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View Full Version : Bullpup Draco AK pistol (update post #24)


timdps
05-02-2011, 8:35 PM
Picked up one of the K-Var AK bullpup conversion kits a while back and was playing with it tonight. Realized that I would need a bullet button or a grip fin to fit the bullpup grip to assemble it onto any of my AKs and my AKs are featureless...:(

Hmmm... what about putting it on a Draco?
Looks possible...
Remove the original pistol grip and replace the lower handguard with the new grip/trigger assembly. Add the new front and rear sight assemblies...done!

This is just mocked up with a 10/30 mag and the original trigger is photoshopped out. Have not put in the new trigger group or the linkage. The instructions they send are for the full AK bullpup rifle and are useless or trying to figure out where all the parts go for a conversion. There is no way to attach the stock that comes with the kit to the Draco, so that should eliminate any SBR issues.

http://www.amazon.com/Century-Intl-Arms-AK-Bullpup/dp/B003LR8J20
Did NOT pay this much for it!

Enjoy,

Tim


http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b44/timdps/Draco/Dracobullpup1.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b44/timdps/Draco/Dracobullpup2.jpg

mydogsmonkey
05-02-2011, 11:02 PM
i can possibly see an issue with a "foregrip" AOW issue

NSR500
05-02-2011, 11:17 PM
ATF has said that a Draco pistol with that bullpup kit is still a pistol as long as a buttstock cannot be fitted.

Beatone
05-02-2011, 11:38 PM
The more I look at it my thinking is it might be fun to shoot. I need a range report soon. :43:

duc748bip
05-03-2011, 1:13 AM
It look like its pretty to tuck the end of receiver in and get some good accuracy out of it.

C.W.M.V.
05-03-2011, 1:15 AM
If you could fit an Ultimak with riser and a red dot it would be out-Fing standing...

Bulleh
05-03-2011, 3:06 AM
awesome draco project. looks like it has real potential

Q
05-03-2011, 3:08 AM
awesome.:D

Kimber
05-03-2011, 6:51 AM
Not trying to burst your bubble, but I gotta say that is one of the ugliest things I have ever seen!

But, if it's fun to shoot, then it's good.

JayBeeJay
05-03-2011, 8:56 AM
That's pretty hideous "Frankenstein" looking, but at least it's unique. The ergonomics look like it will be uncomfortable to shoot though.

timdps
05-03-2011, 8:57 AM
ATF has said that a Draco pistol with that bullpup kit is still a pistol as long as a buttstock cannot be fitted.

That's cool! Do you have a source or documentation for this info?
Would like to have that letter before it goes the range.

Not trying to burst your bubble, but I gotta say that is one of the ugliest things I have ever seen!

But, if it's fun to shoot, then it's good.

I'm sure that is what people were saying when the first bullpup rifles came out!

Not offended though. :D This was more of a "What happens if I put this and this together?" I'm always one for recombining stuff to see what happens...:43:

If I can figure out how the rest of the parts go in (without having any instructions), I will take it out the range and experiment!


That's pretty hideous "Frankenstein" looking, but at least it's unique. The ergonomics look like it will be uncomfortable to shoot though.


Tim

Z.1
05-03-2011, 8:58 AM
Really? I think it looks pretty cool - definitely different...

curious how the trigger works? does it link up back through the reciever?

timdps
05-03-2011, 9:08 AM
Really? I think it looks pretty cool - definitely different...

curious how the trigger works? does it link up back through the reciever?

There is a long piece of piano wire that connects the trigger to the hammer release.

paradox
05-03-2011, 9:10 AM
I would try to mount a single point sling off the rear trunion sized so that when you press out in a pistol stance it is taunt and lines the sights up for you.

stix213
05-03-2011, 9:32 AM
Is everyone sure that the receiver being so far back it can easily be shouldered wouldn't make this an SBR per CA law (regardless of what the ATF says)?

thedrickel
05-03-2011, 1:36 PM
There is a long piece of piano wire that connects the trigger to the hammer release.

SRS LULZ :D

Quiet
05-03-2011, 6:14 PM
ATF has said that a Draco pistol with that bullpup kit is still a pistol as long as a buttstock cannot be fitted.

Like the Bushmaster "Arm Pistol" .

Bushmaster "arm gun" Pistol
http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/227455000/227455613/pix129635926.jpg

C.W.M.V.
05-03-2011, 11:26 PM
Is everyone sure that the receiver being so far back it can easily be shouldered wouldn't make this an SBR per CA law (regardless of what the ATF says)?

This.
As always wouldnt the big concern be not necessarily the ATF, but CADOJ? I know they arent in the habbit of giving statements or opinions on things but is there anythin regarding this sort of weapon?
Cause if not I may have to put off getting a lower to get this bullpup kit:D

NSR500
05-04-2011, 12:48 AM
That's cool! Do you have a source or documentation for this info?
Would like to have that letter before it goes the range.



The best CYA is to probably get your own letter. You can follow the progress of another Draco bullpup pistol here: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/63496-i-received-atf-approval-to-build-a-draco-bull-pup-pistol/


Like the Bushmaster "Arm Pistol" .

Bushmaster "arm gun" Pistol
http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/227455000/227455613/pix129635926.jpg


Yup!

A Draco bullpup pistol will be just as legal as that Bushmaster with the correct California mods.

MacDime
05-04-2011, 12:59 AM
man that thing is gnarly lookin

protoolsnerd
05-04-2011, 1:23 AM
Looks like fun to me. Hold it one handed with your right and support it with your left near that mag.... Solid man!

timdps
05-04-2011, 8:55 AM
The best CYA is to probably get your own letter. You can follow the progress of another Draco bullpup pistol here: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/63496-i-received-atf-approval-to-build-a-draco-bull-pup-pistol/


Thanks much for the link!

Some interesting reading there on why the guy is building a bullpup AK pistol.

Evidently there is no letter, only an email. From the link:

Here is a copy of the email that explains the ATFs position:

__________________________________________________ _______________________________________


Mr. Deyarmin,

This email is to confirm what we spoke of yesterday regarding your proposed AK bullpup pistol. As I confirmed with the ATF Firearms Technology Branch (FTB), the weapon as you described would not fall under the NFA. You stated your understanding that you would either need to purchase the Century Arms Draco AK pistol or build up a “virgin” receiver and then install the bullpup kit in order to prevent the gun from becoming an NFA type weapon.

This morning I spoke again with the FTB and requested information regarding the issuance of letters stating that a firearm does not fall under the NFA. I was told that such letters are only issued when a firearm was formerly considered to be an NFA firearm and then removed from the NFA list of firearms because of its collectible status. Please feel free to contact me with any future questions.

David M Jones- Industry Operations Investigator

MrPlink
05-05-2011, 11:02 PM
so ugly its awesome

timdps
06-20-2011, 4:29 PM
So, finally got this thing to the point where it is ready to test fire and will be test firing it this weekend. Replaced the missing front and rear sight parts (Allen screw, ball bearing and spring).

Finally gave up on the trigger to trigger group connecting wire that came with the kit and built my own out of a 12" bicycle spoke. Took a while to get the bends right, but it works pretty well now. Ended up having to relieve the wire holes in the trigger, trigger group and handguard to fit the spoke through.

The trigger was relieved on the inside because it was pushing up on the barrel at both ends of its travel. Also curved the corner edges of the very square trigger, but this is not shown in the trigger photos below.

Cut a channel with a big ball burr and Dremel in the right side of the handguard to make for better clearance for the connecting wire.

The trigger pin is a pretty weak design and adds some slop to the trigger pull. Have not figured out what to replace it with yet, but someday...

Bullet button tool in the top two photos is a cut down screwdriver on a pullout keychain ring.

Tim

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b44/timdps/Draco/DSCN3628.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b44/timdps/Draco/DSCN3629.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b44/timdps/Draco/DSCN3627.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b44/timdps/Draco/DSCN3626.jpg


The lighter gray area is the clearance channel in the hard guard channel
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b44/timdps/Draco/DSCN3625.jpg

timdps
06-25-2011, 9:06 AM
Finally got to shoot the gun yesterday.

Even with a new linkage, the trigger is very bad. You pull fairly hard until it fires, but its very hard to tell WHEN its going to fire so its very exciting! Hold is reasonably stable with the left hand holding the mag, but the relatively light weight (6.6 pounds) and lack of a stock to brace against the shoulder make for a pretty violent action. Most secure way to hold it is tucked inside the elbow, but then you can't use the sights. Laser time...

Lower handguard at the pistol grip needs some stock removal as the handguard slams down pretty hard against the second joint of the thumb.

timdps
06-30-2011, 7:00 PM
Worked a bit more on the bullpup today. Looks like the hard trigger problem has to do with the trigger to FCG linkage wire was binding between the right side trigger guard rivets and the hammer pin reinforcing plate/rail. The hammer spring also binds the wire a bit.

Got into the the receiver with grinding wheels and burrs (not easy because its so deep inside the receiver) and ground down the outside half of the rivets a bit and ground a bit on bottom of the rail/hammer pin reinforcing plate so the wire does not bind. Also bent the hammer spring so it clears the linkage wire. Works much better now!

Did some work on the finger part of the trigger so its more comfortable.

Will have it at the Shoot-N-BBQ this Saturday at Chabot for anyone who wants to see/shoot it. :D

rodog
06-30-2011, 11:07 PM
Cool project, looking forward to hearing more. Any issues with brass ejection?

timdps
07-01-2011, 8:31 AM
Cool project, looking forward to hearing more. Any issues with brass ejection?

None... Its an AK...:D

762.DEFENSE
07-01-2011, 9:37 AM
Very nice! Love the creativity! :thumbsup:

Vanilla Gorilla
07-01-2011, 10:41 AM
:tt1:

Omil
07-01-2011, 10:46 AM
OP:cool2:..that's

timdps
07-01-2011, 8:33 PM
Last minute update before the Shoot-N-Q. Got the Tapco gas tube rail on with a cheapo red dot and replaced the AK sling with a single point sling. Added a side rail for a laser, but its not mounted in the photo. You can also see where I reworked the grip for my smaller hands, although there is more work on the other side. Polished the hammer and hooks. Wheeeeee.....

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b44/timdps/Draco/Dracoreddot.jpg

InGrAM
07-01-2011, 10:28 PM
People are probably going to jump in and say "that red dot will never stay zeroed mounted to that gas tube". But mine has just fine on my SKS. :)

Good stuff man. I kinda like it, in a weird way.

timdps
07-02-2011, 9:13 PM
Had a great time at the Shoot-N-Q today. Decided to put on the bipod (cut down Romy RPK bipod) before shooting it today.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b44/timdps/Draco/bullpupbipod.jpg


Shot it at 25 yards with iron sights only today (ran out of time to play with the reflex sight). This is the final target after adjusting the sight a lot. This was shot by a number of people including Oaklander and Curtis the RO. He put three in the red.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b44/timdps/Draco/bullpuptarget.jpg


Tim

Write Winger
07-02-2011, 10:10 PM
Lol, cool, but seriously looks like it's that pic of the guy with his head up his a**!

Not hatin'. I like it.

jdberger
07-02-2011, 10:13 PM
Saigon? Are you OK?

Saigon1965
07-03-2011, 5:45 AM
Not as handsome as before my GF said -

Saigon? Are you OK?

vandal
07-03-2011, 3:47 PM
So can you shoulder it on the right side?

Saigon1965
07-03-2011, 3:52 PM
Made for righty - I was thinking of my AUG that's set up for me - Lefty - Well didn't work out so well -

So can you shoulder it on the right side?

timdps
07-04-2011, 5:40 PM
Found more info from the ATF on AK bullpup design:

From: http://www.cbrps.com/Products.html

"The Draco pistol in the CBRPS configuration to be fired utilizing a single hand and without a front grip is considered a pistol as the information from a letter from the BATFE, below implies -"

"Your new design eliminates the forward handgrip and thus does not facilitate two handed firing as your initial design did. Therefore FTB finds that an AK pistol mounted in your redesigned stock is intended to be fired with one hand and thus constitutes a "pistol" as defined in the Gun Control Act. Accordingly an AK pistol mounted in your newly designed stock would not meet the definition of an "AOW" as noted above and thus would not be regulated under the provisions of the NFA in any way."

"All NFA rules apply and the addition of a foreend grip would constitute a Short Barrelled Rifle configuration, requiring proper Federal regulation and registration."

timdps
07-17-2011, 3:52 PM
Russian zig-zag AK74 brake and adapter added:

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b44/timdps/Draco/bullpupwithbrake.jpg

DavidR310
01-03-2013, 12:00 AM
This thing is soooo ugly, it deserves a necrobump. Plus, has anyone else done this?

guitar-nut
01-03-2013, 12:07 AM
I like it in a "so ugly it's cool" kind of way. Definitely scores points for originality.