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Aluisious
11-28-2006, 10:35 AM
I know this sounds hideous, but has anyone had experience with welding AR magazines in place? The screw in solutions seem prone to arrests, and it'd be pretty hard for even the densest person to not understand that something welded into place is "fixed."

If the rifle was transported to another state later on, that weld could always be cut and ground down...leaving a stellar finish, I'm sure.

Stanze
11-28-2006, 10:45 AM
http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/385/houseplant798759au6.jpg

Seriously, on top of having a law degree we have to know how to weld now to own a gun in CA???:rolleyes:

Why don't you just buy a lower receiver or rifle with a sealed mag well?

Other than that, there's a few dealers who seal up mag wells, but they're arseholes so I don't care to promote them.

luvtolean
11-28-2006, 10:46 AM
Dissimilar metals.

Not possible for all intents and purposes.

Further, entirely unnecessary. A decent person with any understanding of firearms, understands there is no fundamental difference between an SKS type rifle, and a Prince50 kit. Removing a screw opens up the magwell and allows someone to commit a felony.

Our rules are byzantine and stupid.

Several people have had direct LEO confiscation of Prince50 kits, and they just aren't illegal.

luvtolean
11-28-2006, 10:48 AM
No kiddin'.

Aluisious
11-28-2006, 10:49 AM
http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/385/houseplant798759au6.jpg

Seriously, on top of having a law degree we have to know how to weld now to own a gun in CA???:rolleyes:

Why don't you just buy a lower receiver or rifle with a sealed mag well?

Other than that, there's a few dealers who seal up mag wells, but they're arseholes so I don't care to promote them.
...I've already bought an OLL and I'm figuring out what to do with it.

Believe me, I wish I'd sprung for that Bushmaster toploader or something.

Aluisious
11-28-2006, 10:50 AM
Dissimilar metals.

Not possible for all intents and purposes.

Further, entirely unnecessary. A decent person with any understanding of firearms, understands there is no fundamental difference between an SKS type rifle, and a Prince50 kit. Removing a screw opens up the magwell and allows someone to commit a felony.

Our rules are byzantine and stupid.

Several people have had direct LEO confiscation of Prince50 kits, and they just aren't illegal.
Several people have had direct LEO confiscation of their personal freedom over Prince50 kits, and that just isn't worth it to me. I have little motivation to become a martyr for gun rights.

Stanze
11-28-2006, 10:52 AM
...I've already bought an OLL and I'm figuring out what to do with it.

Believe me, I wish I'd sprung for that Bushmaster toploader or something.

Have you considered the Monsterman Grip or SRB route w/ no SB-23 features? You gain a detachable magazine by doing so.

luvtolean
11-28-2006, 10:54 AM
Martyrs die.

They had all charges dropped, and are getting their rifles back.

If you really are just trying to figure out what to do, all your handwringing tells me no matter what you do you'll be nervous. Just sell that thing.

Buy a FAB10, Bushy or other closed magwell, a SU-16CA or an M1A.

cornholio1
11-28-2006, 11:10 AM
I know this sounds hideous, but has anyone had experience with welding AR magazines in place? The screw in solutions seem prone to arrests, and it'd be pretty hard for even the densest person to not understand that something welded into place is "fixed."

If the rifle was transported to another state later on, that weld could always be cut and ground down...leaving a stellar finish, I'm sure.


If your that paranoid about it, an AR might not be for you.

bwiese
11-28-2006, 11:18 AM
If you don't want an inefficient fixed 10rd mag, by all means use a detachable mag and just use a MonsterMan grip or one of Grant's new stocks.

And if perchance you already had hicap mags legally in your possession, you could use those too!

BTW, it looks like you are in Santa Clara County, so you're golden now. AW cases have gone away and won't come back.

Aluisious
11-28-2006, 11:19 AM
Martyrs die.

They had all charges dropped, and are getting their rifles back.

If you really are just trying to figure out what to do, all your handwringing tells me no matter what you do you'll be nervous. Just sell that thing.

Buy a FAB10, Bushy or other closed magwell, a SU-16CA or an M1A.
Yes, martyrs die...but there is such a thing as figurative language.

thmpr
11-28-2006, 11:32 AM
Please ask the DOJ for the welding procedure. The current fixed mag kits meets the letter of the law.

Aluisious
11-28-2006, 11:56 AM
I saw on the latest DOJ letter or memo or whatever that welding the circumference of the magazine to the mag well would be one solution. Another involved a rivet and epoxy.

My goal isn't to "be legal" it's to "be legal and stay out of trouble." That, and do it with the receiver I've got, versus buying another one.

luvtolean
11-28-2006, 12:05 PM
Their proposed memo will die, and it makes silly suggestions as hoped for and approved by organizations with political agendas wanting to make the law abiding members of this site criminals.

I wouldn't hang my hat on that memo, nor would I let it change anything in my thinking.

The dealer I bought one of my rifles from had my Prince50 equipped rifle in their store (while on my 10 day wait) during a DOJ audit. Guess what, it wasn't confiscated. I have shot mag released altered rifles at the range with LEO present several times now.

There are already several options out there that are legal. You seem to know about them. If it makes you feel good to get out the epoxy, just do it.

Otherwise, sell it and move on.

Aluisious
11-28-2006, 12:08 PM
Hmm...is there a site I can check out/order a Prince50?

bwiese
11-28-2006, 12:13 PM
Hmm...is there a site I can check out/order a Prince50?

Ali,

If you don't like fixed mags, why not go gripless and use a MonsterMan grip?

Or one of Toolbox_X's new stocks?

They both work GRRRREAT and you can use detachable mags with them (provided no flash hider, etc. also attached).

Aluisious
11-28-2006, 12:22 PM
Been thinking about that MM grip too.

Just weighing the options...sell, fixed, no evil features, etc.

BTW did you just call me "Ali?" Most people abbreviate to A or Alu. Ali just sounds...suspect.

YES YES TELL ME HOW TO MAKE THE ASSAULT RIFLE, PRAISE ...

And I'll end that joke right there.

luvtolean
11-28-2006, 12:25 PM
And how does "Ali" sound suspect?

Suspect of what?

Aluisious
11-28-2006, 12:27 PM
And how does "Ali" sound suspect?

Suspect of what?
Come on, I'm pretty "liberal" politically, and even I can figure it out.

luvtolean
11-28-2006, 12:29 PM
Help out a slow simpleton like myself.

etruscan
11-28-2006, 12:30 PM
this is a bizarre thread.

JOEKILLA
11-28-2006, 12:45 PM
Im sure it's a typo......"u" is next to "i". :D

grammaton76
11-28-2006, 12:46 PM
I'll bite. He saying that "Ali" sounds close to either "Allison" or "Allah"...

Aluisious
11-28-2006, 12:48 PM
Yes, Allison, that was it.

/buries the joke before it starts to smell

blkA4alb
11-28-2006, 1:38 PM
Yes, Allison, that was it.

/buries the joke before it starts to smell
Don't worry, it already smelled. :rolleyes:

Prc329
11-28-2006, 2:03 PM
Why not use something like JB Weld?

SemiAutoSam
11-28-2006, 2:06 PM
Right as they only say weld not a specific type of weld

JB WELD Saves the OLL industry Film at 11.

NSR500
11-28-2006, 2:09 PM
How to Weld an AR Magwell...

2 Parts JB Weld
1 Part Duck Tape
1 Part Rope
2 Zip Ties

;)

bwiese
11-28-2006, 2:11 PM
Right as they only say weld not a specific type of weld

JB WELD Saves the OLL industry Film at 11.


Jeezus, Sam, I hadn't thought of that. Beautiful.

I've yapped at you before, but you've come up with a good one.

Wheee - the DOJ keeps digging itself further in the hole - the more they specifiy in detail, the more they'll have to add for further clarification. This could end up in a 3- 4 revision cycle, and reverting to their 2000 statement (orig used about detachable magazines and, in essence, "you know what we mean") certainly won't fly from a regulatory standpoint.

We might even be able to pull out the Clintonesque "it depends on what the meaning of 'is' is..." (approximate quote).

rorschach
11-28-2006, 2:44 PM
We might even be able to pull out the Clintonesque "it depends on what the meaning of 'is' is..." (approximate quote).

Yes, but in the immortal words of the great Larry King: What do we "know" know??

DirtySanchez
11-28-2006, 2:59 PM
I've been away on business.
So isn't the prince50 still legal in CA?

rorschach
11-28-2006, 3:03 PM
As the current law is written, yes, they are.

SemiAutoSam
11-28-2006, 3:05 PM
Yes my MAG-LOCK kit and the Prince50 kit are both still legal at the moment.

Thanks Bill but i'm still Bent on making sure the GP hears of AM's blunders and I too have an agenda to let such things be seen by everyone.

Lets let the court of public opinion try her.

ghost
11-28-2006, 5:35 PM
i cant believe people still get messed with even if their guns are cali legal.

RANGER295
11-28-2006, 6:14 PM
I have yet to build one of my OLL’s. Primarily because I have been nervous about doing it. I am hoping to pick up some uppers and lower parts kits soon. I too have been trying to decide how to build them. I think I am going to do both a fixed mag kit and the MM Grip. I will leave it that way until things are a bit more clear. That way if one ends up not being ok, I can fall back on the other. I may remove one or the other on the ranch but would transport it and use it in public with both. Just a thought.

JPglee1
11-28-2006, 6:16 PM
I may remove one or the other on the ranch but would transport it and use it in public with both. Just a thought.

To each his own, but that's just overkill right there :D


Thats like wearing a 5-point harness and factory 3-point seatbelts in your car at the same time cuz you're not sure if DOT has approved the 5 points, lol....

J

hoffmang
11-28-2006, 8:01 PM
I've left my prince-50 kit on my U-15 build - but that has more to do with lazy and interchangeability than some sort of desire to overcomply.

That and I haven't gotten a new upper or removed the A2 flashider from the one upper I own currently.

-Gene

trouble
11-28-2006, 9:23 PM
Does anybody have a picture of a J-B Weld'ed magazine?

How would you separate it if you need to repair/replace the magazine? Without doing too much damage to the lower?

All theoretically of course, since the Prince50 and MagLock are clearly "to-the-letter" legal.

kap
11-28-2006, 9:54 PM
The JB weld idea was just floated today trouble by PRC329 (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=414937&postcount=26). I don't think anyone has tried it yet. I'm intrigued though, but that is not saying much since I busted out my duct tape and bailing wire at NSR500's (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=414943&postcount=28) suggestion.

Prc329
11-28-2006, 10:18 PM
I think I may make a stop at Home depot. I may just try this. I want to upgrade my mag with one of those magpul leveling followers first.

I have been thinking of how I would do this. If the magazine is made of metal couldn't I mix up the JB weld and run it on three sides of the magazine between the mag and receiver? I need to read on JB Weld some more first that way I know if I mess up is it easy to remove without completely destroying my mag or lower. I believe I would have a few hours to remove the JB Weld before it completely cured and was permanent.

http://jbweld.net/products/jbweld.php

Maybe put the JB Weld where I have colored red. Making sure mot to interfere with the receiver closing.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/naytwan/IMG_0514.jpg

blacklisted
11-28-2006, 10:27 PM
I don't think JB Weld would fly, but the definition still has many problems.

This is what the "modified proposed regulations" say:

(3) A firearm is not readily modifiable to receive a detachable magazine if, for

example:

(A) it does not have a magazine well;
(B) the magazine is fixed to the receiver by a continuous ribbon of welding around the perimeter of the magazine well, or by multiple ribbons of welding that are each at least one half inch in length;
(C) the magazine is fixed to the receiver with a rivet (or other irreversible
locking device) that is driven through the magazine well and fixed in place
with epoxy; or
(D) the modification requires disassembly of the action.

Notice that it says 'welding', not 'weld'. I think it would be better to go with (D).

HOWEVER

It is obvious that they have no experience with joining metals together and they should define what they mean by "welding".

Prc329
11-28-2006, 10:31 PM
(3) A firearm is not readily modifiable to receive a detachable magazine if, for

example:

(A) it does not have a magazine well;
(B) the magazine is fixed to the receiver by a continuous ribbon of welding around the perimeter of the magazine well, or by multiple ribbons of
welding that are each at least one half inch in length;
(C) the magazine is fixed to the receiver with a rivet (or other irreversible
locking device) that is driven through the magazine well and fixed in place
with epoxy; or
(D) the modification requires disassembly of the action.

It would still apply, don't you think? According to the website JB Weld is permanent once it cures so wouldn't you basically have to destroy the receiver to remove the magazine? I really don't see the DOJ having a leg to stand on if the mod is as permanent as JB Weld makes it self out to be.

blacklisted
11-28-2006, 10:35 PM
It would still apply, don't you think? According to the website JB Weld is permanent once it cures so wouldn't you basically have to destroy the receiver to remove the magazine? I really don't see the DOJ having a leg to stand on if the mod is as permanent as JB Weld makes it self out to be.

What I meant was that you can satisfy (D) without gluing in the magazine.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=41424&highlight=disassembly+action

Ignore most of what I said there, but focus on the principle. I tried this on one of my receivers, and it works:

I drilled a hole, tapped it, and installed a set screw that just touches the magazine catch. I did this with a handheld power drill (CAREFULLY!). The spring is not installed, and the magazine release button is threaded on further than usual (so it touches the screw). The bolt catch would then be installed over the set screw. I'll post pictures of the results some time.

Prc329
11-28-2006, 10:38 PM
What I meant was that you can satisfy (D) without gluing in the magazine.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=41424&highlight=disassembly+action

That is a great idea. I have been looking for a reason to buy a drill press :)

blacklisted
11-28-2006, 10:40 PM
That is a great idea.

It is only if they consider seperating the upper and lower (and removing the bolt catch) as disassembly of the action. I don't see how they can't.

Also note that these regulations have not been approved by the OAL, so they are not yet valid. There is really no sense in butchering anything yet :D

I decided to go with a detachable magazine and a MonsterMan grip for now.

hoffmang
11-28-2006, 10:41 PM
All,

Just remember that this is not likely going to be necessary. If anything I expect the pendulum will swing the other way to less invasive locks...

However, it remains funny that we can all still work around Iggy and Alison's attempt at changing things.

-Gene

RANGER295
11-28-2006, 11:06 PM
To each his own, but that's just overkill right there :D


Thats like wearing a 5-point harness and factory 3-point seatbelts in your car at the same time cuz you're not sure if DOT has approved the 5 points, lol....

J
I agree with everything you say. But I would rather be on the safe side. I do not want to be a test case. Here is my philosophy… They are going to pick a test case that they think they have the best chance of winning. They would look at my case, gripless and fixed mag, in a locked case, owned by a clean-cut conservative farm boy who is a district level Scout leader and well known for other volunteer work in the community, and will move on to someone else. Maybe some of that personal stuff wouldn’t make a difference, but I want to give them every reason to feel that someone else would make a better test case.

Aluisious
11-29-2006, 12:23 AM
I wouldn't even mind a mod that destroyed the magazine to remove it, but left the receiver relatively intact.

kap
11-29-2006, 12:38 AM
I think I may make a stop at Home depot. I may just try this. I want to upgrade my mag with one of those magpul leveling followers first.

I have been thinking of how I would do this. If the magazine is made of metal couldn't I mix up the JB weld and run it on three sides of the magazine between the mag and receiver? I need to read on JB Weld some more first that way I know if I mess up is it easy to remove without completely destroying my mag or lower. I believe I would have a few hours to remove the JB Weld before it completely cured and was permanent.

http://jbweld.net/products/jbweld.php

Maybe put the JB Weld where I have colored red. Making sure mot to interfere with the receiver closing.



I would not do it if I were you. Once JB-weld cures it is like steel and you may never uncouple the magazine from that lower without damaging both, so at least use a nice magazine. If you are seriously considering this I would clean and degrease all the metal surfaces so the JB-weld could stick well. After that slather the sides of the magwell and the magazine with JB-weld and then insert the magazine. Clean off the excess and let it cure. Let it cure for a couple of days before you put rounds through it.

It is possible that the shock of shooting could break down the epoxy over time and rattle the magazine loose leaving you with a now useless epoxy filled OLL.

grammaton76
11-29-2006, 12:48 AM
Another option here... not sure how viable it would be.

Come up with a metal collar to fit around the front of your magazine. Should be as simple as cutting down a piece of scrap metal to fit.

JB Weld the collar to the magazine, level with where it'll set with the rifle closed on the mag.

The resultant magazine should not be removable from the magwell by going DOWN... but if you flop the top open and undo whatever fixed-mag kit you're using, it then should be removable.

Provided that scissoring open the rifle would constitute disassembly of the action, you've just made it require the disassembly of the action to remove the mag, even if you undo the fixed-mag kit.

The most important thing here is, the ONLY thing you're JB Welding is the magazine and collar, not the receiver.

hoffmang
11-29-2006, 1:00 AM
The simplest way to "comply" with the new regs if you chose to is to drill and tap a set screw into your mag right next to where the bolt catch engages the magazine. I suggest doing it on the left/mag catch side.

It will clear your uppers, only modify the magazine, require opening the action (if the action is splitting your AR in half) and will retain your magazine.

Better to muck with a $20 part than the rest of your weapon, however the DOJ is wrong on the law. Just buy a Prince-50 or U-15/MM grip, build, and relax.

-Gene

Prc329
11-29-2006, 7:53 AM
The simplest way to "comply" with the new regs if you chose to is to drill and tap a set screw into your mag right next to where the bolt catch engages the magazine. I suggest doing it on the left/mag catch side.

It will clear your uppers, only modify the magazine, require opening the action (if the action is splitting your AR in half) and will retain your magazine.

Better to muck with a $20 part than the rest of your weapon, however the DOJ is wrong on the law. Just buy a Prince-50 or U-15/MM grip, build, and relax.

-Gene

I dought they can do anything about a legitimate mag lock or gripless builds. It is nice to have a backup plan.

I like the idea of making the mag removable from the top. I think that might be cutting it a little close though. The DOJ may say it is to easy to remove and be replaced with a regular magazine.

ARRRR-15
11-29-2006, 8:50 AM
Would this work for (c)?


http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p75/ARRRR-15/sec_ow_ohms.jpg

ARRRR-15
11-29-2006, 8:57 AM
That is a great idea. I have been looking for a reason to buy a drill press :)


It's about time!:D There's always a reason to buy a drill press.:D That's why you just buy one, then when you find a use for it(which isn't very hard) you already have one.:D

JPglee1
11-29-2006, 9:59 AM
For example, many people consider epoxies (two-component glue) to be permanent; a few people know that epoxy can be removed quite readily from metal components, using either moderate heat to soften it, or extremely nasty solvents (nasty, but available to amateurs). Obviously, this would not work on plastics (which either soften too, or are dissolved by such solvents), but it should work fine on an all-metal assembly.


JB weld comes off with heat.


J

SemiAutoSam
11-29-2006, 10:00 AM
Well not only a drill press but a 80% receiver jig to make sure the receiver is at a 90 Degree angle to the drill press (On in my case (Milling machine)) table.

And maybe also a good (Cheap) Harbor Freight drill press vice.

BTW as soon as I locate the correct HARDWARE I will be taking on this kind of work.

At the moment I'm also using a pin like this to capture the Selector detent and spring in the lower receiver a replacement for the SRB. Its removable by threading a small bolt into the end and pulling it out.

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j184/mag-lock/dd_pulldowels.jpg




It's about time!:D There's always a reason to buy a drill press.:D That's why you just buy one, then when you find a use for it(which isn't very hard) you already have one.:D

Aluisious
11-29-2006, 10:04 AM
It's sounding like JB weld is the way to go.

Hopefully rock solid, you could open it up and show a LEO that it's stuck in there good and won't come out. If you need heat from a blowtorch to get it out...well hell, you can get ANYTHING out of anything else using a BLOW TORCH, no matter how permanent it is. They'd be hard pressed to make that argument.

Prc329
11-29-2006, 10:05 AM
JB weld comes off with heat.


J

JB Weld claims it is good for up to 500 degrees and is safe to use on engine block repairs.

RANGER295
11-29-2006, 10:07 AM
I have used JB Weld to repair farm equipment where a metal part has broken off and I have built it up with JB and ground it to shape. I have not done this with a high stress part. I have used it to bond two pieces of metal together in high stress areas. I have also filled stripped holes with it or drilled out broken bolts and filled the holes, tapped them out, and they have held bolts fine. I know that it stands up to gas and diesel because I have used it to patch a couple of fuel tanks and used it to make a part for a carburetor on an old John Deer from the 50’s that I was restoring. So in short this stuff is a cut above regular epoxy. I do not know how it holds up to heat and I don’t know about solvents stronger than gas. But it has saved me from having to drag a welder and generator out to the field on more than one occasion. (maybe I should get a portable welder) Anyway that is my experience with the stuff for what it is worth.

JPglee1
11-29-2006, 10:09 AM
JB Weld claims it is good for up to 500 degrees and is safe to use on engine block repairs.

Ive used it for all sorts of stuff, it is indeed very strong, but it is also brittle.

If you need it for structural use, its prolly not the best choice, but for bonding 2 parts together that don't carry a load, its pretty tough **** :D



J

Prc329
11-29-2006, 10:22 AM
So it would be a good option?

SemiAutoSam
11-29-2006, 10:32 AM
As I understand it they are talking about where the mag well (bottom) meets the Magazine.

(3) A firearm is not readily modifiable to receive a detachable magazine if, for

example:

(A) it does not have a magazine well;
(B) the magazine is fixed to the receiver by a continuous ribbon of welding around the perimeter of the magazine well, or by multiple ribbons of welding that are each at least one half inch in length;
(C) the magazine is fixed to the receiver with a rivet (or other irreversible
locking device) that is driven through the magazine well and fixed in place
with epoxy; or
(D) the modification requires disassembly of the action.

So it would be a good option?

Prc329
11-29-2006, 10:34 AM
So use JB Weld at the bottom of the mag well? In effect sealing the mag well with the magazine of our choice? 10/20 so it doesn't look weird?

SemiAutoSam
11-29-2006, 10:51 AM
I would think putting the JB WELD (Read Epoxy as it is a 2 part mix type of glue) on the base of the mag well would make it easier to remove than putting the "JB WELD" between the mag and mag weld as it would be impossible to get a bead of actual weld in that same area.

If you wanted to remove it all you would have to do is smash the magazine body in a vice (after the follower and spring were removed and the bond between the mag and meg well would break and you just use a wire wheel to clean up the remaining mess.

I would only use a 10 round mag as to not bring any attention to the firearm.

So use JB Weld at the bottom of the mag well? In effect sealing the mag well with the magazine of our choice? 10/20 so it doesn't look weird?

xrMike
11-29-2006, 11:02 AM
JB Weld claims it is good for up to 500 degrees and is safe to use on engine block repairs.Yep, I've reed numerous accounts of guys riding their dirt bikes miles and miles out in the deep woods or desert, and cracking their engine case on a rock, or crashing and driving their rear brake lever into the engine case and cracking it, and then using JB weld on the crack. Evidently it holds up well enough for you to get back to your truck, and then some!

Prc329
11-29-2006, 11:11 AM
O.K., so here is my idea. use a 10 round mag with a 20 round body (I hate the look of a short mag), use a prince 50 kit to block the mag release button, then use JB Weld (I would be welding it :) ) on the bottom of the mag well to bond it to the magazine. That way like SAS said I could remove the mag by destroying it if I ever needed to replace it for some reason.

Think that would work if the DOJ trips and makes the new "rules" stick? I might just do it anyway just to be on the safe side.

RANGER295
11-29-2006, 11:19 AM
I know a guy that has an AR pistol with a 20rd fixed mag(it is registered). The weld is painted. If you did a good enough job with the JB and made it look like a “real weld” then painted it… it would probably be unlikely that the type of weld would ever be questioned.

JPglee1
11-29-2006, 11:27 AM
I know a guy that has an AR pistol with a 20rd fixed mag(it is registered). The weld is painted. If you did a good enough job with the JB and made it look like a “real weld” then painted it… it would probably be unlikely that the type of weld would ever be questioned.

I thought AR-15 magazines are aluminum with steel floor plates?? If they are, you could easily TIG weld them.

I've never actually checked myself, but they are so light weight I guess I just assumed they were aluminum too.

Are they???

If they are steel maybe I should start makine 10/20 and 10/30 AR mags too ;)


Nah, C products can have that market.


J

RANGER295
11-29-2006, 11:39 AM
I thought AR-15 magazines are aluminum with steel floor plates?? If they are, you could easily TIG weld them.

I've never actually checked myself, but they are so light weight I guess I just assumed they were aluminum too.

Are they???

If they are steel maybe I should start makine 10/20 and 10/30 AR mags too ;)


Nah, C products can have that market.


J
I have never used a tig welder, but I had assumed that the mag would be too thin. I know if I tried to do that with my mig welder I would blow right through it or at the very least distort the inside so that the follower wouldn’t work smoothly. Can you really do something that delicate with a tig welder?

JPglee1
11-29-2006, 11:53 AM
Can you really do something that delicate with a tig welder?

Yes, and I could honestly do it with a mig if they were both steel. How do you think RSSSLVR and myself make our limited capacity magazines? I do it all with a MIG welder, and we weld metal as thin or thinner than mag bodies all the time.

I have also MIG'd aluminum but its more for production on LARGE pieces, like milk tankers and stuff... MIG'd aluminum runs way too fast and hot for a small piece like that. You would wanna TIG weld it, if they were steel you could MIG it as it runs a lot slower and cooler in general than aluminum does.

But yes, you could very easily weld a mag to a magwell with a TIG if they are both aluminum.

Just remember when you're welding: "THICK TO THIN" start the bead on the magwell and drop the puddle to the mag body, then whip it back up to the magwell, and so-on.

Very basic welding techniques.



JP

RANGER295
11-29-2006, 12:00 PM
Yes, and I could honestly do it with a mig if they were both steel. How do you think RSSSLVR and myself make our limited capacity magazines? I do it all with a MIG welder, and we weld metal as thin or thinner than mag bodies all the time.

I have also MIG'd aluminum but its more for production on LARGE pieces, like milk tankers and stuff... MIG'd aluminum runs way too fast and hot for a small piece like that. You would wanna TIG weld it, if they were steel you could MIG it as it runs a lot slower and cooler in general than aluminum does.

But yes, you could very easily weld a mag to a magwell with a TIG if they are both aluminum.

Just remember when you're welding: "THICK TO THIN" start the bead on the magwell and drop the puddle to the mag body, then whip it back up to the magwell, and so-on.

Very basic welding techniques.



JP
I will fully admit that I suck at welding. I think grinders were made for people like me. I really should take a class or something.

thmpr
11-29-2006, 12:41 PM
It is great we are taking pre-cautious steps just in case the DOJ does stick the "capacity to accept " to the definition. But until then, there is no way I will modify by welding/JB weld the receivers. I do not want to ruin a perfect lower receiver of "maybe/s". Plus, by the way things are going they do not have anything right now.

shark92651
11-29-2006, 3:11 PM
I'm just going to stick with my Prince50's for now. It the new proposed changes do go into place I would opt for option D as it means I just need to drill and tap a set screw and secure the mag release from inside. This of course depends if they define cracking the rifle open as "disassembly of the action" - yet another ambiguous and ill-defined term. For me seperating the trigger assembly from the firing pin seems to be "disassembly of the action".

Or better yet, I'm going to just get a new MonsterMan when they become available and replace my flash-suppressor with a muzzle brake or thread protector and go open-mag. I'll be damned if I am going to weld or rivet anything on my rifle. :rolleyes: