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sendithit
05-04-2011, 7:56 AM
What's the lightest 16" complete AR-15 (.223/5.56) out of the box from a manufacturer?

If there is no such thing, what did you do to your AR-15 to make it lighter and still maintain integrity, reliability and function?

What do you use you lighter-weight AR-15 for?

Photos of your lighter-weight AR-15 here would be cool, too!

EDIT: I'd ask about the platform in .308/7.62 as well, but I imagine you'd want some weight for a harder recoil/hitting rifle for follow-up target acquisition control. Oh what the hell.....add this caliber to these questions as well.

THANKS!!!!

Bigbird19
05-04-2011, 7:58 AM
I know that the obr predatar is roughly 6.2 pounds, before optics and what not. Pretty impressivde

i1800collect
05-04-2011, 8:00 AM
Bushmaster Carbon 15 - 5.5lbs w/out a magazine

ETA: To make an AR you already have or are planning on building lighter, the easiest way would probably be to look at the components and use ones that are lighter weight. Use a light stock like a CTR. Don't use a quad rail if you don't need or want the rail space. Use something like the Troy/Viking Tactical TRX.

For even more weight saving, you can look at barrel profiles. Using a lightweight barrel profile rather than a government or medium profile won't have a noticeable effect on accuracy, durability, reliability, or function on a semi-auto.

pacrimguru
05-04-2011, 8:09 AM
i got to handle the the LaRue OBR Predatar and man, is it light. i was very impressed. an alternative would be Daniel Defense. DD makes LW rifles. take this one for example, 6 lbs 5.3 oz with a rail: https://danieldefense.com/rifles/carbine-length/daniel-defense-m4-carbine-v2-lw.html

here's one that i made using a DD LW 16" mid-length barrel. weighs in at 6 lbs, 12 oz without a mag but that weight does include the aimpoint. it could have been lighter, but i used a vltor mur-1a and vltor a5 recoil system which are both heavier than standard parts.

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk62/pacrimguru/AR-15%20LW%20URX/a5155ab5.jpg

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk62/pacrimguru/AR-15%20LW%20URX/2ce01fc0.jpg

dieselpower
05-04-2011, 8:16 AM
Bushmaster Carbon 15 - 5.5lbs w/out a magazine

ETA: To make an AR you already have or are planning on building lighter, the easiest way would probably be to look at the components and use ones that are lighter weight. Use a light stock like a CTR. Don't use a quad rail if you don't need or want the rail space. Use something like the Troy/Viking Tactical TRX.

For even more weight saving, you can look at barrel profiles. Using a lightweight barrel profile rather than a government or medium profile won't have a noticeable effect on accuracy, durability, reliability, or function on a semi-auto.

and to add to this, the Model 97 is even lighter. I have heard these are very Glock-ish with regard to limp-wristing feed jams. Rapid firing without pressing into the shoulder may cause the BCG to hick-up and jam the cycle. The same is true for a Glock. Its a matter of understanding you are giving away weight and must compensate with force.

I shot the heck out of a R97F (http://www.bushmaster.com/catalog_carbon15_AZ-C15R97F.asp) and it was a blast. Never had an issue on that day. The handguards are very very comfortable...its like you are carrying a water gun its so light...LOL

sendithit
05-04-2011, 8:16 AM
I likey....I liked ALOT!!! Keep'em comin!!!

missiontrails
05-04-2011, 8:22 AM
Hmm... that Larue is something...

Bigbird19
05-04-2011, 9:15 AM
i got to handle the the LaRue OBR Predatar and man, is it light. i was very impressed. an alternative would be Daniel Defense. DD makes LW rifles. take this one for example, 6 lbs 5.3 oz with a rail: https://danieldefense.com/rifles/carbine-length/daniel-defense-m4-carbine-v2-lw.html

here's one that i made using a DD LW 16" mid-length barrel. weighs in at 6 lbs, 12 oz without a mag but that weight does include the aimpoint. it could have been lighter, but i used a vltor mur-1a and vltor a5 recoil system which are both heavier than standard parts.

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk62/pacrimguru/AR-15%20LW%20URX/a5155ab5.jpg

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk62/pacrimguru/AR-15%20LW%20URX/2ce01fc0.jpg

Details on rail system? That hing looks sweet!

Looks like a modified KAC rail

evidens83
05-04-2011, 9:45 AM
Plumcrazy complete lower + BCM lightweight upper = :thumbsup: heavy unused Rails, VFGs, lights, fake lasers, need not apply ;)

sendithit
05-04-2011, 10:00 AM
I imagine the .223/5.56 that are used in 3gun or any hi-speed competition are better on the lighter side, yes? And the .308/7.62 not so much?

wash
05-04-2011, 10:30 AM
For a light weight .308, wait for the ITS-12, it's a AR10/AR15 hybrid designed to fit a DPMS style .308 lower.

It uses a streched AR15 style bolt carrier with a special bolt and barrel extension that are AR15 sized, so the front end can take AR15 handguards and other parts.

I believe the weight on 16" .308s is a little over 7 lbs without optics. That's with a pretty normal barrel profile also, no pencil barrel.

I think there is one prototype for sale right now, the production piece with a forged upper will be in production hopefully this summer.

Barabas
05-04-2011, 11:23 AM
My "Israeli-clone" A2 carbine without a magazine weighs 5lbs 15.9oz. :D

If I used a slickside A1 like I should have, I could have shaved at least 6oz. from that figure. A 14.5" barrel with a pinned Ti flash hider would reduce that even further. I don't know Jack about the plastic guns...

Droppin Deuces
05-04-2011, 11:36 AM
What's with the current obsession with lightweight guns? Is it because more women are getting into shooting, or is it because more men who are getting into shooting are like women?

pacrimguru
05-04-2011, 11:38 AM
Details on rail system? That hing looks sweet!

Looks like a modified KAC rail

thanks, it's a KAC LW URX rail.

MacDime
05-04-2011, 11:48 AM
Carbon fiber handguard would help with weight.

Harley
05-04-2011, 11:59 AM
My Larue PredatAR. .556

canative
05-04-2011, 12:06 PM
If your rifle is too heavy for you, maybe you should start working out. lol.

Erin
05-04-2011, 1:23 PM
carry arround my 15 lb romy rpk for a couple days and then go back to ar carbine.

21SF
05-04-2011, 1:34 PM
I could prob run and gun with my 15 lbs R700. Take some protein or weight gainer.

wash
05-04-2011, 2:46 PM
A lighter gun = more ammo.

But really, two lbs. of dead weight on your rifle is going to lead to increased fatigue if you are carrying it all day.

I get the suck it up mentality but that two lbs is waste.

While I'm sure none of us are humping cross country all day, if you did that two lbs might be the difference between a hit and a miss at the end of the day when you are tired.

If it's waste and doesn't do anything valuable, why have it on your rifle?

CHS
05-04-2011, 3:19 PM
7.0lb's exactly:
http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m446/bdsmchs/DDXVMOEKISS.jpg

Barabas
05-04-2011, 5:41 PM
What's with the current obsession with lightweight guns?
Is there one? I haven't noticed. I have noticed a strong KISS current recently. People are finding out that spending $3k on a space gun and accessories doesn't make them a better shooter.

Is it because more women are getting into shooting, or is it because more men who are getting into shooting are like women?
This is my reason for putting together a lightweight. My wife thinks the FAL is too heavy and she has trouble reaching the trigger, so I built her a lightweight carbine.

I introduce new shooters often enough that having a lightweight, adjustable LOP, modern rifle around makes sense. The .22's only take a shooter so far. It's nice to be able to get their EBR on, if they're open to it.

sendithit
05-04-2011, 5:42 PM
If your rifle is too heavy for you, maybe you should start working out. lol.

Oh, don't get me wrong...I can carry a 12lb piece of long metal just about all day long and not cry about it...being of manly-man dimensions helps lol. That being said, the reasons I asked the original questions at the top of the thread are:

1) sheer curiosity

2) as a thread participant said, "better pointability" = good for hi-speed competition

3) I know of two non-combat/non-military trained women who are interested in the AR for target plinking/competition/home self-defense (although I think a 12ga or 20ga shotgun is better suited for HD), but don't like the weights of my COLT 6920 and my BUSH/MEGA build

4) cuz I wanna build "the lightest of my ARs" for myself one day just cuz iz'all

This so-called "weight obsession" another participant spoke of is NOTHING compared to the "weight-weinnies" of the racing road-bicycle crowd....not THAT'S weight obsession to the nth-degree!!!! LOL

scootle
05-04-2011, 5:42 PM
What's with the current obsession with lightweight guns? Is it because more women are getting into shooting, or is it because more men who are getting into shooting are like women?

If your rifle is too heavy for you, maybe you should start working out. lol.

I could prob run and gun with my 15 lbs R700. Take some protein or weight gainer.

i don't understand this sort of answer to any discussions of light(er)weight tools. maybe it's because i'm an engineer, but for most civilians especially, efficiency is a good thing. why carry around extra pounds unless there is a purpose? maybe if you are mindless meathead, more pounds is more efficient? ;) anyhow, no offense meant, it's just a strange point of view and serves zero purpose other than internet chest-bumping, imho. :chris:

my build from around the holidays is described in this other thread from a while back (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=376091). i got a workable middy-carbine coming in around 7.5lbs w/ optic, which isn't a feather, but it's pretty easy to handle. there were a few places i could save some extra ounces, but chose not to -- like the choice of optic and such. i have some better pictures stashed somewhere, but i think my old thread gives you the gist of what's going on. i run a TLR-1s at 12 o'clock (not shown) for the lighting system.

when i was planning things out, there were plenty of ultra-light options out there if you want to go all-out for weight savings... right down to full carbon fiber builds, removing even little things like the forward-assist, re-profiling barrels to even thinner than the pencil profiles, going SBR (not an option in CA, obviously), going full slick-side config, non-collapsible stocks, forgoing any rail systems, etc.

it really depends what your application is, what your goals are, and how much $$$ you plan to spend.

one thread that can be a great place to start pondering options is here on M4C.net: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=39599

sendithit
05-04-2011, 5:48 PM
I visualize MY daylight-only target plinking/hi-speed competition AR as a K.I.S.S. build...yup!

calishine
05-04-2011, 5:53 PM
i got to handle the the LaRue OBR Predatar and man, is it light. i was very impressed. an alternative would be Daniel Defense. DD makes LW rifles. take this one for example, 6 lbs 5.3 oz with a rail: https://danieldefense.com/rifles/carbine-length/daniel-defense-m4-carbine-v2-lw.html

here's one that i made using a DD LW 16" mid-length barrel. weighs in at 6 lbs, 12 oz without a mag but that weight does include the aimpoint. it could have been lighter, but i used a vltor mur-1a and vltor a5 recoil system which are both heavier than standard parts.

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk62/pacrimguru/AR-15%20LW%20URX/a5155ab5.jpg

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk62/pacrimguru/AR-15%20LW%20URX/2ce01fc0.jpg

PG,

WHere can I get one of those rails? Do you sell them? Thx in advance

G-forceJunkie
05-04-2011, 9:00 PM
We don't like fat chicks either. A 10 pound AR is IMHO an abomination. What's with the current obsession with lightweight guns?

Droppin Deuces
05-04-2011, 9:51 PM
We don't like fat chicks either. A 10 pound AR is IMHO an abomination.

10lbs? I have a target gun that weighs all of *gasp* 8.2 lbs. with billet receivers, 11" rail, scope, bipod/adapter, and VFG. What else can I add? My standard AR weighs a shade over 7lbs. How does one build a 10lb AR? I want to do this.

wash
05-04-2011, 10:04 PM
24" bull barrel, UBR stock, heavy rail, US Optics steel body scope, bipod, etc.

Or do it the easy way with a ~.50 BMG bolt action upper.

Toast
05-04-2011, 10:08 PM
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/8826/myoll.jpg
Just under 6lbs empty

I wanted a simple light rifle, because an AR is supposed to be lightweight and handy. I might add a light handguard (samson evo) and a small scope later but it's still gonna be light. I personally don't see the point of having a 10+ pound AR, you might as well go .308.

nrakid88
05-04-2011, 10:57 PM
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/8826/myoll.jpg
Just under 6lbs empty

I wanted a simple light rifle, because an AR is supposed to be lightweight and handy. I might add a light handguard (samson evo) and a small scope later but it's still gonna be light. I personally don't see the point of having a 10+ pound AR, you might as well go .308.

Beauty, shame to see that grip fin.

I want one just like this, simple as pie. Except 16'' light weight bcm midlength upper, which would be a flat top, and use a MaTech rear sight, which may save weight over the carry handle.

glbtrottr
05-05-2011, 12:18 AM
Taran Butler has an interesting build.
VLTOR upper, PRI Carbon Free floating handguard, JP Skeletonized bolt, low mass JP buffer, on one he has a badger fluted 17" rifle length barrel, VLTOR stock, larue Accupoint mount, PRI tunable gas block.

The recoil is light to the point of laughter. Mine is similar, working on light and eliminating recoil.

C.W.M.V.
05-05-2011, 12:52 AM
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/8826/myoll.jpg
Just under 6lbs empty

I wanted a simple light rifle, because an AR is supposed to be lightweight and handy. I might add a light handguard (samson evo) and a small scope later but it's still gonna be light. I personally don't see the point of having a 10+ pound AR, you might as well go .308.

Im not even a fan of the 16, but that is sexy.
My A1 cant be that much heavier when its all assembeled, not too sure though.

bigevil
05-08-2011, 11:39 AM
Daniel Defense Lightweights are incredible, just got the mid-legnth M4V5 LW [6lb 5Oz]. Check the carbine version DDM4V4 Light (https://danieldefense.com/rifles/carbine-length/daniel-defense-m4-carbine-v4-lw.html) 6lb 2oz

hcbr
05-08-2011, 12:17 PM
If your rifle is too heavy for you, maybe you should start working out. lol.

:D :thumbsup:

nrvnqsrxk
05-08-2011, 3:08 PM
Out of the box, I thought the KAC SR15 E3 was light. I think they're like 6.5 lbs? But the rifles mentioned in the other posts are lighter already.

Regarding the move toward lighter rifles, I think we can attribute it to the consumer base maturing. Since the assault weapon ban sunset and AR's were legalized, people getting into it had to have latest and greatest, which meant many newbs were heavily accessorizing the AR even before they even got a chance to fire it, emulating builds that looked amazing. I know I did, when I first started planning my AR build. I was already looking into replacing the handguard with a DD Omega rail. Fast forward a couple of years.

It's been almost a decade after the sunset, and shooters are realizing that most of those add-ons (rails, lasers, foregrips, lights) aren't needed and made carrying the weapon for an entire day fatiguing. It's hard to argue that maneuvering into dynamic shooting positions is easier accomplished with a 7 pound rifle as opposed to one weighing 10 pounds. Especially when you throw repetition into the mix via drills. Hence, the move toward going back to the basics and adding components as needed. Most people run with optics and foregrip, adding a light if anticipating low-light training/shooting.

I think the most popular ways of lightening the load as of late is going with

a lightweight stock like a CTR
a light handguard/rail like a MOE/VTAC/KAC URX/comparable tube rail,
having a light weight barrel profile (who needs an HBAR barrel when you can't shoot auto?)
light optic like an Aimpoint H-1/T-1

What's with the current obsession with lightweight guns? Is it because more women are getting into shooting, or is it because more men who are getting into shooting are like women?

I think only the people that are training, taking classes, or competing are simplifying their setups. Lighter weight = saved economy of motion = faster times / less time taken.

norcal-ar
05-08-2011, 3:14 PM
Taran Butler has an interesting build.
VLTOR upper, PRI Carbon Free floating handguard, JP Skeletonized bolt, low mass JP buffer, on one he has a badger fluted 17" rifle length barrel, VLTOR stock, larue Accupoint mount, PRI tunable gas block.

The recoil is light to the point of laughter. Mine is similar, working on light and eliminating recoil.

since you are going lighter and for less recoil are you planning on shooting 3gun or tac rifle or is this strictly for personal preference ?

Poppy83
05-08-2011, 5:34 PM
10lbs? I have a target gun that weighs all of *gasp* 8.2 lbs. with billet receivers, 11" rail, scope, bipod/adapter, and VFG. What else can I add? My standard AR weighs a shade over 7lbs. How does one build a 10lb AR? I want to do this.

My recent AR comes in at 9.9lbs with bipod, 13" rail, scope, UBR, and full 30-round mag. I can shoot if off-hand no problem, but it feels heavy once I pick up my 7 pound AR. I am interested in that Bushmaster someone posted above that is under 5lbs. It's more out of curiosity.

mlevans66
05-08-2011, 8:02 PM
What's with the current obsession with lightweight guns? Is it because more women are getting into shooting, or is it because more men who are getting into shooting are like women?

This thread has officially got'un BRUTAL!:eek:

C.W.M.V.
05-08-2011, 8:20 PM
What's with the current obsession with lightweight guns? Is it because more women are getting into shooting, or is it because more men who are getting into shooting are like women?

Has more to do with the fact that every ounce gets heavy after youve been walking for 30 miles.

When it was first desinged the AR was built to be above all other considerations light weight.

timbo399
05-08-2011, 8:25 PM
Daniel Defense Lightweights are incredible, just got the mid-legnth M4V5 LW [6lb 5Oz]. Check the carbine version DDM4V4 Light (https://danieldefense.com/rifles/carbine-length/daniel-defense-m4-carbine-v4-lw.html) 6lb 2oz

Yes the DD LW series (Light Weight) uses the pencil barrel and they are ridiculously light. I have a DDM4V4 with Eotech XPS3 on it and I am a huge fan. Amazing how maneuverable it is in close quarters. Weighs 6 lb 2 oz and the new model Eotech is very light as well. My new favorite carbine.

glockwise2000
05-08-2011, 9:08 PM
Hhhhmmm... I would say that lower and upper receiver would always be the same weight no matter what. Where I think you could shed the excess weight is through the barrel. I would suggest get anything that has a pencil barrel. It would knock off a pund or two. IMO.

whippet
05-08-2011, 10:41 PM
When it was first desinged the AR was built to be above all other considerations light weight.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g2/clcman/UtahFarmHouse/SP1pic.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g2/clcman/UtahFarmHouse/5lbs119ox.jpg
I have an SP1 slabside, circa 1974, orig. factory configuration, weighs 5 lbs. 11.9 oz. without a magazine

7.62 Charlie
05-08-2011, 10:54 PM
\
I have an SP1 slabside, circa 1974, orig. factory configuration, weighs 5 lbs. 11.9 oz. without a magazine

Whoa thats light!

C.W.M.V.
05-08-2011, 11:45 PM
Im curious to see what my A1 will weigh when done.

blazeaglory
05-09-2011, 5:49 AM
What's with the current obsession with lightweight guns? Is it because more women are getting into shooting, or is it because more men who are getting into shooting are like women?

lol!!

anyways, i thought this lightweight barrel was nice, pricey though
http://calegalmags.3dcartstores.com/CALEGALMAGS-Custom-Light-Weight-Upper_p_358.html
http://calegalmags.3dcartstores.com/thumbnail.asp?file=assets/images/img_0036.jpg&maxx=300&maxy=0

pointedstick
05-09-2011, 7:22 AM
You can get a 6 pound AR with modern components really easily if you use a pencil barrel and don't pile on other heavy stuff. If you're gonna go this route (and I recommend it!), forget the conventional wisdom. Many modern free-float tubes and rails are actually an ounce or two lighter than the handguards they replace, such as the Midwest Industries SS series or the Troy TRX series. Stay with a CAR or M4 stock instead of the popular CTR to save 2-4 oz. Don't put on heavy lights. Avoid carry handles, especially rail-mounted carry handles. One of those is like 9 oz compared to 1.6 oz for a Troy folding rear sight. Stay with the standard flash hider, or at least don't put a big honkin' thing on the end. Even the popular MIAD grip is about an ounce heavier than the standard grip. Every ounce counts.

BobbyZ
05-09-2011, 9:16 AM
I got an upper from JD Machine Tech because I wanted it light. It was a lightweight barrel and this hand guard. The handguard is good cause it's light, feels good, just covers the gas block on a 16" barrel and you can add piccatiny rails to it when needed instead of having rows and rows. Order a set of 3 rails from them for $30 cause they are concave on the bottom to fit the guard perfect. You can also rotate the guard 180 degrees to have the full length strip of holes to put the rails on at the top or bottom. Depending on what setup you want. The other 3 sides only have holes for rails at the ends. It's perfect for me.
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/tube21.jpg

glock_this
05-09-2011, 9:22 AM
SHOOTRITE KATANA by Red Jacket (http://www.redjacketfirearms.com/) is "reported" to be 6lb black rifle

BobbyZ
05-09-2011, 9:34 AM
Two pics of my setup. Don't have a scale though.
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/Capture.JPG
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/Capture26.JPG

Lead Waster
05-09-2011, 9:56 AM
Just put together my JD Machine lower with DPMS A3 Flattop upper with 20" SS Bull barrel....

9.4 lbs

HOLY CRAP that barrel is heavy!

But of course, it's a range gun so whatever. Once I tack on a scope and bipod it'll be over 10lbs.

Nice thing about the AR-15 platform is that if I feel the need for a lighter rifle, I can by a new upper/barrel, without going through the expense/hassle of a new lower... and there is only one of me, so I don't need two seperate rifles in the safe.

nrvnqsrxk
05-15-2011, 3:36 PM
I just wanted to add that while I haven't really shot an AR yet, I've been reading a lot and finding that while lightweight guns are nice to lug around, felt recoil is increased due to lighter mass. Intuitively it makes sense. Maybe someone that has shot both can compare.

NiteQwill
05-15-2011, 4:25 PM
I just wanted to add that while I haven't really shot an AR yet, I've been reading a lot and finding that while lightweight guns are nice to lug around, felt recoil is increased due to lighter mass. Intuitively it makes sense. Maybe someone that has shot both can compare.

Recoil is the same. Unless you weigh 50 pounds.

I run a LW with a BC 1.5 and an H3 buffer and it feels almost like a .22LR.

PuppY_K1ck3R
05-15-2011, 4:30 PM
Hhhhmmm... I would say that lower and upper receiver would always be the same weight no matter what. Where I think you could shed the excess weight is through the barrel. I would suggest get anything that has a pencil barrel. It would knock off a pund or two. IMO.

Sort of. Most uppers are identical in weight. That is until you use a Vltor MUR which is considerably heavier than most uppers.

CHS
05-15-2011, 4:30 PM
felt recoil is increased due to lighter mass. Intuitively it makes sense. Maybe someone that has shot both can compare.

Nothing to compare. What you said is factually true. Period.

A lighter AR will have more recoil and muzzle flip than a heavier AR.

An AR with a flash hider will have more recoil and muzzle flip than an identical AR with a muzzle brake.

However, 5.56 is 5.56. So the difference is not going to be huge between guns.

PuppY_K1ck3R
05-15-2011, 4:33 PM
I built mine and it weighed out to 7lbs 2 2/4 oz. with an empty mag and no optic. Pretty light IMO considering that it is sporting a 13.2" rail.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2282/5694372759_6b42aa712f_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jumb5150/5694372759/)
Jumbo AR 4 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jumb5150/5694372759/) by jumb5150 (http://www.flickr.com/people/jumb5150/), on Flickr

BOFH
05-15-2011, 4:35 PM
I just wanted to add that while I haven't really shot an AR yet, I've been reading a lot and finding that while lightweight guns are nice to lug around, felt recoil is increased due to lighter mass. Intuitively it makes sense. Maybe someone that has shot both can compare.

A pound or two won't make a big difference in felt recoil..13 vs 6 punds, perhaps, but even with hot ammo a 6lb AR does not have much recoil. Its not 22lr recoil (my 6lb 10/22 hardly moves) but its not bad at all for most people.

nrvnqsrxk
05-16-2011, 10:00 AM
Thanks for the feedback. I've been reading reports on 14.5 middy's + Battlecomp 1.5's + H buffer feels just like a .22lr conversion. Regardless, I think I'm going to stick with a 16 middy, so I can play with different configurations and not have to deal with a pinned flash-hider or muzzle brake. I'm willing to trade a little maneuverability for modularity. LW AR's to me are 6-9 pounds anyway.

BOFH
05-16-2011, 2:15 PM
Anyone that says that any .223/5.56 feels 'just like' .22lr is simply not being honest...its minimal recoil for sure..but c'mon, its not 'just like' .22lr :)

Joe
05-16-2011, 2:19 PM
Anyone that says that any .223/5.56 feels 'just like' .22lr is simply not being honest...its minimal recoil for sure..but c'mon, its not 'just like' .22lr :)

It may not be exactly the same but its very damn close. My ar's kick about twice as hard as my winchester '94 in .22. Which is still insignificant.

razorscs
05-16-2011, 2:24 PM
10lbs? I have a target gun that weighs all of *gasp* 8.2 lbs. with billet receivers, 11" rail, scope, bipod/adapter, and VFG. What else can I add? My standard AR weighs a shade over 7lbs. How does one build a 10lb AR? I want to do this.

Mine weighs in at about 17 lbs with bull barrell, PRS, EOP upper, etc. It would probably do best as a club in a Close Quarters situation :D

Capita159
06-04-2011, 12:12 AM
Thanks for the feedback. I've been reading reports on 14.5 middy's + Battlecomp 1.5's + H buffer feels just like a .22lr conversion.

That doesn't apply to AR15 rifles that are in the sub 5lbs category. My girlfriend's rifle is 4lbs and 14.2oz without a magazine. We went from a DPMS three slot brake to a Battle Comp 1.5, and there wasn't much recoil difference. The battle Comp was a bit quieter and did a better job on muzzle climb. But at $155.00, there is one brake IMO that beats "THE" battle Comp. And the brake is "THE" DPMS Miculek brake. With the Miculek installed, we noticed the action was smoother, the recoil felt better, yet the device is a bit louder. But for a third of a price of a BCE, the Miculek brake is well worth it.

If you want a ultra light AR out of the box, check this out, R97F (http://www.bushmaster.com/catalog_carbon15_AZ-C15R97F.asp) 4.3lbs

Here are pictures of our ultra light weight:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5267/5749267349_c9e4550933_z.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5073/5795489803_cd8b5c122b_z.jpg

Hooligan
06-04-2011, 2:20 AM
Wish I had a scale- mine seems pretty light. A DPMS Sportical (http://www.dpmsinc.com/store/products/?prod=5450&cat=1646) slick side upper, with Spikes lower, CTR stock, Daniel Defense 1.5 rear sight and Midwest Industries front HK sight. Nice and handy!

For those asking why lightweight- the lighter rifle seems less intimidating to new shooters, this fits the bill for a SHTF and KISS rifle, its easy to carry into the range:D

RMTactical
06-04-2011, 8:13 AM
Sorry the pic sucks. I built this one with a Cav Arms lower and a superlight 16" barrel.

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u87/RMTactical/IMG_5897.jpg

jonyg
06-04-2011, 8:31 AM
Plumcrazy complete lower + BCM lightweight upper = :thumbsup: heavy unused Rails, VFGs, lights, fake lasers, need not apply ;)

+1

Get rid of all the front stuff, the practical weight they add is more than their actual weight. (Think torque when you're holding it up to shoot)

plumbum
06-04-2011, 9:11 AM
Anyone have luck with a lightweight 20" rifle build? (< 7 lbs?)

coy80176
06-04-2011, 9:41 AM
c'mon...when was the last work out?:confused:

may need to do some pull ups, or curl some barbells once in awhile:rolleyes::p

themailman
06-04-2011, 9:57 AM
c'mon...when was the last work out?:confused:

may need to do some pull ups, or curl some barbells once in awhile:rolleyes::p

Explain to me then why our military has a saying that goes like this: Ounces equal pounds. Pounds equal pain.

Ever done a 30mi hump?

Why would you carry a heavier rifle when you could have a rifle of equal quality that weighs less?

Jesus, so much stupidity wrapped around false bravado and weak machismo in here.

BigFatPanda
06-04-2011, 10:36 AM
Sort of. Most uppers are identical in weight. That is until you use a Vltor MUR which is considerably heavier than most uppers.

According to vltor's site the MUR-1A is under 10 oz. Sadly i didn't get a chance to weigh mine before i assembled it. Can anyone confirm? What is the weight of a standard upper? I can't imagine a significant difference. Could be wrong.

Separate note. Stop arguing about another man's physique. If one guy prefers a 6lb rifle it is no business of yours. Personal preferences are personal preferences. My rifle weighs 7lbs loaded and I bench 390 on the bench so your assumptions are wrong. Lets move on.

RMTactical
06-04-2011, 11:16 AM
Anyone have luck with a lightweight 20" rifle build? (< 7 lbs?)

A Cav Arms lower would be perfect for something like this, with an old school 20" pencil barrel.

major burnout
06-04-2011, 11:57 AM
A gentleman at the shop in Modesto had one down to 4# 10oz on the postage scale.(saw it with my own eyes) Turned down 10.5" barrel with welded 6" brake. Ace ultra lite stock. I believe he got it down to the low 4's with plans to get it lighter but had to stop because as he put it, "it was starting to become an unhealthy obsession." I thought it was awesome. Very handy backpacking rifle.

aznanimekid
06-04-2011, 2:04 PM
capita, parts list?

bombadillo
06-04-2011, 2:31 PM
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l122/bombadillo08/guns/IMAG0245.jpg

As it sits, boonie packer TQA-C sling, USGI 10/20 mag no rounds in it, weighs in at 7.5lbs almost on the nose. I could shave an ounce here or there by switching the carry handle to a lighter weight rear sight, remove the heat shields from the handguards, and a pencil barrel would be about the only way to shave any more weight off.

imarangemaster
06-04-2011, 3:52 PM
I guess mall ninjas and tacticool armchair commandos don't care how heavy something is. My main weapons (GAU-5A/A slickside AR clone, Kel Tec Su-16 CA, and Inland M1 Carbine) are ALL under 6 pounds. Of course, I know what it is like to tote steel around....

coy80176
06-04-2011, 5:48 PM
Explain to me then why our military has a saying that goes like this: Ounces equal pounds. Pounds equal pain.

Ever done a 30mi hump?

Why would you carry a heavier rifle when you could have a rifle of equal quality that weighs less?

Jesus, so much stupidity wrapped around false bravado and weak machismo in here.

My apologies - if my pissings/attempt at humor hit anyone elses cereal....my bad. Have I done the 30mi hump?....no, I'm not that tough. If you have, especially as part of our military, my gratitude to you for your service.

I'm pretty big and heavy, as is all my stuff....and could probably loose a few lbs easily by ditching my key chain, my pocket knife, phone, etc.

If you all want to achieve the most effecient weight in your rifle...more power to you.

r6raff
06-04-2011, 8:15 PM
What's with the current obsession with lightweight guns? Is it because more women are getting into shooting, or is it because more men who are getting into shooting are like women?

We have a saying in the trades... "It's not how hard you work, it's how smart you work." I.E. Why create more work for yourself if you don't have to? What, to show your manly? When you slow yourself down or put yourself at a disadvantage that's not manly or tough... that's idiotic. If you need to have all that stuff and weight on your AR for practical reasons, then so be it, but if not, you are only gimping yourself and giving your enemy an advantage.

Now, if someone says "I can't hold my 7 pound AR because I get tired after 30 minutes." Then that is a whole different issue altogether, and thats when you can say "hit the gym cup cake" otherwise, a LW has many advantages that many can exploit, plus that 2 or 3 pounds adds up after several hours and days, I think anyone who has carried one professionally would agree that every ounce you can shave off is a blessing, even if they won't admit it to their friends lol to :cool2:

Legasat
06-04-2011, 10:00 PM
My Daniel Defense XVM was right at 6 lbs from the factory

Capita159
06-05-2011, 1:47 AM
capita, parts list?

I somehow miss placed the parts weight sheet after the rifle was all assembled. But the parts are:

Daniel Defense 14.5" carbine light barrel: 20.5oz
Apex Machine mid length tube: 10oz
Vltor .625 gas block: 1.5oz
Currently running a Battle Comp 1.5: ?oz "didn't help with recoil because of 3oz JP buffer"
Bushmaster Carbon upper: 3.8oz
JP Enterprise BGC 8.2oz
DD and POF fix sights:
MGi gas tube,
Plum Crazy lower with a few replacement metal parts,
Ace ARUL stock with JP 3oz rifle buffer
Troy grip, KNS pins, Magpul BAD, etc......

The complete lower came out to a bit over 1lbs.
The picture with the scale shown above at 4lbs 14.2oz was when I had the plastic carbine hand guard, YHM rail gas block: 5.5oz., and a different front sight. With the FF tube and other adjustments, the rifle didn't change much in weight and is still under 5lbs.

We put over 500 rounds on it since birth. It is very accurate at 50-75 yards and did fairly well at 200 yards using only iron sights. I built that rifle so my girlfriend can have some fun at the range with me and the boys. Yet I enjoy shooting it more than I enjoy shooting my primary 8lbs rifle.

imarangemaster
06-05-2011, 6:14 AM
+1. I do think light is better, unless you have a specific tactical need for a piece of kit. (well said, sir r6raff!) My fourth rifle, a 603/XM16E1 20" clone just barely hits 6 pounds. I am almost 60 with a destroyed back and neck (that's why I retired from being a LEO after 20 years) and heavy SUCKS!

imarangemaster
06-05-2011, 6:28 AM
A pound or two won't make a big difference in felt recoil..13 vs 6 punds, perhaps, but even with hot ammo a 6lb AR does not have much recoil. Its not 22lr recoil (my 6lb 10/22 hardly moves) but its not bad at all for most people.

I agree. 12 Gauge with rifled slugs or magnum buck = recoil. 5.5 to 6 pound AR with M193 ball = shoot with the butt on your nose (what recoil?????) I carried an 11.5" GAU5-A/A in the AF Reserve and an XM177E2 as a LEO trunk weapon. Even on FA, never noticed much recoil.

Ready4whenSHTF
06-05-2011, 5:15 PM
Internet Arnold says:

"Whats up with these girly men wanting light ARs, my AR is 50 pounds and made out of lead. I eat raw meat for breakfast and sh%# out vegtables. AHHH"

themailman
06-05-2011, 6:01 PM
Internet Arnold says:

"Whats up with these girly men wanting light ARs, my AR is 50 pounds and made out of lead. I eat raw meat for breakfast and sh%# out vegtables. AHHH"

And he is ready to PUUUUUMP you all uppppp!

Lightwieght AR:

16" Lightweight Midlength BCM w/A2 FH
MOE HG
Milspec Lower with CAR stock and MOE HG/Trigger Guard
DD BUIS
IWC Light Mount/SF G2x
Ares Armor Huskey Sling

Done

k1dude
06-05-2011, 8:25 PM
Christensen Arms (http://christensenarms.com/) CA-15 Recon:

http://christensenarms.com/images/recon/recon_scm_black_30.png

5.5 pounds and $2,995

NiteQwill
06-05-2011, 9:11 PM
6 pounds and change

http://www.sk8ng.com/dusty/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/ARP12.jpg

Scutler
06-28-2011, 5:11 PM
6 pounds and change

http://www.sk8ng.com/dusty/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/ARP12.jpg

I like it. Simply effective

Tzvia
06-28-2011, 7:29 PM
I've got one of those Bushmaster Carbon 15's with a dremeled mag well, plenty light, very reliable but not much to look at.

My KISS IDF inspired rifle with an A1C7 type upper and Bushmaster superlight 16" barrel, A1 stock, including empty mag, Israeli sling and material grip wrap weighs in at 7.05 lbs. It weighed less in this photo, but I have since put Israeli handguards that have short rails molded into the sides on it, thinking I can put my TLR1s light on it in a bugout or developing riot situation. It's just so handy and simple.

http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k607/Tzvia2/done.jpg

Tzvia
06-28-2011, 7:37 PM
Internet Arnold says:

"Whats up with these girly men wanting light ARs, my AR is 50 pounds and made out of lead. I eat raw meat for breakfast and sh%# out vegtables. AHHH"

Real girls have the manly ARs :p. Here's mine:
http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k607/Tzvia2/varminter.jpg

Range toy, not very handy for much else...