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View Full Version : AW Party off shore...............


missiontrails
05-07-2011, 9:10 AM
I think it's time to test my skills at building floating targets. There are too many AR's AND Boats in my family, and past 3 miles off shore, the BB's can come off and the 30 rounders can go on (assemble some rebuild kits off shore, then disassemble before back in CA waters). We were out last Sunday fishing, about 10 miles out, and there was NOBODY out there....... That time has come, and it's much cooler temperature wise than the desert.

jasonnorcal
05-07-2011, 9:15 AM
U suck!!!!!! I want in on this.

socal-shooter
05-07-2011, 9:18 AM
great idea!!

never thought of doing that..

only thing that sucks about it is you cant clean up the range.

missiontrails
05-07-2011, 9:33 AM
great idea!!

never thought of doing that..

only thing that sucks about it is you cant clean up the range.

Ya, but we will patrol any floating debris with a big net. Plus, we can practice our shooting stances for moving seas and pirate/hostage situations:)

brantly04
05-07-2011, 9:41 AM
all you need is the yo ho ho rifle

G1500
05-07-2011, 9:45 AM
And, where do we sign up?

Noobert
05-07-2011, 10:17 AM
What ever you do, don't lose your AR's in a tragic boating accident!

Smile
05-07-2011, 10:19 AM
Sounds like a great idea!

missiontrails
05-07-2011, 10:22 AM
What ever you do, don't lose your AR's in a tragic boating accident!

Ya, finger OFF the trigger until pointed over the rail... in the moving seas....lol

glockwise2000
05-07-2011, 10:25 AM
What ever you do, don't lose your AR's in a tragic boating accident!

This sounds to be a big disaster if it happened to anyone.

Keep practicing to swim with an AR in your back. That way you won't lose your precious possession if incase the boat sank.

missiontrails
05-07-2011, 11:16 AM
My bro has green tips, not tracers.... dumbass... I was excited there for a second.. 55gr and 62gr it is........

mrvash
05-07-2011, 11:17 AM
Damn! you lucky SOB.

dieselpower
05-07-2011, 11:22 AM
I need to say this and you can take it for what its worth.

A large capacity magazine is a large capacity magazine...even in parts form.

A rebuild kit with all the parts to make a magazine is NOT a large capacity magazine because its NEVER going to be used as a large capacity magazine.

While technically no DA can file charges on you for what you do outside of CA borders, Customs/Border Patrol can ask a DA to file based on STATEMENTS made to them.

The importation of Large capacity magazine...IN ANY FORM...is illegal.

G1500
05-07-2011, 11:28 AM
My bro has green tips, not tracers.... dumbass... I was excited there for a second.. 55gr and 62gr it is........

You mean the green tips I bought don't leave plumes of green smoke trails?

I think I was ripped off.....:eek:

missiontrails
05-07-2011, 11:32 AM
I need to say this and you can take it for what its worth.

A large capacity magazine is a large capacity magazine...even in parts form.

A rebuild kit with all the parts to make a magazine is NOT a large capacity magazine because its NEVER going to be used as a large capacity magazine.

While technically no DA can file charges on you for what you do outside of CA borders, Customs/Border Patrol can ask a DA to file based on STATEMENTS made to them.

The importation of Large capacity magazine...IN ANY FORM...is illegal.

Not illegal to possess springs, followers, bodies, and the like. Because while here in CA, they are repair parts and ingredients for 10 rounders, which is why calegalmags and 44mag.com sell them to us, right? A scrap heap of parts CAN be made into 30 rounders in the right jurisdictions. So, the DA can try presecution, because I took parts out to sea, out of state, made high caps in Federal waters, used them, then dissassembled them. If I am guilty of anything, then so is EVERY vendor who ships parts to CA. Right? Is my weapon a AW when it arrives back in CA with a BB on it?

dieselpower
05-07-2011, 11:47 AM
Not illegal to possess springs, followers, bodies, and the like. Because while here in CA, they repair parts and ingredients for 10 rounders, which is why calegalmags and 44mag.com sell them to us, right?

a rebuild kit is not illegal

a large capacity magazine in ANY form is.

Your statement to authorities determines what you have in front of them...a large capacity magazine...or a rebuild kit.

refer to Question 4 of the AG memo on rebuild kits. A4 (answer to question 4).

http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/DOJ-large-cap-magazines-2005-11-10.pdf

NorCalK9.com
05-07-2011, 11:48 AM
DUDE this is freaking awesome!!!! I need to go buy me a boat so I can go to the floating shooting range.
@ Dieselpower Good looking out on the legalities of the 30 round mags. I'm gonna have to look that stuff up.

G1500
05-07-2011, 11:50 AM
Not illegal to possess springs, followers, bodies, and the like. Because while here in CA, they repair parts and ingredients for 10 rounders, which is why calegalmags and 44mag.com sell them to us, right?

http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/DOJ-large-cap-magazines-2005-11-10.pdf

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2141/5696628593_c1fde51ae5_b.jpg

missiontrails
05-07-2011, 11:52 AM
http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/DOJ-large-cap-magazines-2005-11-10.pdf

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2141/5696628593_c1fde51ae5_b.jpg

Exactally. When I bring the parts BACK to CA, its with the intention to use them ONLY as parts here in CA. Now, if you already own assembled high caps, but did not import them, those are NOT illegal to POSSESS. The state of CA can't dictate what I do with my parts outside of their jurisdiction.

thrillhouse700
05-07-2011, 11:54 AM
just be careful, I remember reading somewhere that any ocean between here and Catalina is still considered under some sort of jurisdiction. May want to look that up.

G1500
05-07-2011, 11:56 AM
Exactally. When I bring the parts BACK to CA, its with the intention to use them ONLY as parts here in CA. Now, if you already own assembled high caps, but did not import them, those are NOT illegal to POSSESS.


You need to take it for what its worth, and be able to defend your position in a logical manner regardless of where you stand.

missiontrails
05-07-2011, 11:59 AM
You need to take it for what its worth, and be able to defend your position in a logical manner regardless of where you stand.

Yes, my possition is that when my current 10 rounders go bad....... I own parts including mag blocks, and epoxy to make 10 rounders.

missiontrails
05-07-2011, 12:00 PM
just be careful, I remember reading somewhere that any ocean between here and Catalina is still considered under some sort of jurisdiction. May want to look that up.
It is.... its Federal.......which allows high caps and NO MAG LOCKS. CA ends at the 3 mile mark.

missiontrails
05-07-2011, 12:06 PM
a rebuild kit is not illegal

a large capacity magazine in ANY form is.

Your statement to authorities determines what you have in front of them...a large capacity magazine...or a rebuild kit.

refer to Question 4 of the AG memo on rebuild kits. A4 (answer to question 4).

http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/DOJ-large-cap-magazines-2005-11-10.pdf
A high cap mag is NOT illegal outside of CA. It is not illegal to determine that your parts will now become complete mags outside of the state... When in the state, the parts must be for rebuild purposes. "Yes Mr. DA, I understand that these parts are only for rebuild purposes only when i'm in your state." Also, its not illegal to possess a high cap mag.. only to import and (or) use in a weapon (unless they are from pre 1994, and used in a featureless build).

dieselpower
05-07-2011, 12:16 PM
and the REASON you have the kits is to REPAIR 10 round magazines that fail in the field.

BP LEO- What are these?
You- Magazine parts.
BP LEO- What are you doing with them?
You- I am ____________________.

think about it...

missiontrails
05-07-2011, 12:28 PM
and the REASON you have the kits is to REPAIR 10 round magazines that fail in the field.

BP LEO- What are these?
You- Magazine parts.
BP LEO- What are you doing with them?
You- I am ____________________.

think about it...
___________Keeping these as parts, because these are plastic magazines, and plastic could eventually fail. Also Mr. LEO, there are good block inserts available to limit capacity to 10 rounds, combined with a good epoxy or a roll pin in the floor plate, and its cheaper to build my own as opposed to paying the premium for ready made ones.

BP LEO - Ok, thanks...as long as you are aware of the laws.

dieselpower
05-07-2011, 12:33 PM
___________Keeping these as parts, because these are plastic magazines, and plastic could eventually fail. Also Mr. LEO, there are good block inserts available to limit capacity to 10 rounds, combined with a good epoxy or a roll pin in the floor plate, and its cheaper to build my own as opposed to paying the premium for ready made ones.

BP LEO - Ok, thanks...as long as you are aware of the laws.

bingo...now read your OP and tell me what you did wrong...

G1500
05-07-2011, 12:35 PM
___________Keeping these as parts, because these are plastic magazines, and plastic could eventually fail. Also Mr. LEO, there are good block inserts available to limit capacity to 10 rounds, combined with a good epoxy or a roll pin in the floor plate, and its cheaper to build my own as opposed to paying the premium for ready made ones.

BP LEO - Ok, thanks...as long as you are aware of the laws.

There you go.

You don't need the added fluff, continuing a conversation with a LEO is not constructive.

sephy
05-07-2011, 12:38 PM
Sounds like a good time. Just be sure to shoot away from California!

Josh3239
05-07-2011, 12:41 PM
That letter is Alison's opinion, it isn't law. I don't even think Alison is still with the BOF. The BOF is infamous for giving out incorrect information, lying, and threatening dealers with no result. Remind me again why Alison's letter means anything? All she did was explain the law based on her interpretation.

missiontrails
05-07-2011, 12:44 PM
There you go.

You don't need the added fluff, continuing a conversation with a LEO is not constructive.

Ya, I have no problem chatting up LEO's.... a few of my friends are LEO's, and I actually enjoy talking to those guys. Heck, I spent about 15 min chatting with the border patrol guys in Jacumba when we stopped to grap food for the desert shoot.... One of the guys was asking about brands and other stuff that we had on our rifles.... then we talked about their new road along the fence at the now defunct Carrizo shooting area...

missiontrails
05-07-2011, 12:46 PM
That letter is Alison's opinion, it isn't law. I don't even think Alison is still with the BOF. The BOF is infamous for giving out incorrect information, lying, and threatening dealers with no result. Remind me again why Alison's letter means anything? All she did was explain the law based on her interpretation.

It's just the generalized threat of being "AT RISK."

dieselpower
05-07-2011, 12:51 PM
That letter is Alison's opinion, it isn't law. I don't even think Alison is still with the BOF. The BOF is infamous for giving out incorrect information, lying, and threatening dealers with no result. Remind me again why Alison's letter means anything? All she did was explain the law based on her interpretation.

totally agree. Its an at risk thing. Its just common sense planning. We all as gun owners in CA take risks. Each of us has a line we will not cross. I am just showing one of those lines.

r6raff
05-07-2011, 12:53 PM
Sounds like a great idea there Mission. I am with you on talking with Leo's. I have no issue talking at length with them, im not breaking any laws and have no reason to fear them. I will be a little more tactful with what I say and make sure I don't say stupid things. The only reason I would ever be silent or say only what they need to know is if I feel I am being accused of illegal activity and was guilty or could be. The ability to get one more opinion and any matter, especially from Leo's, just arms me better for the future, and I try and take advantage of that as often as I can.

Have fun with that shoot man, WE.... NEED.... PICS....

Mr.Caketown
05-07-2011, 12:56 PM
Just an idea here .... If you get floating buoys you should add some steel targets so when you get them you will hear them instead of cleaning up trash out of the water , or maybe a steel target on a buoy with a spinning plate , the kind that move vertical nor horizantal.

r6raff
05-07-2011, 12:59 PM
totally agree. Its an at risk thing. Its just common sense planning. We all as gun owners in CA take risks. Each of us has a line we will not cross. I am just showing one of those lines.

I totally agree, certain things arent worth the risk. I learned long ago to pick and choose my battles, and certain things just aren't worth it. The entire importation issue really seems to be a perspective.

Prosecutor saying : "You have these parts to make high cap magazines, you are guilty!"

You say : "I have these parts to rebuild my existing 10round cal legal magazines, I have not broken any laws."

It seems like unless they have them assembled as hi cap, they can't really prove anything based on suspected intent. Or am I wrong on this?

Just seems like one of those issues that is potentially very "Grey Area" in nature and if it is, then I would best avoid it.

r6raff
05-07-2011, 1:01 PM
Not to derail, but if you have preban hi caps and you bring them out of state, ie Nevada or the Ocean, can you bring them back with out "Importing" or is it fine since they originated in California?

bcrich
05-07-2011, 1:03 PM
Just make sure to clean EVERYTHING so rust wont set in with the saltwater-spray you will most likely get on your guns.

missiontrails
05-07-2011, 1:04 PM
Just an idea here .... If you get floating buoys you should add some steel targets so when you get them you will hear them instead of cleaning up trash out of the water , or maybe a steel target on a buoy with a spinning plate , the kind that move vertical nor horizantal.

I'm thinking of the spinning idea...... Also thinking about ballons stapled to the floating mass also.... of into the distance......

dieselpower
05-07-2011, 1:36 PM
Not to derail, but if you have preban hi caps and you bring them out of state, ie Nevada or the Ocean, can you bring them back with out "Importing" or is it fine since they originated in California?

IAW the rules of law, the DA has to prove you did something wrong. The lack of evidence isn't enough to move forward...as in, you tell BP you are returning with legal large capacity magazines and they do not believe you. This is grounds for arrest but without further evidence of a crime the charges are dropped. If you get the magazines back is another story. I would think it would be since if you don't get them back you can not own them...so the whole deal revolves around you cash flow to hire a lawyer to push the DA into giving your property back. The DA may tray the, "I'll drop charges if you surrender the magazines" tactic. Your only counter would be getting a lawyer since they could hold on to the magazine forever deciding on how to file charges. You would again need to file paperwork with the court forcing the DA to file or release...what a pain in the butt....

so to answer your question... yes its legal to leave CA with your legal large capacity magazine and return... if you want to do that and risk a misunderstanding is your business.

You could also disassemble those magazines and simply have parts...Since there is nothing in the law stating you can not disassemble your legally owned large capacity magazines and reassemble them later..... You can even store your legally owned large capacity magazines in parts form... its a crazy freaking state we live in.

$P-Ritch$
05-07-2011, 2:08 PM
Wouldn't balloons be bad for the wildlife? I was thinking some sort of buoy with a rack on it that could hold clay pidgeons. They are orange and easy to see and then most of the ones they sell at walmart are biodegradable.

missiontrails
05-07-2011, 2:13 PM
Wouldn't balloons be bad for the wildlife? I was thinking some sort of buoy with a rack on it that could hold clay pidgeons. They are orange and easy to see and then most of the ones they sell at walmart are biodegradable.

I know.... I'm devising a way to have the least amount of environmental impact.....

mj1
05-07-2011, 2:20 PM
He had the right to remain silet after the fact ,,,Ron White LHAO here, but he could not keep it shut befor the fact. Next several poeple on the boat will film it then put it on U-screwd up tube.

The producers of Puncked and Baitcar will be there with their crew with Gary Buse LHAO,,,making moronic statement while the OP gets cuffed. I got to get cable. The USCG gets another free harbor boat ,, we all win!

missiontrails
05-07-2011, 2:30 PM
He had the right to remain silet after the fact ,,,Ron White LHAO here, but he could not keep it shut befor the fact. Next several poeple on the boat will film it then put it on U-screwd up tube.

The producers of Puncked and Baitcar will be there with their crew with Gary Buse LHAO,,,I got to get cable.

Heck, i'm gonna film it, and post vids here.......that will add to the fun.

dieselpower
05-07-2011, 2:31 PM
He had the right to remain silet after the fact ,,,Ron White LHAO here, but he could not keep it shut befor the fact. Next several poeple on the boat will film it then put it on U-screwd up tube.

The producers of Puncked and Baitcar will be there with their crew with Gary Buse LHAO,,,I got to get cable.

LOL... yeah I could see this going south real quick. YouScrewupTube... I love it. :D

I know.... I'm devising a way to have the least amount of environmental impact.....

Cardboard? Or tow a dingy with a target rack on it...LOL

missiontrails
05-07-2011, 2:34 PM
LOL... yeah I could see this going south real quick. YouScrewupTube... I love it. :D



Cardboard? Or tow a dingy with a target rack on it...LOL

I'm thinking wood pallets with some extra foam for floatation at the four corners. Then build a target superstructure on top. Easy to retrieve when we are finished, then bring the 18V Milwaukee Sawzall to cut them into easy trashcan size pieces. I don't think that I have mentioned here.... but besides guns.... I love power tools:)

Fishandshoot
05-07-2011, 4:28 PM
IMO. I wouldn't do a full on shooting session on the water. Maybe a magazine or two.

Sound travels very far and bullets travel even farther if they ricochet off the surface.

As soon as someone hears the first shot; they will call it into to CG and you will be in a mess.
People who hear your shots cannot determine your line of fire...and therefore will be pissed.

cali_armz
05-07-2011, 4:30 PM
What ever you do, don't lose your AR's in a tragic boating accident!

thats what i was thinking. if i were out at sea, id probably tie a rope through the carry handle, and then attach it to my belt. can you imagine how much it would s*** to accidentally drop your rifle in the ocean that far out to sea?

:eek:

missiontrails
05-07-2011, 4:32 PM
IMO. I wouldn't do a full on shooting session on the water. Maybe a magazine or two.

Sound travels very far and bullets travel even farther if they ricochet off the surface.

As soon as someone hears the first shot; they will call it into to CG and you will be in a mess.
People who hear your shots cannot determine your line of fire...and therefore will be pissed.
Yes, thought about that. We will probably go at least 10 miles, and bring a set of Swarovki binoculars out there to look for "specs" down range........ If will be safe and fun. 500 rounds should cover it.

Laser Sailor
05-07-2011, 5:25 PM
Is this legal? In the Navy we did live fire with small arms off our 32' patrol boats, had to travel to a "box" designated by the USCG prior to beginning. If I were considering this I'd contact the local USCG sector to clarify where you can and cannot shoot. It becomes their jurisdiction once you pass that 3 mile mark.

We shot up some 55 gallon drums and let them sink. We kept a minimum distance of 50 yards to the target to negate the risk of ricochet.

Nothing brings on seasickness like looking down a rifle's sights. :(

To solve the mag problem, find someone with prebans, have them go with you.

dieselpower
05-07-2011, 5:30 PM
Is this legal? In the Navy we did live fire with small arms off our 32' patrol boats, had to travel to a "box" designated by the USCG prior to beginning. We shot up some 55 gallon drums and let them sink. We kept a minimum distance of 50 yards to the target to negate the risk of ricochet.

Nothing brings on seasickness like looking down a rifle's sights.

To solve the mag problem, find someone with prebans, have them go with you.

I think that is a law dealing with military, I am fairly sure civilians and commercial boats do not need to do this. They must maintain a distance from other boats I am sure.

The "rebuild" kits can be used to fix any 10 rd magazines, long body, medium body and long body types. You never know what will break so you need extra parts of each part with you.