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NSR500
11-27-2006, 5:42 PM
Looks like Kaiserworks finally got around to the FAL/AR Hybrid lower and hopes to have it finished in 2007. Here are some pics from falfiles...
http://thekaiserworks.com/images/FALAR-lower-1.jpg
http://thekaiserworks.com/images/FALAR-lower-2.jpg
http://thekaiserworks.com/images/FALAR-lower-3.jpg
:D

PanzerAce
11-27-2006, 9:30 PM
Im confused, what exactly is this again?

cornholio1
11-27-2006, 9:32 PM
Im confused, what exactly is this again?


hahaha...beats me. but the FAL was good enough by itself.

SemiAutoSam
11-27-2006, 9:35 PM
Looks like a billet FAL lower with AR15 fire control parts.

PanzerAce
11-27-2006, 10:03 PM
so is the only point then that it allows you to use the nicer AR trigger groups?

SemiAutoSam
11-27-2006, 10:06 PM
Please in your own words tell us why you think the AR parts are nicer ?

Ive always felt the FN components are not only better looking but also better functioning.

But Im a die hard FN FAL NUT.

I was given a FN FAL before I had a drivers license. so that could be part of it.

so is the only point then that it allows you to use the nicer AR trigger groups?

PanzerAce
11-27-2006, 10:16 PM
Please in your own words tell us why you think the AR parts are nicer ?

Ive always felt the FN components are not only better looking but also better functioning.

But Im a die hard FN FAL NUT.

I was given a FN FAL before I had a drivers license. so that could be part of it.

sorry, I meant the uber expensive AR trigger groups. Nicer as in pricier/smoother/etc when it comes to other AR triggers.

NeoWeird
11-28-2006, 12:53 AM
That thing makes me want to vomit!

Seriously, what is everyone's obsession with AR-****ing everything over? I don't want a stupid AR side folding "SOCOM" stock on my FAL, AK, HK, etc. I want factory parts, or parts specifically designed for it. Maybe it's me, but the AR is great when it's on an AR, but outside of that why spend all this money to adapt it as a semi-useful part on another gun when you could use half that money to simply create a new part or remodel an old part and make it even better?

Seriously, if they had just taken old FN plans and made a super nice adjustable trigger and made it a Para lower they would have made a better product that would be nicer all around.

thedrickel
11-28-2006, 1:00 AM
The idea behind it is that it allows the use of much better (like match grade) AR triggers in the FAL, which is generally regarded as having a crappy trigger. Also allows the use of the AR selector (much easier to use), and has a picatinny rail rear site which maintains the original sight lines (height). And it allows the use of AR collapsible or folding stocks. Requires the para bolt/carrier/top cover and recoil springs. The lower counts as one US part and allows the use of cheaper AR trigger groups as US parts (altho the lower aint cheap), but many people have AR trigger groups and stocks lying around.

Pryde
11-28-2006, 1:24 AM
That thing makes me want to vomit!

Seriously, what is everyone's obsession with AR-****ing everything over? I don't want a stupid AR side folding "SOCOM" stock on my FAL, AK, HK, etc. I want factory parts, or parts specifically designed for it. Maybe it's me, but the AR is great when it's on an AR, but outside of that why spend all this money to adapt it as a semi-useful part on another gun when you could use half that money to simply create a new part or remodel an old part and make it even better?

Seriously, if they had just taken old FN plans and made a super nice adjustable trigger and made it a Para lower they would have made a better product that would be nicer all around.

Its because more companies are willing to spend money developing newer and more advanced parts for the AR because it is popular and there is a lot of money to be made in that market. The FAL market is a dying market, as soon as all the kits and parts dry up there will be no more FALs. Only 60-70% of parts are manufactured stateside and doing so costs a heck a lot more than buying a rifle made out of refurbished foreign parts which are of better quality.

By making a lower receiver that can accept AR parts, FAL owners can benefit from the R&D and use newer parts intended for an AR.

PanzerAce
11-28-2006, 2:14 AM
pryde, there are always DSA FALs, so they will never actually disapear.

luvtolean
11-28-2006, 7:53 AM
The idea behind it is that it allows the use of much better (like match grade) AR triggers in the FAL, which is generally regarded as having a crappy trigger. Also allows the use of the AR selector (much easier to use), and has a picatinny rail rear site which maintains the original sight lines (height). And it allows the use of AR collapsible or folding stocks. Requires the para bolt/carrier/top cover and recoil springs. The lower counts as one US part and allows the use of cheaper AR trigger groups as US parts (altho the lower aint cheap), but many people have AR trigger groups and stocks lying around.

+1

The price of FAL receivers is so exorbitantly high, I can see spending the money for a billet receiver that allows a better trigger, and fixes the crappy human engineering of the FAL selector (which I despise).

It also allows for commonality when training with different weapons platforms. The fire controls are all in the "right spots" this way.

I like the FAL, but I think it's clearly a step between the M14 and M16 in regards to design.

Q
11-28-2006, 8:05 AM
it is quite ugly and i don't understand what the purpose of the whole design is for?

the dsa makes a extended selector. the original was hard to work for me with out shifting my grip. haven't tried the extended version.

i like how they made past folders. m96 folder i think they were the first? and how everyone is putting the adjustable rear sights on.

i think the original design is fine. it is battle tested! just might need a scope or reddot.

maybe a rival in the industry is trying to slow his production with a lot of project requests? or he is just trying to make something original.

SemiAutoSam
11-28-2006, 8:41 AM
I took a look at their website and while I have no idea what the lower receiver will cost from the site keep in mind the rear sight is 100.00 alone.

this puppy will be an expensive change to the FN FAL.

Its innovative but I like the FN FAL factory lower and internals better.

Pryde
11-28-2006, 9:58 AM
pryde, there are always DSA FALs, so they will never actually disapear.

Same deal with DSA.
Not all of their parts are US-made, a handful of their parts are still from their surplus parts reserves. Besides, a complete US-made FAL would probably cost a lot more than people are willing to pay for the rifle. If you read shotgun news, you'll notice that DSA's two page ad (which used to contain mostly FAL parts) consists primarily of AR parts and AR accessories now, which I think is the direction that they will take their business into in the future.

xenophobe
11-28-2006, 10:05 AM
What an abortion...

So now you'll need two serial numbered receivers...

NSR500
11-28-2006, 10:53 AM
I don't think you'll need serials on the upper and lower. I always thought the upper was the "firearm" with an FAL, so it got the serial.

-hanko
11-28-2006, 1:11 PM
Butt ugly.

I thought ar stocks on shotguns and sks's were ghey. This does take the cake.

-hanko

EBWhite
11-28-2006, 3:21 PM
Fixing a problem that never existed. Trying to sell a few more things...thats the whole point

Sydwaiz
11-28-2006, 3:39 PM
Hmm, interesting. If it's aluminum, how strong are the ears that hold the upper and lower together? Not that it's under a lot of stress during firing but if you tend to break it down a lot, it might make a difference.

NSR500
11-28-2006, 3:46 PM
Looking at it again and reading through some of ya'lls comments. It would not look too bad if they ditched the AR type stock mounting. If they keep it so it still maintains the traditional FAL style mounting; it would look better.

50 Freak
11-28-2006, 3:48 PM
Aluminum lowers on a FAL are no problems. On the older FN's they used something called Hibidium which was pretty much the same thing.

I'm know that the FAL's have horrible triggers, but a simple switch of springs can cut down the 8# trigger pull to something like a 4# trigger pull. And that only costs about $20 for a new set of springs.

With it on my Para it feels pretty good.

Warning. For those of you that do want to buy one of these lowers and put on an AR trigger group (especially one of the light match triggers) DON'T DO IT. With a FAL, with a lighter trigger pull you will "bump fire" quite often.

So doubles and tripples are common. It's very embarrising and scary when you are shooting your 9mm conversion FAL in a range full of FBI and SFPD. Ask me how I know.:( :(

cornholio1
11-28-2006, 4:18 PM
Aluminum lowers on a FAL are no problems. On the older FN's they used something called Hibidium which was pretty much the same thing.

I'm know that the FAL's have horrible triggers, but a simple switch of springs can cut down the 8# trigger pull to something like a 4# trigger pull. And that only costs about $20 for a new set of springs.

With it on my Para it feels pretty good.

Warning. For those of you that do want to buy one of these lowers and put on an AR trigger group (especially one of the light match triggers) DON'T DO IT. With a FAL, with a lighter trigger pull you will "bump fire" quite often.

So doubles and tripples are common. It's very embarrising and scary when you are shooting your 9mm conversion FAL in a range full of FBI and SFPD. Ask me how I know.:( :(


My FAL's stock trigger is realllllllly smooth (much smoother than a stock AR tigger pull). Maybe the springs were not stock in the parts kit, but the whole damn rifle is realllll smooth.

C.G.
11-28-2006, 5:12 PM
Aluminum lowers on a FAL are no problems. On the older FN's they used something called Hibidium which was pretty much the same thing.

I'm know that the FAL's have horrible triggers, but a simple switch of springs can cut down the 8# trigger pull to something like a 4# trigger pull. And that only costs about $20 for a new set of springs.

With it on my Para it feels pretty good.

Warning. For those of you that do want to buy one of these lowers and put on an AR trigger group (especially one of the light match triggers) DON'T DO IT. With a FAL, with a lighter trigger pull you will "bump fire" quite often.

So doubles and tripples are common. It's very embarrising and scary when you are shooting your 9mm conversion FAL in a range full of FBI and SFPD. Ask me how I know.:( :(

Rich at CGW did a trigger job on my Para. It is a lot better than standard, but not as good as my AR CMC trigger.

Pulsar
11-28-2006, 6:12 PM
The idea behind it is that it allows the use of much better (like match grade) AR triggers in the FAL, which is generally regarded as having a crappy trigger. Also allows the use of the AR selector (much easier to use), and has a picatinny rail rear site which maintains the original sight lines (height). And it allows the use of AR collapsible or folding stocks. Requires the para bolt/carrier/top cover and recoil springs. The lower counts as one US part and allows the use of cheaper AR trigger groups as US parts (altho the lower aint cheap), but many people have AR trigger groups and stocks lying around.


I never understood this, it's insanely easy to get a very nice trigger pull on a FAL. A light pull is easy, because the trigger return spring isn't connected to anything but the trigger, so no problem with lightening it. And the sear and hammer engagement is very simple, and it just takes polishing and removing some metal to reduce creep. I know my FAL with all stock parts has a 3lb pull and has absolutely no creep. Was one of the first guns I ever did a trigger job too.

Pulsar
11-28-2006, 6:14 PM
My FAL's stock trigger is realllllllly smooth (much smoother than a stock AR tigger pull). Maybe the springs were not stock in the parts kit, but the whole damn rifle is realllll smooth.

A stock AR trigger is not conducive to a good trigger. The way it's set up it's damn near impossible to get rid of creep. You can get a good pull out of them with an after market two stage trigger though.

JPglee1
11-28-2006, 6:14 PM
I never understood this, it's insanely easy to get a very nice trigger pull on a FAL. Was one of the first guns I ever did a trigger job too.

I agree also...its a super simple system.

BUT...some people don't/can't change their own oil, or mow their own lawns either... LOL


JP