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JUm3
05-18-2011, 3:53 PM
Quick rant and warning.

There is no better way to put it. In a box of twenty, I've had 3 Failure to feeds. It's the Wolf Military classic 556 ammo. I didn't buy these, they just came with my rifle as a package and they are absolutely terrible. I had a second box and I didn't even bother to try that out.

After a cycle, the bolt would wedge the bullet into one of the chamber keys, completely unaligned with the center of the champer. Did this 3 times.

It would be more effective throwing these down range.

Couple controls: Noveske 14.5 stainless N4. Always cleaned. Had never had a failure with hundreds of federal 5.56.

MrPlink
05-18-2011, 4:07 PM
no problems through my AK or my LMT.

:::shrug::::

this is an age old topic here though and I feel dumb for responding.

Droppin Deuces
05-18-2011, 4:09 PM
I hear this stuff is especially bad in Bushmaster uppers =X

GM4spd
05-18-2011, 4:11 PM
You have the wrong rifle.AR/DI I assume? For Wolf you really need an
AK type piston job to be reliable/Galil/SIG556/etc Pete

rubber duckie
05-18-2011, 4:13 PM
me and a buddy ran through 500 rounds of wolf 5.56 through our ARs with adams arms piston. i hated cleaning up and smelling the stuff but i didnt have a single issue.

Droppin Deuces
05-18-2011, 4:18 PM
me and a buddy ran through 500 rounds of wolf 5.56 through our ARs with adams arms piston. i hated cleaning up and smelling the stuff but i didnt have a single issue.

Damn right it didn't!:cool:

Paper Boy
05-18-2011, 4:19 PM
I like wolf cheap but dirty, it does the job in all my ar's and ar pistol

vintagearms
05-18-2011, 4:19 PM
Quick rant and warning.

There is no better way to put it. In a box of twenty, I've had 3 Failure to feeds. It's the Wolf Military classic 556 ammo. I didn't buy these, they just came with my rifle as a package and they are absolutely terrible. I had a second box and I didn't even bother to try that out.

After a cycle, the bolt would wedge the bullet into one of the chamber keys, completely unaligned with the center of the champer. Did this 3 times.

It would be more effective throwing these down range.

Couple controls: Noveske 14.5 stainless N4. Always cleaned. Had never had a failure with hundreds of federal 5.56.

The Wolf classic ammo is underpowered. The bolt had enough power to cycle the action but not enough to chamber another round. It has to do with the opening of your gas port. Instead of messing with it to get reliable feeding with that ammo, just use regular velocity ammo. Problem solved. It has NOTHING to do with DI vs piston.
I have a BCM 14.5" with rifle buffer system and it feeds fine except for the second to last and last round and sometimes doesnt lock the bolt back.
It does run fine with a carbine buffer system and/or regular velocity ammo.
Hope this helps.

5thgen4runner
05-18-2011, 4:20 PM
my adams eats them!

missiontrails
05-18-2011, 4:22 PM
Quick rant and warning.

There is no better way to put it. In a box of twenty, I've had 3 Failure to feeds. It's the Wolf Military classic 556 ammo. I didn't buy these, they just came with my rifle as a package and they are absolutely terrible. I had a second box and I didn't even bother to try that out.

After a cycle, the bolt would wedge the bullet into one of the chamber keys, completely unaligned with the center of the champer. Did this 3 times.

It would be more effective throwing these down range.

Couple controls: Noveske 14.5 stainless N4. Always cleaned. Had never had a failure with hundreds of federal 5.56.
Agree! Now, many cheapos on here are a)going to argue that and b)Tell you that your rifle is a POS. We have a Colt 6940 in the family, and it choked on one out of every three Herters (Cabella's brand of Russian)..... There was silence when I brougt up that point in one of my past threads........ Next will be all the Delton, Stag, and BCM owners that will say their rifles love it....... I refuse to run that dirty crap even if my rifles cycle it.

Droppin Deuces
05-18-2011, 4:25 PM
So now you're a cheapskate if your gun can run Russian ammo??? Goodness....

Fadedline
05-18-2011, 4:26 PM
Have yet to try it in my AR. But it's all my AK's and SKS's eat.

missiontrails
05-18-2011, 4:27 PM
I hear this stuff is especially bad in Bushmaster uppers =X

And Colt 6940's...... because they are gased for the higher presure 5.56 round..... JUST LIKE THE BUSHMASTER. The Colt and the Bushmaster gas ports are drilled for specific pressures, and OVERGASED carbines recoil more, making them less accurate for follow up hits, or control when FA. So, if your carbine "eats" weak .223 Russian, it is probably over gased.

Droppin Deuces
05-18-2011, 4:35 PM
And Colt 6940's...... because they are gased for the higher presure 5.56 round..... JUST LIKE THE BUSHMASTER. The Colt and the Bushmaster gas ports are drilled for specific pressures, and OVERGASED carbines recoil more, making them less accurate for follow up hits, or control when FA. So, if your carbine "eats" weak .223 Russian, it is probably over gased.

Weird, mine is perfectly manageable, even when I load them hotter than a 5.56.

And I don't think rounds getting stuck in your chamber have anything to do with how your gun is gased. Just sayin.

Spetsnazos
05-18-2011, 4:39 PM
Its your rifle not the ammo.

missiontrails
05-18-2011, 4:40 PM
Weird, mine is perfectly manageable, even when I load them hotter than a 5.56.

And I don't think rounds getting stuck in your chamber have anything to do with how your gun is gased. Just sayin.

Ya, they did not get stuck in the chamber... the 6940 just would not cycle.... with factory spring and carbine buffer. And it would NEVER lock back after the last shot. Drop 62gr 5.56 in it..... and it's a BLASTER.

missiontrails
05-18-2011, 4:41 PM
Its your rifle not the ammo.

Yep, the N4 is a POS.......zzzz please... gimme a break.

missiontrails
05-18-2011, 4:43 PM
Wolf should change it's name to HOOVER..... because it does totally suck.

Spetsnazos
05-18-2011, 4:44 PM
Yep, the N4 is a POS.......zzzz please... gimme a break.

So let me get this straight. Other rifles are able to cycle wolf successfully without a single issue. This one cant.

Sorry but the verdict is in. Its the gun :)

shadow65
05-18-2011, 4:50 PM
I will not own a rifle that will not cycle Wolf. Doesn't matter if it's Colt, Noveske, or a DPMS. A combat rifle that is so ammo sensitive it has to be feed a certain diet is an accident waiting to happen for me.
I like to be prepared for any scenario. There may be a time when all I could get my hands on is steel case.
But then I build most of my own rifles so I can adjust them to run what ever I want them to run.
Dave

rubber duckie
05-18-2011, 4:54 PM
im sorry but if SHTF and all you can get is wolf.. and your gun doesn't perform..what are you going to do?

stix213
05-18-2011, 4:57 PM
Wolf ammo is low powered. You're rifle likely has problems with all low powered ammo.

It doesn't mean there is anything "wrong" with your rifle, any more than there is anything wrong with my vette that says it needs premium gas. It also doesn't mean there is anything wrong with wolf ammo, any more than there is anything wrong with regular gas.

glock_this
05-18-2011, 4:58 PM
as a rule of thumb, I do not buy, use, own, shoot any Wolf ammo - ever. My local indoor range does not even allow it. And, as well, no steel case for me.. like Bear.

missiontrails
05-18-2011, 5:00 PM
So let me get this straight. Other rifles are able to cycle wolf successfully without a single issue. This one cant.

Sorry but the verdict is in. Its the gun :)

lmao.. so the Colt in my family is a POS, and the OP's N4 is a POS, and the other Bushmaster in my family is a POS....... Let me explain something.... there is this little thing called a gas port... all of our rifles have it. Now, a gas port can be slightly larger, or slightly smaller..... I wanna say most are .064"... Now, you can over-gas a rifle, and weaker .223 will cycle, because even though it's a lower pressure load, MORE gas is allowed into the gas tube to push the BCG. And over gased rifle will be "wilder" when using real 5.56 ammo.. A rifle that is gased to spec, or under, will have trouble cycling weaker .223 ammo, but will handle 5.56 with less recoil, which is better last I checked. So, our Colt 6940, Bushmaster, and the OP's N4 are Not over gased. My last factory CMMG Carbine WAS over gased, it would eat anything... and I ran a Colt 9mm 5.2oz buffer in it to help offset the recoil.

Droppin Deuces
05-18-2011, 5:00 PM
im sorry but if SHTF and all you can get is wolf.. and your gun doesn't perform..what are you going to do?

Tell the enemy to count their lucky stars, because if they had "high performace guns" they'd be screwed, too!

$P-Ritch$
05-18-2011, 5:02 PM
Yep, the N4 is a POS.......zzzz please... gimme a break.

I hate these threads and really don't think that I should contribute.....BUT

My Noveske N4 (lowpro recce to be exact) eats up Tula at all my 3 gun matches. It's been over six hundred rounds now and there hasn't been a failure of any kind. This is with all the running and controlled pairs, but never a hiccup. So, I am content with my $180/1000 ammo.

NORCAL#1
05-18-2011, 5:03 PM
Just my 2 cents, when ever you use steel case ammo you should be generous with the oil, lube that sh-t up. I've had no issues with wolf.

bline01
05-18-2011, 5:03 PM
i feed my noveske n4 pmc 55gr.
not as cheap as wolf but not that expensive either.

$P-Ritch$
05-18-2011, 5:04 PM
Wolf ammo is low powered. You're rifle likely has problems with all low powered ammo.

It doesn't mean there is anything "wrong" with your rifle, any more than there is anything wrong with my vette that says it needs premium gas. It also doesn't mean there is anything wrong with wolf ammo, any more than there is anything wrong with regular gas.

I really like that analogy. Now if only we could all get along and shoot the ammo that makes us content and not worry about what everyone else likes and uses.

r6raff
05-18-2011, 5:04 PM
Bummer dude, WolF, Tula and Bear all run fine in my BCM. I don't run it often because it just so damn dirty plus I buy my xm193 in bulk so I barely pay more for the brass cased than I would for the steel stuff. But atleast I know I can run it if I have to.

pointedstick
05-18-2011, 5:06 PM
I find that Silver bear is infinitely better for cheap plinking .223 ammo. It's barely more expensive than the Wolf but will run problem-free through anything.

glock_this
05-18-2011, 5:07 PM
My understanding is that the steel case Wolf junk has a lacquer coating that really dirties the gun quick and puts off a more than normal awful smell discharge. As well, I have always understood that since it is steel case, it does not expand and contract when the round is fired... it just expands and so has a greater "chance" of failing to eject or jam in the chamber.

I just have always understood it to, all in all, be a junk choice so I have - and will always - just steer clear.

missiontrails
05-18-2011, 5:07 PM
im sorry but if SHTF and all you can get is wolf.. and your gun doesn't perform..what are you going to do?

What country do you live in? It will be your own fault if you don't have stock, and have to rely on your cheapo neighbors spam can of Russian. I say what country, because something tells me that I would run into "something" domestic, whether it be .223 or 5.56.

Droppin Deuces
05-18-2011, 5:10 PM
OMG it's a COLT! Everybody bow down before your guns crumble in your hands in its presence.

Quick, throw some Wolf at it so it chokes and dies.

missiontrails
05-18-2011, 5:10 PM
Bummer dude, WolF, Tula and Bear all run fine in my BCM. I don't run it often because it just so damn dirty plus I buy my xm193 in bulk so I barely pay more for the brass cased than I would for the steel stuff. But atleast I know I can run it if I have to.

At least Silverbear is Zinc coated, not polymer or lacquer.... that is a step in the right direction.

missiontrails
05-18-2011, 5:12 PM
OMG it's a COLT! Everybody bow down before your guns crumble in your hands in its presence.

Quick, throw some Wolf at it so it chokes and dies.

I don't personally own Colt's... my brother does.. I bring up the true story of the Colt just to see who says "it's a POS.".. Colt fan boys.... you know how they are. I'm not one of them.

missiontrails
05-18-2011, 5:13 PM
Anyone who stockpiles Wolf for SHTF is an idiot anyway.

Droppin Deuces
05-18-2011, 5:15 PM
Anyone who stockpiles Wolf for SHTF is an idiot anyway.



I don't know... Seems to me that one should stockpile anything they can get their hands on. If I'm running dry and dead dudes are tearing down my plywood, I'm guessing I'm going to be perfectly happy to have a few thousand rounds of cheap ammo lying around.

EDIT: UNLESS I HAVE A COLT OR BUSHMASTER:D

folcker
05-18-2011, 5:16 PM
COOL!!!! MORE WOLF FOR US!!!!!

glock_this
05-18-2011, 5:19 PM
COOL!!!! MORE WOLF FOR US!!!!!

have at it.. it's all yours :cool2: I wont shed any tears

I'll stick to buying brass cased, lacquer free, LC reloads off CL for even less than Wolf :)

missiontrails
05-18-2011, 5:19 PM
I don't know... Seems to me that one should stockpile anything they can get their hands on. If I'm running dry and dead dudes are tearing down my plywood, I'm guessing I'm going to be perfectly happy to have a few thousand rounds of cheap ammo lying around.

What CAN'T you get your hands on right now? I have been buying good ammo almost weekly.... not because I need it, but because it's 5.99 per box if you search..... If my house burns down, it's gonna look like a fireworks factory... lol

glock_this
05-18-2011, 5:23 PM
What CAN'T you get your hands on right now? I have been buying good ammo almost weekly.... not because I need it, but because it's 5.99 per box if you search..... If my house burns down, it's gonna look like a fireworks factory... lol

agreed..... in the last 7 days alone I have bought +1200 rounds of nice clean brass cased .223 reloads off the craigslist from people dumping it. not to mention 1000rnds of 9mm. Good ammo is out there, just gotta look for it and not settle for Wolf :eek:

Droppin Deuces
05-18-2011, 5:25 PM
What CAN'T you get your hands on right now? I have been buying good ammo almost weekly.... not because I need it, but because it's 5.99 per box if you search..... If my house burns down, it's gonna look like a fireworks factory... lol

I make my own, but I only make it when I have a range trip planned, so I might have 100 rounds at most laying around at a time. I do have a few hundred rounds of Tula left, though, if you want it.

$.30 everytime I pull the trigger? That doesn't sound like a very good deal...

missiontrails
05-18-2011, 5:29 PM
I make my own, but I only make it when I have a range trip planned, so I might have 100 rounds at most laying around at a time. I do have a few hundred rounds of Tula left, though, if you want it.

$.30 everytime I pull the trigger? That doesn't sound like a very good deal...
.30... i'm glad to pay it. To shoot twice per month.... so I pay $120/month to shoot.. I can live with that.

missiontrails
05-18-2011, 5:32 PM
All I Know is there are plenty of rifles out there that dont have a bit of problems with wolf ammo. Calling anyone who stock piles or uses it an Idiot is a lil much dont you think. I mean if your weapon of choice is gonna be finicky about your ammo, would you really depend on that weapon?? If so.....
I will say it again, if you stockpile Wolf ammo for SHTF when there is PLENTY of XM855 or similar available to stockpile............You're an idiot, or CHEAP and an idiot. Stockpiling Wolf for range sessions is a whole different matter, shoot what you like.

Droppin Deuces
05-18-2011, 5:32 PM
.30... i'm glad to pay it. To shoot twice per month.... so I pay $120/month to shoot.. I can live with that.

Maybe I need to cut back a little...

rubber duckie
05-18-2011, 5:33 PM
What country do you live in? It will be your own fault if you don't have stock, and have to rely on your cheapo neighbors spam can of Russian. I say what country, because something tells me that I would run into "something" domestic, whether it be .223 or 5.56.

what i was trying to say is, whats the point of having a gun that only works with certain ammo? i stock federals myself, since its still cheap and not as bad as wolf, but if money was tight and i needed lots of ammo the russian stuff would be better then nothing. what would you do when you ran out of ammo, after your stock has been depleted, and all you have is the russian "crap" your neighbor has? i bet you would be pissed since your awesome gun can't shoot it.

8200rpm
05-18-2011, 5:35 PM
Couple controls: Noveske 14.5 stainless N4.

There is no such thing as a "stainless N4".

If you have a 14.5" stainless Noveske, you have a match grade Afghan barrel. It has a match grade chamber that's tighter than 5.56mm chamber. You should be kicked in the balls for shooting cheap ***** ammo through a SS precision barrel.

If you have a 14.5" N4, it's not stainless. Run brass ammo. If it works, stay with brass ammo.

missiontrails
05-18-2011, 5:37 PM
what i was trying to say is, whats the point of having a gun that only works with certain ammo? i stock federals myself, since its still cheap and not as bad as wolf, but if money was tight and i needed lots of ammo the russian stuff would be better then nothing. what would you do when you ran out of ammo, after your stock has been depleted, and all you have is the russian "crap" your neighbor has? i bet you would be pissed since your awesome gun can't shoot it.

Hell, then what's the point of the Military using what they use? How reliable do you think their stuff would be running on that stuff? I still can't believe we are having a discussion about cheap imported ammo and how all good domestic guns should be judged by whether or not they can run reliably on it....... just a stupid discussion, AGAIN.

It boils down mainly to how your rifle is gased.

Droppin Deuces
05-18-2011, 5:53 PM
See, I couldn't just assume that military grade 5.56 is going to be sprouting out of the ground like radishes if the worst happened. That's why I wouldn't turn down a bunch of Russian ammo if I was stockpiling, and I'm glad my gun will shoot it. Fortunately I don't think in SHTF terms, but if it does ever come down to it, I have what amounts to about 15,000 rounds just waiting to be made.....as long as I don't forget to attach my brass catcher.

vintagearms
05-18-2011, 6:06 PM
Im curious about all the people who wont shoot Wolf, what their opinions are about Hornady TAP training ammo which has a steel casing similar to Wolf....

rattlesnake_nm
05-18-2011, 6:09 PM
Im curious about all the people who wont shoot Wolf, what their opinions are about Hornady TAP training ammo which has a steel casing similar to Wolf....

I've shot a ton of urban T.A.P., and it runs fine in my 14.5 bcm carbine, along with wolf, and a steady diet of brown bear 62gn hollowpoints. I would never buy reloads off of craigslist. I took some reloads in a barter deal years ago, and blew a primer that ended up in my trigger group. It caused major failures a couple months later. When I pulled the trigger group out there was part of the primer under it.

pdugan6
05-18-2011, 6:12 PM
And this is coming as a surprise???

missiontrails
05-18-2011, 6:13 PM
Im curious about all the people who wont shoot Wolf, what their opinions are about Hornady TAP training ammo which has a steel casing similar to Wolf....
Because the Hornady uses real powder that does not gum up your weapon. What does Hornady coat their steel cases?

JDPhx501
05-18-2011, 6:13 PM
Saw this the other day on Youtube.

Not sure if its true, but I recognize that as a SPX and so my friends will not be allowed to shoot Wolf 12g through my own SPX.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ_53JwhQPo

vintagearms
05-18-2011, 6:14 PM
My understanding is that the steel case Wolf junk has a lacquer coating that really dirties the gun quick and puts off a more than normal awful smell discharge. As well, I have always understood that since it is steel case, it does not expand and contract when the round is fired... it just expands and so has a greater "chance" of failing to eject or jam in the chamber.

I just have always understood it to, all in all, be a junk choice so I have - and will always - just steer clear.

Wolf does NOT have a laquer coating...period. It did back in the 80's-90's but since 2005 or so it was dropped.

Wolf does not have a greater chance of failing because of the steel case...period. The problem arises when people shoot Wolf, dont clean the chamber then try to shoot brass cased ammo. The brass collects the carbon on the case and they will sometimes stick. Proper cleaning is the issue, not the ammo.

Just want to correct you so you dont continue to spread false info.

missiontrails
05-18-2011, 6:19 PM
Wolf does NOT have a laquer coating...period. It did back in the 80's-90's but since 2005 or so it was dropped.

Wolf does not have a greater chance of failing because of the steel case...period. The problem arises when people shoot Wolf, dont clean the chamber then try to shoot brass cased ammo. The brass collects the carbon on the case and they will sometimes stick. Proper cleaning is the issue, not the ammo.

Just want to correct you so you dont continue to spread false info.

Correct. Wolf is polymer coated...... unless you get Wolf brass... but Wold brass costs MORE than Federal. Brownbear IS laquered, Silverbear is Zinc coated.

ZX-10R
05-18-2011, 6:20 PM
For AK it is awesome but for an AR maybe. I have shot WOLF through my AR once or twice. Not a fan. Brass only for me. AK wise it eats it like nothing.

folcker
05-18-2011, 6:20 PM
Call me an idiot all you want ... you cant deny that depending on a finicky weapon is an idiot thing to do. I will say it again, if you stockpile Wolf ammo for SHTF when there is PLENTY of XM855 or similar available to stockpile............You're an idiot, or CHEAP and an idiot. Stockpiling Wolf for range sessions is a whole different matter, shoot what you like.

vintagearms
05-18-2011, 6:20 PM
Because the Hornady uses real powder that does not gum up your weapon. What does Hornady coat their steel cases?

What gums it up is carbon blowback, because the case does not expand like brass. Hornady uses primed steel cases from Wolf. (This is from several reputable sources) hornady then uses their powder and bullets.

missiontrails
05-18-2011, 6:22 PM
What gums it up is carbon blowback, because the case does not expand like brass. Hornady uses primed steel cases from Wolf. (This is from several reputable sources) hornady then uses their powder and bullets.
It's not Ball ammo.

vintagearms
05-18-2011, 6:23 PM
It's not Ball ammo.

I meant Hornady uses Hornady's powder and bullets. ;) But uses steel cases from Wolf.

missiontrails
05-18-2011, 6:24 PM
Call me an idiot all you want ... you cant deny that depending on a finicky weapon is an idiot thing to do.

First, I did not call you an idiot directly. Second, relying on some cut rate garbage import ammo IS EVEN MORE STUPID. Anyone care to refute that? Since ALL ammo is available for stocking at this time for GOOD prices? Getting cheap with ammo at the range is one thing, protecting your life with said ammo is a whole other thing. Right now we all have choices for stockpile: Pay .30 per round for real ammo, or .20 for import underpowered dirty crap.

emtnsocali
05-18-2011, 6:27 PM
Its your rifle not the ammo.

+1 havent had an issue with any of the 3 builds i have done......daniel defense 16" mid, spikes 16" carbine and dEZ arms 20" rifle.

hellraiser
05-18-2011, 6:27 PM
I always wanted a colt until I read this thread. I had no idea they were finicky.

I have a no name budget build and it will chew through most anything. I just make sure I do a good cleaning before I run brass again.

missiontrails
05-18-2011, 6:29 PM
I always wanted a colt until I read this thread. I had no idea they were finicky.
They are not finicky, they are gased per spec for what is stamped on the barrel: 5.56. Can you think of one other weapon that will accept 2 different calibers, other than .357/.38 special and AR's with .223 and 5.56? As far as i'm concerned, im stock piling what is stamped on my barrel.

rattlesnake_nm
05-18-2011, 6:29 PM
First, I did not call you an idiot directly. Second, relying on some cut rate garbage import ammo IS EVEN MORE STUPID. Anyone care to refute that? Since ALL ammo is available for stocking at this time for GOOD prices? Getting cheap with ammo at the range is one thing, protecting your life with said ammo is a whole other thing. Right now we all have choices for stockpile: Pay .30 per round for real ammo, or .20 for import underpowered dirty crap.


Good prices? Wtf are You talking about? Ammo is outrageous.

missiontrails
05-18-2011, 6:31 PM
I always wanted a colt until I read this thread. I had no idea they were finicky.

I have a no name budget build and it will chew through most anything. I just make sure I do a good cleaning before I run brass again.

Ya, get the Del-Ton because it's less finicky:43:

folcker
05-18-2011, 6:33 PM
They are not finicky, they are gased per spec for what is stamped on the barrel: 5.56. Can you think of one other weapon that will accept 2 different calibers, other than .357/.38 special and AR's with .223 and 5.56? As far as i'm concerned, im stock piling what is stamped on my barrel.

OK...Pickey

missiontrails
05-18-2011, 6:33 PM
Good prices? Wtf are You talking about? Ammo is outrageous.

Do you shop at Palmetto Armory? How abour Glen's Army Navy? $299/1000 is the going rate for Federal 5.56 55gr if you shop. Combine that with free shipping from some... and you are good.

hellraiser
05-18-2011, 6:34 PM
Ya, get the Del-Ton because it's less finicky:43:



Ha ha ha kinda sucks when you think about it.

Oh well I still would love to own one but that ain't gonna happen.

rattlesnake_nm
05-18-2011, 6:35 PM
Do you shop at Palmetto Armory? How abour Glen's Army Navy? $299/1000 is the going rate for Federal 5.56 55gr if you shop. Combine that with free shipping from some... and you are good.


Yes, I just paid $329 for 1000 rounds of m855 shipped from palmetto. I used to buy 1000 rounds at walmart for $200 federal brass.

missiontrails
05-18-2011, 6:37 PM
Yes, I just paid $329 for 1000 rounds of m855 shipped from palmetto. I used to buy 1000 rounds at walmart for $200 federal brass.
Yes, I remember Walmart... that was .223 though... the green and white box. I just bought 1000 of PMC X-Tac XM855 from Palmetto for $309.

hellraiser
05-18-2011, 6:38 PM
All I'm saying is there's nothing wrong with sticking up on the cheapest ammo your gun will eat.


For some that ammo will be lower grade then others.

folcker
05-18-2011, 6:40 PM
First, I did not call you an idiot directly. Second, relying on some cut rate garbage import ammo IS EVEN MORE STUPID. Anyone care to refute that? Since ALL ammo is available for stocking at this time for GOOD prices? Getting cheap with ammo at the range is one thing, protecting your life with said ammo is a whole other thing. Right now we all have choices for stockpile: Pay .30 per round for real ammo, or .20 for import underpowered dirty crap.

All i know is your calling ANYBODY an idiot AND cheap .for stocking up on wolf. You know what ... your rite. Im gonna not be an idiot and stop being cheap. The first thing Im gonna do is build or buy an unreliable rifle and then Im gonna make it all about the money! Now Ive got it all figured out!

missiontrails
05-18-2011, 6:44 PM
All i know is your calling ANYBODY an idiot AND cheap .for stocking up on wolf. You know what ... your rite. Im gonna not be an idiot and stop being cheap. The first thing Im gonna do is build or buy an unreliable rifle and then Im gonna make it all about the money! Now Ive got it all figured out!

DO YOU READ? I said stocking up for SHTF... NOT for the range........ shoot at the range what you like............ or protect your life with ghetto ammo. I see you are another who takes offense to logic........ We have access to what the big boys use in the field, or close to it......why would you NOT take advantage of that while you can? Let me guess...... because Russian Spam cans are more tacicool?

folcker
05-18-2011, 6:47 PM
DO YOU READ? I said stocking up for SHTF... NOT for the range........ shoot at the range what you like............ or protect your life with ghetto ammo. I see you are another who takes offense to logic........ We have access to what the big boys use in the field, or close to it......why would you NOT take advantage of that while you can? Let me guess...... because Russian Spam cans are more tacicool?
You glock quote says it all lol

missiontrails
05-18-2011, 6:50 PM
You glock quote says it all lol

That Glock can shoot Wolf all day long. I have yet to clean that Glock. It actually smells like sulphur.

mocos
05-18-2011, 6:50 PM
My understanding is that the steel case Wolf junk has a lacquer coating that really dirties the gun quick and puts off a more than normal awful smell discharge. As well, I have always understood that since it is steel case, it does not expand and contract when the round is fired... it just expands and so has a greater "chance" of failing to eject or jam in the chamber.

I just have always understood it to, all in all, be a junk choice so I have - and will always - just steer clear.

I haven't seen lacquer coated Wolf for maybe three years ...time to update your knowledge base....you're operating on hearsay...try the polymer coated stuff yourself....

folcker
05-18-2011, 6:52 PM
DO YOU READ? I said stocking up for SHTF... NOT for the range........ shoot at the range what you like............ or protect your life with ghetto ammo. I see you are another who takes offense to logic........ We have access to what the big boys use in the field, or close to it......why would you NOT take advantage of that while you can? Let me guess...... because Russian Spam cans are more tacicool?

Seriousely dude im not tryin to be rude or a gun snob just wanna make sure were on the same page. Weres the logistic part at im looking for it?

The War Wagon
05-18-2011, 6:55 PM
Wolf works GREAT for me... in my AK! :rolleyes:

If it goes in my AR, it's brass-cased. Period. I got about 600 rounds of old Wolf laquer-cased crap as part of a larger deal about 4 years ago. It's my bottom-of-the-barrel/last-stand ammo. And I'll have to plow through 12k of brass-cased 5.56 to get to it, too!

missiontrails
05-18-2011, 6:58 PM
Seriousely dude im not tryin to be rude or a gun snob just wanna make sure were on the same page. Weres the logistic part at im looking for it?
The logic part is this: TODAY you have a CHOICE as to what ammo to purchase and keep for SHTF............... Why ITF would you conciously CHOOSE Wolf, Tula, Brownbear etc.. to store for that purpose? To save how much $$? If you need to save whatever that amount of $$ is on ammo you are planning on storing......you should not even be shooting, you should use that money for food, gas, rent, mortgage etc...... I mean really.

TurboChrisB
05-18-2011, 6:59 PM
Jeezzz, your whole anti-wolf ammo tirades have really gotten BORING.

JUm3
05-18-2011, 7:01 PM
The Wolf classic ammo is underpowered. The bolt had enough power to cycle the action but not enough to chamber another round. It has to do with the opening of your gas port. Instead of messing with it to get reliable feeding with that ammo, just use regular velocity ammo. Problem solved. It has NOTHING to do with DI vs piston.
I have a BCM 14.5" with rifle buffer system and it feeds fine except for the second to last and last round and sometimes doesnt lock the bolt back.
It does run fine with a carbine buffer system and/or regular velocity ammo.
Hope this helps.

Oh yeah. on the last round, it never locked the bolt back. Twice

missiontrails
05-18-2011, 7:02 PM
Jeezzz, your whole anti-wolf ammo tirades have really gotten BORING.

Hey, I didn't start this one.....:TFH:

762.DEFENSE
05-18-2011, 7:02 PM
No problems on my end.

missiontrails
05-18-2011, 7:03 PM
No problems on my end.

Viagra?

mocos
05-18-2011, 7:06 PM
Because the Hornady uses real powder that does not gum up your weapon. What does Hornady coat their steel cases?

is the Hornady boxer primed?...if it is, then it might be U.S. made but if it is berdan primed and polymer coated it's probably some of that crummy wolf-like stuff you talk about...from the ads, looks like Hornady bullets and powder? who knows.....and ....the russians don't have a lock on dirty burning powder for sure...

hellraiser
05-18-2011, 7:07 PM
The logic part is this: TODAY you have a CHOICE as to what ammo to purchase and keep for SHTF............... Why ITF would you conciously CHOOSE Wolf, Tula, Brownbear etc.. to store for that purpose? To save how much $$? If you need to save whatever that amount of $$ is on ammo you are planning on storing......you should not even be shooting, you should use that money for food, gas, rent, mortgage etc...... I mean really.

I'm not bagging on you dude but if your gun runs fine with it then why not? Yours don't oh well... No biggie buy more expensive if that's what it takes.

JUm3
05-18-2011, 7:13 PM
I have the afghan. I did not know i had a "match grade" chamber. So what ammo am I suppose to shoot. And will .223 and other 5.56 ammo, that are not "match," damage my barrel?


There is no such thing as a "stainless N4".

If you have a 14.5" stainless Noveske, you have a match grade Afghan barrel. It has a match grade chamber that's tighter than 5.56mm chamber. You should be kicked in the balls for shooting cheap ***** ammo through a SS precision barrel.

If you have a 14.5" N4, it's not stainless. Run brass ammo. If it works, stay with brass ammo.

Justintoxicated
05-18-2011, 7:14 PM
What do the spent cases look like?

missiontrails
05-18-2011, 7:16 PM
I'm not bagging on you dude but if your gun runs fine with it then why not? Yours don't oh well... No biggie buy more expensive if that's what it takes.

We all have choices...... and for storing ammo for emergencies, if saving $60 on a box of 1000 is what you think is smart......................................well

You just can't help everybody.

7.62 Charlie
05-18-2011, 7:17 PM
:popcorn:

missiontrails
05-18-2011, 7:22 PM
I have the afghan. I did not know i had a "match grade" chamber. So what ammo am I suppose to shoot. And will .223 and other 5.56 ammo, that are not "match," damage my barrel?

PMC Bronze .223, sellier & Bellot .223, Fiochi .223, just to name a few will all work. By buddy has that upper. ALL 5.56 will work fine.

JUm3
05-18-2011, 7:23 PM
but doesn't a "tighter chamber" need a skinnier bullet?

JUm3
05-18-2011, 7:24 PM
forgot to mention, I am a AR noob. This is my first rifle and I know nothing aboht this stuff. I do stock Hornandy tap though. I just posted an observation.... I did not know there was a whole wolf ammo war

FeuerFrei
05-18-2011, 7:26 PM
:popcorn:

:popcorn:

This is better than WWF wrestling!

Duck season...wabbit season...duck season...wabbit season...
:rolleyes:

mocos
05-18-2011, 7:27 PM
I have the afghan. I did not know i had a "match grade" chamber. So what ammo am I suppose to shoot. And will .223 and other 5.56 ammo, that are not "match," damage my barrel?

its a "Wylde" chamber...supposed to be more accomodating to different ammo types.......I wouldn't call it a match chamber......one of my barrels is a noveske recon....eats anything and I use mainly Wolf....runs like a greased pig. I think the net of it all is to have a weapon that eats anything you can chamber in it...and if it doesn't, fix it so it will then go settle on your favorite, go to, feel good round......

hellraiser
05-18-2011, 7:28 PM
We all have choices...... and for storing ammo for emergencies, if saving $60 on a box of 1000 is what you think is smart......................................well

You just can't help everybody.

Ok but if it's for emergencies wouldn't you want to rely on a firearm that works with a wider variety..............



Later guys.... I'm out if this one.

missiontrails
05-18-2011, 7:30 PM
Ok but if it's for emergencies wouldn't you want to rely on a firearm that works with a wider variety..............



Later guys.... I'm out if this one.
Yep, can't trust a Colt, a Noveske, or a Bushmaster for that.

Justintoxicated
05-18-2011, 7:35 PM
Headspace check the rifle, try the ammo in a different gun, check the gas tube for obstructions, try running the rifle wet, examine spent cases, try a lighter buffer weight?

I cycle Steel Cased .223 in my Bushmaster carbine fine.

mocos
05-18-2011, 7:36 PM
its a "Wylde" chamber...supposed to be more accomodating to different ammo types.......I wouldn't call it a match chamber......one of my barrels is a noveske recon....eats anything and I use mainly Wolf....runs like a greased pig. I think the net of it all is to have a weapon that eats anything you can chamber in it...and if it doesn't, fix it so it will then go settle on your favorite, go to, feel good round......

I'll take that back...currently it's a "mod O chamber" not Wylde....I think my first Noveske was a Wylde chamber...

Mail Clerk
05-18-2011, 7:40 PM
I wish Wolf would make their ammo using brass AND non-steel cored!!! My range (Angeles) doesn't allow steel core ammo to be shot at there. It appears to be one of few branded ammos that are reasonable inexpensive. The others are all corrosive in nature and are steel.

Mail Clerk

i<3HK
05-18-2011, 7:48 PM
Never had a problem with my Colt Sporter Hbar or HK91

cmace22
05-18-2011, 7:51 PM
If you rifle doesn't function on wolf and others do its only logical that its your rife....... NOT the ammo.....

Are there better choices, yes.

Are you stupid for stockpiling wolf if thats what you can afford-only if your rifle doesnt function on it.

Are you stupid for thinking your AR doesnt have an issue if it doesnt cycle that evil commy ammo-yes unless you want to buy different ammo!

I would venture to say the vast majority of AR's cycle wolf just fine. If your doesnt its only an issue WITH YOUR RIFLE unless you want to fix it or pay more for ammo.

missiontrails
05-18-2011, 7:51 PM
Never had a problem with my Colt Hbar or HK91

Your HK91 has a flutted chamber, nothing is gonna stick in that. I used to have a SAR-8.... HK91 clone marketed by Springfield............ I recal using many brown casings in that one. The thing is....308 is .308...... but there is a notable difference between .223 and 5.56.

rattlesnake_nm
05-18-2011, 8:00 PM
mission, You are putting our fud, and making an *** of Yourself to be honest. I like all of Your posts on this forum except when it comes to wolf ammo. It seems You cannot help Yourself. You are a hard headed mofo, and I like that. I just think You are putting out fud on wolf. If You don't like it, don't buy it, but don't lose sleep over it. Is seems You get really intense when it comes to wolf.

NorCalK9.com
05-18-2011, 8:00 PM
Quick rant and warning.

There is no better way to put it. In a box of twenty, I've had 3 Failure to feeds. It's the Wolf Military classic 556 ammo. I didn't buy these, they just came with my rifle as a package and they are absolutely terrible. I had a second box and I didn't even bother to try that out.

After a cycle, the bolt would wedge the bullet into one of the chamber keys, completely unaligned with the center of the champer. Did this 3 times.

It would be more effective throwing these down range.

Couple controls: Noveske 14.5 stainless N4. Always cleaned. Had never had a failure with hundreds of federal 5.56.
my ak loves all ammo. Eats it all up and shoots it down range that way i dont throw my arm out lol

cmace22
05-18-2011, 8:02 PM
my ak loves all ammo. Eats it all up and shoots it down range that way i dont throw my arm out lol

Most do but we are taking AR's here.

luckystrike
05-18-2011, 8:04 PM
Agree! Now, many cheapos on here are a)going to argue that and b)Tell you that your rifle is a POS. We have a Colt 6940 in the family, and it choked on one out of every three Herters (Cabella's brand of Russian)..... There was silence when I brougt up that point in one of my past threads........ Next will be all the Delton, Stag, and BCM owners that will say their rifles love it....... I refuse to run that dirty crap even if my rifles cycle it.
%100 different story with aks that are designed to fire steel. point me in the direction of brasscase/leadcore 762 and 5.45 thats not incredibly overpriced like fiocchi and remington ****. NOT paying $10.00 for 20rnds. people buying wolf in general being cheapos couldnt be further from the truth, its the fact that its the only thing available for some firearms

missiontrails
05-18-2011, 8:07 PM
%100 different story with aks that are designed to fire steel. point me in the direction of brasscase/leadcore 762 and 5.45 thats not incredibly overpriced like fiocchi and remington ****. NOT paying $10.00 for 20rnds. people buying wolf in general being cheapos couldnt be further from the truth, its the fact that its the only thing available for some firearms
100% AGREE WITH YOU........LOL THAT RIFLE IN MY SIGNATURE SHOOTS STEEL...... THE $450 MUTT RIFLE LOVES IT!

whippet
05-18-2011, 8:08 PM
My three AR's and one 5.56 AK have all worked fine with Wolf and/or other steel case Russian ammo.

I don't care to use it any more though because of the melted on lacquer coating left in the chamber and "coal dust" coating everything else. I'll spend a little more and get Lakeland bulk brass case, or bulk reloads at the gun show.

I still have a lot of the steel case in ammo cans, maybe I'll use it to barter for food when SHTF. Or shoot zombies with it.

rattlesnake_nm
05-18-2011, 8:11 PM
Laquer melting is an urban legend.

stormy_clothing
05-18-2011, 8:11 PM
there is no way noveske shipped you wolf ammo with there rifles that you bought it second hand is your problem - also an off the shelf pair of stags my cop buddy just bought breezed through 1000 rounds last weekend with the only problem being cured by the application of a pmags. that problem occurred with Remington too ammo btw.

NorCalK9.com
05-18-2011, 8:14 PM
Tell the enemy to count their lucky stars, because if they had "high performace guns" they'd be screwed, too!

hahaha +1

NorCalK9.com
05-18-2011, 8:16 PM
Most do but we are taking AR's here.

no actually we are talking about wolf ammo that he called crap

whippet
05-18-2011, 8:28 PM
Laquer melting is an urban legend.

Not an urban legend! It's True! I had major melted lacquer goo in my chamber after sustained rapid firing at giant albino aligators that came up out of the sewer, also when shooting at chupacabras running through my yard, and when fending off aliens tring to abduct me with a tractor beam. Fortunately, black stealth helicoptors showed up and chased them away....

mocos
05-18-2011, 8:28 PM
I will not own a rifle that will not cycle Wolf. Doesn't matter if it's Colt, Noveske, or a DPMS. A combat rifle that is so ammo sensitive it has to be feed a certain diet is an accident waiting to happen for me.
I like to be prepared for any scenario. There may be a time when all I could get my hands on is steel case.
But then I build most of my own rifles so I can adjust them to run what ever I want them to run.
Dave

ditto

8200rpm
05-18-2011, 8:29 PM
At the foot of some high mountains there was, once upon a time, a small village, and a little way off two roads met, one of them going to the east and the other to the west. The villagers were quiet, hard-working folk, who toiled in the fields all day, and in the evening set out for home when the bell began to ring in the little church. In the summer mornings they led out their flocks to pasture, and were happy and contented from sunrise to sunset.

One summer night, when a round full moon shone down upon the white road, a great wolf came trotting round the corner.

`I positively must get a good meal before I go back to my den,' he said to himself; `it is nearly a week since I have tasted anything but scraps, though perhaps no one would think it to look at my figure! Of course there are plenty of rabbits and hares in the mountains; but indeed one needs to be a greyhound to catch them, and I am not so young as I was! If I could only dine off that fox I saw a fortnight ago, curled up into a delicious hairy ball, I should ask nothing better; I would have eaten her then, but unluckily her husband was lying beside her, and one knows that foxes, great and small, run like the wind. Really it seems as if there was not a living creature left for me to prey upon but a wolf, and, as the proverb says:" One wolf does not bite another." However, let us see what this village can produce. I am as hungry as a schoolmaster.'

Now, while these thoughts were running through the mind of the wolf, the very fox he had been thinking of was galloping along the other road.

`The whole of this day I have listened to those village liens clucking till I could bear it no longer,' murmured she as she bounded along, hardly seeming to touch the ground. `When you are fond of fowls and eggs it is the sweetest of all music. As sure as there is a sun in heaven I will have some of them this night, for I have grown so thin that my very bones rattle, and my poor babies are crying for food.' And as she spoke she reached a little plot of grass, where the two roads joined, and flung herself under a tree to take a little rest, and to settle her plans. At this moment the wolf came up.

At the sight of the fox lying within his grasp his mouth began to water, but his joy was somewhat checked when he noticed how thin she was. The fox's quick ears heard the sound of his paws, though they were as soft as velvet, and turning her head she said politely,

`Is that you, neighbour? What a strange place to meet in! I hope you are quite well?'

`Quite well as regards my health,' answered the wolf, whose eye glistened greedily, `at least, as well as one can be when one is very hungry. But what is the matter with you? A fortnight ago you were as plump as heart could wish!'

`I have been ill-very ill,' replied the fox, `and what you say is quite true. A worm is fat in comparison with me.'

`He is. Still, you are good enough for me; for " to the hungry no bread is hard."'

`Oh, you are always joking! I'm sure you are not half as hungry as I!'

`That we shall soon see,' cried the wolf, opening his huge mouth and crouching for a spring.

`What are you doing?' exclaimed the fox, stepping backwards.

`What am I doing? What I am going to do is to make my supper off you, in less time than a cock takes to crow.'

`Well, I suppose you must have your joke,' answered the fox lightly, but never removing her eye from the wolf, who replied with a snarl which showed all his teeth,

`I don't want to joke, but to eat!'

'But surely a person of your talents must perceive that you might eat me to the very last morsel and never know that you had swallowed anything at all!'

`In this world the cleverest people are always the hungriest,' replied the wolf.

`Ah! how true that is; but-'

`I can't stop to listen to your " buts " and " vets,"' broke in the wolf rudely; `let us get to the point, and the point is that I want to eat you and not talk to you.'

`Have you no pity for a poor mother?' asked the fox, putting her tail to her eyes, but peeping slily out of them all the same.

`I am dying of hunger,' answered the wolf, doggedly; `and you know,' he added with a grin, `that charity begins at home.'

`Quite so,' replied the fox; `it would be unreasonable of me to object to your satisfying your appetite at my expense. But if the fox resigns herself to the sacrifice, the mother offers you one last request.'

`Then be quick and don't waste time, for I can't wait much longer. What is it you want?'

You must know,' said the fox, `that in this village there is a rich man who makes in the summer enough cheeses to last him for the whole year, and keeps them in an old well, now dry, in his courtyard. By the well hang two buckets on a pole that were used, in former days, to draw up water. For many nights I have crept down to the place, and have lowered myself in the bucket, bringing home with me enough cheese to feed the children. All I beg of you is to come with me, and, instead of hunting chickens and such things, I will make a good meal off cheese before I die.'

`But the cheeses may be all finished by now?'

`If you were only to see the quantities of them!' laughed the fox. `And even if they were finished, there would always be me to eat.'

`Well, I will come. Lead the way, but I warn you that if you try to escape or play any tricks you are reckoning without your host-that is to say, without my legs, which are as long as yours!'

All was silent in the village, and not a light was to be seen but that of the moon, which shone bright and clear in the sky. The wolf and the fox crept softly along, when suddenly they stopped and looked at each other; a savoury smell of frying bacon reached their noses, arid reached the noses of the sleeping dogs, who began to bark greedily.

`Is it safe to go on, think you?' asked the wolf in a whisper: And the fox shook her head.

`Not while the dogs are barking,' said she; `someone might come out to see if anything was the matter.' And she signed to the wolf to curl himself up in the shadow beside her.

In about half an hour the dogs grew tired of barking, or perhaps the bacon was eaten up and there was no more smell to excite them. Then the wolf and the fox jumped up, and. hastened to the foot of the wall.

`I am lighter than he is,' thought the fox to herself, `and perhaps if I make haste I can get a start, and jump over the wall on the other side before he manages to spring over this one.' And she quickened her pace. But if the wolf could not run he could jump, and with one bound he was beside his companion.

`What were you going to do, comrade?'

`Oh, nothing,' replied the fox, much vexed at the failure of her plan.

`I think if I were to take a bite out of your haunch you would jump better,' said the wolf, giving a snap at her as he spoke. The fox drew back uneasily.

`Be careful, or I shall scream,' she snarled. And the wolf, understanding all that might happen if the fox carried out her threat, gave a signal to his companion to leap on the wall, where he immediately followed her.

Once on the top they crouched down and looked about them. Not a creature was to be seen in the courtyard, and in the furthest corner from the house stood the well, with its two buckets suspended from a pole, just as the fox had described it. The two thieves dragged themselves noiselessly along the wall till they were opposite the well, and by stretching out her neck as far as it would go the fox was able to make out that there was only very little water in the bottom, but just enough to reflect the moon, big, and round and yellow.

`How lucky!' cried she to the wolf. 'There is a huge cheese about the size of a mill wheel. Look! look! dial you ever see anything so beautiful!'

`Never!' answered the wolf, peering over in his turn, his eyes glistening greedily, for he imagined that the moon's reflection in the water was really a cheese.

`And now, unbeliever, what have you to say?' And the fox laughed gently.

`That you are a woman-I mean a fox-of your word,' replied the wolf.

`Well, then, go down in that bucket and eat your fill,' said the fox.

`Oh, is that your game?' asked the wolf, with a grin. `No! no! The person who goes down in the bucket will be you! And if you don't go down your head will go without you!'

`Of course I will go down, with the greatest pleasure,' answered the fox, who had expected the wolf's reply.

'And be sure you don't eat all the cheese, or it will be the worse for you,' continued the wolf. But the fox looked up at him with tears in her eyes.

'Farewell, suspicious one!' she said sadly. And climbed into the bucket.

In an instant she had reached the bottom of -the well, and found that the water was not deep enough to cover her legs.

`Why, it is larger and richer than I thought,' cried she, turning towards the wolf, who was leaning over the wall of the well.

'Then be quick and bring it up,' commanded the wolf.

`How can I, when it weighs more than I do?' asked the fox.

'If it is so heavy bring it in two bits, of course,' said he.

'But I have no knife,' answered the fox. `You will have to come down yourself, and we will carry it up between us.'

`And how am I to come down?' inquired the wolf.

'Oh, you are really very stupid! Get into the other bucket that is nearly over your head.'

The wolf looked up, and saw the bucket hanging there, and with some difficulty he climbed into it. As he weighed at least four times as much as the fox the bucket went down with a jerk, and the other bucket, in which the. fox was seated, came to the surface.

As soon as he understood what was happening, the wolf began to speak like an angry wolf, but was a little comforted when he remembered that the cheese still remained to him.

`But where is the cheese?' he asked of the fox, who in her turn was leaning over the parapet watching his proceedings with a smile.

The cheese?' answered the fox; `why I am taking it home to my babies, who are too young to get food for themselves.'

'Ah, traitor!' cried the wolf, howling with rage. But the fog was not there to hear this insult, for she had gone off to a neighbouring fowl-house, where she had noticed some fat young chickens the day before.

`Perhaps I did treat him rather badly,' she said to herself. I But it seems getting cloudy, and if there should be heavy rain the other bucket will fill and sink to the bottom, and his will go up-at least it may!'

missiontrails
05-18-2011, 8:31 PM
Not an urban legend! It's True! I had major melted lacquer goo in my chamber after sustained rapid firing at giant albino aligators that came up out of the sewer, also when shooting at chupacabras running through my yard, and when fending off aliens tring to abduct me with a tractor beam. Fortunately, black stealth helicoptors showed up and chased them away....

My lacquer mented and caused chamber malfunction while shooting Wombats in my T-16 back home.....

Droppin Deuces
05-18-2011, 8:37 PM
I have to admit that I've never even shot lacquer coated cases or Wolf ammo. That lacquer looks like dried piss, and Wolf casings don't look nice like Tula. I may shoot Russian occasionally, but I do have standards.

whippet
05-18-2011, 8:38 PM
At the foot of some high mountains there was, once upon a time, a small village, and a little way off two roads met, one of them going to the east and the other to the west. The villagers were quiet, hard-working folk, who toiled in the fields all day, and in the evening set out for home when the bell began to ring in the little church. In the summer mornings they led out their flocks to pasture, and were happy and contented from sunrise to sunset.

One summer night, when a round full moon shone down upon the white road, a great wolf came trotting round the corner.

`I positively must get a good meal before I go back to my den,' he said to himself; `it is nearly a week since I have tasted anything but scraps, though perhaps no one would think it to look at my figure! Of course there are plenty of rabbits and hares in the mountains; but indeed one needs to be a greyhound to catch them, and I am not so young as I was! If I could only dine off that fox I saw a fortnight ago, curled up into a delicious hairy ball, I should ask nothing better; I would have eaten her then, but unluckily her husband was lying beside her, and one knows that foxes, great and small, run like the wind. Really it seems as if there was not a living creature left for me to prey upon but a wolf, and, as the proverb says:" One wolf does not bite another." However, let us see what this village can produce. I am as hungry as a schoolmaster.'

Now, while these thoughts were running through the mind of the wolf, the very fox he had been thinking of was galloping along the other road.

`The whole of this day I have listened to those village liens clucking till I could bear it no longer,' murmured she as she bounded along, hardly seeming to touch the ground. `When you are fond of fowls and eggs it is the sweetest of all music. As sure as there is a sun in heaven I will have some of them this night, for I have grown so thin that my very bones rattle, and my poor babies are crying for food.' And as she spoke she reached a little plot of grass, where the two roads joined, and flung herself under a tree to take a little rest, and to settle her plans. At this moment the wolf came up.

At the sight of the fox lying within his grasp his mouth began to water, but his joy was somewhat checked when he noticed how thin she was. The fox's quick ears heard the sound of his paws, though they were as soft as velvet, and turning her head she said politely,

`Is that you, neighbour? What a strange place to meet in! I hope you are quite well?'

`Quite well as regards my health,' answered the wolf, whose eye glistened greedily, `at least, as well as one can be when one is very hungry. But what is the matter with you? A fortnight ago you were as plump as heart could wish!'

`I have been ill-very ill,' replied the fox, `and what you say is quite true. A worm is fat in comparison with me.'

`He is. Still, you are good enough for me; for " to the hungry no bread is hard."'

`Oh, you are always joking! I'm sure you are not half as hungry as I!'

`That we shall soon see,' cried the wolf, opening his huge mouth and crouching for a spring.

`What are you doing?' exclaimed the fox, stepping backwards.

`What am I doing? What I am going to do is to make my supper off you, in less time than a cock takes to crow.'

`Well, I suppose you must have your joke,' answered the fox lightly, but never removing her eye from the wolf, who replied with a snarl which showed all his teeth,

`I don't want to joke, but to eat!'

'But surely a person of your talents must perceive that you might eat me to the very last morsel and never know that you had swallowed anything at all!'

`In this world the cleverest people are always the hungriest,' replied the wolf.

`Ah! how true that is; but-'

`I can't stop to listen to your " buts " and " vets,"' broke in the wolf rudely; `let us get to the point, and the point is that I want to eat you and not talk to you.'

`Have you no pity for a poor mother?' asked the fox, putting her tail to her eyes, but peeping slily out of them all the same.

`I am dying of hunger,' answered the wolf, doggedly; `and you know,' he added with a grin, `that charity begins at home.'

`Quite so,' replied the fox; `it would be unreasonable of me to object to your satisfying your appetite at my expense. But if the fox resigns herself to the sacrifice, the mother offers you one last request.'

`Then be quick and don't waste time, for I can't wait much longer. What is it you want?'

You must know,' said the fox, `that in this village there is a rich man who makes in the summer enough cheeses to last him for the whole year, and keeps them in an old well, now dry, in his courtyard. By the well hang two buckets on a pole that were used, in former days, to draw up water. For many nights I have crept down to the place, and have lowered myself in the bucket, bringing home with me enough cheese to feed the children. All I beg of you is to come with me, and, instead of hunting chickens and such things, I will make a good meal off cheese before I die.'

`But the cheeses may be all finished by now?'

`If you were only to see the quantities of them!' laughed the fox. `And even if they were finished, there would always be me to eat.'

`Well, I will come. Lead the way, but I warn you that if you try to escape or play any tricks you are reckoning without your host-that is to say, without my legs, which are as long as yours!'

All was silent in the village, and not a light was to be seen but that of the moon, which shone bright and clear in the sky. The wolf and the fox crept softly along, when suddenly they stopped and looked at each other; a savoury smell of frying bacon reached their noses, arid reached the noses of the sleeping dogs, who began to bark greedily.

`Is it safe to go on, think you?' asked the wolf in a whisper: And the fox shook her head.

`Not while the dogs are barking,' said she; `someone might come out to see if anything was the matter.' And she signed to the wolf to curl himself up in the shadow beside her.

In about half an hour the dogs grew tired of barking, or perhaps the bacon was eaten up and there was no more smell to excite them. Then the wolf and the fox jumped up, and. hastened to the foot of the wall.

`I am lighter than he is,' thought the fox to herself, `and perhaps if I make haste I can get a start, and jump over the wall on the other side before he manages to spring over this one.' And she quickened her pace. But if the wolf could not run he could jump, and with one bound he was beside his companion.

`What were you going to do, comrade?'

`Oh, nothing,' replied the fox, much vexed at the failure of her plan.

`I think if I were to take a bite out of your haunch you would jump better,' said the wolf, giving a snap at her as he spoke. The fox drew back uneasily.

`Be careful, or I shall scream,' she snarled. And the wolf, understanding all that might happen if the fox carried out her threat, gave a signal to his companion to leap on the wall, where he immediately followed her.

Once on the top they crouched down and looked about them. Not a creature was to be seen in the courtyard, and in the furthest corner from the house stood the well, with its two buckets suspended from a pole, just as the fox had described it. The two thieves dragged themselves noiselessly along the wall till they were opposite the well, and by stretching out her neck as far as it would go the fox was able to make out that there was only very little water in the bottom, but just enough to reflect the moon, big, and round and yellow.

`How lucky!' cried she to the wolf. 'There is a huge cheese about the size of a mill wheel. Look! look! dial you ever see anything so beautiful!'

`Never!' answered the wolf, peering over in his turn, his eyes glistening greedily, for he imagined that the moon's reflection in the water was really a cheese.

`And now, unbeliever, what have you to say?' And the fox laughed gently.

`That you are a woman-I mean a fox-of your word,' replied the wolf.

`Well, then, go down in that bucket and eat your fill,' said the fox.

`Oh, is that your game?' asked the wolf, with a grin. `No! no! The person who goes down in the bucket will be you! And if you don't go down your head will go without you!'

`Of course I will go down, with the greatest pleasure,' answered the fox, who had expected the wolf's reply.

'And be sure you don't eat all the cheese, or it will be the worse for you,' continued the wolf. But the fox looked up at him with tears in her eyes.

'Farewell, suspicious one!' she said sadly. And climbed into the bucket.

In an instant she had reached the bottom of -the well, and found that the water was not deep enough to cover her legs.

`Why, it is larger and richer than I thought,' cried she, turning towards the wolf, who was leaning over the wall of the well.

'Then be quick and bring it up,' commanded the wolf.

`How can I, when it weighs more than I do?' asked the fox.

'If it is so heavy bring it in two bits, of course,' said he.

'But I have no knife,' answered the fox. `You will have to come down yourself, and we will carry it up between us.'

`And how am I to come down?' inquired the wolf.

'Oh, you are really very stupid! Get into the other bucket that is nearly over your head.'

The wolf looked up, and saw the bucket hanging there, and with some difficulty he climbed into it. As he weighed at least four times as much as the fox the bucket went down with a jerk, and the other bucket, in which the. fox was seated, came to the surface.

As soon as he understood what was happening, the wolf began to speak like an angry wolf, but was a little comforted when he remembered that the cheese still remained to him.

`But where is the cheese?' he asked of the fox, who in her turn was leaning over the parapet watching his proceedings with a smile.

The cheese?' answered the fox; `why I am taking it home to my babies, who are too young to get food for themselves.'

'Ah, traitor!' cried the wolf, howling with rage. But the fog was not there to hear this insult, for she had gone off to a neighbouring fowl-house, where she had noticed some fat young chickens the day before.

`Perhaps I did treat him rather badly,' she said to herself. I But it seems getting cloudy, and if there should be heavy rain the other bucket will fill and sink to the bottom, and his will go up-at least it may!'


While your post is addressing the bad qualities of Wolf, the part about cheese getting a little off topic...:D

mocos
05-18-2011, 8:38 PM
mission, You are putting our fud, and making an *** of Yourself to be honest. I like all of Your posts on this forum except when it comes to wolf ammo. It seems You cannot help Yourself. You are a hard headed mofo, and I like that. I just think You are putting out fud on wolf. If You don't like it, don't buy it, but don't lose sleep over it. Is seems You get really intense when it comes to wolf.

truth of the matter is that he is an ammo rep for a competitive boolit maker..

Dhena81
05-18-2011, 8:41 PM
I think SHTF is hilarious for most people if SHTF you'd be truely F****d this would be horrible. It might be good to know some mall ninjas though I'd be cool with hanging out at South Coast plaza or something. Especially if I could out flank the combat golf carts with mounted M60's.

Arnelcheeze
05-18-2011, 8:44 PM
I wanted to try it just to see how it went. 100 rounds of wolf on my Stag Model 8, no issues at all.

Spetsnazos
05-18-2011, 8:45 PM
elitist are strong in this thread...LOL at your awesome gun that requires the cleanest ammo on the marker

Dhena81
05-18-2011, 8:49 PM
I would just run a lighter buffer

cmace22
05-18-2011, 8:49 PM
no actually we are talking about wolf ammo that he called crap

Actually the thread is about wolf ammo in AR's that was derailed by missiontrail by calling it crap. The issue has never been that wolf is crap in AK's. Even missiontrails wouldnt argue that lol.

Quick rant and warning.

There is no better way to put it. In a box of twenty, I've had 3 Failure to feeds. It's the Wolf Military classic 556 ammo. I didn't buy these, they just came with my rifle as a package and they are absolutely terrible. I had a second box and I didn't even bother to try that out.

After a cycle, the bolt would wedge the bullet into one of the chamber keys, completely unaligned with the center of the champer. Did this 3 times.

It would be more effective throwing these down range.

Couple controls: Noveske 14.5 stainless N4. Always cleaned. Had never had a failure with hundreds of federal 5.56.

CGK60
05-18-2011, 9:08 PM
I've never had any problems in my AR.

mif_slim
05-18-2011, 9:44 PM
Baahahaha, this again?! I see the same folk from the last one too!!

Ay ya Yai ya Yai ya yai....

carloooo
05-19-2011, 2:04 AM
i think this thread would have been pages shorter if everyone had just read. just my two cents.

speeedracerr
05-19-2011, 2:10 AM
Just something I found on Youtube about Wolf Ammo:
THE TRUTH ABOUT WOLF AMMO A perspective of some youtube user...

http://youtu.be/VR3fi1wCSmM

Spetsnazos
05-19-2011, 2:53 AM
Gun A - Non-Colt, makes every kind of ammo go bang and gets 2 MOA with Wolf, 0.5 MOA with high quality ammo

Gun B - Colt, can't shoot Wolf, gets 0.5 MOA with quality ammo.

Yep looks like Gun B is better

missiontrails
05-19-2011, 7:30 AM
Just something I found on Youtube about Wolf Ammo:
THE TRUTH ABOUT WOLF AMMO A perspective of some youtube user...

http://youtu.be/VR3fi1wCSmM

That's a useless video, unless you can test every rifle from every manufacture.

cmace22
05-19-2011, 7:41 AM
You can lead a horse........

sleepercar
05-19-2011, 7:54 AM
Mission, your post died a long time ago. Just let it go, buddy... It's ok...
Shhhhhhhhhhhh...........

Sanderhawk
05-19-2011, 8:08 AM
As of yesterday over 500 rnds of wolf thru my AK and not one FTF

C_1
05-19-2011, 8:25 AM
I been off the forums for a bit, and I come back, and its like the same thread; Missiontrails vs Wolf. Haha.

So how many pages/posts will it take this time? Hello to everybody from the last thread :)

missiontrails
05-19-2011, 8:35 AM
I been off the forums for a bit, and I come back, and its like the same thread; Missiontrails vs Wolf. Haha.

So how many pages/posts will it take this time? Hello to everybody from the last thread :)

This is not my thread:) I only made 2 points.... stock up with good ammo for emergencies (because it is available), stock up on Wolf or whatever for the range if that's your thing..

Second... I simply made a point about gas ports, and how that will determine if your rifle can handle under powered ammo.

One post above stated that this would be pages shorter if people would READ. I already stated that I use Russian in AK's...... People just jump in and make stupid comments, without reading everything in context. Simple.

Spetsnazos
05-19-2011, 11:24 AM
That's a useless video, unless you can test every rifle from every manufacture.

it's ok if you overpaid on your rifle. When will you admit that Wolf is decent ammo ?

Cali-Shooter
05-19-2011, 11:30 AM
Anyone who stockpiles Wolf for SHTF is an idiot anyway.

:oops: Sweeping generalizations strike again. Care to back that 'fact' up or is that merely an opinion that no one else except you might have? ;)

Droppin Deuces
05-19-2011, 11:37 AM
This is not my thread:) I only made 2 points.... stock up with good ammo for emergencies (because it is available), stock up on Wolf or whatever for the range if that's your thing..

Second... I simply made a point about gas ports, and how that will determine if your rifle can handle under powered ammo.

One post above stated that this would be pages shorter if people would READ. I already stated that I use Russian in AK's...... People just jump in and make stupid comments, without reading everything in context. Simple.

I don't care who you are, it's hard to read 'you're a cheapskate or an idiot if you stockpile Russian ammo' out of context. That's the one common thing in your argument against Russian ammo aside from your apparent belief that awesome guns don't run on it.

chicoredneck
05-19-2011, 11:48 AM
I have run about a 1000 rounds of brown bear through my rock river and besides it being dirty and slow there hasn't been any problems. IF I run brass ammo behind a few brown bears it cleans the carbon fowling our of the chamber without any cases getting stuck. For the price its hard to beat. PMC, Centurion, and IMI surplus can all be found just as cheap at times though and it is better quality. Especially the IMI stuff.

titankeith
05-19-2011, 11:55 AM
700 rounds of cheap wolf .223 through my CMMG...not ONE jam.

woods
05-19-2011, 11:57 AM
I don't like to use wolf ammo because internet trolls make fun of me when I do.

Out of a few thousand rounds I've had only 2 or 3 not go boom and one was at a cmp match. Murphy's law. That happened with lake city once too.

The Moa is as low as most brands.


The new polymer coat is good and the rounds no longer fail to extract. Before the extractor sometimes ripped the lip off and I had fun tapping the case out with a rod. Now I don't ever have that issue.

If you had issues before don't be scared they are more reliable now.

Droppin Deuces
05-19-2011, 12:02 PM
I don't like to use wolf ammo because internet trolls make fun of me when I do.

Out of a few thousand rounds I've had only 2 or 3 not go boom and one was at a cmp match. Murphy's law. That happened with lake city once too.

The Moa is as low as most brands.


The new polymer coat is good and the rounds no longer fail to extract. Before the extractor sometimes ripped the lip off and I had fun tapping the case out with a rod. Now I don't ever have that issue.

If you had issues before don't be scared they are more reliable now.

Haha. At least you were prepared. Missiontrails was out in the middle of the desert and USC without a cleaning rod when that happened.:rofl:

dousan
05-19-2011, 12:07 PM
I have run wolf many times thru my Larue upper and wife has with her rifle gear
Never a single issue
I usually use it when i take newbs out
Keeps the cost down for them and they can shoot alot more
If just wife and I going we shoot Winchester pmc and other various brass types

HardHatMan
05-19-2011, 12:11 PM
agreed..... in the last 7 days alone I have bought +1200 rounds of nice clean brass cased .223 reloads off the craigslist from people dumping it. not to mention 1000rnds of 9mm. Good ammo is out there, just gotta look for it and not settle for Wolf :eek:

I would never shoot someone else's reloads. At least if you buy factory ammo, and have a kaboom, the manufacturer will replace your gun. If someone loaded hot rounds and sold them to you, you are SOL. If you reload yourself, at least you can control the amount of F ups you have.

gschoelles
05-19-2011, 7:32 PM
Ran 500 rounds 223 last weekend without a hitch

Quick rant and warning.

There is no better way to put it. In a box of twenty, I've had 3 Failure to feeds. It's the Wolf Military classic 556 ammo. I didn't buy these, they just came with my rifle as a package and they are absolutely terrible. I had a second box and I didn't even bother to try that out.

After a cycle, the bolt would wedge the bullet into one of the chamber keys, completely unaligned with the center of the champer. Did this 3 times.

It would be more effective throwing these down range.

Couple controls: Noveske 14.5 stainless N4. Always cleaned. Had never had a failure with hundreds of federal 5.56.

T3chnical
05-24-2011, 4:54 PM
Was hesitant to shoot WPA at first on my Sig-556SC but after 30rds I was hooked. My buddy has a Ruger-SR556 and he easily went through 300rds without a hitch.

ALTHOUGH...while reloading, I did hear some laughs from the guys next to us who said WPA were useless POS's. Until they seen us eat up plenty of 223's with no issues. They fired off 10rds in their CMMG AR and no problems.

Wolf may not be for everyone, but for those who do like them are paying dividends in their wallets. I agree with others, when SHTF can't blame the ammo if your "boom-stick" can't do its job.

WPA AMMO CONS: Be ready to spend lots of time cleaning afterward! (You get what you pay for)

missiontrails
05-24-2011, 5:13 PM
Was hesitant to shoot WPA at first on my Sig-556SC but after 30rds I was hooked. My buddy has a Ruger-SR556 and he easily went through 300rds without a hitch.

ALTHOUGH...while reloading, I did hear some laughs from the guys next to us who said WPA were useless POS's. Until they seen us eat up plenty of 223's with no issues. They fired off 10rds in their CMMG AR and no problems.

Wolf may not be for everyone, but for those who do like them are paying dividends in their wallets. I agree with others, when SHTF can't blame the ammo if your "boom-stick" can't do its job.

WPA AMMO CONS: Be ready to spend lots of time cleaning afterward! (You get what you pay for)

Herters Russian ammo ran through my Ruger SR-556C upper as well when I turned up the gas to "3"............................no issues.................. It was not my ammo, but I did run about 40 rounds................. I would never buy the crap for myself.

Cato
05-24-2011, 5:54 PM
Yeah, but they are cheap.

FeuerFrei
05-24-2011, 7:46 PM
I guess it comes down to personal standards of performance and expectations.
I have several DI and GP AR15 clones.
All cycled Wolf ammo from day one except a 16" RRA upper.
I changed out the gas block for an adjustable and "boom!" ... cycles Wolf like the others. Everything works in it. Even my "good" ammo.
All of my GP rifles cycled Wolf from day one.
I use Wolf to test new builds and especially pistols I have worked up because I figure if it eats Wolf without gagging then I can safely assume it's GTG.
So far my theory has worked.
My DI pistol w/SS 7.5" barrel will cycle Wolf ammo all day long, (it's a DI so you add more lube as you go and no worries).
Before this it would not cycle it at all. Only brass was working better but not 100%. After I tweaked the gas port, buffer combo, ( I like GSE short tubes) and added a adjustable gas block I can cycle any factory ammo through it now.
My GP AR pistols have been 100% from day one.
My point;
Basically either you have a gun that will run from the factory or you need to tune your rifle/pistol to run correctly. No matter how much you pay for it. Cost doesn't mean quality.
If it won't eat Wolf ammo something is "not" as correct as it could be.
With the economy what it is, I can shoot more buying cheap ammo to practice with. I usually save about $100/case with Wolf. ;)

Chunky_lover
05-25-2011, 8:18 AM
I hear this stuff is especially bad in Bushmaster uppers =X

never had one problem with it, but how dirty it is in my full bushmaster rifle

only one time had big time squids with some russian brand pistol ammo but dont know the name

most likely problems with your feed ramp, or if your rifle was to dirty to start with

NorCalK9.com
05-25-2011, 9:41 AM
Actually the thread is about wolf ammo in AR's that was derailed by missiontrail by calling it crap. The issue has never been that wolf is crap in AK's. Even missiontrails wouldnt argue that lol.

The thread states wolf ammo is crap how can the ammo be crap if it is good in an ak? I shot 800 rounds yesterday thru my m63 and no probs so again the op's post says wolf ammo is crap. Maybe its not the ammo that is crap.

missiontrails
05-25-2011, 9:55 AM
The thread states wolf ammo is crap how can the ammo be crap if it is good in an ak? I shot 800 rounds yesterday thru my m63 and no probs so again the op's post says wolf ammo is crap. Maybe its not the ammo that is crap.

Worst response yet. The OP DOES NOT have an AK. The tolerances between AK's and AR's are significantly different. When I have AK's.... I don't care what brand of Russian I buy.....it all works. 7.62x39 is an actual caliber, and AK's are chambered and gased for that caliber. .223 and 5.56 NATO are two different calibers, and explode with different pressures. How your 5.56 AR is gased will mostly determine how well .223 Russian works.

Super Spy
05-25-2011, 10:00 AM
I have no issues with cheap Russian ammo in my AR, and my AR is nothing special.

NorCalK9.com
05-25-2011, 11:40 AM
So off ? If a gun is finicky on brands of ammo how can said gun be reliable? I would never want a rifle that was picky and to point all 5 of my ARs shot wolf steel fine. So again wolf ammo does not suck. May not perform best of groups or be the cleanest but it is good ammo.

Scutler
05-25-2011, 11:47 AM
Here is the truth about Wolf ammo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VR3fi1wCSmM&feature=channel_video_title

J_Rock
05-25-2011, 12:25 PM
Wow, the retardation in this thread is strong. I love how no one noticed that the OP is using a 14.5" MIDLENGTH gas system nor did he state what weight buffer he running. The midlength 14.5" is inherently undergassed, this is done purposely to make a very soft shooting platform and many companies who make them put a disclaimer to only use full powered ammo because the 14.5" middy barrel intentionally undergassed. Hence underpowered wolf ammo(Wolf is underpowered, any who says otherwise is an idiot.) + 14.5" middy gas system + heavy buffer = problems. Either lower your buffer weight or start using ammo the gas system was designed for. Or conversely, START READING THE INSTRUCTIONS.

There is nothing wrong with the OPs gun. There is nothing wrong with wolf ammo as long as you use it how its intended to be used(read cheap plinking ammo).

Scutler
05-25-2011, 12:56 PM
Wow, the retardation in this thread is strong. I love how no one noticed that the OP is using a 14.5" MIDLENGTH gas system nor did he state what weight buffer he running. The midlength 14.5" is inherently undergassed, this is done purposely to make a very soft shooting platform and many companies who make them put a disclaimer to only use full powered ammo because the 14.5" middy barrel intentionally undergassed. Hence underpowered wolf ammo(Wolf is underpowered, any who says otherwise is an idiot.) + 14.5" middy gas system + heavy buffer = problems. Either lower your buffer weight or start using ammo the gas system was designed for. Or conversely, START READING THE INSTRUCTIONS.

There is nothing wrong with the OPs gun. There is nothing wrong with wolf ammo as long as you use it how its intended to be used(read cheap plinking ammo).

You 100% correct sir. Well put.

captbilly
05-25-2011, 1:06 PM
I have tested probably 20 different types of ammo in my .223 ARs (another 15 - 20 types of .308 in my LR .308) and only a few have been worth buying. Most of the really cheap ammo is garbage, if you care about accuracy. I have seen surplus .223 that has muzzle velocity variation of 300 fps, compared to inexpensive match ammo (from HSM) that has a velocity variation of closer to 20 fps. I have seen some of the really cheap stuff that creates many times more soot then decent ammo. I realize that ammo is by far the most expensive part of shooting for most people but what is the point of getting a AR (an inherently accurate rifle) and then putting ammo through it that won't get 6 MOA accuracy?

I would look for bargains on good quality ammo rather than crappy ammo at a really good price. Once you find something that shoots accurately and reliably in your gun, buy a bunch of it. This way you will be able to sight in your rifle and not have to continually readjust to new ammo with different ballistics. HSM 69 grain match ammo can be had for $14 a box of 20, or $30- $40 for a box of 50, Prvi Partizan Match can be had for $10 a box in 69 and 75 grain. The HSM is really good and the Prvi is good enough for most uses. Fiocchi 55 grain is horrible (shoots like 6 MOA and leaves a huge amount of soot). Federal match is great but expensive (like $25 a box of 20). Black Hills is great and cheaper then Federal (about $40 per box of 50.)

mif_slim
05-25-2011, 1:23 PM
Still going?! wow... should make it a sticky!



JK! DONT!

missiontrails
05-25-2011, 2:11 PM
Wow, the retardation in this thread is strong. I love how no one noticed that the OP is using a 14.5" MIDLENGTH gas system nor did he state what weight buffer he running. The midlength 14.5" is inherently undergassed, this is done purposely to make a very soft shooting platform and many companies who make them put a disclaimer to only use full powered ammo because the 14.5" middy barrel intentionally undergassed. Hence underpowered wolf ammo(Wolf is underpowered, any who says otherwise is an idiot.) + 14.5" middy gas system + heavy buffer = problems. Either lower your buffer weight or start using ammo the gas system was designed for. Or conversely, START READING THE INSTRUCTIONS.

There is nothing wrong with the OPs gun. There is nothing wrong with wolf ammo as long as you use it how its intended to be used(read cheap plinking ammo).

Thanks J Rock................most people in here can't articulate the gas port point that I have been TRYING to make....... Instead it's: If your AR won't shoot underpowered .223 WOLF reliably, well it's a POS........ AND SOMEHOW I "HIJACKED" THE THREAD TRYING TO MAKE THAT POINT.......LMAO

I would love to see the reliability issues if we issued EVERY Soldier and Marine Wolf ammo in the field................. most Del-Ton owners in here would say the US Military ussues POS rifles simply because they don't cycle Wolf perfectly........ and my guess would be that most problems would lead back to gasing.

folcker
05-25-2011, 2:53 PM
http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc69/danmoses66/ulrich.jpg

Ready4whenSHTF
05-25-2011, 3:03 PM
This thread is funny as hell.

Grumpyoldretiredcop
05-25-2011, 3:29 PM
I do love these threads. They amuse me. :popcorn:

On the other hand, having had a Colt SP-1 upper (now, there's a junk gun for you, eh?) self-destruct on the old-style Wolf lacquer case ammo, I reserve Russian ammo for Russian rifles. Haven't had a problem since. That doesn't mean Wolf is junk.

m98
05-25-2011, 5:05 PM
My spikes m4le eats wolf no prob

NorCalDustin
05-25-2011, 5:08 PM
I will not own a rifle that will not cycle Wolf. Doesn't matter if it's Colt, Noveske, or a DPMS. A combat rifle that is so ammo sensitive it has to be feed a certain diet is an accident waiting to happen for me.
I like to be prepared for any scenario. There may be a time when all I could get my hands on is steel case.
But then I build most of my own rifles so I can adjust them to run what ever I want them to run.
Dave
Exactly.


Bottom line... If your gun wont run wolf, something wrong with it. Now, maybe you just dont like running steal through your gun... fine, whatever... But, if it wont run Wolf, you should ditch it.

T3chnical
05-25-2011, 5:54 PM
Herters Russian ammo ran through my Ruger SR-556C upper as well when I turned up the gas to "3"............................no issues.................. It was not my ammo, but I did run about 40 rounds................. I would never buy the crap for myself.

Thanks for the heads up MISSIONTRAILS. I looked at the Herters ammo at the Del Mar Crossroads Show this past weekend and no one knowledgeable was around to give an opinion on it other than it's quality was similar to Wolf.

Also, spot on the about tuning the gas port on the SR-556. I forgot to mention my buddy with the Ruger actually had to adjust his gas up a bit to compensate his range targets (+200yds).

On my SIG 556SC, there was a $#%+load more residue than with my typical 556 Federal Champion (almost no cleaning necessary), but it was no comparison as on the SR-556 whose barrel was FILTHY. He didn't mind the cleaning because of his OCD.

So yeah I agree with you that WPA's are crappy but if people are using it for range time, don't mind the mess (cleaning), and don't have contact issues (FTE or FTF). It's plain and simple why people won't agree with you: it's inexpensive ammo and more bang for their budgeted buck.

I went splits on 1K rounds for the sake of justifying the $9 parking and $12 entrance fee. I didn't want to walk away again empty-handed and since my local shops in SD don't carry WPA, chances are I won't see them it again until July when Crossroads comes back. Would I buy again? Not sure yet. No problems so far so chances are "likely".

Just my 2-pennies.

missiontrails
05-25-2011, 6:07 PM
Exactly.


Bottom line... If your gun wont run wolf, something wrong with it. Now, maybe you just dont like running steal through your gun... fine, whatever... But, if it wont run Wolf, you should ditch it.

OMG... didn't you say you have an AK? I will look up Colt's customer service number, and you can personally call them and tell them their 6940's are POS's because the gas ports are not drilled large enough to handle the WEAK Wolf and Tula .223 ammo pressures in their 5.56 NATO stamped barrels.

Drivedabizness
05-25-2011, 6:31 PM
I know a guide who carries a .223 bolt gun for coyotes at all times. Wolf ammo is all he uses and I've seen him nail a running dog at 400 yards...

NorCalDustin
05-25-2011, 6:40 PM
OMG... didn't you say you have an AK? I will look up Colt's customer service number, and you can personally call them and tell them their 6940's are POS's because the gas ports are not drilled large enough to handle the WEAK Wolf and Tula .223 ammo pressures in their 5.56 NATO stamped barrels.
I do own an AK which runs everything I feed it...

I have several AR's, which run everything I feed them...

The only upper that I ever had an issue with I sent back to the manufacture and told them it would not run wolf. They admitted it was a problem and fixed it for me.

If I had a Colt 6940, I'd expect that it run anything and everything I wanted to run through it, or the manufacture to fix it.

missiontrails
05-25-2011, 6:43 PM
I know a guide who carries a .223 bolt gun for coyotes at all times. Wolf ammo is all he uses and I've seen him nail a running dog at 400 yards...

I hope so.... it's a .223. and it's optimized for .223 ammo.

Cali-Shooter
05-25-2011, 6:47 PM
VR3fi1wCSmM

cmace22
05-25-2011, 6:50 PM
Wow, the retardation in this thread is strong. I love how no one noticed that the OP is using a 14.5" MIDLENGTH gas system nor did he state what weight buffer he running. The midlength 14.5" is inherently undergassed, this is done purposely to make a very soft shooting platform and many companies who make them put a disclaimer to only use full powered ammo because the 14.5" middy barrel intentionally undergassed. Hence underpowered wolf ammo(Wolf is underpowered, any who says otherwise is an idiot.) + 14.5" middy gas system + heavy buffer = problems. Either lower your buffer weight or start using ammo the gas system was designed for. Or conversely, START READING THE INSTRUCTIONS.

There is nothing wrong with the OPs gun. There is nothing wrong with wolf ammo as long as you use it how its intended to be used(read cheap plinking ammo).


I did not know that. Thanks for the info.

Is it just the port size thats different from a 16" or is it a product of the shorter barrel?

missiontrails
05-25-2011, 6:51 PM
I do own an AK which runs everything I feed it...

I have several AR's, which run everything I feed them...

The only upper that I ever had an issue with I sent back to the manufacture and told them it would not run wolf. They admitted it was a problem and fixed it for me.

If I had a Colt 6940, I'd expect that it run anything and everything I wanted to run through it, or the manufacture to fix it.

So even though you have applied NO logic yet... Are you saying that all 5.56 chambered AR's SHOULD be over-gased by the manufacturers? I had an over gased CMMG carbine before that would eat anything... but I had to run a 9mm 5.2oz buffer in it to calm it down with 5.56 rounds. Personally, I would rather have the Colt or other 5.56 rifle correctly gased to shoot smooth with 5.56. There is a lot of good .223 ammo out there that has a higher pressure "boom".... but wolf ain't it. Hell, my Ruger SR-556 came from the factory set at gas setting #2 (1 being the lowest, and 3 the highest), and Herters cycled poorly on 2, once I set it to "3", it cycled correctly....... and made a sticky mess out of my piston.

Norcal.... you should educate yourself instead of making stupid "general" statements.

NorCalDustin
05-25-2011, 7:36 PM
So even though you have applied NO logic yet... Are you saying that all 5.56 chambered AR's SHOULD be over-gased by the manufacturers? I had an over gased CMMG carbine before that would eat anything... but I had to run a 9mm 5.2oz buffer in it to calm it down with 5.56 rounds. Personally, I would rather have the Colt or other 5.56 rifle correctly gased to shoot smooth with 5.56. There is a lot of good .223 ammo out there that has a higher pressure "boom".... but wolf ain't it. Hell, my Ruger SR-556 came from the factory set at gas setting #2 (1 being the lowest, and 3 the highest), and Herters cycled poorly on 2, once I set it to "3", it cycled correctly....... and made a sticky mess out of my piston.

Norcal.... you should educate yourself instead of making stupid "general" statements.

If a manufacturer does not specifically say that the gun will only run 5.56, or that only 5.56 should be run, or that it will not run xyz, then it should by default run .223/5.56.


Dimensionally they are almost identical, the main difference is the pressures. From what I remember, according to SAAMI... .223 is rated for a max of 50k CUP while 5.56 is rated for a max of something like 60k CUP. These are maximum ratings... It does not mean that such pressures will actually be exerted.

As far as there not being a sufficient amount of pressure with Wolf... With the exception of one case, uppers from company's like Daniel Defense, Rock River Arms, BCM, Del-ton, Noveske, CMMG, Bushmaster, and so on.... Seem to work just fine running Wolf and other steal cased ammo.

Now, If your saying those company's are all doing something wrong... Then, ok... You dont have to buy a product that run's Wolf.

Maybe you can call up manufacture's ahead of time and ask if their guns run Wolf or not and find yourself what I would consider to be a broken gun... Then go ahead.

Myself and others tend to like to own guns that will run anything and everything we feed them. When there are "ammo shortages" in my area I tend to still see Wolf available but hear these excuses:

Oh, I dont run Wolf... It might scratch up my brass deflector... ---You're going to scratch up the external finish on the gun sooner or later... Look at the location where you charging handle locks in..
Wolf?! That stuff makes a mess and I'd actually have to clean my gun!! I dont use that cr@p! ---Ok. I'll give you that... It does make a mess... Mostly due to the fact that steal does not expand like brass and does not give a tight seal and throws crap rearward. But it should still take you less than 10 minutes to clean anyways.
My gun doesn't run Wolf!! ---IMHO, You should send it back for repair.


I buy whatever is available at the time. Sometime it's Wolf, sometimes is some other brass cased ammo... Whatever is available.

You see, some of us actually shoot our guns in large volumes and as a result... When we walk into our local gun stores, buying 2-3 boxes of ammo isn't enough. We need to buy thousands of rounds at time. Usually that's PMC Bronze (.223), sometimes that's Wolf. Whats the price difference? About $50/1k in my local area.

Knife Edge
05-25-2011, 7:47 PM
I know a guide who carries a .223 bolt gun for coyotes at all times. Wolf ammo is all he uses and I've seen him nail a running dog at 400 yards...

Bullwolf....

Scutler
05-25-2011, 8:42 PM
Watch the youtube link I posted.

Seiran
05-25-2011, 9:12 PM
I hate these threads and really don't think that I should contribute.....BUT

My Noveske N4 (lowpro recce to be exact) eats up Tula at all my 3 gun matches. It's been over six hundred rounds now and there hasn't been a failure of any kind. This is with all the running and controlled pairs, but never a hiccup. So, I am content with my $180/1000 ammo.

Where are you ordering Tula for $180/1000? Would rather pay that than the $230 I was quoted from another place.

jonzer77
05-25-2011, 10:25 PM
agreed..... in the last 7 days alone I have bought +1200 rounds of nice clean brass cased .223 reloads off the craigslist from people dumping it. not to mention 1000rnds of 9mm. Good ammo is out there, just gotta look for it and not settle for Wolf :eek:

I wont ever shoot someone else's reloads in my guns.

Markus
05-26-2011, 2:44 AM
I wont ever shoot someone else's reloads in my guns.

this +1000000000

The correct answer is to pull them and use the parts to roll your own....

stitchnicklas
05-31-2011, 11:02 PM
steel case .223 sucks monkey sweat

straykiller
06-01-2011, 3:17 AM
never had a problem

Ryan in SD
06-01-2011, 4:51 AM
Whats up with all these troll threads in the rifle section?

If your gun can't use new production ammo like wolf then it's your guns configuration. If you fail to accept that, then please, keep it to yourself.

Noxx
06-01-2011, 4:56 AM
So now you're a cheapskate if your gun can run Russian ammo??? Goodness....

I'm alright with that. My AK eats the stuff like jelly beans.

MrPlink
06-01-2011, 4:56 AM
food for thought:
if it wasnt for D.I. systems, would this debate be that heated?