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View Full Version : Sealed Magwell = legal right? Then why


ARRRR-15
12-04-2006, 10:05 PM
can't you flip open the upper and just drop another mag in from the top? Would this make an AW? I mean you still have to open the top to load.

Joe
12-04-2006, 10:09 PM
Good question, others will chime in here.

tagged

SemiAutoSam
12-04-2006, 10:09 PM
This would not work in a stock AR15.

As the bolt carrier hold open device gets in the way of a mag being able to be taken in and out from the top.

and even if it were removed the mag would have to be of a design that was not curved at all and had no obstructions on the base.

Other than that it should work.

As I have experimented with this plan.

can't you flip open the upper and just drop another mag in from the top? Would this make an AW? I mean you still have to open the top to load.

MonsterMan
12-04-2006, 10:11 PM
can't you flip open the upper and just drop another mag in from the top? Would this make an AW? I mean you still have to open the top to load.

You would have to remove your bolt catch. The mag that you would drop in would most likely be a 9 round or less straight body mag. But yeah, you could probably get away with that.

A 'detachable' mag is a mag that can be released in normal operation with out the use of a tool. I would say that having to flip it open is not considered normal operation.

I don't know though. Let some of the members who know a little bit more chime in. I am just guessing.

MM

ARRRR-15
12-04-2006, 10:19 PM
If this would be legal, then I could just drill out the rivet on my fab-10 and be able to pull the mag in and out(there's no bolt catch to get in the way). Would this make my fab-10 illegal? Are evans colts fixed with a rivet as well as a closed off magwell?

Has anybody taken a fab-10 mag out? I want to know if its a complete mag or not.

SemiAutoSam
12-04-2006, 10:21 PM
Your forgetting one critical element HE has a IC Letter.

If this would be legal, then I could just drill out the rivet on my fab-10 and be able to pull the mag in and out(there's no bolt catch to get in the way). Would this make my fab-10 illegal? Are Evans colts fixed with a rivet as well as a closed off magwell?

Has anybody taken a fab-10 mag out? I want to know if its a complete mag or not.

metalhead357
12-05-2006, 12:10 AM
Other than the bolt catch I dont know why it couldn't work; Would almost make it as a true "en bloc" as in the Garand type feeding mechanism. Somebody design a stout bottom /housing even for the mag to drop in and sit even more snugley and I think we'd DEFINITELY have hit the jackpot with a Non AW top feed enbloc system.

Good thinking;)

anotherone
12-05-2006, 12:23 AM
This was legal before the change in regs (which still hasn't officially happened) and to the best of my knowledge will continue to be legal if the new regs are implemented. Opening the recievers should fall under the new definition as requiring "the action to be disassembled". Likewise a fixed magazine that could not be released without opening the recievers would therefore also be lawful.

gose
12-05-2006, 12:27 AM
Breaking open an AR doesnt take a tool and if you can remove the magazine by only breaking it open, dont you have a magazine that is removable without a tool or disassembling the action?

Might not qualify as 'readily' removable though...

tenpercentfirearms
12-05-2006, 6:39 AM
Disassembly of the action has not been defined and pulling the rear pin may not be recognized as disassembly of the action. :rolleyes:

ARRRR-15
12-05-2006, 8:50 AM
What's the point of a bolt catch on a fix mag rifle anyways? You would have to close the bolt evertime just to open the receiver. That one less step if it's deactivated.

All you need is a inset mag release button that uses a small tool or bullet tip to release the mag.

Stanze
12-05-2006, 9:35 AM
Has anybody taken a fab-10 mag out? I want to know if its a complete mag or not.

My buddy did, it's a mag body with no bottom tabs for a floor plate and a spring and follower, I don't see how you'd be able to make a FAB-10 a top detachable mag that wouldn't be a major PIA to load and it may have questionable reliability. And, as others have mentioned, the bolt catch gets in the way if your FAB-10 is so equipped(Some didn't have the bolt catch, nor was the receiver machined for one).

Aluisious
12-05-2006, 9:37 AM
What's the point of a bolt catch on a fix mag rifle anyways? You would have to close the bolt evertime just to open the receiver. That one less step if it's deactivated.

All you need is a inset mag release button that uses a small tool or bullet tip to release the mag.
I really fail to see the point of detaching the mag once it is already exposed and the action is hinged open.

May as well just use the one that's already stuck in there at that point.

ARRRR-15
12-05-2006, 10:13 AM
I really fail to see the point of detaching the mag once it is already exposed and the action is hinged open.

May as well just use the one that's already stuck in there at that point.


Because you can have 5-10 mags already loaded. All you do is flip open the top, pull out the mag and drop a new one in. This would be faster then loading them one at a time and even lining up a stripper clip and sliding them in.

ARRRR-15
12-05-2006, 10:18 AM
My buddy did, it's a mag body with no bottom tabs for a floor plate and a spring and follower, I don't see how you'd be able to make a FAB-10 a top detachable mag that wouldn't be a major PIA to load and it may have questionable reliability. And, as others have mentioned, the bolt catch gets in the way if your FAB-10 is so equipped(Some didn't have the bolt catch, nor was the receiver machined for one).


Ok. so there will not be enough room to drop a mag in anyways. Mine does not have the bolt catch nor has been machined to acept one.

Again, you don't need the bolt catch with a fix mag rife. Just take it out.

Stanze
12-05-2006, 10:28 AM
Again, you don't need the bolt catch with a fix mag rife. Just take it out.

You probably don't need lots of things on a firearm, however I like the 'sound' my fixed mag rifle makes when it's empty, tells me it's time to reload and not squeeze off a "round" on a empty chamber if the bolt-catch was not in place.:)

C.G.
12-05-2006, 12:28 PM
You probably don't need lots of things on a firearm, however I like the 'sound' my fixed mag rifle makes when it's empty, tells me it's time to reload and not squeeze off a "round" on a empty chamber if the bolt-catch was not in place.:)

Plus, some ranges will not allow a gun where the bolt is not open during cease fire, because then they have to inspect them everytime.

SemiAutoSam
12-05-2006, 12:32 PM
In that case just pull out the 10 round mag from the top about half way and let the bolt sit against it.

Would this show that the rifle is safe?


Plus, some ranges will not allow a gun where the bolt is not open during cease fire, because then they have to inspect them everytime.

Aluisious
12-05-2006, 12:37 PM
I'll be leaving my bolt catch in, for the aforementioned safety issue.

Stanze
12-05-2006, 12:44 PM
Plus, some ranges will not allow a gun where the bolt is not open during cease fire, because then they have to inspect them everytime.

Great point!:)

Regardless of configuration everyone should have some of these for the range.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=535054

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/2248/ccchambercheckmu3.jpg

jaymz
12-05-2006, 1:15 PM
Breaking open an AR doesnt take a tool and if you can remove the magazine by only breaking it open, dont you have a magazine that is removable without a tool or disassembling the action?

Might not qualify as 'readily' removable though...


What kind of AR do you have that doesn't require a "tool" to break open? Everyone that I've seen requires a tool (a bullet is considered a tool), unless it has an aftermarket extended take down pin installed.

ARRRR-15
12-05-2006, 1:22 PM
Well, I can use my finger to open mine. If I can then a LEO can as well.

JPglee1
12-05-2006, 1:36 PM
What kind of AR do you have that doesn't require a "tool" to break open? Everyone that I've seen requires a tool (a bullet is considered a tool), unless it has an aftermarket extended take down pin installed.

I can open both my ARs with just my fingers.


JP

SemiAutoSam
12-05-2006, 1:53 PM
I'm a Gemini So I might have a problem opening your AR.

HE HE HE :D

Well, I can use my finger to open mine. If I can then a LEO can as well.

stator
12-05-2006, 3:19 PM
can't you flip open the upper and just drop another mag in from the top? Would this make an AW? I mean you still have to open the top to load.

Unfortunately, the PC does not state a "detachable magazine of more than 10 rounds" but just states "detachable magazine":

12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.


The others have a fixed mag of 10 rounds or less which is why they have the DOJ letter.