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View Full Version : 3 vs. 5 shot groups Why?


diego-ted
05-04-2011, 12:34 PM
Why is there so much made between the diffrence when talking rifle MOA?
Just wondering?

diego

17+1
05-04-2011, 12:40 PM
The more rounds fired per group gives a more realistic idea of accuracy capability.

I prefer 10 round groups, with time for the barrel cool down between shots. Gives me a better idea of what the rifle is capable of.

AeroEngi
05-04-2011, 12:41 PM
I think it's because of sample size. For example, say you wanna create a poll so you ask a certain number of people...the more people you ask, the more accurate the poll would be. Same thing with 3 vs 5 shot groups. With a 5 shot group, you're getting a bigger "sample size" so you're more accurately able to determine how the gun is shooting. This is just my opinion so maybe I'm wrong.

rero360
05-04-2011, 12:42 PM
Think of it in the term of statistics, the larger the sample pool the more accurate the results.

pacrimguru
05-04-2011, 12:43 PM
like the other say, bigger sample size. i like doing 5 to make sure i wasn't just lucky with the first 3.

jumpthestack
05-04-2011, 12:44 PM
If you're shooting the group to sight in your gun, with a 3 shot group, if you have 2 close together and one flyer, it's possible that the 'flyer' was the good trigger pull and the 2 other ones were yanked. In that case, adjusting the sights to the two that were close together would be bad. That kind of thing is less likely with a 5 shot group.

Divernhunter
05-04-2011, 1:44 PM
If you really want to know how you and the rifle shoots then shoot your target then save it. Date it and put the load/rifle/weather info on it. The next time use an exact same unshot target. Put the 1st target behind the new one and do your group. Write info on the second target. After you do this for several times you can look at the 1st target and see how you and the rifle are doing and then compare each target to it and each other.

SilentScream
05-04-2011, 2:04 PM
Here is good read...

http://www.ak47.net/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=279218&page=1

OutlawDon
05-04-2011, 2:06 PM
3 shot groups are great for bragging on the internet.

10 shot groups is a nice reality check and truly shows potential of weapon system and the shooter.

I myself, prefer 1 shot groups. :p

RugerNo1
05-04-2011, 2:09 PM
I have been told this over and over:

3 checks the rifle's performance
5 tests the shooter
10+ tests/challenges both

bombadillo
05-04-2011, 2:10 PM
Another thing to think about is that if your gun can consistently hit a bullseye on a single cold bore shot, you're good to go as a deer hunter. If you aren't going for groups but cold bore consistency, then a hot barrel doesn't mean crap. If you take 3-5 shots to take down an animal, it may be a whole different ball game at 300, 500 or more yardage. Some hunters I know only take one single shot at a bullseye and then move on to the next target. With my target AR, I used to run that mother hot hot hot and consistently still get inch groups shooting 5 shot groups.

BamBam-31
05-04-2011, 2:10 PM
Here is good read...

http://www.ak47.net/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=279218&page=1

That's the article I was thinking of. On Snipers Hide, their group size requirements are even more stringent.

JaeFern
05-04-2011, 2:10 PM
Just take one shot and say you threw 10 rounds through the same hole... That's the ultimate in Internet bragging. Probably something you'd see from a poster like Gecko45

pyro3k2
05-04-2011, 2:12 PM
+1 to the above posts, If I shoot just three rounds with my PSL I can claim it's a 1 MOA rifle, but more realistically after shooting the whole mag it's a 2-3 MOA rifle

Rock6.3
05-04-2011, 2:22 PM
If you're shooting the group to sight in your gun, with a 3 shot group, if you have 2 close together and one flyer, it's possible that the 'flyer' was the good trigger pull and the 2 other ones were yanked. In that case, adjusting the sights to the two that were close together would be bad. That kind of thing is less likely with a 5 shot group.

Great job jumpthestack, well explained!

Paper Boy
05-04-2011, 2:22 PM
I myself, prefer 1 shot groups. :p

oooooo .224 sized groups from a beat to crap AR?:D

CK_32
05-04-2011, 3:07 PM
What's easier... To make 3 lucky shots from half court or 5??

Same thing as shot groups it's a lot easier to just get lucky and shoot a .2 MOA group with 3 shots than it is with 5.... Most amazing groups are just luck anyways... I've shot sub .5 MOA groups with both my 700 and AR.. But I couldn't do that every day all day and neither can most other people...

My best was a .14 MOA group.. But I couldn't do that again to save my life... But 5 instead of 3 just means you can do it more consistently then getting 3 lucky strings.

Some forums actually ban people for posting 3 shot groups... Just shoot 5 and prove it wasn't just luck and you cut it 2 shots short to takethe picture and look better than challenge your self to shooting that same group with 5 shots...

Iggy
05-04-2011, 3:19 PM
Well I don't know. I've put a lot of thought into this since there seems to be a lot of opinions without fact.

I've talked to a few well known rifle builders and the standard to test a rifle has always been 3 shot groups. Even the marines use 3 shot groups to zero their rifles.

I was also told that in a situation where you have to put a round on an object your first shot is the most important and the following 2 should be in the same spot or close by. In tactical comps the most important shot is the cold bore one. So in this sense testing the shooter and the rifle could be in the first 3 shots.

I like to shoot 5 shot groups because it challenges me, the shooter. I can almost always put 3 or 4 shots right on top of each other. Then I get excited and or inconsistent and open my group.

Snipers Hide has these rules mostly because it's to see how good the shooter is. Most of the time I would say the shooter opens the groups up, which is why they have the 5x5.

http://iggycorp.com/gun/USI040311s.jpg

This way you can't just brag about the 1 group that was good and have a bunch of ****ty ones. It kind of lays it all out there.

I use 3 shots or less to test the zero and accuracy. 5 shots to challenge myself.

21SF
05-04-2011, 3:32 PM
Lol, so your suppose to measure from center to center? that makes some of my groups better!!!

Iggy
05-04-2011, 3:35 PM
Yeah! Hypothetically, if you shoot 5 rounds and they are in the same hole with a .308, your group isn't going to be .308. Like wise if you shoot the exact same group with a .223 did you shoot a better group with a .223 because the hole is smaller?