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blood ()f the Lamb
05-05-2011, 11:21 AM
Basic .223 for 799.00? Looking for a fun gun used for HD CQC type situations. Good entry AR?

dieselpower
05-05-2011, 11:25 AM
Basic .223 for 799.00? Looking for a fun gun used for HD CQC type situations. Good entry AR?

sure, expect to replace some parts after a thousand rounds...nothing to get pissed about.

blood ()f the Lamb
05-05-2011, 11:29 AM
sure, expect to replace some parts after a thousand rounds...nothing to get pissed about.

Hmm ok moving on

OutkastSL
05-05-2011, 11:41 AM
I just ordered a delton upper. My friend has put through a few thousand rounds in his an has had no problems, he said it's reliable. There's always going to be wear and tear and if somethinndloesnt work, I'll use it as an opportunity to upgrade the parts.

Sig226
05-05-2011, 11:42 AM
I bought a Delton upper for my first AR way back when....At least 5 years ago...


Its still running like a champ, MOA at least with my reloads, and not a single part has been replaced. I shoot about 1k though it a month, sometimes a little less. (The hilarious part is that it wears a ACOG that costs more than the rifle itself...)


If you are into the high speed, low drag, gotta have it because Delta Recon Seal Team 69 uses it, then by all means---go Larue or similar.

If you want something that will handle just fine but won't win you any accuracy shooting competitions you should be squared with a Delton.

FWIW, I own a MRP and an Bushy upper too.... They run about the same, with better accuracy in my experience.

dieselpower
05-05-2011, 11:45 AM
Hmm ok moving on

pay now or pay later. $800 means they were probably built with lower quality steels and typeI coatings, which are thinner and less expensive than typeII or III.

If you are looking to shoot every weekend, several hundred rounds each time, I would expect a spring or pin to break. nothing you can not fix at home. I would expect things to get loose and need tightening. I would expect surface wear quicker than a more expensive gun.

Most complete uppers cost between $600-$1000, the whole firearm costing that much complete from a store means something had to give.

penciljockey
05-05-2011, 11:54 AM
Sometimes you can get quality items for less, because they still don't have the cache like other manufacturers. I have a Del ton and replaced some parts, because I just want reliability and spare parts. It works fine and I've had no problems with it whatsoever. Remember most of us go out and shoot on the weekends and clean and maintain our weapons. If you feel better buying a more expensive rifle and you can afford it, go for it. If you can't buy a more expensive rifle, buy a Del ton and you won't be sorry.

Ed_Hazard
05-05-2011, 11:58 AM
pay now or pay later. $800 means they were probably built with lower quality steels and typeI coatings, which are thinner and less expensive than typeII or III.

If you are looking to shoot every weekend, several hundred rounds each time, I would expect a spring or pin to break. nothing you can not fix at home. I would expect things to get loose and need tightening. I would expect surface wear quicker than a more expensive gun.

Most complete uppers cost between $600-$1000, the whole firearm costing that much complete from a store means something had to give.


The Delton is a good starter rifle, personally at that price I would assemble a rifle with that budget, stripped lower complete upper and such.

The problem nowadays is that their are way too many AR snobs who look down on a product simply because of cost and lack of brand recognition. The majority of the time they have no real first hand experience with the rifle they are dissing.

As far as pins and springs breakage, well all mechanical parts exeperience wear and fatigue and one should plan for failure regardless of the make.

Surface wear adds character, but can be minimised through proper care.

furfam4
05-05-2011, 12:20 PM
I want an AR but am too far a noob to assemble one myself. I watched the vid on brownells website and it looks complicated. How bout just buying a complete lower and upper put em together? I don't want to spend 6 months putting one together right now. Maybe in the future.

AeroEngi
05-05-2011, 12:29 PM
IMO, I would rather build my own quality AR (from parts that YOU chose) for $100 to $150 more than the price of the Delton. I built mine with a JD Machine (Calguns) lower and BCM carbine upper for $938. Plus, you learn a lot more about how the rifle works when you build it yourself.

Ed_Hazard
05-05-2011, 12:35 PM
I want an AR but am too far a noob to assemble one myself. I watched the vid on brownells website and it looks complicated. How bout just buying a complete lower and upper put em together? I don't want to spend 6 months putting one together right now. Maybe in the future.

You should check out the OLL assembly guide listed in the blue bars at the top of the page. If you can snap Legos together you can assemble a lower.
The good thing about assembleing yourself is that in the future if you wish to upgrade your internals, you'll have the know how to do it and the quality control of buying and installing yourself.


As`far as the upper goes, buy a complete upper from one of the many vendors or shops on the site. This is where the bulk of your budget should be spent. Personally for what I do with my AR's i like Stag uppers, currently on sale at Ammo Bros. by the way. :thumbsup:

And if you do go to the Ammo Bros. Cerritos store check out the HK416 22lr pistol by Umarex.

Joe
05-05-2011, 12:42 PM
for $800 you can build a complete stag rifle or buy a complete smith and wesson.

jkcerda
05-05-2011, 12:43 PM
Basic .223 for 799.00? Looking for a fun gun used for HD CQC type situations. Good entry AR?

you can build cheaper than that with decent parts.

Joe
05-05-2011, 12:48 PM
I want an AR but am too far a noob to assemble one myself. I watched the vid on brownells website and it looks complicated. How bout just buying a complete lower and upper put em together? I don't want to spend 6 months putting one together right now. Maybe in the future.

Assembling the lower is a joke. If you can make a chocolate milkshake, you can assemble a lower. It takes about an hour if you're being extremely careful and rereading everything 20 times. I've never built an upper but I'm pretty sure its more involved.

I'd recommend assembling your own lower. It'll allow you to see how the parts function and the feeling is rewarding.

AeroEngi
05-05-2011, 12:49 PM
I want an AR but am too far a noob to assemble one myself. I watched the vid on brownells website and it looks complicated. How bout just buying a complete lower and upper put em together? I don't want to spend 6 months putting one together right now. Maybe in the future.

It's not hard at all. We just put together my friend's lower last night in an hour. Buy a complete upper and you're set! You'll have a quality AR for just a tad bit more than that Delton.

furfam4
05-05-2011, 1:01 PM
If you can make a chocolate milkshake...lol. Ok will look into it. I'll check out that guide.

Joe
05-05-2011, 1:16 PM
Complete stag kit for $614 shipped. Add a stripped lower + 10 round mag + Bullet button and you have a complete rifle. Total cost would be the same or cheaper OTD than the Delton:

http://ar15sa.fatcow.com/store/page2.html

Complete S&W M&P15. After transfer fees the OTD price will be the same or cheaper than the Delton:

http://www.ddsranch.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=797

Joe
05-05-2011, 1:24 PM
If you can make a chocolate milkshake...lol. Ok will look into it. I'll check out that guide.

Seriously :) I first did it when the AR game was just getting started 5 years ago. We couldn't buy assembled lowers then and were always being told that lowers were going to be listed in two weeks so we had to get them asap. I couldn't believe how easy it was.

penciljockey
05-12-2011, 4:03 PM
Well I'm sure this isn't going to be my last AR, but I've been having lots of fun with it and no failures whatsoever. I did some upgrades just because. Wish ammo was cheaper so I could shoot more often. Pistol ranges just don't satisfy me as much. I'd rather shoot my pellet rifle at home. What can I say? I love looking through optics when I shoot something. LOL!

mlevans66
05-12-2011, 6:05 PM
It's a solid starter AR. Give it a whirl, killa. 2008 that rifle would have sold for $1100.00

cali_armz
05-12-2011, 6:17 PM
del tons are good rifles. i bought one about 8 months ago and have not had any problems. i spent a fair amount of time researching them as well, and it seemed as if the only negative comments were made by people who had no first hand experience with them, but disliked it because of the price.

Ripon83
05-12-2011, 6:33 PM
http://coldhandarms.com/zencart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=29&products_id=34

Everything you need but a stripped Lower as I understand it; and that'd cost you about $100 with DROS now days. That puts the total in less then $600 minus magazines. All in all these things are getting less expensive not more expensive...

But I agree with DP....you will want to add some of the components that might wear out quick on these - springs and such.

PS...Chrome Lined model is $50 more and probably worth that.

FeuerFrei
05-12-2011, 7:12 PM
When I am asked about an entry level AR I usually steer them to a brand they can be comfortable with and that it's also something I have had good luck with personally. No name stuff can be a crap shoot.
Stuff does break. It breaks when you are using it. :mad:
So, get yourself a spare parts kit. Springs, pins, gas rings etc.. Brownell's has them.
Good investment and can save a range day for you or a buddy.
Good luck.

Charlie50
05-12-2011, 7:22 PM
sure, expect to replace some parts after a thousand rounds...nothing to get pissed about.

Total BS! I have cases through my Delton (eats even cheap russian crap) and no replacement parts. BTW I have "name" ARs, no axe to grind.

Why does this snobish FUD have to surface... I know, Dieselpower yer just trollin and I bit.

SirGlockALott
05-12-2011, 7:39 PM
If you do not want to take the time to build one up, buy it!

missiontrails
05-12-2011, 7:47 PM
Um, final word on this.... DDS Ranch had/has Smith M&P15's for $679..... enough said.

missiontrails
05-12-2011, 7:49 PM
Correction: $649! F.....g cheap!

http://www.ddsranch.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=797&zenid=13kqe5orv89l531mhke11b4c56

I think for that price, I'm going to buy one and use it as a paper weight on my desk at work.

762.DEFENSE
05-12-2011, 8:09 PM
You can find a better deal on the same rifle. But Del-Ton in general is a decent company. Just remember you get what you pay for.

railroader
05-12-2011, 8:32 PM
I have 2 del-tons that have had zero issues, good rifles. I would recommend building a del=ton from a kit though. For that price you can get one that is chrome lined and you will pay no tax on the kit.

sleepercar
05-12-2011, 8:37 PM
IMO, I would rather build my own quality AR (from parts that YOU chose) for $100 to $150 more than the price of the Delton. I built mine with a JD Machine (Calguns) lower and BCM carbine upper for $938. Plus, you learn a lot more about how the rifle works when you build it yourself.

Agrt. It's not THAT difficult. You'll even have a sense of pride when it's all said and done knowing you had say in every piece of it.

tileguy
05-12-2011, 9:44 PM
i have built up 4 del-tons, no issues on any of them. guns and ammo just did a write up on them and they also say they are fine weapons.

hnoppenberger
05-12-2011, 9:53 PM
i recommend building uppers as well. i built a high power upper for about half the price of what bushmaster or white oak wanted for the exact same junk.
shoots sub moa (iron sights)

search for CMT suppliers online and you can have colt/noveske/stag building stock for less.

UNDFTD
05-12-2011, 9:55 PM
Just incase people don't know, the Del-ton that's 799 includes Magpul MOE stock, handgaurd, and PG.

110+ tax if bought separately.

Don29palms
05-12-2011, 10:13 PM
The link below is a complete Del-Ton rifle kit for $549. $800 is too much for a Del-Ton. I know a couple people that have them and they have been good rifles.

http://coldhandarms.com/zencart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=29&products_id=137

P.S. I've seen complete Del-Ton rifles at gunshows new for $600.

CK_32
05-12-2011, 10:18 PM
pay now or pay later.

Buy once cry ones... Aka you get what you pay for.. Either buy once and take the pain of dropping $1000 once rather than drop $700 here and then another $600 replacing all the parts that break and end up with one gun and almost another gun full of parts.....

Del ton works... But I wouldnt ever trust it with my life.. If I had a bat or that I would take that and the bat because I know its going to fail sooner or later and when it does ill have my bat..

My BCM M4 carbine.. I trust with my life... Its been proven time and time again and is a solid well made system. I trust every part on that rifle... Because I built it and every part on there is quality and has a good track record or it didnt go on my rifle

NorCalRedneck
05-13-2011, 1:49 AM
A lot of Delton haters in here that stick their nose up at the brand when they probably have no experience with them. The one thing I've found with Delton is that the people that have them love them and the only bad things I hear are from people that have never owned one.

I'd put my Delton up against any other brand rifle, BCM, LMT, whatever and have no fear that it would keep up just fine. Get a Delton and you'll be happy with it. Plus you'll have a few hundred left to spend on ammo and accessories.

FYI- I pieced together my rifle with a Delton 16" 5.56 chrome lined upper, Delton stripped lower, Rock River lower parts kit, Magpul CTR stock and foregrip and I think everything came to about $750.

Oh and I have about 1500 rounds through mine right now with no issues whatsoever. 1000 of those have been Tula steel cased.

summit2g
05-13-2011, 7:08 AM
I have a complete Del-Ton I bought from Turners and I have 400 rounds through it and not one jammed up. Everything seems to be fine. Here it is check it out.
http://i1013.photobucket.com/albums/af253/summit2g2/NC%20STAR/SAM_2162.jpg
http://i1013.photobucket.com/albums/af253/summit2g2/NC%20STAR/SAM_2165.jpg

missiontrails
05-13-2011, 7:18 AM
OP.. Delton @$799 + tax, + DROS = over $900. Smith Wessin M&P15 @ $649 + shipping ($25), + DROS ($25) + FFL transfer $45 (I use Gussler's, and that's what he charges) = $745 ... In that price range, how could you NOT buy the Smith over the Delton for $155 less? That would simply make NO sense to pass on the smith. For the $155 difference, you could slide on a VLTOR IMOD and buy $70 worth of ammo!!! Moe stock is nothing impressive, and has a crappy cheek weld.

summit2g
05-13-2011, 7:21 AM
Yeah true that.
I mainly bought mine because it came with the MOE kit.

missiontrails
05-13-2011, 7:26 AM
Dude, the Delton is chambered in .223???? If that's the case.... yuck. I'm just going off your first post where you said "basic .223."

summit2g
05-13-2011, 7:26 AM
it's not. It's chambered in 5.56

missiontrails
05-13-2011, 7:32 AM
it's not. It's chambered in 5.56

OK. Still, think resale down the road when you decide to upgrade.. The average Joe Blow is not going to know much about a name like Delton..... but S&W will ring a bell. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a S&W owner, but at least I know who's parts they use, how they are put together etc..... In this example it's like saying hey buddy, I can get you a Honda Civic for LESS than a Kia Forte.... in the long run, the Civic reigns supreme.

summit2g
05-13-2011, 7:34 AM
Yeah I feel you. True that. The S&W is a good buy for sure.

ZX-10R
05-13-2011, 7:49 AM
I have a frankensteinAR and it has a Delton upper...I am selling it to a friend. He likes it and how it performs. He gets nice groupings from it. I liked it as well...He has close to over 1000+ rounds through it not including the almost 500 I had through it. It is a mixmatch AR but it works and does what an AR has to do. He likes shooting it steel and with optics.

CK_32
05-13-2011, 8:45 AM
Oh and I forgot to add in my post it's also coming from turners........

Don't expect any good customer service unless your actually about to swipe the debit card. Other than that forget about it. Still better than field time and stock aid but still horrible service/information.

summit2g
05-13-2011, 8:51 AM
Yeah Turners is pretty horrible when it comes to customer service. It's basically just a place to buy guns. That's it.

its mcgavin son
05-13-2011, 9:03 AM
I've heard good things about Del-Tons.. I'm probably going to buy a complete upper from them, since I don't want to spend 1400+ for any other 14.5" assembly -- I can't find any freefloat low-profile uppers for less than $800

ArkinDomino
05-13-2011, 9:46 AM
I have no first hand experience with Delton but why buy one at that price point when there's reputable products for the same price or just a bit more?

Tzvia
05-14-2011, 6:44 AM
Hmmm....
I'm no expert like those who have put so many tens of thousands of rounds through them in harsh battle and come here to mention that if it's not some UBER brand it will fail the moment the SHTF.

Ok? I only assembled 9 ARs, (only 3 were complete uppers, I assembled the other 6 uppers), and have been shooting them since '06, but only at paper at the range. So take my humble opinion for what it is. I've used RRA, JP, Geiselle, WOA, Bushmaster, Delton, Saber Defense, Spikes, Larue, Troy, CMMG, Douiblestar, LMT, Vltor, Magpul and other brands of parts and ended up with good reliable weapons every time. One of those 3 uppers I bought assembled is a Delton, and it works as well as anything else.

As for price, you could do better with a stripped lower and then buying an upper (heck you can get a Delton kit, everything but the stripped lower), add your lower and have a fine weapon. Those Smiths are very nice too, so hunt around. Besides, my last jaunt into Turners was for a Remington 700 SPS on sale. Let's just say that I ended up buying a Remington 700p from Retting Guns in stead. Better service.

Don29palms
05-14-2011, 7:20 AM
AGAIN the link below is a complete Del-Ton rifle kit w/ stripped lower for $549. $800 is too much for a Del-Ton. Put it together and shoot it!

http://coldhandarms.com/zencart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=29&products_id=137

P.S. I've seen complete Del-Ton rifles at gunshows new for $600.

john.t.singh
07-08-2011, 4:27 PM
I bought the del ton complete from tuners and there is not a day I don't kick myself in the butt. The rifle itself is fine but I put together a custom rifle for the same price that blows the del ton out of the water

Turners is a rip off

Rebellious
07-08-2011, 5:00 PM
$290 Complete Stag Lower (http://www.riflegear.com/p-870-stag-arms-tactical-complete-lower-receiver.aspx) + $469.99 Complete PSA Upper w/YHM 5C2 Flash Hider, MOE Handguards, MBUS, and BCG (http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/2235.php) = $759.99

You save $18 on the MOE/MBUS combo and still under $800 before tax/DROS

Basic setup for $851.49 OTD that will most likely out live you or me:D

blazeaglory
07-08-2011, 6:41 PM
Assembling the lower is a joke. If you can make a chocolate milkshake, you can assemble a lower. It takes about an hour if you're being extremely careful and rereading everything 20 times. I've never built an upper but I'm pretty sure its more involved.

I'd recommend assembling your own lower. It'll allow you to see how the parts function and the feeling is rewarding.

Exactly. I would also invest in an AR15 punch set and a wrench and I think thats pretty much it for a basic upper/lower put together? Im not even sure if you need the wrench but it would be good to have.

CK_32
07-08-2011, 7:33 PM
1 I've seen deltons online for $500

2 it's turners.....

My $0.02

penciljockey
09-01-2011, 11:50 AM
Buy once cry ones... Aka you get what you pay for.. Either buy once and take the pain of dropping $1000 once rather than drop $700 here and then another $600 replacing all the parts that break and end up with one gun and almost another gun full of parts.....

Del ton works... But I wouldnt ever trust it with my life.. If I had a bat or that I would take that and the bat because I know its going to fail sooner or later and when it does ill have my bat..

My BCM M4 carbine.. I trust with my life... Its been proven time and time again and is a solid well made system. I trust every part on that rifle... Because I built it and every part on there is quality and has a good track record or it didnt go on my rifle

What parts exactly would you consider would make a cheapo Delton to be as reliable as yours so that "You depend your life on it"? Just curious.

penciljockey
09-01-2011, 11:52 AM
I bought the del ton complete from tuners and there is not a day I don't kick myself in the butt. The rifle itself is fine but I put together a custom rifle for the same price that blows the del ton out of the water

Turners is a rip off

How much did you buy it for?

blazeaglory
09-01-2011, 4:23 PM
Buy once cry ones... Aka you get what you pay for.. Either buy once and take the pain of dropping $1000 once rather than drop $700 here and then another $600 replacing all the parts that break and end up with one gun and almost another gun full of parts.....

Del ton works... But I wouldnt ever trust it with my life.. If I had a bat or that I would take that and the bat because I know its going to fail sooner or later and when it does ill have my bat..

My BCM M4 carbine.. I trust with my life... Its been proven time and time again and is a solid well made system. I trust every part on that rifle... Because I built it and every part on there is quality and has a good track record or it didnt go on my rifle


How do you gauge quality and track record? Because so far in this thread del tons "track record" is A+. Have you ever owned or fired a del ton?

If del ton build their complete rifles in the same fashion and quality as they build their uppers then there should be no worries.

blazeaglory
09-01-2011, 4:26 PM
1 I've seen deltons online for $500

2 it's turners.....

My $0.02

Could you help the OP by showing him where you seen del tons for $500? Im sure the help would be appreciated.

And could you elaborate on the turners comment? Ive found turners to be an OK place.

john.t.singh
09-01-2011, 5:02 PM
How much did you buy it for?

$800. It's the FDE one with magpul furniture. Don't do it.

I was stupid. I was a noob. Just came onto the gun scene and I wanted an entry level AR15 so I went out and bought the Del-Ton from Turners. Biggest mistake of my life.


1. If you want Del-Ton just build one yourself. You will save about $200-300

2. For $800 you can build your own with better parts. I built my own two month later so easy. If your lazy go to a store like Parallax and they will build it for you, for free.

3. Del-Ton lower's aren't quite milspec. I bought a CMC trigger and it wouldn't fit/work correclty in the Del-Ton lower. I had to sell it here on calguns for a huge loss. Then I went and bought a cheaper Aero lower, and guess what... trigger fits -_-

http://i1194.photobucket.com/albums/aa369/failure2elucidate/tumblr_lj015nQT8Z1qfmbsq.jpg

Rebellious
09-01-2011, 5:19 PM
for $800 you can build a complete stag rifle or buy a complete smith and wesson.

...enough said

AM9000
09-01-2011, 6:07 PM
They are generally considered the cheaper end of the spectrum in terms of both price and quality. You get what you pay for.

Still not as bad as a Vulcan.

6doubleR
09-01-2011, 9:35 PM
I recently built an AR with a Del-Ton complete rifle kit. You can check out the details here:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=468842

The fully built rifle with tax and dross was under $799 without the red dot.

If you are interested, and have questions, just PM questions. :)

penciljockey
09-02-2011, 6:08 PM
$800. It's the FDE one with magpul furniture. Don't do it.

I was stupid. I was a noob. Just came onto the gun scene and I wanted an entry level AR15 so I went out and bought the Del-Ton from Turners. Biggest mistake of my life.


1. If you want Del-Ton just build one yourself. You will save about $200-300

2. For $800 you can build your own with better parts. I built my own two month later so easy. If your lazy go to a store like Parallax and they will build it for you, for free.

3. Del-Ton lower's aren't quite milspec. I bought a CMC trigger and it wouldn't fit/work correclty in the Del-Ton lower. I had to sell it here on calguns for a huge loss. Then I went and bought a cheaper Aero lower, and guess what... trigger fits -_-

http://i1194.photobucket.com/albums/aa369/failure2elucidate/tumblr_lj015nQT8Z1qfmbsq.jpg

I put a CMC trigger in my Delton with no problems whatsoever.

penciljockey
09-02-2011, 6:09 PM
They are generally considered the cheaper end of the spectrum in terms of both price and quality. You get what you pay for.

Still not as bad as a Vulcan.

Considered doesn't mean anything. Popular opinion says the Jonas Brothers are the greatest band since the Beatles. LOL!

penciljockey
09-02-2011, 6:11 PM
I haven't had any problems and I've let all kinds of AR snobs shoot it and they scratched their head after. They were probably thinking, "Dang I spent way too much for my AR and all I do is shoot metal and paper. I should have got a Delton." LOL!

penciljockey
09-02-2011, 6:14 PM
Most reviewers think they're good and I did plenty of research before I bought one. I don't have the time to build one or I would.

Cyc Wid It
09-02-2011, 8:01 PM
As the OP says he wants it for HD and CQC, Del-Ton is not what comes to mind. If he said occasional trips to the range/BLM, then Del-Ton is more appropriate.

r6raff
09-02-2011, 9:28 PM
This again...

I personally have had bad experiences with Del-ton complete rifles, I will not go into detail because my experiences have already been posted on this forum already.

The only reason I decided to post was to make note that lately I have heard that Del-ton has stepped up their game a bit, all the issues I have experienced were with earlier generation systems, back when the gas keys weren't properly staked, sub sub sub par bcg etc... Seems like most the negative reports have been from earlier generation systems.

I still don't think I would buy one unless I found one for less than $500 otd and then I would use it for friends or as a spare, spare, spare or whatever.

Also, 1000-1500 rounds is barely broken in, start reporting at 6-7k rounds. Thats the thing that has really turned me off to DTI, I dont recall very many reports of people having little issues after 7 or 8 thousand rounds, in fact I don't recall hearing many people having Del-tons with more than a few thousand rounds. Any rifle will have zero malfunctions after a thousand rounds... (or should), my concern is how will it run after 6 or 7 thousand rounds.

My other turn off to DTI is that I have heard numerous instructors report issues with their rifles, highest rate of failure compared to any other rifle. But something to consider, I can see more people bringing cheaper weapons to classes etc. Makes sense, I'd rather burn through a cheap barrel than the expensive one right. So that could mean there is a higher population of Del-tons in any given group which would mean a higher chance of a Del-ton failing... still with me =D

Either way...

I will stand by BCM because mine has now close to, if not over, 10,000 rounds down the pipe and I can count the malfunction with 1 hand. Several occasions where I ran several hundred rounds through her in an hour or so, never stopping, never lubing, just ripping.

Plus there is the Filthy 14

Once Del-ton has had many years of service and solid reliability the past will be ignored.