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View Full Version : LE Discount and then doing a PPT


Fundamentalz
05-12-2011, 12:04 PM
I was inquiring if I had a friend that was a LEO would he be able to buy a gun under a LE discount the do a PPT to me right away???

CSACANNONEER
05-12-2011, 12:08 PM
A store's LEO discount? Or, are you talking about a firearm which has been "discounted" because, no excise taxes have been paid on it (like a blue box Glock)? The first should be OK. The second could be seen as a way to evade paying a tax. Do you really want to mess with both state and federal revenuers?

Will Goes Boing
05-12-2011, 12:12 PM
There is a small chance you could get your LEO friend in trouble.... all to save 10% at most? How cheap can you be... not to mention inconsiderate. It's one of those things where you CAN do it but it's along the lines of being unethical.

Fundamentalz
05-12-2011, 12:24 PM
A store's LEO discount? Or, are you talking about a firearm which has been "discounted" because, no excise taxes have been paid on it (like a blue box Glock)? The first should be OK. The second could be seen as a way to evade paying a tax. Do you really want to mess with both state and federal revenuers?

Yes, I was talking about the LEO store discount. Thanks that was useful.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is a small chance you could get your LEO friend in trouble.... all to save 10% at most? How cheap can you be... not to mention inconsiderate. It's one of those things where you CAN do it but it's along the lines of being unethical.


What would b the situation where I would get him in trouble??? And to answer ur question this is a present that me and my friend are trying to get as a birthday present for some one else really, so if we can save the money y not.

TRICKSTER
05-12-2011, 12:32 PM
Avoiding the 10 day wait and getting the LEO discount requires a letter from the department. Most of these state that the LEO is purchasing the weapon for duty/off duty use. If your friends department is like this he stands the chance of getting in trouble for lying to his department as he is not purchasing the firearm for his own use. A real friend would not put someone in this situation.

LEO's used to be exempt from the waiting period and all you had to do is show your LEO ID and walk out with the gun the same day.
It was activity like you are asking about that caused us to lose this benefit.

FLIGHT762
05-12-2011, 12:35 PM
What would b the situation where I would get him in trouble??? And to answer ur question this is a present that me and my friend are trying to get as a birthday present for some one else really, so if we can save the money y not.[/QUOTE]

Did I read this correctly?

Fundamentalz
05-12-2011, 12:40 PM
I c what u guys mean by getting him in trouble or what not. Thanks for the inside information guy. I will reconsider that.

Ohhh, by the way my friend is a paramedic not an officer and never purchased a weapon before if you guys are wondering why we would be so uninformed about this, so all of you LEOs thanks for baring with my lack of knowledge.

FLIGHT762
05-12-2011, 12:44 PM
Get your birthday friend a gift certificate from the gun shop for the cost of the gun and let him/her do the DROS in their name. That's the way to handle it.
Happy Birthday to them!

FLIGHT762
05-12-2011, 1:19 PM
When I suggested this to you I was trying to keep you and your L/E friend from committing a crime. It sounded to me you were conspiring to a straw sale(purchasing a gun for someone else). Did I mis-read?

CSACANNONEER
05-12-2011, 1:28 PM
When I suggested this to you I was trying to keep you and your L/E friend from committing a crime. It sounded to me you were conspiring to a straw sale(purchasing a gun for someone else). Did I mis-read?

No straw purchase was even hinted at. There is no law against a LEO or anyone else buying a firearm and then legally transfering it to someone else. In fact, the LEO could purchase the gun with the intention of GIVING it to the OP as a gift. This would not be a crime unless, the OP is a prohibited person. To support my claim, just look at a 4473. There is actually a box to check off if the gun is going to be a gift. So, if the LEO in question wanted to go through with this, there would not be any crime committed. It might or might not be against dept. policy but, there is NOTHING ILLEGAL implied by anyone in this thread except you.

FLIGHT762
05-12-2011, 1:37 PM
I must have mis-read what the O/P was asking. It sounded to me that the purchase was being made by the LEO (who was not the actual intended purchaser) and Immediately PPT'd to the O/P and then to a 3rd party(the birthday person), without the gift option. Just didn't want to see anyone do anything wrong.

Fundamentalz
05-12-2011, 1:48 PM
No straw purchase was even hinted at. There is no law against a LEO or anyone else buying a firearm and then legally transfering it to someone else. In fact, the LEO could purchase the gun with the intention of GIVING it to the OP as a gift. This would not be a crime unless, the OP is a prohibited person. To support my claim, just look at a 4473. There is actually a box to check off if the gun is going to be a gift. So, if the LEO in question wanted to go through with this, there would not be any crime committed. It might or might not be against dept. policy but, there is NOTHING ILLEGAL implied by anyone in this thread except you.

Wow, now that answers my question. CSACANNONEER you have been most helpful on this. Thanks for your time. You answered exactly what I wanted to know.

geeknow
05-12-2011, 1:51 PM
what gun are you looking to buy, anyway?

Fundamentalz
05-12-2011, 2:02 PM
We were looking P226. The deal that the LE discount provides is one hell of a deal at 609 with 3 mags, night sights, chamber lock, case, and a 50 gift certificate.

Zerker
05-12-2011, 2:05 PM
Isnt one of the questions they ask "are you buying this firearm for yourself or someone else"

geeknow
05-12-2011, 2:07 PM
We were looking P226. The deal that the LE discount provides is one hell of a deal at 609 with 3 mags, night sights, chamber lock, case, and a 50 gift certificate.

Do you feel that you've earned the benefit that you are looking to receive?

I guess, in answer to your question, what you want to do is legal. I doubt though, that if you explained what you wanted to do to the store in question, that they would approve.

I am curious as to your feelings on the subject.

CSACANNONEER
05-12-2011, 2:31 PM
Isnt one of the questions they ask "are you buying this firearm for yourself or someone else"

Yep. But, there is also a question about buying for a gift. Since California requires that even gifted handguns be transfered through a FFL, there no way that it would be a straw purchase. If it was, just think of all the moms, dads, husbands, wives, etc. who would be criminals for buying their family members gifts.

Fundamentalz
05-12-2011, 2:34 PM
Do you feel that you've earned the benefit that you are looking to receive?

I guess, in answer to your question, what you want to do is legal. I doubt though, that if you explained what you wanted to do to the store in question, that they would approve.

I am curious as to your feelings on the subject.

To tell you the truth if it's gonna be troublesome I'd rather not deal with it. My friend (the paramedic) decided this and I'm just going along. I'm not rich or made of money so of course I would love to save a buck or two.

So for all of you asking the morality questions I hope it answers it for you guys on my case. It's not for me or my idea but I do think it will be a gift that is worth while.

Fundamentalz
05-12-2011, 2:38 PM
Isnt one of the questions they ask "are you buying this firearm for yourself or someone else"

I'm not sure how it goes down or what additional forms you have to fill outm so can you tell me?

CSACANNONEER
05-12-2011, 5:28 PM
Do you feel that you've earned the benefit that you are looking to receive?

I guess, in answer to your question, what you want to do is legal. I doubt though, that if you explained what you wanted to do to the store in question, that they would approve.

I am curious as to your feelings on the subject.

The first responder and the OP are both contributing towards the purchase for a third party. So, should the OP tell his buddy not to accept the discount that the store is offering him just because the OP is paying for a portion of the purchase? While I see what you are getting at, I think the paramedic is qualified to accept the stores discount and, since there can only be one purchaser, why not use the store's discount?

yzernie
05-12-2011, 7:30 PM
Sig has very strict rules about this type of thing. But, if your friend is willing to risk his lifetime discounts at Sig........

1_Grendel
05-12-2011, 8:37 PM
No straw purchase was even hinted at. There is no law against a LEO or anyone else buying a firearm and then legally transfering it to someone else. In fact, the LEO could purchase the gun with the intention of GIVING it to the OP as a gift. This would not be a crime unless, the OP is a prohibited person. To support my claim, just look at a 4473. There is actually a box to check off if the gun is going to be a gift. So, if the LEO in question wanted to go through with this, there would not be any crime committed. It might or might not be against dept. policy but, there is NOTHING ILLEGAL implied by anyone in this thread except you.

At least a few have it right.

OP your plan is good 2 go. I would bet that your LEO friend has other LEO friends that have done what you are speaking of.

The problem here is not legal; the gun has to be PPTed to the intended recipient.

The original recipient of the gun will have to wait the 10 days once your LEO friend gifts the gun in the PPT process.

You must have a good friend for such a special gift.

edited spelling

solanoshooter
05-12-2011, 9:06 PM
Just a thought. If it's a LE packaged Sig, the 3 mags included are likely hi-caps.

rugershooter
05-12-2011, 11:52 PM
Just a thought. If it's a LE packaged Sig, the 3 mags included are likely hi-caps.

Have the dealer or LEO take them apart and now you've got rebuild kits for when hi caps are legal.

JeffM
05-13-2011, 12:07 AM
this is a present that me and my friend are trying to get as a birthday present for some one else really

Without that info up front it would look like a LEO taking advantage of the FFL. I would make a phone call to the department to inform his superiors that the officer's actions are reflecting poorly on the department and profession.

With that info up front, it would be up to the dealer to give the discount or not.

Buying a gun as a gift is fine, being a cheap a**hole while doing so it is not.

JeffM
05-13-2011, 12:09 AM
And yes, LEO only guns are FET exempt. Purchasing one using LE credentials for someone who is not LE definitely looks like tax evasion.

retired
05-13-2011, 12:09 AM
Have the dealer or LEO take them apart and now you've got rebuild kits for when hi caps are legal.

First of all, for those (not only you rugershooter) who keep calling the friend a leo he is not a leo. The OP has already stated his friend is a paramedic.

Second, I cannot imagine that a gun shop that specializes in selling to first responders and who offers a discount on items to them, will go along with the suggestion to take the standard mags apart for rebuild kits. As soon as that is suggested, I would surmise the shop is going to immediately suspect something is amiss and the sale will be quashed. Also, a paramedic will not be allowed to buy standard capacity mags from the gun store, only a leo will.

Notorious
05-13-2011, 12:13 AM
I was going to say that... LE package guns come with standard caps but at ProForce, if the buyer is military or other qualified non-LEO, they give you the 10 rounder low-caps instead so you don't get in trouble.

JeffM
05-13-2011, 12:16 AM
First of all, for those (not only you rugershooter) who keep calling the friend a leo he is not a leo. The OP has already stated his friend is a paramedic.

Second, I cannot imagine that a gun shop that specializes in selling to first responders and who offers a discount on items to them, will go along with the suggestion to take the standard mags apart for rebuild kits. As soon as that is suggested, I would surmise the shop is going to immediately suspect something is amiss and the sale will be quashed. Also, a paramedic will not be allowed to buy standard capacity mags from the gun store, only a leo will.

Good catch. The OP should not have lied in the OP.

rugershooter
05-13-2011, 12:40 AM
I was inquiring if I had a friend that was a LEO would he be able to buy a gun under a LE discount the do a PPT to me right away???

First of all, for those (not only you rugershooter) who keep calling the friend a leo he is not a leo. The OP has already stated his friend is a paramedic.

Second, I cannot imagine that a gun shop that specializes in selling to first responders and who offers a discount on items to them, will go along with the suggestion to take the standard mags apart for rebuild kits. As soon as that is suggested, I would surmise the shop is going to immediately suspect something is amiss and the sale will be quashed. Also, a paramedic will not be allowed to buy standard capacity mags from the gun store, only a leo will.

Didn't catch that part about him not being leo. You're right, only leo could get the mags, not a paramedic.

I guess the part about selling them as rebuild kits would depend on the dealer. The situation at hand is different since it involves three parties, but I was in a gun shop a couple of weeks ago asking about a mini 30 tactical. The dealer said he could get the rifle with the flash hider removed so it's in a legal configuration and either take apart the 20 round mag that came with it and sell it to me as a rebuilt kit or keep it and sell me 10 rounders at a discounted price.

So there are dealers who would do something like that; it would just depend on whether the dealer suspects that it would be used illegally. In my situation, he wouldn't have had a problem selling it as a rebuild kit.