56, it can be had in 7.62x39, and the set up will allow for buis, reflex sights, collapsing M4 style stock etc etc on top of it being piston operated and running on basically an AK action.

Cokebottle
05-21-2011, 10:19 PM
Well, actually, an AR carbine and standard AK has about the same length sight radius.. Just an FYI :)
Ya, but you wouldn't want to go shorter (and I prefer the middy)

Cokebottle
05-21-2011, 10:20 PM
First gas block is a Draco second is an AK-105 gas block..... K-Var has the 105.

http://www.k-var.com/shop/product.php?productid=16563&cat=0&page=1

As well as the fake suppressor that fits the threads on the gas block.

http://www.k-var.com/shop/product.php?productid=16886
So the Magpul build actually is an SBR, unless the fake can is pinned.

Inquirer
05-21-2011, 10:44 PM
So the Magpul build actually is an SBR, unless the fake can is pinned.

I don't think it's an issue. I'm gonna go with a regular muzzle brake, then upgrade to a slipover can once I can afford it and the low pro Gas Block/Front Sight.

Cheers for the pointers, guys.

--Inq

WishinIwerFishin
05-22-2011, 3:18 PM
So the Magpul build actually is an SBR, unless the fake can is pinned.

Or the fake can slips over the barrel to hide it and give the look of an SBR.....

Cokebottle
05-22-2011, 3:33 PM
Or the fake can slips over the barrel to hide it and give the look of an SBR.....
The threads are a part of the FSB on standard AK parts, not on the barrel.

As I said, SOME Saigas have a threaded barrel under the FSB muzzle extension, but it is not the same thread as a traditional AK. The FSB and gas block are different.

It could be a 16" barrel with a slip-over can if the AK-105 gas block had the threads cut off, or I suppose a custom slip-over can could have been made with enough internal clearance to accomodate the barrel, rather than just the bore.

WishinIwerFishin
05-22-2011, 3:46 PM
The threads are a part of the FSB on standard AK parts, not on the barrel.

As I said, SOME Saigas have a threaded barrel under the FSB muzzle extension, but it is not the same thread as a traditional AK. The FSB and gas block are different.

I understand all of this....Not new to the AK platform or Saigas, baught my first AK about 15 or so years ago and have went through about 15 since then.


It could be a 16" barrel with a slip-over can if the AK-105 gas block had the threads cut off, or I suppose a custom slip-over can could have been made with enough internal clearance to accomodate the barrel, rather than just the bore.


It is very possible....K-Var has extended krink breaks that will slip over the barrel to cover it with that fit standard AK74 24x1.5mm threads on the GB, not sure why the same thing couldn't be done with the fake can. I personally think the MagPull gun is an SBR, but it is possible to get an SBR look with out having to cut down the barrel and sacraficing accuracy at the cost of aesthetics.

zfields
05-22-2011, 3:52 PM
The threads are a part of the FSB on standard AK parts, not on the barrel.

As I said, SOME Saigas have a threaded barrel under the FSB muzzle extension, but it is not the same thread as a traditional AK. The FSB and gas block are different.

It could be a 16" barrel with a slip-over can if the AK-105 gas block had the threads cut off, or I suppose a custom slip-over can could have been made with enough internal clearance to accomodate the barrel, rather than just the bore.

how are they different threads.


Both are 14-1 LH

zfields
05-22-2011, 3:54 PM
I understand all of this....Not new to the AK platform or Saigas, baught my first AK about 15 or so years ago and have went through about 15 since then.





It is very possible....K-Var has extended krink breaks that will slip over the barrel to cover it with that fit standard AK74 24x1.5mm threads on the GB, not sure why the same thing couldn't be done with the fake can. I personally think the MagPull gun is an SBR, but it is possible to get an SBR look with out having to cut down the barrel and sacraficing accuracy at the cost of aesthetics.

The Magpul is a S-SBR, just like most there other toys : )

Cokebottle
05-22-2011, 3:59 PM
how are they different threads.

Both are 14-1 LH
Has anyone verified the size of the threads on the Saiga barrel underneath the FSB extension?
How can a threaded Saiga barrel be the same thread as the threads on a normal AK FSB extension that slips over an AK barrel?

WishinIwerFishin
05-22-2011, 4:01 PM
The Magpul is a S-SBR, just like most there other toys : )



I figured as much, why would a company build a californicated fake SBR when most states can have them.

@Cokebottle, He was probably refering to standard AK47 barrel treads, not AK74 threads.

zfields
05-22-2011, 4:09 PM
Has anyone verified the size of the threads on the Saiga barrel underneath the FSB extension?
How can a threaded Saiga barrel be the same thread as the threads on a normal AK FSB extension that slips over an AK barrel?

Well, I can say that I had a gunsmith thread my saiga barrel for a standard AK threading.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_L9wuEAD0zJM/TctmcraoW8I/AAAAAAAAAMQ/y3KV7CJpYkc/s720/DSC00419.JPG

Inquirer
05-22-2011, 6:17 PM
I like the box of Hefeweizen chilling behind that sexy AK.

cmace22
05-22-2011, 7:27 PM
Top is a Draco like the others have noted.

The bottom was built for Travis from Magpul by these guys.

http://www.nicindustries.com/assualt_rifle_gallery.php?a=view&id=648

Depending on your barrel K Var has the AK-104/105 FSB in stock. Get them while you can.

http://www.k-var.com/shop/product.php?productid=17653&cat=290&page=1

http://www.k-var.com/shop/images/D/AK-142R_i001.jpg

Any machine shop could make a muzzle extension like the one in the photo. I can do one for ya if you buy the stock.

I bought one of these for my M-92 build. Great quality.

http://www.investmentgradefirearms.com/igfproducts.htm

http://www.investmentgradefirearms.com/images/IGFproducts/krinkfake.jpg






.

zfields
05-22-2011, 7:38 PM
I like the box of Hefeweizen chilling behind that sexy AK.

Makes me sad no one knotices the 3500$ custom fanned fret bass in the backround.

http://i508.photobucket.com/albums/s326/pasda_beer/dolan%20custom/DSC00307.jpg

Cokebottle
05-22-2011, 8:50 PM
Well, I can say that I had a gunsmith thread my saiga barrel for a standard AK threading.
Is that threaded on the barrel itself, or on the extension at the front of the FSB?

What I'm referring to is that some people have reported to have found a threaded barrel under the front part of their FSB when they have disassembled their doing a conversion (intending to install a threaded FSB).

Inquirer
05-22-2011, 8:51 PM
That's actually what I noticed when you first sent me the pics of your Saiga. Reminds me of my Dad's Warwick. Beautiful.

Inquirer
05-22-2011, 8:55 PM
@Cmace: Thanks for the awesome info, bud. What I want to get is the gas block/FS that slips OVER the barrel, to accomodate a full length barrel.

But I think I'm gonna stick to stock for the time being. This is getting out of control!

zfields
05-22-2011, 9:14 PM
Is that threaded on the barrel itself, or on the extension at the front of the FSB?

What I'm referring to is that some people have reported to have found a threaded barrel under the front part of their FSB when they have disassembled their doing a conversion (intending to install a threaded FSB).

That is threaded onto the barrel. When I cut the shroud back from the FSB, there was no threading. I brought it to a local gunsmith and he cut the threads. SJgunGuy posted a great guide on how to estimate if there is a threaded muzzle or not. From what Ive read, almost all 5.45 barrels are threaded, while the 7.62 barrels are a crapshoot. It seems that the 20" barrels (like what I have) are almost 100% not threaded.

That's actually what I noticed when you first sent me the pics of your Saiga. Reminds me of my Dad's Warwick. Beautiful.

Funny, Its actually based on a warwick. Same belly curve, bubina wings with a maple accent and paulo escrito top, Wenge, maple, and cocobolo neckthrough.
http://i508.photobucket.com/albums/s326/pasda_beer/dolan%20custom/DSC00313.jpg
http://i508.photobucket.com/albums/s326/pasda_beer/dolan%20custom/DSC00310.jpg
http://i508.photobucket.com/albums/s326/pasda_beer/dolan%20custom/DSC00312.jpg
http://i508.photobucket.com/albums/s326/pasda_beer/dolan%20custom/DSC00308.jpg

Mixed design of a warwick thumb, and a single cut I built myself a few years ago.

Inquirer
05-23-2011, 12:04 AM
My god, that thing's beautiful. I'm gonna send that over to my Dad - he's a bassist from way back. Wish I could still play worth a lick; I'm actually super close by and it'd be good to jam.

zfields
05-23-2011, 7:04 AM
Well, you got till july 10th till i move to tx : P

Didnt realize you were so close, if you get your saiga going before then, or want to shoot mine, let me know. Im heading to the range this Sat.

Inquirer
05-23-2011, 5:00 PM
Well, you got till july 10th till i move to tx : P

Didnt realize you were so close, if you get your saiga going before then, or want to shoot mine, let me know. Im heading to the range this Sat.

That would be sweet, man! My schedule's up and down, but I'd be down if time permits. Depending on finances I may buy that Saiga and the Conversion Kit before you take off - maybe you could oversee and make sure I don't blow myself up! Either way, would be fun to get together for a shoot and a beer.

--Inq

zfields
05-23-2011, 5:48 PM
Well im heading to richmond this Sat, maybe once more before I move.

Should come up, we will be shooting USPSA practice till around 1pm, then rifles for a bit, then the on site bar for some 1$ brews!

Inquirer
05-23-2011, 5:52 PM
Sounds good, brother. Let's talk more via PM.

MrPlink
05-23-2011, 11:45 PM
I like the box of Hefeweizen chilling behind that sexy AK.

forget the beer and the gun, tell me about those sweet basses I see back there?

zfields
05-24-2011, 1:35 AM
the one i posted pictures of: Michael Dolan 5 string fanned fret
The Bass company 5 string semi hollow, ash body, 3 peice maple neck
Dean Euro q4 Custom, EMG 35s and BTC preamp
SX P bass, lindy fralin Classic P pickup
SX J bass, seymore duncan antiquity 2s
Home made 4 string single cut, paduk/poplar body, eucolpytus neck, camatillo FB