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Dhena81
05-04-2011, 5:29 PM
Ok so I'm stepping up to the semi/custom market of 1911's and I found out a couple of things today I didn't know about. I started out wanting to sell my Sig XO to fund a TRP operator well I contacted Springfield and started a thread and asked them about the TRP part number what I found out pissed me off.

Basically Springfield makes a different part number for their TRP for CA sale so I can't just find a TRP OP online and order one I need to find one in CA. When I contacted Springfield they informed me the TRP operator was on a severe 9-12 month backorder.

So I thought well hell why don't I just order a Pro with a light rail and that's when everything went to hell in a hand basket.

I started thinking why don't I just look around and see what else I might entertain buying since 9-12 months is a long time.

So I started looking at different CA LEGAL 1911's so I first called nighthawk I said I want a GRP recon with the black diamond finish with a plain slide and a blended magazine well what am I looking at as far as time goes. He says about 12-14 weeks then he asked where do you live I said CA non LEO. Then he tells me oh CA ya he can't ship me a modified 1911 from the original roster approved model.

So I wouldn't be able to have the BD finish or have the slide w/o any markings I was pissed. Then I asked if he could just send me the frame that's a negative CA sucks he although did tell me he would give me a break after the fact on the BD finish. Then said to fire Pelosi and Boxer we laughed and I said ok thanks for the advise and hung up.

So here's the options for a single shot transfer

1. Nighthawk GRP recon $2699 w/ black diamond finish $375, Additional extractor fitted and tuned $85, Blended magazine well $150, no markings on the slide $0 12-14 week wait grand total $3459 with single shot and transfer - taxes.

2. Wilson combat CQBLR $2800 w/ speed chute $125, ambi safety $50, additional fitted and tuned extractor $60, no markings $0 I didn't even call on the wait I figured about similar with Nighthawk Grand total with all fees $3185

3. Baer Ultimate recon bead blasted blue $2290 w/ Baer magwell $95, additional extractor unknown cost probably somewhere in between. Grand total with fees $2535

4. Springfield Pro w/light rail $2500 with 9-12 month wait grand total with fees $2500

Cyc Wid It
05-04-2011, 7:11 PM
When you start hitting $2500+... you really might as well look at a full custom. GRP Recons can be found LNIB/NIB for around $2000, although probably not with naked slides.

http://www.louderthanwords.us/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6291
is on consignment for $3250

http://www.louderthanwords.us/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=8635
for $3450

or the father of all operators
http://www.louderthanwords.us/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=8724
for $5800

and some Chuck Rogers/CT Brian pieces floating around for more than that

InGrAM
05-04-2011, 8:22 PM
Jesus, I wish I had that kinda money to toss at something other than a truck or house payment.

Fishslayer
05-04-2011, 8:29 PM
Jesus, I wish I had that kinda money to toss at something other than a truck or house payment.

Me too. What can I say? if I had $2K+ for a gun I would run down to ASC & buy the 1961 Colt National Match they have in the case...guess I'm just not an "operator.":rolleyes:

Uriah02
05-04-2011, 8:35 PM
I'm not much of a 1911 expert. I haven't seen any reviews that really set Les Baer apart from Wilson/Nighthawk. I have a hard time beleiving Springfield would make a better pistol than a custom shop like LB.

asgalindez
05-04-2011, 8:43 PM
Me too. What can I say? if I had $2K+ for a gun I would run down to ASC & buy the 1961 Colt National Match they have in the case...guess I'm just not an "operator.":rolleyes:

You saw that too, huh? I drooled over it for a few moments thinking "What don't I really need that I can sell for that?".

jak77
05-04-2011, 9:15 PM
My vote goes to the Springfield Pro. I definitely want one in the future.

Q619
05-04-2011, 9:44 PM
They're all great guns but I'd go for either the Springfield or the Wilson. A crapshoot between the two. They're both about as good as it gets in ALL respects. Not a big fan of the Baer railed guns and for some reason don't like NH. I've got two Wilson CQB's, a Custom Shop Springfield and am waiting on a Pro. From personal experience, not only are both companies products and work top notch but DEALING with them is a pleasure.

IPSICK
05-04-2011, 9:59 PM
When you start hitting $2500+... you really might as well look at a full custom. GRP Recons can be found LNIB/NIB for around $2000, although probably not with naked slides.

http://www.louderthanwords.us/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6291
is on consignment for $3250

http://www.louderthanwords.us/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=8635
for $3450

or the father of all operators
http://www.louderthanwords.us/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=8724
for $5800

and some Chuck Rogers/CT Brian pieces floating around for more than that


Follow this suggestion considering your options. Why not go full house custom if you are willing to wait for the Springer Pro?

Dhena81
05-04-2011, 11:47 PM
I appreciate the replies guys. The only reason I was thinking of going with the NH is the diamond finish is supposed to be really hard wearing. One of the things I don't like about the NH is I think the logo is ridiculous on the slide.

I want a 1911 that is going to run like a clock ultra reliable the reason I want a light rail is I plan on taking some classes with it and most require a light. That plus I think it looks great on a 1911.

For some of you guys that commented on the price that is just the name of the game for these firearms. It makes me sick to think about the cost too but I really want something really top of the line. One of the reasons I don't want to go full custom like cyc wid it mentioned is not from personal experience but from people claiming they can be problematic.

9mmepiphany
05-05-2011, 12:59 AM
Your best buy for value and quality of the ones you've mentioned is the Springfield Professional. It really is more gun than a Wilson, Nighthawk or Brown. I think the Baer is the only one of the high end production shops that gives the Springfield Custom shop a run for the money.

Yes I've shot all of them extensively...I have friends who were very sharing and have more money than I...and there really is more than just appearance that sets them apart. The Brown was the prettiest, but the two best shooting ones were the Baer SRP and the Springfield Pro.

In that price range, I'd personally get a Dan Wesson CBOB and have it tweaked with an action tune, slide stop replacement, checkered MSH and new sights...but then I don't want a light-rail...and then have the whole thing done in Melonite

redcliff
05-05-2011, 3:32 AM
All of your choices are great.

I personally went with the Springfield Pro w/rail. It's my SHTF pistol and the ability to mount a light/laser combo is very handy.

Mine has been modified with Esmeralda slim grips (the lighting in the photo doesn't do them justice), short trigger and a very crisp 3.0lb trigger pull. Thats a lighter trigger pull than I'd recommend for most people, but I've been shooting 1911's regularly for over 30 years. It's very easy to shoot fast and accurately, is extremely tight, and has never malfunctioned from the 1st shot.

My friends love shooting it and are always amazed at the accuracy and the way the weight of the rail reduces the recoil.
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll137/ranjaz/IMG_0734600x450.jpg

Q619
05-05-2011, 4:20 AM
I appreciate the replies guys. The only reason I was thinking of going with the NH is the diamond finish is supposed to be really hard wearing. One of the things I don't like about the NH is I think the logo is ridiculous on the slide.

I want a 1911 that is going to run like a clock ultra reliable the reason I want a light rail is I plan on taking some classes with it and most require a light. That plus I think it looks great on a 1911.

For some of you guys that commented on the price that is just the name of the game for these firearms. It makes me sick to think about the cost too but I really want something really top of the line. One of the reasons I don't want to go full custom like cyc wid it mentioned is not from personal experience but from people claiming they can be problematic.

Nighthawk doesn't do the "diamond black" finish. They send the gun to Ion Bond and have them Tungsten DLC coat the gun and then call it by their own name. That's always bugged me.

Anyways, don't let that be the selling point of the gun. You can have the very same coating applied to ANY gun. Off the top of my head: John Harrison and Springer Precision will prep your gun and send it off for coating. Ion Bond won't take shipments from individuals. Only certain shops/smiths. I had it done to my Baer. I love it! Very hard wearing. I've been running my gun hard: no signs of wear and only a slight scuff in the past 1500 rounds. No holster wear even after a couple hundred presentations last week.

Fishslayer
05-05-2011, 7:20 AM
You saw that too, huh? I drooled over it for a few moments thinking "What don't I really need that I can sell for that?".
Abso-freaking-lutely gorgeous. And you just know it shoots as nice as it looks. Yeah! That's right. I said it! I would shoot that thing till the cows come home!:eek:

fennecfrank
05-05-2011, 7:37 AM
OP, have you considered Guncrafter Industries?

Model 1 and 2 are CA approved. In my opinion, it's better than WC, NH, LB, EB, and others. Long story short, I sold several of my Colts and an EB Special Forces (bought it after extensive research and chosen after handling WC, NH, LB) after I got my Model 2.

However, the wait is about 4-5 months.

chaseface
05-05-2011, 7:45 AM
"Other" and "dont even bother buy a glock" should DEFINITELY be two different choices

NiteQwill
05-05-2011, 8:08 AM
A Springfield Pro gives the MOST bang for the buck. It's hard to really beat (within similar price ranges). Second, I'd get a LB.

TMC
05-05-2011, 8:23 AM
I've got 3 Infinity pistols and 3 STI's and I am still SHOCKED at the prices being paid for a single stack 1911. Really, $3,500? 5,800?! I've built a dozen or more 1911's from parts and when you know there's about $700-$900 worth of parts (at retail) its amazing to me.

I'm not putting down the decision to buy a high-end gun, if you have the wear-with-all by all mean have at it. They are all good guns.

Wrex
05-05-2011, 8:27 AM
Todd Powers at Phantom Finishing also ships to Ion Bond and he's in california if you want to save on shipping.

vmwerks
05-05-2011, 8:56 AM
I have a Kimber Custom II, Springfield TRP, Springfield Champion - all are nice guns but I had a hankering for a custom 1911 too. I bought a low round count DLASK .38 Suoer upper and ordered an RIA 1911 in .38 Super. JRJ Custom Pistols is working everything over and I will be into the gun for about $2500 or so. IDK it's a project so I'm ok with it but in retrospect I'd have been better off buying a low round count Baer or other custom.

sava
05-05-2011, 9:09 AM
Springfield Professional.

After you read the FBI reports, you will know why the Springer is miles above the rest. Best bang for your buck, by far. As soon as I get done with college, it will be my first purchase to myself.

wamphyri13
05-05-2011, 9:28 AM
I would suggest a middle ground. Find a good used SA MC Operator and then send it to Chuck Rogers at Rogers Precision. Then you can get the exact gun YOU want. I had him customize my brand new Mil-Spec. Chuck is a great guy too. His level of detail is amazing. What you or I would look at and see as awesome, he finds flaws with. And it's his work. That's a guy I can get behind.
Ryan

m1match
05-05-2011, 9:40 AM
I've owned Baer's, Wilson's, and Nighthawks, they are all top notch 1911s. Most of my 1911s are full customs by Ted Yost, Bob Rodgers, and others. A full custom build will cost quite a bit more than any of these high end 1911s. The previous poster is right about Chuck Rogers work, he did the machine work on both my Bob Rodgers customs. The problem is Chuck is so backlogged that you might not even be able to get him to take any new work. I have shot Springfield Professionals and they are top notch, but they are not miles above the rest, contrary to what sava said.

My own personal taste is that the Baer's are too tight. A 1911 doesn't have to be so tight that you need gorilla hands to rack the slide. My Yost and Rodger's 1911s will shoot as well as the Baer's that I've owned and they aren't that tight in the slide to frame fit. The barrel upper/lower lug fitting and bushing fitting are the most important to accuracy. I think Bob Rodgers told me that slide to frame tightness contributes maybe 5% to the accuracy of a 1911.

So for me, I prefer Wilson, Nighthawk, and Springfield Professionals of the guns you've mentioned. For everyday use, the 20 lines per inch frontstrap checkering on the Springfield Pro is too sharp and coarse. After a day of shooting or a multiday class, your hands will be very sore and you'll probably have lost skin and be bleeding too. The Wilson has 30 lpi checkering which is still great for grip but not so sharp as to take skin off. I believe that the Nighthawk GRP has 25 lpi checkering on the frontstrap, which is a good compromise between 20 lpi and 30 lpi.

Dhena81
05-05-2011, 11:37 AM
"Other" and "dont even bother buy a glock" should DEFINITELY be two different choices

Your right it should be different choices the poll was done last and meant to be funny.

I like the Melonite idea never knew about the NH situation with the BD finish good to know stuff.

I think I may get started with the Springfield pro then go from there 9-12 months won't go that long it has some features I want that would cost me extra money with SS, shipping, and transfer if I went with the Wilson, NH, and Baer. Because of CA law nothing can be safe other than pistols they have tested lets face it if you switch out a main spring housing or omit slide machining they need another 50k.

I really don't want to go with a piece that I need a bushing wrench to disassemble. I'm new to 1911's but I really just love the platform this won't be the last one I buy by any means unless I get married or something even crazier happens. You guys know way more about builders and such that I wouldn't even know where to begin to search for the info I guess I could join a 1911 forum. I may only get to buy 2 guns this year between this 1911, bolt gun, and shooting addiction.

Cyc Wid It
05-05-2011, 1:23 PM
I've got 3 Infinity pistols and 3 STI's and I am still SHOCKED at the prices being paid for a single stack 1911. Really, $3,500? 5,800?! I've built a dozen or more 1911's from parts and when you know there's about $700-$900 worth of parts (at retail) its amazing to me.

I'm not putting down the decision to buy a high-end gun, if you have the wear-with-all by all mean have at it. They are all good guns.

Top end smiths do a lot of machine work and make a lot of their own parts. Sure you're getting diminishing returns, but there's still multi-year waitlists for these builds so they must be doing something right.

m1match
05-05-2011, 1:51 PM
If you've ever done smithing work on a 1911, you know that those top end smiths put a LOT of hours of hand fitting into every gun and you know that they aren't getting rich when you consider how many hours go into a full custom 1911. Almost nothing in a 1911 is drop in and that's why top quality 1911s of any make are expensive. The gun was designed in at a time when labor was cheap and machinery expensive. Now it's the opposite, machinery is cheap and labor is expensive.

vmwerks
05-08-2011, 7:42 AM
I've got 3 Infinity pistols and 3 STI's and I am still SHOCKED at the prices being paid for a single stack 1911. Really, $3,500? 5,800?! I've built a dozen or more 1911's from parts and when you know there's about $700-$900 worth of parts (at retail) its amazing to me.

I'm not putting down the decision to buy a high-end gun, if you have the wear-with-all by all mean have at it. They are all good guns.

I hope you don't think you're building the same pistols as the custom guys are. Doing it right is very labor intensive. Back about 24 years ago a friend and I used to assemble a lot of 1911's for fun. They are easy to assemble - build from parts - but we never ever considered them "custom" guns. Now that I can afford a "real" custom gun I can really appreciate the difference.

1911Luvr
05-08-2011, 11:50 AM
If you've ever done smithing work on a 1911, you know that those top end smiths put a LOT of hours of hand fitting into every gun and you know that they aren't getting rich when you consider how many hours go into a full custom 1911. Almost nothing in a 1911 is drop in and that's why top quality 1911s of any make are expensive. The gun was designed in at a time when labor was cheap and machinery expensive. Now it's the opposite, machinery is cheap and labor is expensive.

You are correct sir. I've spent MANY hours at my gunsmith's shop watching and learning everything I could about the intricacies of custom 1911s, and for a real smith there is almost nothing that is "drop-in". Even something considered as simple as a safety replacement that most people would drop in gets special treatment in the form on matching the edge profile to properly flow from the frame's grip area, smoothing the tooling marks, rounding the thumb rest and deburring the serrations, and properly fitting so there is no binding or tight points that inhibit a perfectly smooth operation. Now take this attention to detail and apply it to the entire firearm and you will understand what a real 1911 fit by a custom smith is all about.

9mmepiphany
05-08-2011, 1:30 PM
A lot of it has to do with how correct you want a 1911...and your definition of correct.

When my smith was working on my latest, he mentioned that he was re-lining it. That perked up my ears, as my prior exposure to re-lining had to do with relining barrels to different calibers. He calmed me by explaining that the contour line above the trigger guard, on Colts, commonly aren't straight. If you want to see it, hold your frame up to your eye and sight down the frame from the rear...that is one of the custom touches of a custom 1911.

One of the most beautiful revolvers I've ever seen was a S&W M-10 that a revolver smith had worked on. Every flat surface was flat, every corner square, every curved surface was on a constant radius and a nice hand polish...just that and a nice hot blue made that gun the rival of any M27 or a Python

IPSICK
05-08-2011, 8:54 PM
I hope you don't think you're building the same pistols as the custom guys are. Doing it right is very labor intensive. Back about 24 years ago a friend and I used to assemble a lot of 1911's for fun. They are easy to assemble - build from parts - but we never ever considered them "custom" guns. Now that I can afford a "real" custom gun I can really appreciate the difference.

You'd really have to see TMC shoot his guns and the guns themselves. He's not just making legos. He does custom work but most likely just for himself.

Custom makers are great and all, but at some point you may just be paying a premium for the name. What I mean by this is that their work is the best of the best but you may end up paying $500-$1000 more because of the name. Not that it isn't deserved because they worked hard to build that reputation.

Ism415
05-08-2011, 8:59 PM
picked up my NH talon today! the thing is godlike

quickstop
05-09-2011, 7:37 AM
Why does the extractor need to be tuned an a $2500 pistol? just curious.
Sorry....didn't read the part about additional extractor

TMC
05-09-2011, 8:12 AM
I hope you don't think you're building the same pistols as the custom guys are. Doing it right is very labor intensive. Back about 24 years ago a friend and I used to assemble a lot of 1911's for fun. They are easy to assemble - build from parts - but we never ever considered them "custom" guns. Now that I can afford a "real" custom gun I can really appreciate the difference.

No...I'm not building custom guns

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=97187&stc=1&d=1304953680

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=97188&stc=1&d=1304953873

IPSICK
05-09-2011, 9:36 AM
No...I'm not building custom guns

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=97187&stc=1&d=1304953680

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=97188&stc=1&d=1304953873

Show Off. :D That is one beautiful SVI. Did you really do the slide and frame cuts yourself? Been a while since I've seen a pic of that gun. I can only imagine how smooth the trigger is.

goldduster
05-09-2011, 9:58 AM
Maybe I should duck for cover, but what about one of the Kimber Gold's? Not a Wilson but the price sounds more of what you are looking for.

TMC
05-09-2011, 10:08 AM
Show Off. :D That is one beautiful SVI. Did you really do the slide and frame cuts yourself? Been a while since I've seen a pic of that gun. I can only imagine how smooth the trigger is.

Yes, I did all the milling, I have a Sharpe 3hp 9x42 mill. Both have 2lb triggers. I'm waiting for USPSA to allow a 6" sighttracker, when they do I'll change the barrel in the Limited gun.

bombadillo
05-09-2011, 10:12 AM
I'd contact Ron Phillips. He does anything you want for a 1911 and can customize as mild or wild as you'd like. He was one of the founders of Nighthawk Custom and branched off to start his own thing. His 1911's are some of the smoothest, cleanest 1911's you can find. They aren't a whole lot to look at IMO but they are some of the best running guns out there.

Another good bet is CT Brian on louderthanwords.us His lead time is gonna be forever but he's a really solid smith and can do anything you want for customs. If you're going to be dropping 2500-3k or more on a gun, go with a full on house custom by a big name. You're already gonna wait for quite awhile so may as well make it worth your time. Start out by DROSing a frame and send it in to your smith of choice and wait the time. Its going to be worth it in the long run.

Dhena81
05-09-2011, 10:34 AM
I'd contact Ron Phillips. He does anything you want for a 1911 and can customize as mild or wild as you'd like. He was one of the founders of Nighthawk Custom and branched off to start his own thing. His 1911's are some of the smoothest, cleanest 1911's you can find. They aren't a whole lot to look at IMO but they are some of the best running guns out there.

Another good bet is CT Brian on louderthanwords.us His lead time is gonna be forever but he's a really solid smith and can do anything you want for customs. If you're going to be dropping 2500-3k or more on a gun, go with a full on house custom by a big name. You're already gonna wait for quite awhile so may as well make it worth your time. Start out by DROSing a frame and send it in to your smith of choice and wait the time. Its going to be worth it in the long run.

NH told me I can't DROS a frame is that not true? BTW thanks for the leads.

IPSICK
05-09-2011, 10:39 AM
Yes, I did all the milling, I have a Sharpe 3hp 9x42 mill. Both have 2lb triggers. I'm waiting for USPSA to allow a 6" sighttracker, when they do I'll change the barrel in the Limited gun.

:thumbsup: Great job.

bombadillo
05-09-2011, 11:10 AM
NH told me I can't DROS a frame is that not true? BTW thanks for the leads.

You wouldn't have to dros a frame from them. You could DROS ANY frame so long as they're willing to do the work on it that you specify. There should be no reason they couldn't take any frame and customize it in any fashion you would like if they're worth their salt. If they wouldn't do something like this for you, go to another custom shop. CT Brian is hands down my favorite as he makes really classy looking weapons and is such a master of his craft.

tacticalcity
05-09-2011, 11:20 AM
Those are all really nice 1911s. It would a difficult choice for me to choose between a Les Baer, Wilson Combat or Ed Brown (which you didn't list). I am surprised the Springfield is winning. Perhaps just more non-1911 guys know who Springfield is and have not heard of the other high-end brands? Don't get wrong, that is a very nice 1911, but I would not take Springfield over the others.

I voted for get a Glock because the Ed Brown Special Forces that I want wasn't listed, and because when it comes down to it, in a firefight I would rather have a Glock. High End 1911s are like a Ferrari. Amazing works of art, that when running right are as good as they get. But they are also high maintence to keep them running that well.

bombadillo
05-09-2011, 12:05 PM
Those are all really nice 1911s. It would a difficult choice for me to choose between a Les Baer, Wilson Combat or Ed Brown (which you didn't list). I am surprised the Springfield is winning. Perhaps just more non-1911 guys know who Springfield is and have not heard of the other high-end brands? Don't get wrong, that is a very nice 1911, but I would not take Springfield over the others.

I voted for get a Glock because the Ed Brown Special Forces that I want wasn't listed, and because when it comes down to it, in a firefight I would rather have a Glock. High End 1911s are like a Ferrari. Amazing works of art, that when running right are as good as they get. But they are also high maintence to keep them running that well.

Agreed with the first paragraph, but the second, I don't think I agree. I think a high end 1911 fitted properly and really done up is going to run flawlessly. I believe its a misconception that high end guns that are tightly fitted are finicky about ammo, charge, yada yada. I have a highly customized 1911 and it'll feed anything, I've yet to have a malfunction of any sort, and its probably the tightest 1911 I've ever felt. I'm comparing it to Ed Brown, Nighthawk, Wilson and my Dan Wesson (although the last isn't really a custom) and it feels as tight or tighter than all of the others. Feeds like a champ, runs expensive defense ammo, ball, steel cased, Blazer aluminum and everything equally well.

Dhena81
05-09-2011, 12:52 PM
I think the 1911 is one of if not the finest fighting pistols ever designed. I tend to agree with what I heard from Larry Vickers first and that you need to be your own armorer in the field when running a 1911. By that I mean you need to be able to effectively diagnose and fix problems with your weapon but the same can be said for any weapon for that matter. I've been looking around for a 1911 field maintenance class I'd really like to attend a quality class in the future if you guys happen to know of any let me know. I think most of the problems with a 1911 can be traced to first the quality of magazines and after that the extractor spring tension.

redcliff
05-09-2011, 2:16 PM
Those are all really nice 1911s. It would a difficult choice for me to choose between a Les Baer, Wilson Combat or Ed Brown (which you didn't list). I am surprised the Springfield is winning. Perhaps just more non-1911 guys know who Springfield is and have not heard of the other high-end brands? Don't get wrong, that is a very nice 1911, but I would not take Springfield over the others.

Or perhaps they're very experienced 1911 guys who know the specifications and goals Springfield achieved to win the FBI Critical Incident Response Group contract; i.e. 1.5" 10 shot 25 yard groups with a notoriously inaccurate round (Bill Wilson claimed the round was only capable of 1.25" at 25 yards from an accuracy test fixture), 2,500 rounds between cleaning with zero malfunctions allowed and minimum 50,000 round life. Springfield beat out Wilson and Les Baer withdrew from the competition.

bombadillo
05-09-2011, 2:18 PM
Yeah, those professionals are definitely right up there for specs as the Browns, Wilson, Baer, etc. I would own one of those proudly!

wamphyri13
05-09-2011, 10:48 PM
I'll add a photo if it helps.
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i250/wamphyri13/DSCN0547.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i250/wamphyri13/DSCN0684.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i250/wamphyri13/SAMil-Spec.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i250/wamphyri13/p21.jpg
Ryan