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View Full Version : Another "new" AR grip idea


Richieboy
12-01-2006, 4:29 PM
I was thinking about bolt action rifles and how the internal magazines are above the "action line." Then I got to thinking if you lowered the trigger on an AR receiver to where the "top of the exposed portion of the trigger" was under the magwell like on a bolt action, could you use a full pistol grip provided that the trigger could not be reached if the hand was placed below the *new* action line.

This picture is using an AIRSOFT plastic receiver and grip! It is not a full auto Colt, open magwell assault rifle; it is a toy(or was before it I hacked it up).
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c120/Richieboy-/Picture1131.jpg

I know its a poor photo but what do you think? Make a bracket that closes off the trigger cut-out and another one to extend the trigger. The way my hand lays comfortably the web of my hand is midway between the current and "new" action lines.

This is a "what do you think" thread. I have no plans on producing or attempting to produce anything like this.

Aluisious
12-01-2006, 4:30 PM
That looks like a great way to get arrested.

Ryan HBC
12-01-2006, 4:31 PM
Definately not a possibility.

Shane916
12-01-2006, 4:34 PM
That looks like a great way to get arrested.

hahaha! Funniest thing I've heard in a while :D

I can't knock you for effort on creating a new grip though :)

Crazed_SS
12-01-2006, 4:43 PM
Lame.

Richieboy
12-01-2006, 4:57 PM
Oh well :D

PanzerAce
12-01-2006, 4:59 PM
I dont see why you guys are so negative. It seems to me like it is a similar idea to the U-15, but moving the trigger rather than the grip.

Ryan HBC
12-01-2006, 5:02 PM
Yeah, it's kind of like the U-15 except it doesn't remove the pistol grip...........

blkA4alb
12-01-2006, 5:02 PM
Guys, it allows for a pistol style grasp and the web of the thumb can be placed below the upper line of the exposed trigger.

The magazine has nothing to do with it.

bwiese
12-01-2006, 5:10 PM
Guys, it allows for a pistol style grasp and the web of the thumb can be placed below the upper line of the exposed trigger.

Bingo.

Yes, it can be gripped (w/web of hand) above the trigger line. It can also be gripped below the line, a no-no.

Contrast this with the U15 stock, in which there is no possibility of gripping/grasping below the line.

Ryan HBC
12-01-2006, 5:10 PM
Wish I could say I came up with a better idea. I couldn't even come up with the gripless build that isn't gripless.

Richieboy
12-01-2006, 5:12 PM
Say you use a MM grip and cut the webbing off the back of it. The changed angle would make it very hard to reach the triger with the web below the action line.

Not removing the pistol grip may or may not be relevant...as defined by sb23 "web of trigger hand below action line" with this setup the hand is forced above the line(in order to fire the weapon). I havent seen anything in sb23 that specifically mentions # of fingers on the grip, just the thumb web.

^Im not stating this as fact or that it "should" be legal, this just a silly idea. As stated, Im not goin to and I hope no one else is going to try this on a firearm.

Aluisious
12-01-2006, 5:14 PM
Bingo.

Yes, it can be gripped (w/web of hand) above the trigger line. It can also be gripped below the line, a no-no.

Contrast this with the U15 stock, in which there is no possibility of gripping/grasping below the line.
U15 is awfully thumbholey isn't it?

bwiese
12-01-2006, 5:18 PM
Not removing the pistol grip may or may not be relevant...as defined by sb23 "web of trigger hand below action line" with this setup the hand is forced above the line (in order to fire the weapon). I havent seen anything in sb23 that specifically mentions # of fingers on the grip, just the thumb web.

Your expression is not relevant as you misquoted from some other source, and forgot to include the regulatory code definition that makes the actual standard of reference:

12276.1 PC:(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.


11 CCR 5469(d):
"pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon" means a grip that allows for a pistol style grasp in which the web of the trigger hand (between the thumb and index finger) can be placed below the top of the exposed portion of the trigger while firing.



There is no reference to 'action line'. Bottom line: you have to be able to keep the web of your hand above the exposed part of the trigger.

paradox
12-01-2006, 5:21 PM
Here's my bastardization:

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/3373/lowartrig2xt6.jpg

bwiese
12-01-2006, 5:22 PM
U15 is awfully thumbholey isn't it?

No. There is no hole. The buffer tube (true name: 'receiver extension') is not part of the stock. Furthermore, it's a pistol buffer tube and if the tube were regarded as a stock, it'd be a Federal NFA violation.

On the U15 you are grasping the outside of the stock. The presence or absence of the buffer tube does not change the stock, and a 'hole' is something totally enclosed.

NeoWeird
12-01-2006, 5:26 PM
U15 is awfully thumbholey isn't it?

Not really. You can get a grip on the stock, and remove your grip, without your thumb passing through or coming out of any portion of the stock. There is no point where a sectioned view of the stock would have part of your hand completely encircled in material, so no, it is not a thumbhole stock and not even close.

There is a LOT of misquoted material in here, so please be careful before trying stuff like this. I like the thinking outside the box, but this really is an impractical mod. First it makes putting your finger on the trigger very awkward looking, and at best it looks like your middle or ringe finger would make a better trigger finger than your index finger. Second, a bad weld, a broken screw, or whatever else holds the bracket onto the rifle fails and you are now a felon (and that's not even addressing the whole pistol grip aspect of it).

It was a good attempt, but it really isn't a good design in this regard.

NeoWeird
12-01-2006, 5:27 PM
Here's my bastardization:

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/3373/lowartrig2xt6.jpg

If you are going to do that, why not leave the trigger alone and then just add more material to the back and create a monstermanesque grip that uses the A2 grip and leave a little off the top and keep it open from the stock so it's not a thumbhole stock?

Q
12-01-2006, 5:48 PM
Here's my bastardization:

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/3373/lowartrig2xt6.jpg


YUK! :D

Richieboy
12-01-2006, 5:50 PM
Your expression is not relevant as you misquoted from some other source, and forgot to include the regulatory code definition that makes the actual standard of reference:

12276.1 PC:(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.


11 CCR 5469(d):
"pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon" means a grip that allows for a pistol style grasp in which the web of the trigger hand (between the thumb and index finger) can be placed below the top of the exposed portion of the trigger while firing.


Forgive my vague explanation, I should have quoted properly.

There is no reference to 'action line'. Bottom line: you have to be able to keep the web of your hand above the exposed part of the trigger.

The "action line" I was referring to was the imaginary line at the top of the exposed portion of the trigger. Therefore, by relocating the exposed part of the trigger (termed "action line") down, the web of the hand can be placed in a location above the (newly) exposed part of the trigger.

So if I went with a MM grip with the web cut off the back(essentially a PS with a greater rearward angle) it would make it much more difficult for the shooter to activate the trigger while having the web of his hand below the "exposed part of the trigger" line.

Fjold
12-01-2006, 7:04 PM
You could add an inch and half to the trigger and fill in the trigger guard area of the stock but the increased lever length of the trigger would give you a Glock like 1/2"-3/4" long trigger pull.

To make it shootable you would have to use a vertical transfer bar between the exposed trigger lever and the upper section that trips the sear. Basically making a double lever trigger which will slow your lock time dramatically.

Tunis
12-01-2006, 9:42 PM
i see where you're trying to go...but how about the internal parts?:confused:

Richieboy
12-01-2006, 10:24 PM
I had thought about the longer trigger pull. I think one of those high tech short pull triggers would give the shooter a 'stock' trigger feel. A simple extention would allow common parts to be used, and also allow the 'kit' to be removed without permanently modifying the trigger.

AJAX22
12-01-2006, 10:48 PM
not to hijack the thread, but this idea got me thinking.

what about relocating the pistol grip at a 90 degree angle to its current position and welding a spur on the trigger.

basicly a pistol grip that does not portrude Below the action, but to the side of the action.

its a thought anyway

paradox
12-02-2006, 6:31 AM
YUK! :D

Yup, but legal.

The big problem with this line of thought is that by dropping the trigger, you are now subverting the best thing about ARs: the interchangeability of parts, you will no longer be able to swap trigger units at will.

paradox
12-02-2006, 6:33 AM
not to hijack the thread, but this idea got me thinking.

what about relocating the pistol grip at a 90 degree angle to its current position and welding a spur on the trigger.

basicly a pistol grip that does not portrude Below the action, but to the side of the action.

its a thought anyway

Damn, I bet the DOJ didnít think that SB23 would lead to folks shooting rifles sideways gansta style.

Fjold
12-02-2006, 9:10 AM
not to hijack the thread, but this idea got me thinking.

what about relocating the pistol grip at a 90 degree angle to its current position and welding a spur on the trigger.

basicly a pistol grip that does not portrude Below the action, but to the side of the action.

its a thought anyway

You could attach a grip sticking out the right side of the receiver and add an extension to the trigger that attaches like the hammer spurs that are added to contender pistols so that they can be thumb cocked with a scope mounted. Coming up with a new trigger guard to attach to the existing holes in the frame and go out sideways to cover the trigger extension would have an interesting geometry.

Hmmmm? Interesting thinking.

hoffmang
12-02-2006, 12:59 PM
The gangsta grip has come up here before but probably 6 months ago. I'm pretty sure it was The_quark who posted it first.

-Gene