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iareConfusE
05-09-2011, 10:41 AM
Did a quick search for 1911 malfunctions, couldn't find anything in the first few pages except for pictures of 1911's...

Anyways, I've been having a bit of trouble now for the first time with my 1911. The only thing that has changed since the problems started was my ammo. I was using my reloaded rounds, 5.2gr of Titegroup behind a 200gr bullet, and now 7.4gr Power Pistol behind a 200gr bullet.

The gun is a SA Loaded 1911 in .45ACP, and the magazines in question are ChipMcCormick 8rnd Shooting Star mags.

The PP loads felt significantly stronger than my TG loads, and I've never had a problem with the TG loads. Now with the PP loads, there are two things that have been happening.

1. The last round in the magazine jumps out of the magazine and does not slide up underneath the extractor claw the way it is supposed to. Obviously, this causes the gun to not go into full battery and jam (sort of).

2. Last round fired causes a really bad failure to eject. I get sort of a 3 way jam, with the brass being lodged in between the slide, barrel, and magazine.

I feel like I can fix #1 by getting a stronger recoil spring,and perhaps a different magazine follower (the dimpled ones), however I have no idea why #2 is happening. Perhaps the extractor isn't "tuned" properly? What puzzles me is that I don't have any problems with the TG loads (lighter recoil), so I'm thinking that a parts malfunction or defect is out of the question, and that it may have to do solely with the ammo, especially since that's the only thing that I have changed.

I've decided to reduce my powder charge by a little bit, to try and match the recoil of my TG loads, but I also want to get the dimpled magazine follower and stronger recoil spring, as I think those would still contribute to continued reliability.

So....any help/input/thoughts/experience with these types of malfunctions?

ojisan
05-09-2011, 11:20 AM
2 is likley caused by 1...the very last round in the mag is jumping up early enough to knock the second to the last round out of the extractor as the slide comes back.

The very last round fed by the mag is typically at a slightly different angle as the earlier rounds as there are no more rounds under it.

Despite the good brand name of the mags, I have not had good luck with this brand in my admitedly very limited experience with them many years ago.

I think you have a magazine problem....possibly bent feed lips...do you have any other types of mags to try?

Can you duplicate this at home by manual cycling the slide?

iareConfusE
05-09-2011, 12:13 PM
2 is likley caused by 1...the very last round in the mag is jumping up early enough to knock the second to the last round out of the extractor as the slide comes back.

The very last round fed by the mag is typically at a slightly different angle as the earlier rounds as there are no more rounds under it.

Despite the good brand name of the mags, I have not had good luck with this brand in my admitedly very limited experience with them many years ago.

I think you have a magazine problem....possibly bent feed lips...do you have any other types of mags to try?

Can you duplicate this at home by manual cycling the slide?

I don't think 2 could have caused 1 because #1 doesn't allow the slide into battery, and the gun won't fire, therefore there is no brass to be smashed up in the gun. If I get the misfeed from #1, I can load the last round in the magazine and rack it into the chamber just fine, but it is after I fire that last round that the piece of brass doesn't eject and just gets mashed up.

I am almost certain that it is a magazine problem though. I did a bit of research on this malfunction, and it's a pretty common malfunction attributed to magazines. Either a weak magazine spring, or a follower that doesn't help hold the last round in place, causing the round to jump forward and in front of the extractor claw.

redcliff
05-09-2011, 2:37 PM
How does the pistol function with factory FMJ ammo? I'm curious as to whether your load is "hotter" or "milder" than factory ammunition which would necesitate a recoil spring weight change.

Problem 1 is, as you are aware usually caused by the magazine/weak magazine spring OR limp-wristing, all of which cause the "inertial feed".

Problem 2 can be caused by improper recoil spring, or insufficient extractor tension since the extractor doesn't have a cartridge left in the magazine to help support the fired case during extraction.

MossbergMan
05-09-2011, 2:45 PM
Easy way to eliminate the extractor tension/tuning as an issue is to remove the slide from the frame, remove the barrel and place a live round under the extractor. The extractor should hold a loaded round with the slide horizontial. It should slide in easily. If it "snaps" in place, it's likely too tight. If it fails to hold the round, it's too loose and needs a slight bend to tighten it up. Owner/operators can do this, it's not difficult.

If your brass is getting trapped between the slide, barrel and mag, seems to me a classic light load or weak wrist, type 2 malfunction. Now, that it happens only on the last round seems odd. Are your magazines numbered or otherwise identifiable from each other? If so isolate the offending magazine(s). If it happens with all magazines, try factory ammo. If the problems still persist, it's a gun issue, perhaps the recoil spring.
As an after thought....has your gun been "altered" from factory specs? If so, by whom?
I've seen alot of guns ruined by kitchen table "gunsmiths" making their guns "better".
Good luck and let us know what happens.

iareConfusE
05-09-2011, 3:16 PM
How does the pistol function with factory FMJ ammo? I'm curious as to whether your load is "hotter" or "milder" than factory ammunition which would necesitate a recoil spring weight change.

Problem 1 is, as you are aware usually caused by the magazine/weak magazine spring OR limp-wristing, all of which cause the "intertial feed".

Problem 2 can be caused by improper recoil spring, or insufficient extractor tension since the extractor doesn't have a cartridge left in the magazine to help support the fired case during extraction.

Functions perfectly with factory FMJ ammo. Again, I'm almost certain the culprit is with my hotter reloads, since that's the only thing I've changed before the malfunctions.

Easy way to eliminate the extractor tension/tuning as an issue is to remove the slide from the frame, remove the barrel and place a live round under the extractor. The extractor should hold a loaded round with the slide horizontial. It should slide in easily. If it "snaps" in place, it's likely too tight. If it fails to hold the round, it's too loose and needs a slight bend to tighten it up. Owner/operators can do this, it's not difficult.

If your brass is getting trapped between the slide, barrel and mag, seems to me a classic light load or weak wrist, type 2 malfunction. Now, that it happens only on the last round seems odd. Are your magazines numbered or otherwise identifiable from each other? If so isolate the offending magazine(s). If it happens with all magazines, try factory ammo. If the problems still persist, it's a gun issue, perhaps the recoil spring.
As an after thought....has your gun been "altered" from factory specs? If so, by whom?
I've seen alot of guns ruined by kitchen table "gunsmiths" making their guns "better".
Good luck and let us know what happens.

I'll check my extractor tension later tonight. The loads are most definitely not light, the recoil feels about 2x as much as factory FMJ, and I've never had a malfunction from limp wristing. I hold the gun pretty firm. I alreadyhave an 18# Wilson Combat recoil spring on the way to me, so I'll give that a try in combination with slightly lighter reloads. I'll number my magazines, but I'm pretty sure it happens with all magazines.

Fishslayer
05-09-2011, 4:38 PM
Dimpled follower? Check
Hybrid lips for SWC? Check
7rd heavy spring? Check

I have a couple of these Checkmates & they work OK. I agree your problem is recoil/magazine related.

http://www.topgunsupply.com/check-mate-full-size-1911-7rd-magazines/

iareConfusE
05-09-2011, 5:03 PM
Dimpled follower? Check
Hybrid lips for SWC? Check
7rd heavy spring? Check

I have a couple of these Checkmates & they work OK. I agree your problem is recoil/magazine related.

http://www.topgunsupply.com/check-mate-full-size-1911-7rd-magazines/


Anybody know where I could just buy dimpled magazine followers? Would a dimpled follower from any given manufacturer work in say.. a Springfield factory, or a ChipMcCormick brand magazine body?

golfrj
05-09-2011, 5:57 PM
Functions perfectly with factory FMJ ammo. Again, I'm almost certain the culprit is with my hotter reloads, since that's the only thing I've changed before the malfuctions. The loads are most definitely not light, the recoil feels about 2x as much as factory FMJ, and I've never had a malfunction from limp wristing. I hold the gun pretty firm. I alreadyhave an 18# Wilson Combat recoil spring on the way to me, so I'll give that a try in combination with slightly lighter reloads. I'll number my magazines, but I'm pretty sure it happens with all magazines.


May I ask the logic behind firing hot loads at twice the recoil for practice? If the loads are that powerful you may need even more than an 18# recoil spring.. Remember though that spring works in both directions (batters the gun going back into battery).. I understand if your just looking for a Defense load BUT I have always felt beating the gun with Heavy loads for practice is unnecessary & Expensive.. Good Luck correcting your problems.....

Chief-7700
05-09-2011, 6:30 PM
Less powder in the reloads and your problem will most likely go away.

iareConfusE
05-09-2011, 6:56 PM
May I ask the logic behind firing hot loads at twice the recoil for practice? If the loads are that powerful you may need even more than an 18# recoil spring.. Remember though that spring works in both directions (batters the gun going back into battery).. I understand if your just looking for a Defense load BUT I have always felt beating the gun with Heavy loads for practice is unnecessary & Expensive.. Good Luck correcting your problems.....

Not looking for a defensive load. The heavy recoil was not intentional. That was my first time loading with PP, and I just tried to duplicate the velocity that I got with TG, which called for 7.4gr of PP. I'll just back the charge off a bit and I should be fine I think.

Chief-7700
05-09-2011, 7:05 PM
Not looking for a defensive load. The heavy recoil was not intentional. That was my first time loading with PP, and I just tried to duplicate the velocity that I got with TG, which called for 7.4gr of PP. I'll just back the charge off a bit and I should be fine I think.

Might be time to check the reloading manual about the difference in burn rates for Titegroup and Pistol Powder.

golfrj
05-09-2011, 7:18 PM
Might be time to check the reloading manual about the difference in burn rates for Titegroup and Pistol Powder.

What he said, PP is recommended by the manufacturer for heavier 9mm and 40 S&W loads (around 1100 fps) too fast for most 1911's.. Good Luck

iareConfusE
05-09-2011, 7:29 PM
What he said, PP is recommended by the manufacturer for heavier 9mm and 40 S&W loads (around 1100 fps) too fast for most 1911's.. Good Luck

Yeah I actually purchased PP for the specific purpose of reloading 9mm, but after I sold my 9mm I stopped reloading for it and just tried to make do with what I have. Unless I can find someone willing to trade me 4lbs of Bullseye of 4lbs of PP, I'll just try my best to work with it.

wizdumb
05-09-2011, 7:35 PM
If you're going to change your magazine internals, get Wilson Combat followers/springs.

I had nothing but trouble with my CMC mags until I replaced their internals with WC parts, now they function 100%.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=439991

Fishslayer
05-09-2011, 7:39 PM
If you're going to change your magazine internals, get Wilson Combat followers/springs.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=439991

I put 7rd WC guts in my Ruger KP90 mags. Good stuff.

iareConfusE
05-11-2011, 8:27 PM
Went to the range earlier today to test out some new mods, and some lighter ammo. This time around I loaded the rounds to 7.0gr of Power Pistol using the same 200gr Bear Creek bullet.

New mods to the gun were a one-piece Wilson Combat full length guide rod, and a Wilsom Combat 18# recoil spring.

This time around I had zero malfunctions with the PP reloaded ammo with both factory SA mags (dimpled) and CMC 8rnd Shooting Star mags, however I did try shooting some much hotter TG loads that I made a while ago with some 230gr Hornady XTP. Those ones did actually malfunction at the last round. The gun did the inertial feed, where the round jumps up in front of the extractor instead of sliding under it, however I did not have the 3 way brass jam on the last round like I was having before.

I believe the lower powered rounds, and the heavier recoil spring helped to solve these malfunctions, though I don't think I'll be able to shoot any +P loads through this gun unless I change my magazine springs to some ridiculously powerful ones.

Fishslayer
05-11-2011, 9:21 PM
I don't think I'll be able to shoot any +P loads through this gun unless I change my magazine springs to some ridiculously powerful ones.


Wolf sells heavy mag springs.
I got an Uplula mag loader for the wife's nine & found it makes loading my .45 mags easy peasy as well. Haveta confess I'm kinda spoiled by it.:o

Power Pistol is pretty slow, but only a few slots on the chart below W231 which is pretty popular. The slowest I use id Green Dot and did actually run into some cycling problems with light loads & 200gr boolits.
I tried W231 for .45ACP & wound up going back to good ol' Bullseye. I still have most of the pound. Think I might give it a try with 147gr nines.

Here's Hodgdon's burn rate chart.
http://www.hodgdon.com/burn-rate.html

chim-chim7
05-11-2011, 10:07 PM
When it comes to 1911 mags except no substitute. Wilson Combat. I too have a Loaded and I used a buddys. CM mag. Didn't have good results. I can cycle 200 gr. Semiwad cutters in my 8 round WC mags no problem.

MossbergMan
05-12-2011, 9:09 AM
Query: Do you have a Wilson Recoil Buffer installed? If so ditch it. Next, since your gun functions fine with factory ammo....yes, it's your loads.
Titegroup's published info is flawed, be careful. I over pressured my 9mm loads using data from two different books 4.5grs. (both listed 4.8 max) and was blowing primers out and into my firing pin channel.
I'd change things back to stock and work up a load that works in my gun, but that's just me. Good luck.
"The enemy of a good gun, is an owner trying to make it better" LR

iareConfusE
05-12-2011, 12:14 PM
Query: Do you have a Wilson Recoil Buffer installed? If so ditch it. Next, since your gun functions fine with factory ammo....yes, it's your loads.
Titegroup's published info is flawed, be careful. I over pressured my 9mm loads using data from two different books 4.5grs. (both listed 4.8 max) and was blowing primers out and into my firing pin channel.
I'd change things back to stock and work up a load that works in my gun, but that's just me. Good luck.
"The enemy of a good gun, is an owner trying to make it better" LR

No recoil buffer, and yes I know it was my loads. My TG loads worked just fine, no issues with that. My issues came from my Power Pistol loads, which I have since reduced, and everything is now fine and dandy. I just need to find a magazine that won't allow an inertial feed to occur.