PDA

View Full Version : Building a dedicated .22 AR


Nate87
05-16-2011, 7:27 PM
So I have the 5.56 and .308 AR's crossed off the list and now I want to build a dedicated .22lr AR. Thus far I've been running the CMMG Evo conversion out of my 5.56 rifle and love it! But now I want to go with a CMMG 1/16 barrel for the .22lr from Brownell's and build a separate rifle alltogether. Mostly for teaching new shooters/kids and for some cheap shooting. I've seen many members on this forum just buy a dedicated upper but since I already have a few lowers and stripped uppers lying around that i might as well build one and make it EXACTLY how i want it.

So far I have the stripped upper and lowers, grip, stock, and handguard. Just need the a lower parts kit and barrel. But I have a few questions:
1. I already have the bolt hold open actuator but I cant seem to get it to work as advertised and to lock back after the last round. I followed the instructions that were supplied and adjusted the tiny screw on it but still couldnt get it to work properly. I've searched different forums and followed the advice given but still nothing. Any ideas?
2. Has anyone ever HAD to change out their 22 barrel? From what I found from searching they seem to last a lifetime. But I'm curious if anyone has ever had to change it from being worn out, and if so, what was the round count? It's not uncommon to go through a few thousand rounds in a day every couple of days so the rifle will get some serious use.

I will be sure to post some photos and keep you all updated once i have all the parts in hand. Thanks in advance.

Nate

davek8s
05-16-2011, 8:52 PM
Should be a good project. I'm planning to do the same thing. I just traded for a complete lower. Can't wait to see your pictures

nrakid88
05-16-2011, 11:37 PM
I don't think a .22lr barrel can be worn out. The pressures are so low, and so is the velocity. Plus lead bullets are so soft. I have read it takes 300,000 rounds to burn a .22 barrel, but thats just internet info so its as good as . Don't worry about killing the barrel. Maybe if I get a registered lower when I move out of state I will kill a dedicated .22 upper before I die, but just maybe.

TheDeej
05-17-2011, 5:53 AM
What magazines are you using? I think the CMMG drop in BHOA is designed to work with a special follower on their "BHOA Magazines". They don't currently have these magazines available in the 10-round capacity. Dave (Shadow65) would have better info on the subject, you could try pm-ing him if he doesn't post here first.

shadow65
05-17-2011, 6:04 AM
You will never wear the .22 barrel out. If you want to change barrels, it's just like any AR. Built from AR parts. Standard barrel nut.

The biggest issue I have found with the function of the BHOA, assuming you are using BHOA mags, is the bolt catch spring tension.
The BHOA mag spring has to over come the BC spring.

You can use an O-ring over the bolt catch paddle to relieve some of the BC tension or you can clip 1 or 2 coils off the BC spring.
Mine has worked 100% since.
The new modular mags with the different 1 piece follower will overcome a lot of these problems.
Right now CMMG is in a transition from the old 10 round BHOA mags which were problamatic and discontinued, to get up and running on the new mags.
Just not happening as fast as they would like.

Another note on your project. You can buy the barrel and collar, using your bolt you already have.

Dave N

Nate87
05-17-2011, 6:54 AM
Thanks for the info gents. I'll keep trying to fudge with it a little more but if it continues to give me no joy, I'll look into using the O-ring method or clipping some coils off the BC spring as Shadow mentioned. I will be ordering the barrel today and had planned on using the bolt I already have and just swap the chamber adapter. A few weeks ago when I got the CMMG evo conversion I was bummed to see the NEWER fancy CMMG India kit on this forum and was kinda bummed I did'nt get that instead. It's not really going to matter now since I'll be using a different barrel/chamber adapter that comes with the barrel.

As was stated, being able to swap out barrels is a plus. I've already gotten grief from my brother for wanting to build a 22 AR thats going to cost more than what many AR's cost regularly but its being built the way I want it and I'll always have the option to swap barrels and bolt and be back in action in a different caliber.

shadow65
05-17-2011, 9:32 AM
CMMG tells me 6.5" .22 barrels are being turned next week.
Dave N

G1500
05-17-2011, 10:12 AM
What magazines are you using? I think the CMMG drop in BHOA is designed to work with a special follower on their "BHOA Magazines". They don't currently have these magazines available in the 10-round capacity. Dave (Shadow65) would have better info on the subject, you could try pm-ing him if he doesn't post here first.

They do make BHOA magazines in 10 round versions. I was able to get them to work with the BHOA, but the CMMG BHOA device only works with the CMMG magazines.

I had purchased a bunch of black dog magazines, and they did not work with the BHOA.

http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/large/737/737227.jpg (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=737227)

http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/large/866/866746.jpg (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=866746)

The black dog magazines are way cheaper, and seem to work better for me. They are also built better in my opinion.

davek8s
05-17-2011, 10:16 AM
CMMG tells me 6.5" .22 barrels are being turned next week.
Dave N

That's what I'm talk'n bout! Can't wait for CMMG to put out a rimfire pistol upper

nrakid88
05-18-2011, 11:29 AM
CMMG tells me 6.5" .22 barrels are being turned next week.
Dave N

WOOT WOOT WOOT.

Now I just need the cash for my 11.5 5.56, 7.3 9mm, and I can pick up this slick 6.5 .22

Thank god I have one day of college left, money here I come

shadow65
05-18-2011, 2:44 PM
They do make BHOA magazines in 10 round versions. I was able to get them to work with the BHOA, but the CMMG BHOA device only works with the CMMG magazines.

I had purchased a bunch of black dog magazines, and they did not work.

http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/large/737/737227.jpg (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=737227)

http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/large/866/866746.jpg (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=866746)

The black dog magazines are way cheaper, and seem to work better for me. They are also built better in my opinion.

BDM's Cheaper? You are buying them in the wrong place. The BHOA's are higher, but then it's a different mag and follower. New mags will be coming out soon. Modular with metal feed tower and ramps.

BDM's better built? Well I have both and I disagree.

The BDM mags can be modded to work with the BHOA followers so long as the BDM feed channel is able to be smoothed out. Some mags have imperfections inside the channel. No problem with the BDM followers. The CMMG BHOA followers have a spring loaded tail that will get hung up.
I also had problems with the thickness of the feed tower.
Too much to mod for me.

The 10 round CMMG mags can easily be modded for the current BHOA follower.
A 45 degree angle needs to be filed at the rear/back of the feed tower. Theis is where the BHOA follower pops up. An old style(round) high cap spring is used-trimmed down about 1/4.
I have done this with 10 and 15 round standard mags with success.

G1500
05-18-2011, 3:05 PM
BDM's Cheaper? You are buying them in the wrong place. The BHOA's are higher, but then it's a different mag and follower. New mags will be coming out soon. Modular with metal feed tower and ramps.

BDM's better built? Well I have both and I disagree.

The BDM mags can be modded to work with the BHOA followers so long as the BDM feed channel is able to be smoothed out. Some mags have imperfections inside the channel. No problem with the BDM followers. The CMMG BHOA followers have a spring loaded tail that will get hung up.
I also had problems with the thickness of the feed tower.
Too much to mod for me.

The 10 round CMMG mags can easily be modded for the current BHOA follower.
A 45 degree angle needs to be filed at the rear/back of the feed tower. Theis is where the BHOA follower pops up. An old style(round) high cap spring is used-trimmed down about 1/4.
I have done this with 10 and 15 round standard mags with success.

The 10 round BDMs are $11.99, the cheapest I found the 10 round CMMG mags were ~$17, and the BHOA mags were more, around 27 bucks, but like you said, they are different. I am not saying that is the best price around, but that is the best I have found them.

The CMMG mags didn't fit well at first and I had to file down the tabs. I understand this is by design from CMMG to fit larger mag wells. The CMMG mags also seemed not to seat correctly. The BDMs I got fit and seat perfectly, and are backed with a warranty. I have heard the BDMs crack around the feed lips, but so far mine have had no problems.

I understand the BDMs are a PAIN to get to work with the BHOA insert, but I just pull it out put in a new magazine and rack the charging handle. I would like to have the bolt stay open, but I didn't really bother trying to get the BDMs to work.

I guess we both have had different experiences with the magazines. I personally like how the CMMG mags look better than the BDM, but so far I have enjoyed the BDMs better, and the 3 other people I have talked to like them better as well. But I guess everyone has different opinions.

If you have any information on how to modify the BDMs to hold the bolt open, or know where I can find a write up, I would really appreciate the information. The channels of my magazines are smooth inside as well.

If the new mags are going to have metal feed lips, this may be a good change for CMMG. But for now, I will just stick with the BDMs.

762.DEFENSE
05-18-2011, 3:20 PM
If I were you, I'd invest in lots of blackdog magazines. They're the only ones that I've found that work for me all the time, everytime. The sierra mags that come with CMMG rifles didn't do it for me.

The complete CMMG rifles they sell at Mark's Armory are the best prices I've found so far with what they come with. Check them out, plus they're a CGN supporter.

shadow65
05-18-2011, 3:56 PM
I'll find the mod info and try to post it for the BDM mags.
If I use the BDM's, I just pull the BHOA out first.
If you have 10 round CMMG mags that had problems, contact CMMG. They also have a warranty. Some had some issues and 10 round mags were discontinued. I talked them into tweaking the machinery and producing 5000 10 round standard mags until the new modular mags are released.

shadow65
05-18-2011, 4:02 PM
Here you go:
http://http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=2&f=145&t=195618

NorCalDustin
05-18-2011, 4:25 PM
Here you go:
http://http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=2&f=145&t=195618

Something odd happened with that link, here's the fixed one:
http://ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=2&f=145&t=195618

shadow65
05-18-2011, 4:30 PM
it has two HTTP's
Thanks Dustin

Nate87
05-28-2011, 1:39 PM
Sooo I've gathered all the parts for my build now. They are as follows:

JD Machine stripped lower
JD Machine stripped uppper
LWRC LPK
Magpul ACS stock
Magpul Miad grip
CMMG Evo conversion
CMMG 1/16 twist 22LR barrel w/ A2 flash hider
Midwest Industries 9"/12" railed handguards(not sure which one I'll go with. Probably 9"
Then a bunch of miscellaneous parts that I had extra lying around like VFGs, Norgon Amibi-Catch, lights and such.

Now, before I assemble it all I'm going to get it Ceracoated in flat dark earth. I've seen a few examples one here and I like the way it looks.

One thing that I came across while I was waiting to pick up my lower was that I was having trouble with feeding some round with the dedicated barrel and upper. I assembled the upper while my lower was in jail and just slapped the upper onto an existing lower of mine. The barrel came with it's own chamber adaptor so you have to take off the chamber adaptor thats for the conversion and replace it with the chamber adaptor thats for the dedicated barrel. I did that and when trying to cycle soft nose/lead rounds it just jams(FTF) with the dedicated upper but does'nt jam with the converted upper and I dont know why? ANY IDEAS?!

I even tried polishing the feed ramp as suggested by some but that didnt solve the problem. It seems as if it's too much of an angle entering the chamber for the soft rounds. They just tweek and fail to feed. If I ride the bolt home slowly they enter with out issue but that's not how its supposed to work. I know there is a different chamber adaptor offered for the dedicated barrel thats stainless steel as opposed to the stock blued steel. Does anyone have any experience with these or with this problem at all? Any advice would be appreciated? Is there a mod that can be done to help it feed better by reshaping the ramp or something along those lines?

Nate

shadow65
05-30-2011, 1:09 PM
If the collar is installed correctly, there shouldn't be any feeding issues. Make sure the collar is snapped onto the rail all the way.
If you are trying to feed something like Remington, you will have problems.
Feed it some Winchester or Federal 36 gr. copper washed ammo from Walmart. CCI Mini Mags are also good for break in.
I have 12K through mine now and it will feed Remingtons, but not at first. The bullet profile is slightly different.
Also, slow hand cycling is not good to find out if a round will chamber.

One of the best things you can do, especially to a new upper, is buzz the chamber. Chuck a bore brush in a drill with some oil and run in the chamber until warm. This cleans out any crud and polishes the chamber.
Dave N

Cokebottle
05-30-2011, 1:25 PM
The biggest issue I have found with the function of the BHOA, assuming you are using BHOA mags, is the bolt catch spring tension.
The BHOA mag spring has to over come the BC spring.

You can use an O-ring over the bolt catch paddle to relieve some of the BC tension or you can clip 1 or 2 coils off the BC spring.
Mine has worked 100% since.
Are you saying that the bolt should remain open after magazine removal?

I have a new CMMG Evo upper (complete, not the conversion, the barrel extension will not chamber a 5.56) and the BDM magazines.
The bolt locks back on the last round so I won't dry-fire, but when the magazine is removed, the bolt slams closed.

I don't see any mechanism for the mags to actuate the lower's BHO, and, though I'd have to check again, even manually holding the BHO in will not lock the bolt back. It's a completely different BCG from the 5.56 or "conversion" parts.

And yes... it is a standard AR upper, though the dust cover is trimmed to clear the plastic brass deflector. No gas tube, I assume the barrel is not drilled for a gas block.

Cokebottle
05-30-2011, 1:29 PM
If I were you, I'd invest in lots of blackdog magazines. They're the only ones that I've found that work for me all the time, everytime. The sierra mags that come with CMMG rifles didn't do it for me.
Bought my CMMG from Riflegear and it came with a BDM mag (or mags, I don't remember... I have 5 mags and I don't remember if I bought 3 or 4 with the upper).

Cokebottle
05-30-2011, 1:37 PM
If you are trying to feed something like Remington, you will have problems.
+10,000,000

I have 5000 rounds of Thunderbolt 22 that are worthless.
Maybe 2 out of every 10 rounds won't even go into the chamber, and 5 out of 10 won't feed all the way in.

Bought some 555 and I have not had a problem with any of them feeding.

Now the Thunderbolt? I figured "Okay, the CMMG upper is picky, I'll get something else to shoot them out of"
Bought a Heritage 9-shot revolver, and damned if at least 25% of the things don't even want to go into the cylinder! Most are "tight", some take a fair amount of force, and some flat out won't go in.

shadow65
05-30-2011, 2:47 PM
Bought my CMMG from Riflegear and it came with a BDM mag (or mags, I don't remember... I have 5 mags and I don't remember if I bought 3 or 4 with the upper).

BDM mags will work fine, but they will not operate a BHOA.
Guys that have problems with the CMMG mags is usually because they failed to adjust the tabs on the back. There was a run of mags that had defects in the channels. That is when the 10 round mags were discontinued.
I recently asked that some more 10 round mags be made for the CA guys. They made 5000.

The bolt will not stay locked back without the BHOA and mags.
It will stay locked back using the BHOA if you manually lock it back.
Dave N

Cokebottle
05-30-2011, 3:25 PM
Okay, sounds like the BHOA is what I don't have.

The only thing in my upper is this:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=100240&stc=1&d=1306797928

I double checked it by hitting the bolt catch and the bolt does kinda lock back....
It doesn't lock back all the way, it catches on the rear of the BCG so it holds the bolt face maybe 1/8" or 1/4" away from the chamber.

shadow65
05-30-2011, 5:01 PM
You can always drop in the BHOA. The new mags are supposed to be out next month. We will see.

Cokebottle
05-30-2011, 5:10 PM
You can always drop in the BHOA. The new mags are supposed to be out next month. We will see.
It's not a big deal. I was just wondering if I was missing something.
The BDM mags hold the bolt back until they are removed, which prevents an inattentive shooter from dry-firing after the last round is gone.

The only reason that I would want it is I store my ARs with the bolt locked back and a loaded mag inserted. If something goes "bump" in the night and my wife reaches for one of the ARs instead of her 92FS, she knows that all she needs to do is smack the BHO and take it off of safe.

KandyRedCoi
05-30-2011, 6:46 PM
i was contemplating of doing the same thing, since i have a stripped lower, but decided that i will just order a MP15-22 MOE and upgrading as i go...the lighter weight and better price point from the start is what ultimately sold me on it

plus most if not ALL AR-15 parts will fit on it as it sits

ive priced it out and this seems to be the most bang for the buck way...my .02

G1500
05-30-2011, 7:07 PM
i was contemplating of doing the same thing, since i have a stripped lower, but decided that i will just order a MP15-22 MOE and upgrading as i go...the lighter weight and better price point from the start is what ultimately sold me on it

plus most if not ALL AR-15 parts will fit on it as it sits

ive priced it out and this seems to be the most bang for the buck way...my .02

Something I don't like about the S&W is they it uses different magazines. I have a CMMG dedicated upper with 11 Black Dog Magazines. I plan on getting at least one conversion kit for other rifles/pistols, and it would be nice to switch the magazines between all of them instead of having to buy more magazines for the S&W.

KandyRedCoi
05-30-2011, 7:12 PM
^yes you are correct, for some this would be a deal breaker...how about the UMAREX/COLT model?

Nate87
05-30-2011, 7:59 PM
Okay, I was able to get it to work and cycle the soft noses/lead rounds. I think the problem was that the when i would pull the charging handle back, it would also pull the barral adaptor back which created a gap between the adaptor and the chamber which snagged the round on and made it not feed. So basically what I did once noticing what was going on I did a ghetto fix and put some spacers(quarters) between the back of the 22 blot carrior group and the buffer to prevent it from going backwards and causing the gap between the barrel adaptor and barrel from happening.

Once I put together the actual lower for the rifle, which was a matched set from JD Machine instead of a different lower from a different company, it worked and cycled the rounds perfectly. It made a tighter fit between the upper and lower which also prevented the bolt from traveling back and causing that gap. So now everything is working and cycling as it should. I took it out today and put CCI mini mags, 555 value pack, Remington gold pack, Winchester subsonics, and Viper hyper velocity through it without any issues or jams. In all I went through around 500 rounds off different variety and it worked well.

I'm happy with the rifle. Now that I know it works as it should, its time to take it apart and have it Ceracoated then reassembled and call it done. I will post photos when I get a chance to show the build and show when it is complete and how it turned out.

Nate87
08-01-2011, 9:06 PM
Its finally all done and by done I mean assembled and tested. Put around 500 rounds through it today of bulk Blaser and bulk Remington Gold. The only issues I had were with the mags. I was using CMMG BHOA mags. One of the mags wasn't feeding right and the follower was getting stuck halfway down the mag and needed a little banging to get it loose again.

The Ceracoat was done by Scott Solar in Chino. It turned out well. There is a LITTLE bit of a difference in shade in the FDE but nothing that'll keep me up at night like it does for some people.

My inspiration for this build was my brothers LWRC M6A2 TRICON. It just looks sweet with all the FDE on it. I know I could have bought a 22 rifle and saved some money instead of building one, but it came out EXACTLY the way i wanted it in every way and to me, thats worth the extra time and money. Up next is to shoot the piss out of it and then build some more uppers in different calibers to slap onto the lower. 300 Blackout is at the top of my list.

Parts used:
JD Macine stripped upper and lower
Midwest Industries 9" rail
CMMG dedicated 22lr barrel 1:16 twist
CMMG Stainless Steel EVO kit w/foward assist
CMMG dedicated charging handle
CMMG BHO adapter
CMMG BHOA magazines
LWRC Deluxe lower parts kit (enhanced fire control group, buffer tube/buffer spring/H2 buffer)
LWRC trigger gaurd
LWRC rail skins
A2 birdcage flash hider
KAC vertical foward grip
LMT iron sights
Magpul ACS stock
Magpul MIAD grip


http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w94/NateDogg8732/100_4728.jpg
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w94/NateDogg8732/100_4737.jpg
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w94/NateDogg8732/100_4738.jpg
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w94/NateDogg8732/100_4741.jpg
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w94/NateDogg8732/100_4750.jpg
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w94/NateDogg8732/100_4753.jpg

6doubleR
08-01-2011, 9:37 PM
Turned out great! Mind if I ask how much the total build ran you?

uxo2
08-01-2011, 9:39 PM
I just ordered two of these for a different aternative
to the CMMG BHO.

http://www.arcatch22.com/

Nate87
08-01-2011, 9:52 PM
Turned out great! Mind if I ask how much the total build ran you?

Right at the 1K mark. Many of the parts I already had laying around so that wasn't added to the cost. That's for what I bought and the cost of Ceracoat. Again, I know that's a lot for a 22 and that I could have bought two dedicated 22's for that price, but it came out EXACTLY the way I wanted and now have a good quality lower to put future uppers that I plan on building in different calibers on.

NorCalDustin
08-02-2011, 12:00 AM
Its finally all done and by done I mean assembled and tested. Put around 500 rounds through it today of bulk Blaser and bulk Remington Gold. The only issues I had were with the mags. I was using CMMG BHOA mags. One of the mags wasn't feeding right and the follower was getting stuck halfway down the mag and needed a little banging to get it loose again.
Thats a known issue with some of the 10rd BHO mags... CMMG says that it will be fixed with the 2nd Gen mags which are due to be released early this month (so any day now)...


Turned out great! Mind if I ask how much the total build ran you?
It can certainly be done for under $600 with a fully dedicated build... Less if you just swap uppers. I've done it twice ;)

But, Nate choose some very nice extras :D


Right at the 1K mark. Many of the parts I already had laying around so that wasn't added to the cost. That's for what I bought and the cost of Ceracoat. Again, I know that's a lot for a 22 and that I could have bought two dedicated 22's for that price, but it came out EXACTLY the way I wanted and now have a good quality lower to put future uppers that I plan on building in different calibers on.
Also remember that with that gun... Even though you put ~$1k into it... It will pay for itself within shooting what... 3-4k rounds of rimfire?

Just think of what 3-4k of .223/5.56 costs... If you shoot lots like me, it pays for itself very very quickly.

Ricky-Ray
08-02-2011, 12:53 AM
http://www.copesdistributing.net/product_info.php?cPath=101&products_id=2176

Anybody tried this 22 upper?

shadow65
08-02-2011, 6:27 AM
Most anyone I have talked to that ordered the Chiappa said it did ok, but eventually sold it.
For a little more, you can get a CMMG upper.
Contact me if you need one and I'll hook you up.
dave N

tba02
08-02-2011, 7:03 AM
http://www.copesdistributing.net/product_info.php?cPath=101&products_id=2176

Anybody tried this 22 upper?

I have one and it is working fine for me at ~ 2500 rounds.
They have some QC issues and there is a fair amount of flex in the polymer upper.

Here is mine with some comments. (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=447891) Since then, the carrier spring retainer started to loosen at the 1K mark. It has been posted that area can be a problem so I caught it, and added loctite when I tightened it back down.

http://www.midwesthuntersoutlet.com/item.aspx?PID=511534&w=PQ%2BJDyOLrQE%3D has a better deal than the one you posted.

Were I to do it again, I would go with CMMG. (I'll probably give mine to a buddy that has a son just getting into shooting).

Ricky-Ray
08-02-2011, 9:15 AM
shadow65 and tba02 thanks for the info. I think I will go with the CMMG upper instead.

tba02 - I clicked on your link so see your AR comments and I went with a Plum Crazy lower too.

tba02
08-02-2011, 9:26 AM
tba02 - I clicked on your link so see your AR comments and I went with a Plum Crazy lower too.
Depending ... you may need to contact PCMFG and ask them to send you a "blowback hammer". My original hammer was too wide. ~9 bucks and two days.