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sierratangofoxtrotunion
12-05-2006, 4:45 PM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=43455
This story, and the others in response, reinforce that I need rapid and potentially lethal defense. It would be fine if I was single, or single and lived with a couple other guys. In fact, in that case, you'd have to step around all the guns. Partially because I'd have more disposable income. But I have 2 toddlers, a wife, a drunk father in law, and one more kiddo who will be crawling in a few weeks. I can't very well leave a 870 on a coat hook behind the front door, or hide 45s behind the couch cushions. And I actually have far more to defend now. What the hell are my options?

NeoWeird
12-05-2006, 4:57 PM
That's a good question, and one EVERYONE should ask.

Honestly, what I would do is find a safe, even a small one, that you could mount something on the door, like a shotgun, so when you open the door it is right there. If only you know the combo or have the only keys then you should be safe from kids. Another option is those quick open handgun safes. These options will allow safe storage in your room away from everyone's knowledge (and hands).

There are also more discret methods. I've seen wall safes that get mounted into the wall. Put in a combo and viola it opens to reveal a loaded handgun. Could be nice for a hallway from the entry area to the kitchen where it would be within close range at all times. Another option is putting it up VERY high; out of sight out of mind (and hopefuly out of hands).

Obviously these both have advantages and downfalls. You have to decide where you want to live; with the most readily available firearm with increased chance of someone getting their hands on it; or more time required to get to it but the highest probability no one will get into it.

Personally, I take an alternative method. I carry while at home. When I get home a pistol goes into my belt and it stays there, or near me, at all times. It's never loaded, but it has a mag loaded in it. That way I never have to worry about bumping it, dropping it, snagging my clothes when I pull it out, etc but at the same time I can pull it out and rack the slide in a matter of seconds and be ready for anything. This might be a good option for you until your kids are old enough to understand the importance of gun safety. As always, the way to keep everyone the safest is to teach them proper gun handling and safety at the earliest possible time. Of course this doesn't address the drunken father issue, but it is a start.

I'll post more ideas as they come to me. Hope you figure out something that works for you.

rkt88edmo
12-05-2006, 5:36 PM
Wear your pistol, or lock it up.
I'd choose training and a good holster over an empty chamber for carry.
S&W 642 on sale at Turner's this week :)

Also, don't open the door for strangers.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=43455
This story, and the others in response, reinforce that I need rapid and potentially lethal defense. It would be fine if I was single, or single and lived with a couple other guys. In fact, in that case, you'd have to step around all the guns. Partially because I'd have more disposable income. But I have 2 toddlers, a wife, a drunk father in law, and one more kiddo who will be crawling in a few weeks. I can't very well leave a 870 on a coat hook behind the front door, or hide 45s behind the couch cushions. And I actually have far more to defend now. What the hell are my options?

WokMaster1
12-05-2006, 5:42 PM
Here are my $0.02

Dogs? They sure make a great first line of defense. When there are dogs around, BGs tend to move on to easier targets.

Baseball bats. A pair of rattan escrima sticks 25". They can do a lot of damage to one's bones.

I have a nice set of samurai swords mounted on the wall as a display. Easily reachable by adults.

I tried carrying a pistol when I was wearing my pajama pants. Took the pants right down. Not pretty!

Fjold
12-05-2006, 5:44 PM
I use one of the instant-open four digit combination locked steel boxes that Walmart calls a safe for a handgun. $56+tax.

Long guns are a little more difficult.

colossians323
12-05-2006, 6:12 PM
I use one of the instant-open four digit combination locked steel boxes that Walmart calls a safe for a handgun. $56+tax.

Long guns are a little more difficult.
You can get one of the newer gun safes with the S&G biometric keypad, and have access by finger print or combo, or both.

NeoWeird
12-05-2006, 6:40 PM
Wear your pistol, or lock it up.
I'd choose training and a good holster over an empty chamber for carry.
S&W 642 on sale at Turner's this week :)

Also, don't open the door for strangers.

If I am out of my house, I carry chambered, but when home I don't. With children, who could easily reach up and grab at your waste, the last thing I'd want is having a loaded chamber pointed down at their head. In your home isn't like outside where they can surprise you and you are ****ed; in your home you should either hear them at the door, or breaking in. Either way you should have a couple seconds to rack the slide. It really is your choice, but the benifits outweight the danger to carrying loaded when at home, at least for me.

ARRRR-15
12-05-2006, 6:53 PM
This might even work for you?

http://www.swps.com/progshotgunl.html

M. Sage
12-05-2006, 9:18 PM
Yeah, but then the kids'll put holes in the ceiling. :P

m1371
12-05-2006, 10:15 PM
I tried carrying a pistol when I was wearing my pajama pants. Took the pants right down. Not pretty!

That's where a good shoulder rig comes in handy. Keep it where you can get to it and then just throw it on when needed. You've got a handgun with ammo at the ready, then just clip a SF flashlight to it. Throw a bathrobe over it and you're ready to go.

five.five-six
12-06-2006, 4:57 AM
Here are my $0.02

Dogs? They sure make a great first line of defense. When there are dogs around, BGs tend to move on to easier targets.

statisticly dogs are much more dangerous to kids than guns... yes even the lovable family dog snaps, injures and kills far more often than guns. at first i kept my handgun in the sock drawer about 4'6" up he will not reach that for years but wifey was not to hip to that so I got one of those biometric safes, cabled to my bed. let him play with it for hours, he can not get in. now when he wants to get in it he grabs my thumb and trys to put it on the print reader. he has figured out that is the only way in the safe

Dr. Peter Venkman
12-06-2006, 5:24 AM
You're either going to have to settle with a small safe that can be near the bedside or a gunlock for a sidearm. I wouldn't recommend any kind of rifle or shotgun for home defense when you have loved ones nearby. Too much penetration with the rifle will have bullets flying through walls, and too much spread with the shotgun in my mind to take chances with. So either get a small safe that can be quickly opened with a key/pad/whatever, or a sidearm with a gun lock or trigger lock w/ an empty chamber. With the gun lock, you'd have to insert the mag. With the trigger lock, chamber a round. Your choice.

Aluisious
12-06-2006, 7:08 AM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=43455
This story, and the others in response, reinforce that I need rapid and potentially lethal defense. It would be fine if I was single, or single and lived with a couple other guys. In fact, in that case, you'd have to step around all the guns. Partially because I'd have more disposable income. But I have 2 toddlers, a wife, a drunk father in law, and one more kiddo who will be crawling in a few weeks. I can't very well leave a 870 on a coat hook behind the front door, or hide 45s behind the couch cushions. And I actually have far more to defend now. What the hell are my options?
Land mines?

Divorce?

I don't know, I hope I don't have to figure out your situation soon :D

Aluisious
12-06-2006, 7:11 AM
Here are my $0.02

Dogs? They sure make a great first line of defense. When there are dogs around, BGs tend to move on to easier targets.

Baseball bats. A pair of rattan escrima sticks 25". They can do a lot of damage to one's bones.

I have a nice set of samurai swords mounted on the wall as a display. Easily reachable by adults.

I tried carrying a pistol when I was wearing my pajama pants. Took the pants right down. Not pretty!
Shoulder rig?

Requires an understanding wife, though, and last I heard that model is still in beta testing.

Aluisious
12-06-2006, 7:14 AM
You're either going to have to settle with a small safe that can be near the bedside or a gunlock for a sidearm. I wouldn't recommend any kind of rifle or shotgun for home defense when you have loved ones nearby. Too much penetration with the rifle will have bullets flying through walls, and too much spread with the shotgun in my mind to take chances with. So either get a small safe that can be quickly opened with a key/pad/whatever, or a sidearm with a gun lock or trigger lock w/ an empty chamber. With the gun lock, you'd have to insert the mag. With the trigger lock, chamber a round. Your choice.
I've read that the lighter 5.56mm FMJ rounds disintegrate quickly after hitting soft walls etc. Better than 9mm for over penetration issues.

Having a handy AR is a trouble though. Best I can think of is having a room everyone in the house can retreat to from anywhere, and putting the guns in there in a safe. Nice sturdy door, too.

luvtolean
12-06-2006, 7:26 AM
You're either going to have to settle with a small safe that can be near the bedside or a gunlock for a sidearm.

Though some locks allow the gun to still be fired, I agree on the small quick action safe.

A CA approved, fast action safe, with a quality handgun in condition 1 inside is my vote.

I wouldn't recommend any kind of rifle or shotgun for home defense when you have loved ones nearby. Too much penetration with the rifle will have bullets flying through walls,

Actually, quite a bit of testing has shown non-steel core .223 bullets penetrate less wall board than a 9mm.

and too much spread with the shotgun in my mind to take chances with.

Especially if you're using buck, at inside-the-house ranges, there isn't much spread at all.

Problem with a shotgun, is that it is more difficult to secure, especially loaded and ready to go.

WokMaster1
12-06-2006, 7:42 AM
statisticly dogs are much more dangerous to kids than guns... yes even the lovable family dog snaps, injures and kills far more often than guns. at first i kept my handgun in the sock drawer about 4'6" up he will not reach that for years but wifey was not to hip to that so I got one of those biometric safes, cabled to my bed. let him play with it for hours, he can not get in. now when he wants to get in it he grabs my thumb and trys to put it on the print reader. he has figured out that is the only way in the safe


Owning dogs are pretty much the same as owning guns. Train the dogs & get some training, too. I do agree with the snaps, injuries & even deaths. But looking into it a bit further, the breed of these dogs tend to lean more toward pits, rotts, an occasional akita or two. These are all fighting breeds & were not trained to properly co-live with kids. I'm not saying that all these dogs are bad but more along the line that we as dog owners have a responsibility to make sure that we can control our dogs. However, I have this to say to dog owners who don't pick up after their pets. A BIG *** F U! Some one just left a big pile in my driveway.

luvtolean
12-06-2006, 7:50 AM
I totally disagree.

Guns do not randomly "go off". Dogs do.

Dogs, trusted and behaving well around children their whole lives can and do decide one day to just bite.

They have a mind of their own, no matter how well bred, well trained, and well trained the owner.

Labs are far more likely to bite/injure children than other dogs, like Pits, Akitas and Shepherds. This is because they bite for different reasons.

When the fighting/defense type dog does decide to bite, it is normally not because they are afraid, it's because they are predatory. They bite, and do not let go. Thankfully, they rarely bite, but they kill more than other breeds for this reason.

Normally when a lab, cocker spaniel (a particularly bad breed for biting) and others bite, it's out of fear (or simple annoyance); they bite, let go and run.

Pokey
12-06-2006, 8:10 AM
That's a good question, and one EVERYONE should ask.

Honestly, what I would do is find a safe, even a small one, that you could mount something on the door, like a shotgun, so when you open the door it is right there. If only you know the combo or have the only keys then you should be safe from kids. Another option is those quick open handgun safes. These options will allow safe storage in your room away from everyone's knowledge (and hands).

There are also more discret methods. I've seen wall safes that get mounted into the wall. Put in a combo and viola it opens to reveal a loaded handgun. Could be nice for a hallway from the entry area to the kitchen where it would be within close range at all times. Another option is putting it up VERY high; out of sight out of mind (and hopefuly out of hands).

Obviously these both have advantages and downfalls. You have to decide where you want to live; with the most readily available firearm with increased chance of someone getting their hands on it; or more time required to get to it but the highest probability no one will get into it.

Personally, I take an alternative method. I carry while at home. When I get home a pistol goes into my belt and it stays there, or near me, at all times. It's never loaded, but it has a mag loaded in it. That way I never have to worry about bumping it, dropping it, snagging my clothes when I pull it out, etc but at the same time I can pull it out and rack the slide in a matter of seconds and be ready for anything. This might be a good option for you until your kids are old enough to understand the importance of gun safety. As always, the way to keep everyone the safest is to teach them proper gun handling and safety at the earliest possible time. Of course this doesn't address the drunken father issue, but it is a start.

I'll post more ideas as they come to me. Hope you figure out something that works for you.


Neo pretty much summed it up (well said).
I prefer, as stated by anonther, a good holster and a loaded chamber but that is just personal.
I would stay VERY FAR AWAY from tigger locks (they don't prevent the weapon from cycling and now you have a loaded chamber and something through the trigger guard!).

rkt88edmo
12-06-2006, 8:27 AM
You're either going to have to settle with a small safe that can be near the bedside or a gunlock for a sidearm.

Yes

I wouldn't recommend any kind of rifle or shotgun for home defense when you have loved ones nearby. Too much penetration with the rifle will have bullets flying through walls, and too much spread with the shotgun in my mind to take chances with.

Anything that is going to penetrate/stop an aggressor is going to go through walls. Shotgun spread at in-house distances is not that great.

Res
12-06-2006, 9:02 AM
I keep my shotgun hung over my bedroom door. i can access it quickly, and its high enough where my daughter will not be able to reach it. I think that would be a safe place for you until/unless your children are at the age where they can figure out to drag a chair or something else to stand on to be able to reach it.

or you can opt for one of these.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v652/ResDogDM/hideclose.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v652/ResDogDM/hideopen.jpg

I have one for my wife to keep her .38 in. And i think i saw somewhere, that they also make longer length frames for rifles and shotguns.
.

Dr. Peter Venkman
12-06-2006, 11:35 AM
Anything that is going to penetrate/stop an aggressor is going to go through walls.

That is true, but over-penetration would be far greater an issue with 30-06 or 7.62x39 than with .45 ACP.

Shotgun spread at in-house distances is not that great.

I know it's not, but why leave it up to chance?

sierratangofoxtrotunion
12-06-2006, 5:07 PM
I tried carrying a pistol when I was wearing my pajama pants. Took the pants right down. Not pretty!
I have a headache, and you made me laugh!

I see two basic classes of scenarios: one, I'm in bed and I hear noises at the door. This one's not hard, I grab whatever I've put near the bed, whether it's on a small safe on the nightstand, or whatever. Currently, we have a baby gate at the bedroom door to keep the toddlers out. Keeps them from playing "dress-up" with mom's jewelry, and keeps them away from the guns. Of course, this will only work for so long. The oldest is 3, and she's just about big enough to climb over. If she does, she's not likely to gravitate towards my guns, find a mag, insert, chamber, take off safe, pull trigger, etc. Still, of course the idea is to prevent access in the first place. I think some sort of biometric safe with a pistol might be a good choice for immediate access. Do any of these have an option for a 2nd user, so the wife could also access it?

Next scenario is where I'm anywhere BUT the bedroom. This one isn't so easy. I don't have the quantity of guns to have one hidden in every room of the house, and I don't have the budget to make that happen. I recall one poster on this board saying something about how he had a shotgun on a sling hanging on a coat rack behind the door, with a coat over it. Definitely immediate access for greeting somebody at the door. However, again, I don't want to do that with the drunk father-in-law and the toddlers. Aside from packing heat everywhere I go in the house, including coming down the stairs Saturday morning in pajama pants for pancakes, it seems tricky to come up with an effective strategy.

mur
12-06-2006, 6:16 PM
Labs are far more likely to bite/injure children than other dogs, like Pits, Akitas and Shepherds. This is because they bite for different reasons.


I gotta disagree with you on this.
Statistics probably show that their are more Lab bites than any other Breed, However Labs are the most common Breed in America, Thus more bites.

I do agree different breeds do bite for different reasons, but I do not think any breed bites more than another.

Pits, Rotts, etc.... do get a bad rap though. They are powerful dogs and usually will cause more serious injuries, which result in more reports.


As for protection, at night all my Doors are locked, Dogs (Yellow Lab and Rottie) in the Back yard, sometimes inside(doggie door) and my 1911 Mil-spec in the night stand. I unlock it at night and lock it when I awake.
In the event SHTF during the day and I couldn’t get to my bedroom, I guess I'd have to improvise. If in Kitchen, grab knives, In garage, grab chain saw, In Computer room, Grab computer and throw.......In all instances, then make way back to bedroom.
If all that fails, I guess it’s my time…….

dwtt
12-07-2006, 7:20 PM
I keep loaded pistols in a small push button safe on my cabinet near the bed. I just have to push several buttons and the door opens. It's powered by a small transformer and has a battery back up.
However, the most important thing I did to make sure none of my guns will be involved in an accident with my little daughter was to teach my daughter not to touch a gun unless I'm around. Whenever I open the gun cabinet, she wants to see and hold her M1 Garand, and I let her, but I won't let her touch any of the pistols unless she asks for permission from me. There were some times when I was cleaning my rifle and pistol after returning from the range and she came by to help, but she kept her distance from the disassembled guns and only touched them after I told her it was OK. I still make sure all my guns are locked up, and one is readily available, but knowing my daughter won't treat a real gun like a toy is reassuring.

Pokey
12-08-2006, 5:09 AM
I keep loaded pistols in a small push button safe on my cabinet near the bed. I just have to push several buttons and the door opens. It's powered by a small transformer and has a battery back up.
However, the most important thing I did to make sure none of my guns will be involved in an accident with my little daughter was to teach my daughter not to touch a gun unless I'm around. Whenever I open the gun cabinet, she wants to see and hold her M1 Garand, and I let her, but I won't let her touch any of the pistols unless she asks for permission from me. There were some times when I was cleaning my rifle and pistol after returning from the range and she came by to help, but she kept her distance from the disassembled guns and only touched them after I told her it was OK. I still make sure all my guns are locked up, and one is readily available, but knowing my daughter won't treat a real gun like a toy is reassuring.
My children are the same way, they can see them just about anytime they want, IF they just ask, then we do so together. I don't worry about my kids, its other peoples kids at my house that I worry about.

Aluisious
12-08-2006, 5:53 AM
If you have other kids in your house you must lock up your guns. If a kid shoots itself with your gun, you are in major trouble.

dragonbait1a
12-09-2006, 2:22 AM
The best answers is options.

Carry options, lock options (like a safe or quick action safe), alternitive options, early warning options. More options you have, the less likely the "shoot 'em" option will come to pass

Stout Doors and windows with some way to detect intruders are key. Even those stupid "Personal Alarms" can wake you and give you maybe seconds to arm up and deal with trouble. Not for homes with pets that play with dangely things.

Blunt objects need to be where you can access them in smooth striking movements. Remember that they may grab one if the chance comes up. OTOH everyone I know keeps a baseball bat by the bedroom door or front door. My wife's collection of blunt and (hidden) sharp objects has scared people when they realize that you can stick out an arm anywhere in our small apt and grab *something* suitable to immeadately defend yourself. As the kids are climbers now, the sharps are moving to more obscure locations.

On how to keep the gun ready....

I prefer carry. I use a Fanny Pack (so as not to scare the neighbors/visiting family) but have seriously considered a shoulder holster for comfort. (nothing like 3 pounds of foot rest for the little one to use to get to your face). Quality shoulder holsters are expensive tho.

Retention is a non-issue with the F.Pack, the zipper stays shut, the triggerguard is covered inside the bag. Yes, its slow to draw but I have a stout door that'll withstand at least 5 seconds of bashing (unless it's the neighborhood SWAT team, and then I'm too screwed to worry about it).

The only good thing about small apts is that you can pretty much see the whole place from the whole place. So If there is someone at the door, I know pretty quick.

When I'm away the whole pack (which also discretely carries some ammo, a knife, flashlight and other "Bat-gear") goes into the safe with the other guns. This is where the gun goes when I go to bed too.

Quick access gun locks for the shotgun and pistol are high on the purchase list, Still looking for a way to camoflauge the shotgun wall lock and still give the wife (5'4") access.

This came to a head as a car RIGHT IN FRONT of our apt had a window smashed last night. We re-discussed our preparedness plans and have a shopping trip for tommorow (today)

YMMV.

RGB

five.five-six
12-09-2006, 2:49 AM
If you have other kids in your house you must lock up your guns. If a kid shoots themselves with your gun, you are in major trouble.

KIDS ARE NOT "IT'S", they are people

if my kid were to get hurt due to somthing I did I do not know how I could go on.. take everything I own and throw me in the pen for life, I do not see how I would care

sierratangofoxtrotunion
12-09-2006, 10:26 AM
if my kid were to get hurt due to somthing I did I do not know how I could go on.. take everything I own and throw me in the pen for life, I do not see how I would care
I know what you mean.