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View Full Version : M60 belt fed off list?


sunball42
05-02-2011, 2:36 PM
Ok so I saw a "California" ok M60 beltfed in the hands of a California resident. Is there any way of building one legally? does anyone know?

Dynamic
05-02-2011, 2:40 PM
Yes they are legal just like any other rifle , un banned and make sure either featureless or bullet button , but before you get all happy and start looking for parts. Do you have 7-10 k for one ?

sunball42
05-02-2011, 3:00 PM
I have saved enough to start looking for one. Do you know where to start looking?

762.DEFENSE
05-02-2011, 4:33 PM
Waste of money imo.
But heres a site
http://www.dndguns.com/shrike.htm

jwkincal
05-02-2011, 5:50 PM
The M-60 is a true machine gun. There is no semi-auto setting. If it was tweaked to have a semi-auto option, it would be a lousy rifle on account of it fires from the open bolt and that spring will take your aimpoint for a nice little spin before it closes and discharges.

The link above does have a '60 for $20K. But you'll need a BATFE stamp for it and it is my understanding that those cannot be had in CA. I suppose if you were a movie armorer you might have a chance.

Oh, yeah... there's a reason we call it "the pig." They're unwieldy and hard to control and mechanically questionable sometimes. If you're lucky and have a good one it can shoot all day; last time I went to the range with a company, there was only one of a dozen guns that did. The rest broke in the first hour.

darkest2000
05-02-2011, 6:12 PM
The M-60 is a true machine gun. There is no semi-auto setting. If it was tweaked to have a semi-auto option, it would be a lousy rifle on account of it fires from the open bolt and that spring will take your aimpoint for a nice little spin before it closes and discharges.

The link above does have a '60 for $20K. But you'll need a BATFE stamp for it and it is my understanding that those cannot be had in CA. I suppose if you were a movie armorer you might have a chance.

Oh, yeah... there's a reason we call it "the pig." They're unwieldy and hard to control and mechanically questionable sometimes. If you're lucky and have a good one it can shoot all day; last time I went to the range with a company, there was only one of a dozen guns that did. The rest broke in the first hour.
They make(or have made) semi auto closed bolt versions for civilian sales. Not very common but have been made in quantities. Probably not the most practical gun but I would like to have one someday!

darkest2000
05-02-2011, 6:14 PM
I have saved enough to start looking for one. Do you know where to start looking?

Try gunbroker.

Cokebottle
05-02-2011, 6:15 PM
Do you currently possess a linked belt in excess of 10 rounds?
If not, it won't be that much fun.

sunball42
05-02-2011, 7:08 PM
some people might think it is a wast of money, but that is why we all have our own likes and dislikes. I have plenty of ak and ar builds so i wanted to try something else. oh yea and i am a LEO in socal so i might be able to find a few extra links.

West9319
05-02-2011, 7:15 PM
us ordnance sells semi autos for around 14k but your going to need a middle man ffl cause they wont sell it here (cant really blame them for that one but there not truly CA unfriendly they do sell there ar lowers to us)

http://www.desertord.com/

If I had the extra income I would buy one the second I got a chance too, the 60 is one of my favorites.

CAL.BAR
05-02-2011, 7:26 PM
some people might think it is a wast of money, but that is why we all have our own likes and dislikes. I have plenty of ak and ar builds so i wanted to try something else. oh yea and i am a LEO in socal so i might be able to find a few extra links.

Nothing like a felony to kick off a promising law enforcement career. Cheers!

furyous68
05-02-2011, 7:38 PM
Nothing like a felony to kick off a promising law enforcement career. Cheers!

How would it be a felony? Cops aren't restricted from having high-cap mags.. which a +10 link belt is considered right?

Isn't that why LEO can have AR's without the BB and with all the evil features?

George W
05-02-2011, 7:38 PM
There have been 3 companies that made them in the past.
At the very last gun show that was at Pamona many moons ago there was a S/A M60 made by Springfield Armory ( I think) It actually fired from an open bolt . It is a very rare breed. I don't think many were ever sold before the laws changed requiring them to have to fire from the closed bolt .

Then came the JRW design (Closed Bolt). I believe there were less than 20 made.
This design has been copied several times and there is a video out from years ago as well as a set of drawings for it.
This design has proved to be very problematic to say the least.

And that leaves the US Ord design (Closed Bolt). This is the only version that ever worked reliably. US Ord stopped building them and the units they did build will cost a premium to anyone who want to buy one if you can find one for sale.
They are still curently supplying the F/A models to various country's.

I believe a company out of Sparks NV. ( Desert Ordnance ?) makes them but they were in the 12 -14 K range years back.

I believe there is another company making S/A parts here in Calif. trying to get a newly designed version based off of the JRW design approved.

As mentioned it would have to comply with the rules and regs in Calif.
The only viable model that would fly here in Calif. would be the M60 D.
It was the door gun version used in the Hueys. It was fitted with a set of spade grips.
You would then just have to sleeve the flash hider.
And yes unless you had in your possesion linked belts of 11 rnds or more before Jan 1 2000 you would have an expensive very heavy, very cool looking 10 rnd delinker.

furyous68
05-02-2011, 7:42 PM
And yes unless you had in your possesion linked belts of 11 rnds or more before Jan 1 2000 you would have an expensive very heavy, very cool looking 10 rnd delinker.


What if he "found" some extended links.. like in the evidence locker... or just outside the SWAT armory :whistling:

George W
05-02-2011, 7:51 PM
Not sure what you mean what if he found them .
You can still legally purchase, or find them or what ever, you just can't put more than 10 of them together.
Now like I said if you had 11 or more of them together before 1/1/2000 you can add on to them to untill your fingers bleed and shoot it over and over as long as it never gets smaller than 11rnds.

furyous68
05-02-2011, 8:12 PM
Well.. you can't purchase. manufacture, or import after 1/1/2000 (same as high-cap mags). But, from what I've read on the lawyer forum (2-A), if you were to find one.. say in the attic of your house, (loaded ready to go w/ 11+ rounds) it's perfectly legal to have & use... since it was not purchased, manufactured, or imported. (Of course.. I'm being facetious)

Quick question though... as an LEO, isn't he exempt?

Also, if you did own an 11+ round belt of ammunition, and shot it so the links came apart... could you not then re-load it past 10 rounds? That sucks!

Cokebottle
05-02-2011, 8:39 PM
How would it be a felony? Cops aren't restricted from having high-cap mags.. which a +10 link belt is considered right?
This part is correct.
Isn't that why LEO can have AR's without the BB and with all the evil features?
This part is not exactly correct.

A cop can't just go to Riflegear and get a featured build without a BB. It either has to be for department use, or, by pulling a LOT of strings through the department, get it registered with the DOJ as a RAW.

And there is some question as to whether that registration remains valid after his retirement.


But yes, cops are exempt from the high-cap mag laws, though they are not exempt from the prohibition on importation... they still have to buy them from an in-state source (FFL with high-cap permit, another cop, etc...)

Cokebottle
05-02-2011, 8:40 PM
Not sure what you mean what if he found them .
You can still legally purchase, or find them or what ever, you just can't put more than 10 of them together.
Now like I said if you had 11 or more of them together before 1/1/2000 you can add on to them to untill your fingers bleed and shoot it over and over as long as it never gets smaller than 11rnds.
OP is a cop.

He can have many of the cool toys that we can't.

George W
05-02-2011, 8:47 PM
Links are links you can buy them by the thousands in calif.
You don't have to find them you can still buy them. They are not a prohibited item in Calif.
The problem is once you start sticking them together (after 1/1/2000) once you put together with over 10 bullets holding them together your in violation of the law because you now are manufacturing a hicap magazine.

If you owned a belt of 308 ammo on M13 (M60) links that was 100 rnds back in Dec. of 1999 you have a pre ban hi cap mag. by definition which is legal to own in Calif. Then lets say you go to the range and shoot 89 rnds of it on 1/1/2000 and then stopped shooting you would still have a pre ban Hi-cap mag by definition and you could legally reload it to 100-200-300 rnds or untill your broke buying .308 ammo just like you could if you owned a 20 rnd AR mag.
But should you shoot 90 or more rounds of it you no longer have a hi-cap pre ban magazine by definition.

As to the LEO ? I will defer to others on that.
GW

furyous68
05-03-2011, 1:02 AM
Thanks Cokebottle... I think you answered my question.

duc748bip
05-03-2011, 1:22 AM
lucky I save all the link from a surplus ammo purchase. almost toss them in the trash when i moved. Now just need to find a semi M60 or need to find 20k first.

goodlookin1
05-03-2011, 5:43 AM
Even if it illegal for a cop to buy and keep, LEO are a de-facto "privileged class" and rarely/never bust their own.

- Some departments will issue "Assault Weapons" registered to them.

- Some departments will issue "Assault Weapons" registered to them so long as they remain full-time LEO

- Some departments wont issue directly to LEO

In any case, unless you come across the rare "You're not exempt" type LEO, they will look the other way on your illegal AW. All you have to say is, "I'm an Law Enforcement Officer. Nothing to see here folks", then show them your badge and they move right along.

rromeo
05-03-2011, 5:52 AM
lucky I save all the link from a surplus ammo purchase. almost toss them in the trash when i moved. Now just need to find a semi M60 or need to find 20k first.

You may freely purchase, sell, give, manufacture, etc. as many links as you choose. You may not link up more than 10 rounds of ammunition if you did not possess more than 10 rounds of linked ammunition in California prior to January of 2000.

X-NewYawker
05-03-2011, 6:02 AM
The pics are "pre-computer" but had one of these semi-auto M-60s before the ban back in 1989. Heavy. Cool. Stupid. We used it mostly for family "Hey look I'm Rambo" photo Ops. My Belgian FAL kicked its *** as a useful gun, so it disappeared.

cannon
05-03-2011, 6:30 AM
Thats the thing about our hobby. You are only limited by your imagination and wallet. OP get your rifle and have a blast!

Cokebottle
05-03-2011, 4:10 PM
Even if it illegal for a cop to buy and keep, LEO are a de-facto "privileged class" and rarely/never bust their own.

- Some departments will issue "Assault Weapons" registered to them.

- Some departments will issue "Assault Weapons" registered to them so long as they remain full-time LEO

- Some departments wont issue directly to LEO

In any case, unless you come across the rare "You're not exempt" type LEO, they will look the other way on your illegal AW. All you have to say is, "I'm an Law Enforcement Officer. Nothing to see here folks", then show them your badge and they move right along.
There is a big difference between personal ownership and departmental issue.

ke6guj
05-03-2011, 4:36 PM
But yes, cops are exempt from the high-cap mag laws, though they are not exempt from the prohibition on importation... they still have to buy them from an in-state source (FFL with high-cap permit, another cop, etc...)

nope, they can import them, and/or manufacture their own:

12020(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:
(20) The sale to, lending to, transfer to, purchase by, receipt of, or importation into this state of, a large capacity magazine by a sworn peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 who is authorized to carry a firearm in the course and scope of his or her duties.
(30)(B) The manufacture of a large-capacity magazine for use by a sworn peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 who is authorized to carry a firearm in the course and scope of his or her duties.

timdps
05-03-2011, 5:36 PM
Here is one that sold relatively recently:

http://www.gunsamerica.com/942260645/Guns/Rifles/Military-Misc-Rifles-US/Sniper-Variants/Springfield_Armory_SA_1_Belt_Fed_Semi_Auto_M6.htm

m35a2
05-03-2011, 7:52 PM
So, anyone know of any M60D sa versions in private hands here in Ca? ;)

ke6guj
05-03-2011, 8:14 PM
The only viable model that would fly here in Calif. would be the M60 D.
It was the door gun version used in the Hueys. It was fitted with a set of spade grips.

you don't have to go with spade grips, you could run a fingrip on it to remove the PG "feature".

You would then just have to sleeve the flash hider.yup

George W
05-04-2011, 5:32 PM
Fingrip????
I kind of like the spades.
It looks original and actually is probably worth more than a neutered pistol grip gun.
But then thats just me.
GW

ke6guj
05-04-2011, 8:27 PM
Fingrip????
I kind of like the spades.
It looks original and actually is probably worth more than a neutered pistol grip gun.
But then thats just me.
GW

yah, something like this, http://www.solartactical.com/AR15-A2-STYLE-KYDEX-SLIP-ON-GRIP-136.htm . would cost you around $50 or so to add that over your existing PG.

Heiko
05-04-2011, 11:46 PM
I won't get into all the legal ins-outs of a civilian legal semi-auto M60 but here is one. :D

George W
05-05-2011, 6:37 AM
Nice who made it?
GW

AaronHorrocks
05-05-2011, 7:47 AM
The M-60 is a true machine gun. There is no semi-auto setting. If it was tweaked to have a semi-auto option, it would be a lousy rifle on account of it fires from the open bolt and that spring will take your aimpoint for a nice little spin before it closes and discharges.

The M1919A4 is a true Machinegun. I had a semi-auto version.

The M2HB is a true Machinegun. I have a semi-auto version.

The Sten is a true sub-machinegun that fires from an open bolt. There's closed-bolt semi-auto versions.

The AK47/AKM/AKMS/AK74 varients are all select-fire rifles, there's thousands of people that own semi-auto versions.

While you may have some experience with the M60, you are apparently not aware of the vast numbers of semi-auto closed-bolt operating civilian versions of full-auto weapons.