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Sailormilan2
11-24-2006, 7:40 PM
Since the Cal DOJ minimums for a rifle is 30", after which it becomes a AW, does this length refer to the max length of the rifle, or the folded length if the rifle has a folding stock??

Prc329
11-24-2006, 7:46 PM
I believe it is folded length. I am no expert but I believe its the minimum length of your rifle. So that would be folded or collapsed.

SemiAutoSam
11-24-2006, 7:51 PM
My call on this is extended on a AR collapsible stock rifle or unfolded on a FN FAL PARA rifle.

Blue
11-24-2006, 7:55 PM
I believe it is folded length. I am no expert but I believe its the minimum length of your rifle. So that would be folded or collapsed.


I'm with you on this one. After it becomes an AW wouldn't that be 26-29"? Any shorter and it'd be NFA and any longer than 30 would be in the clear right?

NeoWeird
11-24-2006, 7:57 PM
My call on this is extended on a AR collapsible stock rifle or unfolded on a FN FAL PARA rifle.

That's the way I see it too. The ATF does it this way, and California doesn't clearify that they do it any different, so no reason to ASSUME they measure differently.

SemiAutoSam
11-24-2006, 8:05 PM
I think they went longer than the standard 26 inches just to make it a little harder to comply also so its a grey area after all what would a AR15 16 inch barrel be in length with a collapsible stock in both the extended and the collapsed length ?

since they don't specify they can say its measured how ever they want case by case basis right ?

Prc329
11-24-2006, 8:09 PM
since they don't specify they can say its measured how ever they want case by case basis right ?

That is pretty much why i would stick with folded length just to be on the safe side.

Sailormilan2
11-24-2006, 8:16 PM
Well, a Tanker Garand in a BM59 folding stock is about 28.5" in length, with the stock folded. If one adds the T37 pronged flash hider for Garands, the length is now about 32", folded. So I thought I would check.

SemiAutoSam
11-24-2006, 8:35 PM
My 20 inch AR with standard stock is 39.5 inches long and I put a collapsible stock next to the standard stock and its approx 3.5 inches less on the stock end and take 4 inches off the barrel to simulate a 16 inch barreled AR and I come up with 32 inches so this means that your average AR with a collapsible stock when stock colapased will be over the PRC/DOJ length requirement.

Prc329
11-24-2006, 8:51 PM
My 16" Ar with stock collapsed is 33" from tip to tip. I measured it when I went to buy my bag :)

This is with a DPMS Muzzle break, 16" barrel and DPMS collapsible stock.

socalguns
11-25-2006, 3:01 AM
That's the way I see it too. The ATF does it this way, and California doesn't clearify that they do it any different, so no reason to ASSUME they measure differently.
Oh boy :) In california, the overall-length is measured with the stock folded,
that is unless the rifle can't be fired when folded (like keltec)

UPDATE:
http://www.recguns.com/Sources/IIF1.html

Short shotguns and short rifles are defined at (c)(1)
and (c)(2) respectively; the definitions are essentially the same as
federal law. HOWEVER, unlike the feds, California courts have
ruled that the length of a rifle with a folding stock is
measured with the stock folded, not extended, as the feds do. So a
gun that is not a short rifle under federal law may be one under California
law. See People v. Rooney, 17 Cal.App.4th 1207 (1 Dist. 1993).


http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/usr/wbardwel/public/nfalist/state_cases.html
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/usr/wbardwel/public/nfalist/people_v_rooney.txt