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mr.hustle
05-06-2011, 10:45 PM
Ok so my DL address does not match where I live now.
But I have my car registration which does have the current address.
I also have the handgun safety card.

What else do I need to purchase a handgun in CA?

JaeFern
05-06-2011, 10:46 PM
Second proof of address like a utility bill?

Joe
05-06-2011, 10:49 PM
Ok so my DL address does not match where I live now.
But I have my car registration which does have the current address.
I also have the handgun safety card.

What else do I need to purchase a handgun in CA?

Money

JaeFern
05-06-2011, 10:51 PM
Oh... And patience.

mr.hustle
05-06-2011, 10:56 PM
what else can I use as my second proof of address besides utility bill?

mr.hustle
05-06-2011, 10:58 PM
will my pay stubs work?

mr.hustle
05-06-2011, 11:01 PM
or how about my lease on my apartment?

McTerry
05-06-2011, 11:18 PM
Apartment lease yes, car registration, Gas or Electric bill, Water bill, Home phone (not cell)...

ohlone
05-06-2011, 11:25 PM
or go to DMV, ask for a print out which shows your old address and new address, to prove your current address... but you need to pay, $10 or $5, i don't remember... i did that before i got my new DL... some shops don't take utility bills.....

well206
05-07-2011, 4:52 AM
My last couple purchases have been made with exactly what you have... DL with previous address, Car registration with current address, and HSC. You should be good to go.

knucklehead
05-07-2011, 5:10 AM
Lease will work as long as it matches your DL. Some stores might want it to be notorized also. That's what I have been using for awhile.

Sent from whinny men who cry about my sig using Tapatalk

mr.hustle
05-07-2011, 6:35 AM
This is what I have.....

DL that does not match my current address.
LEASE that has my current address...
And car registration that matches my current address..

daybreak
05-07-2011, 6:37 AM
My last couple purchases have been made with exactly what you have... DL with previous address, Car registration with current address, and HSC. You should be good to go.

same for my gf who purchased last monday.

Ubermcoupe
05-07-2011, 7:54 AM
will my pay stubs work?

Only if you get them from the Gov't.


As you can tell there are many responses here. I ALWAYS suggest calling your FFL and asking them what they will accept. It save you time/money to get what you want faster.

All that aside:
Federal 4473 REQUIRES a valid govt ID with current address. If it is not your current addressm, then you need to supply another valid govt ID with current address (this is why there are two places on the 4473).
CA proof of residency REQUIRES you to have matching proof (Car reg, Power/Gas/Landline, lease agreement) and valid ID. So if your matching address was not valid, you would need to obtain a matching ID to stay in compliance with CA law.
(This matching ID/Proof of residency basically negates the whole two ID thing for the 4473)

Some FFLs (even though valid) will not accept XXXX or YYYY. It is best to clarify with them before buying from them.

Went through this with my first purchase where I had to shop around for someone who worked with me. I Ended up with a cheaper DROS fee so it worked best for me. :D Best of luck.

mr.hustle
05-07-2011, 2:06 PM
they took my DL (former address) and current car registration.

LTP90
05-07-2011, 2:45 PM
Boat registration works too especially when you miss placed your vehicle registration
:D

sanjosebmx
05-07-2011, 3:04 PM
My last couple purchases have been made with exactly what you have... DL with previous address, Car registration with current address, and HSC. You should be good to go.

me too, no problems with the DL and Reg.

sanjosebmx
05-07-2011, 3:05 PM
This is what I have.....

DL that does not match my current address.
LEASE that has my current address...
And car registration that matches my current address..

You should be fine, call the store to make sure...

LBDamned
05-07-2011, 3:12 PM
This is what I have.....

DL that does not match my current address.
LEASE that has my current address...
And car registration that matches my current address..

exactly what I use, no problems with three different dealers.

jtmkinsd
05-07-2011, 4:20 PM
The auto registration works double duty on a handgun purchase. It satisfies the Federal requirement for alternate documentation from a government agency for residency when your current address is not on your ID. It also serves as secondary proof of residency for the California requirement. No other documentation is needed...unless the particular shop you go to has additional requirements/policy.

LBDamned
05-07-2011, 4:25 PM
The auto registration works double duty on a handgun purchase. It satisfies the Federal requirement for alternate documentation from a government agency for residency when your current address is not on your ID. It also serves as secondary proof of residency for the California requirement. No other documentation is needed...unless the particular shop you go to has additional requirements/policy.

interesting... the two document thing must be common retailer requirements around here - all three I use required it.

*edit... I just re-read your post... if your ID does not have your current resident address, then a second document is going to be needed anyway - correct?

jtmkinsd
05-07-2011, 4:37 PM
interesting... the two document thing must be common retailer requirements around here - all three I use required it.

*edit... I just re-read your post... if your ID does not have your current resident address, then a second document is going to be needed anyway - correct?

Yes...in the event the address on your ID is not current, you will need alternate documentation from a government agency with your current address. This is for the Federal requirement so it applies to long guns or handguns.

On the State level, CA requires a "secondary proof of residency" when purchasing a handgun. While this does not have to be issued from a government agency (utility bill, land-line phone bill, DMV papers, etc.) the auto registration you brought for the Federal requirement will also satisfy the CA requirement...so there is no need to mess with the extra paperwork. Those who still require you to bring extra paperwork are just operating under the "lets be abundantly overcautious" theory.

LBDamned
05-07-2011, 5:41 PM
Yes...in the event the address on your ID is not current, you will need alternate documentation from a government agency with your current address. This is for the Federal requirement so it applies to long guns or handguns.

On the State level, CA requires a "secondary proof of residency" when purchasing a handgun. While this does not have to be issued from a government agency (utility bill, land-line phone bill, DMV papers, etc.) the auto registration you brought for the Federal requirement will also satisfy the CA requirement...so there is no need to mess with the extra paperwork. Those who still require you to bring extra paperwork are just operating under the "lets be abundantly overcautious" theory.

one of us is not understanding the other...

My ID has a PO Box (because its the only mailing address I use) - therefore I must provide proof a residency (I use car registration) and "second proof of residency" (utility bill, lease agreement, etc)... so two documents required (that's what I've always had to do and according to the way I understand your posts, this is accurate)...

OP has an old address on his ID, so he too would be required to provide two documents proving his residence... so it the case of thread topic - two documents of residency are required - no?

BTW, in the old days (not long ago actually) - the brown DMV card (with change of address) was accepted... the places I deal with no longer accept that - and as I understand it it's not legally allowed... which is why I use the two document thing...

jtmkinsd
05-07-2011, 6:51 PM
one of us is not understanding the other...

My ID has a PO Box (because its the only mailing address I use) - therefore I must provide proof a residency (I use car registration) and "second proof of residency" (utility bill, lease agreement, etc)... so two documents required (that's what I've always had to do and according to the way I understand your posts, this is accurate)...

OP has an old address on his ID, so he too would be required to provide two documents proving his residence... so it the case of thread topic - two documents of residency are required - no?

BTW, in the old days (not long ago actually) - the brown DMV card (with change of address) was accepted... the places I deal with no longer accept that - and as I understand it it's not legally allowed... which is why I use the two document thing...

In both your and the OP's situation, only a DMV registration is needed...that's it...nothing more...nada...zip

Anyone requiring anything more is, as I said, acting out of overcautious fear.

First, CA law says nothing about the address on your license...the fact you have one establishes residency in CA. Federally, if your license address is not your current physical address, you must bring alternate documentation from a government agency.

Whether you have a P.O. box, or have moved so the actual address on your ID is not where you currently reside, you will need something from a government agency with your current address on it to satisfy the 4473 line 20b.

When buying a handgun, CA also requires a "secondary proof of residency". Your valid license...wrong address or not, is the primary proof of residency accepted by CA. The registration you brought to satisfy the Federal requirement can also serve as the secondary proof required by CA.

LBDamned
05-07-2011, 7:41 PM
First, CA law says nothing about the address on your license...the fact you have one establishes residency in CA.

with all due respect, this is not true.

well206
05-07-2011, 7:53 PM
I haven't had a DROS rejected, all OK when just using:

1. Driver's license with previous address (no change of address document)
2. Vehicle registration, with current address.

No other documents were required of me by the FFLs, three different ones, that I have dealt with.

jtmkinsd
05-07-2011, 8:12 PM
with all due respect, this is not true.

Perhapse you could show me any CA PC which states the address must be current on your ID to be valid proof of residency.

When purchasing a firearm the primary proof of residency is the ID itself...wright address, wrong address, PO Box...whatever. If you think about it, how silly is it to require you to bring something from a government agency to prove your current address...and then turn around and say, "oh and do you have a phone bill too?"

When you are asked to bring something from a government agency with your current address on it, it is only to satisfy the Federal requirement for supporting documentation on line 20b of the 4473.

LBDamned
05-07-2011, 8:43 PM
Perhapse you could show me any CA PC which states the address must be current on your ID to be valid proof of residency.

When purchasing a firearm the primary proof of residency is the ID itself...wright address, wrong address, PO Box...whatever. If you think about it, how silly is it to require you to bring something from a government agency to prove your current address...and then turn around and say, "oh and do you have a phone bill too?"

When you are asked to bring something from a government agency with your current address on it, it is only to satisfy the Federal requirement for supporting documentation on line 20b of the 4473.

let's keep this in the context of what has been stated - and not convoluted with any agenda

Here is what I specifically responded to:

First, CA law says nothing about the address on your license...the fact you have one establishes residency in CA.

my response:
with all due respect, this is not true.

now, if you want to discuss the merits of how my statement is fact, PM me and I will provide you with many examples in the 23 years of transportation law/compliance I've experienced where your statement is not fact.

This has gone off topic long enough so PM is better suited... but to make it simple - I've already established I have a CA driver's license with a PO Box - this does not in any way shape or form prove that I live in CA... Again, I can give multiple examples of real world situations were the statement "having a CA ID/license proves residence" simply is not true...

The fact that "being licensed in primary state of residence" is law, does not mean that showing an ID card or license proves residence... kinda like the other thread - you can operate under the formula of the law, but it doesn't mean it is guaranteeing you the law is being upheld. This is why many dealers require the additional documentation... if you don't, no biggie - but I could live in AZ and you would process me as a CA residence with your requirements.

Now, the logical question would be - why in the hell would anyone in another state want to pass off a CA ID to buy a gun... that's an obvious answer... but my point is to show you why your statement isn't true in and of itself. So don't argue the "concept" - argue the facts (and in this case, your statement)..

But again - it's probably better in PM at this point...

jtmkinsd
05-07-2011, 8:55 PM
In a gun forum, all the answers given usually have to do with...well, guns. Knowing the DROS system and CA identification/residency requirements to purchase firearms as opposed to Federal requirements is something I deal with on a daily basis. I wasn't putting forward any "agenda"...in the context of purchasing firearms, everything I have said is accurate.

Now you seem to be an expert in another area where the terms and conditions of what constitutes "residency" may be different...I don't know anything about that...and that information really is irrelevent to the OPs question.

LBDamned
05-07-2011, 9:09 PM
In a gun forum, all the answers given usually have to do with...well, guns. Knowing the DROS system and CA identification/residency requirements to purchase firearms as opposed to Federal requirements is something I deal with on a daily basis. I wasn't putting forward any "agenda"...in the context of purchasing firearms, everything I have said is accurate.

Now you seem to be an expert in another area where the terms and conditions of what constitutes "residency" may be different...I don't know anything about that...and that information really is irrelevent to the OPs question.

as much as I appreciate your daily experiences - my mention does pertain to OP (and my) situation... many dealers will require two forms of "current physical residency" for all the reasons we just went over.

I respect your diligence in following the guidance of the regs... I just think you sometimes come across short-sighted to the reasons other situations exist.

In business, I always tell people "think of the worse thing that can happen - and proceed accordingly"... you will rarely have a snafu when you cover all bases... I could give extreme examples in the CA ID/License scenario we are discussing - such as Al Qaeda cells trying to establish ground - or any number of far fetch, but not unrealistic examples... I think what you should consider is the diligence some dealers use in making sure they are covering all bases. I hope the quirky reference I used doesnt spark a bunch of goofy dialog...

It's easy to simply follow the governments guidelines - but if that's all we relied on things would be much worse than they are...

That's all... no battle between us dude - so don't make it one.

jtmkinsd
05-07-2011, 9:25 PM
Wasn't trying to be argumentative...I said several times that some shops may require extra paperwork because they're overly cautious and have the "more is better" attitude. I apologize if something I posted struck you in an argumentative tone...that was not my intent.

I like to keep things as simple as I possibly can...and the less paperwork I have to hang on to for 20 years, the better. And if I did things based on "what could happen", every transaction would take an hour, and generate a phone book size stack of paper.

halifax
05-07-2011, 9:33 PM
Wasn't trying to be argumentative...I said several times that some shops may require extra paperwork because they're overly cautious and have the "more is better" attitude. I apologize if something I posted struck you in an argumentative tone...that was not my intent.

I like to keep things as simple as I possibly can...and the less paperwork I have to hang on to for 20 years, the better. And if I did things based on "what could happen", every transaction would take an hour, and generate a phone book size stack of paper.

And probably get you "outed" here on CGN as one of those "don't know anything about the law" dealers that the membership needs to boycot.

;)

LBDamned
05-07-2011, 9:37 PM
Wasn't trying to be argumentative...I said several times that some shops may require extra paperwork because they're overly cautious and have the "more is better" attitude. I apologize if something I posted struck you in an argumentative tone...that was not my intent.

I like to keep things as simple as I possibly can...and the less paperwork I have to hang on to for 20 years, the better. And if I did things based on "what could happen", every transaction would take an hour, and generate a phone book size stack of paper.

I hear ya - I dont like mega files either - and paper-work for the sake of regulations often are a waste of everyone's time (but employs government auditors:rolleyes:)...

I'm not sure how a second document with physical residence significantly adds to the time or size - but I get it, you dont like it... I've always been required to provide it and it takes me way more time to happen than dealer (and trust me, I don't like it either)...

Simple is good until you realize an extra step could have saved a boatload of headache and problems... but we all conduct business the way we feel is best.

LBDamned
05-07-2011, 9:41 PM
And probably get you "outed" here on CGN as one of those "don't know anything about the law" dealers that the membership needs to boycot.

;)

ooopsie.... wut :eek:

jtmkinsd
05-07-2011, 9:49 PM
And probably get you "outed" here on CGN as one of those "don't know anything about the law" dealers that the membership needs to boycot.

;)

Yup...lol...in a heartbeat.

jtmkinsd
05-08-2011, 2:04 PM
My understanding is your DL has to have your current home address, in addition to a second form of home address confirmation like a car registration and of course your HSC

For what it's worth...it does not. You must have a valid CA DL/ID. Having a valid DL/ID has nothing to do with the address that is on the face of it. You can write your current address on the back...and it is still valid.

heavyzevy
05-09-2011, 6:04 PM
Lease will work as long as it matches your DL. Some stores might want it to be notorized also. That's what I have been using for awhile.

Sent from whinny men who cry about my sig using Tapatalk

I don't have my own lease. I live with my parents so I have no utility bill or car in my name... from what I understand I can sign a lease with them for pennies a month for one of their rooms right? Would this lease agreement to the job for me?
Does anyone know if Oak Tree gun in Newhall needs it notorized? Anyone has ever done this before?

knucklehead
05-10-2011, 5:25 AM
That's what I did. Me an my girlfriend rent a house from my dad. I have nothing in my name mind you. So the dude at the gun shop told me to get a lease afreament from staples an fill it out. I did an that is what I have been using for sometime now. Make sure to fill it out An have your dad/mom sign as landlord also.


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heavyzevy
05-10-2011, 7:46 AM
That's what I did. Me an my girlfriend rent a house from my dad. I have nothing in my name mind you. So the dude at the gun shop told me to get a lease afreament from staples an fill it out.

Does it need to be from staples? Would this do???
http://www.mojolaw.com/forms/rt16f

I have been looking but can't seem to find any official form.

SixPointEight
05-10-2011, 7:56 AM
It doesn't have to be done at staples, but draw up something and have it notarized. Many dealers require a lease like that to be notarized to accept it.

As to the OP, your proof of residency must match what's on the 4473, and in the DROS system, NOT your ID. In fact, what's on the ID doesn't matter, because if it's used as an ID, it CAN'T be used as proof of residency. That makes me wonder though, if someone has a CA id card, and a CDL, can one of them be an ID and the other a proof of residency?

heavyzevy
05-10-2011, 7:59 AM
So that link should be fine? Seems so weird to me that they wouldn't except my passport, or bank statements, but they would except a form I print off the web and have "rent" from my parents for $.50 a month...

SixPointEight
05-10-2011, 8:04 AM
So that link should be fine? Seems so weird to me that they wouldn't except my passport, or bank statements, but they would except a form I print off the web and have "rent" from my parents for $.50 a month...

If it's notarized, has your name, physical address, and an expiration date, it's good. That's our general rule of thumb.

The caveat being it must be something physically tied to a place. Gas, electric, water, rent, etc. Your $0.50 lease is technically a legally binding rental agreement. The fact that it's between you and your parents, and for pennies a month is irrelevant.

heavyzevy
05-10-2011, 8:09 AM
Your $0.50 lease is technically a legally binding rental agreement.

Damn, this thing is gonna cost me:)! I hope my parents don't use this to somehow use this to legally evict me:(