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View Full Version : Think I got ripped off by calgunner- PICS


Onlyincali
04-29-2011, 3:41 PM
So I purchased a springfield 1911 from a fellow calgunner. It was shipped to my FFL. He said the pistol was in good condition. I specifically asked if it had any idiot marks, in which he replied NO, NO IDIOT MARKS. He even posted picture of it and there was not a single scratch in the pics.

When I got to my FFL to sign for it I find THIS piece of scratched up gun. Pics below. Am I right for being pissed? When I wrote him explaining my dissapointment and asking that he take the gun back and refund my money, he replies "the gun was worth what you paid" and is now ignoring me. Thinking about just taking him to small claims court. Does anyone here thinnk my dissapointment/request are unreasonable?

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n169/mrmikeman/springfield1911idiot1-1.jpg
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n169/mrmikeman/springfield1911idiot1.jpg
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n169/mrmikeman/springfield1911idiot2.jpg

themailman
04-29-2011, 3:43 PM
i would be pissed. call him out...

Barbarossa
04-29-2011, 3:44 PM
I would be very dissatisfied.

Looks like the guy only had 39 posts (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=415579)..

Looks good in the sale photos
EXIF data shows those were taken: 2010:05:29 21:50.06

MASTERLAB
04-29-2011, 3:45 PM
i would be upset

RawImpact
04-29-2011, 3:45 PM
1911 are not cheap, i'd be pissed as well. If it was a mosin on the otherhand, i'd thank him for adding onto its story.

Good luck

boogak
04-29-2011, 3:46 PM
That is one hell of an idiot mark. Never seen one from top to bottom like that.

BayAreaShooter
04-29-2011, 3:47 PM
I would be pretty pissed as well. He could have possible taken the pictures before the scratches were on the gun and used those for the sale. He might of been truthful and it was scratched by the receiving FFL. Either way you will never know for sure. It seems by his response and him ignoring you he got over on you. Thats just my opinion though. It really could go either way. This is one reason why I only do Face to Face deals. I would probably leave feedback on him.

Did you change the grips because the picture in his FS thread has different grips.

checkenbach
04-29-2011, 3:47 PM
Fail.

Sky_DiveR
04-29-2011, 3:50 PM
Wow. I think ya got took.

RawImpact
04-29-2011, 3:51 PM
Incase he edits his post, here's a print screen:

http://img1.uploadscreenshot.com/images/orig/4/11819484748-orig.jpg

a1c
04-29-2011, 3:52 PM
Send him a letter explaining you would like him to take the gun back for having misrepresented it.

If he declines, take him to court.

Oh, and please out him, and leave negative iTrader feedback if he refuses to take it back.

IronColt
04-29-2011, 3:52 PM
ask a gunsmith to see if you can polish or refinish it, then send him the bill.

tacticalcity
04-29-2011, 3:53 PM
This is the first time I have heard of somebody here on Calguns misrepresenting the condition of their item as severly as this. Usually people are really honest here.

It is NOT acceptable to do this, and I would report him to the mods not in the attempt of forcing him to make it right (because they can't) but in the hopes of getting him banned so he cannot do this to somebody else. The pictures are NIGHT and DAY different.

I would be disapointed for sure, however if the price I paid was too good to be true for a gun in better condition then I would not be too upset. I would only be tuly pissed or consider myself having been ripped off if I truly paid more than what the gun is worth.

Want some good news? 95% or more of those scratches can be completely removed. Buy a tube of FLITZ off eBay. Using a polishing cloth or even a cut up tighty whitey soft cotton t-shirt you can polish up the entire gun so it shines like new. Putting a touch more elbow greese where the scratches are of course. You will have a shiny rather than satin finish, but it will look good as new and very impressive.

That does NOT make what the guy did right. But it also means you are not nearly as screwed as you might think.

I did this to my barrel that came with my Kimber 1911. It was seriously scratched up. Way beyond your gun. Now it looks brand new. I am not as fortunate as you. My gun is black. So I can't fix scratches on my slide or frame. Just the barrel. Fortunately my slide and frame are still in great shape.

Now, all of that said. Guns get scratched up when drawing from a holster or just plain shooting and handling them. So it will never be perfect. But you can get it into a lot better shape than it is now and with some effort and routine polishing keep it there.

UPDATE:

Looking at the numbers that were posted after I started typing, I would not be too pissed if I paid $700-$750. Because the grips, trigger job, hammer, beavertail safety, etc. are all very pricey upgrades. So if it shoots like it should, then the scratches are not that big of deal. Especially since most can be fixed with a little bit of effort. There are a lot of upgrades on that gun. A lot of them. None of which are cheap. I would be upset that I was lied to, and definately report the guy. But after that I would do my best to clean up the gun and make the best of a less than ideal situation.

I am not defending the seller by any means. I would report him.

However, while not pretty...it still is a very nice gun my friend.

FUBAR
04-29-2011, 3:53 PM
The seller might of made the scratches while installing the extended slide release.

MaHoTex
04-29-2011, 3:53 PM
Yeah... And look at this post:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=5719476#post5719476

Jacked up dude...

PandaLuv
04-29-2011, 3:55 PM
Look like ****. How much was it?

Onlyincali
04-29-2011, 3:56 PM
I already did explain that I want either a partial refund or to get my money back in full in exchange for his crappy gun back. And to the one post above wondering about the FFL. The FFL DID NOT do this. This gun is scratched ALL OVER and the FFL is a highly respected, VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE FFL.

Small claims court here I come. Anyone know how to take someone to small claims court in a different city(8 hours away). If I HAVE TO I will gladly make a trip or two up there to take him to court, based on principle alone....but would rather not if I dont have to. Luckily I have a copy of his drivers license with full name, address and DL number.


And I paid 700. TOO MUCH for this CRAP. Even if I only paid 50 bucks, it was still a dishonest sell and I did not get what promised.

InGrAM
04-29-2011, 3:57 PM
Man that sucks. I have never bought a gun unless it was brand new or I inspected the gun personally. For this very reason, I will never buy a gun I have not seen from someone I have never met.

Take him to court if he does not make your deal right.

PandaLuv
04-29-2011, 3:57 PM
For 700? U better get your money back.
I would threaten him to take him to court.

PandaLuv
04-29-2011, 3:57 PM
For 700? U better get your money back.
I would threaten him to take him to court.

Ronk
04-29-2011, 3:57 PM
I am only speculating, but if you look at the original post, to me it looks as if there is a shiny spot right behind the trigger, matches your the mark in your photos, just sayin..the photo angles he took might have misrepresented the pistol, unless he sent you more. I would be HOT.

Just-in
04-29-2011, 3:58 PM
At least it can be sanded or polished out. Regardless I'm sorry you have to deal with this.

Ronk
04-29-2011, 4:01 PM
Talk to a moderator if you have proof as well, maybe they will determine if this guy should be allowed here anymore, this kinda stuff gets me steaming too..makes me think twice about ever doing a deal like this.

jptopz
04-29-2011, 4:02 PM
Not cool! If you end up getting stuck with it as long as the scraches are not to deep they can be worked out. I have two stainless 1911s that had marks on them when I bought them and I was able to get them out.

watsonville
04-29-2011, 4:03 PM
i would just buff it out unless its too deep but the firearms sales section seems kinda craigslisty to me id be pissed to

(flitz metal polish)

IronColt
04-29-2011, 4:04 PM
$10 tube of Flitz polish, an old t-shirt, and several sessions of sitting their putting some elbow grease into it and she will look good as new. Plus he has around $300 worth of upgraded parts on her.

yeah that's what I had in mind too (flitz) couldn't tell how deep it was though.....with fuel prices the way it is and being 8 hrs away and all, I'd rather try that $10 option first before court.

giants_fan24
04-29-2011, 4:04 PM
This is way wrong, I would be pissed. Theres alot of good guys on Calguns but theres always one who does something dirty. Its good his names out there so other Calgunners won't buy from him.

Lead Waster
04-29-2011, 4:06 PM
I suggest going to the range and shooting it, see how it shoots. Maybe it is a sweet shooter and that might at least make you feel a bit better about it. It might still shoot like a $700 gun.

I would take pics, then try and polish the scratches out as best I could, then if you are not satisfied, then go to small claims. Remember that going to court is a PITA and might not be worth your time.

Bobula
04-29-2011, 4:07 PM
I'd be heading to court

DVSmith
04-29-2011, 4:07 PM
I would be unhappy. If it makes you feel any better I would be happy to take it off your hands for $50.00. Then it wouldn't be a total loss...

OK, just messing with ya!!! But yep, poor form and the seller should take it back.

Noxx
04-29-2011, 4:07 PM
That is the single largest assembly scratch I've ever seen on a 1911, and I've been through a lot of old Rem Rands.

Noxx
04-29-2011, 4:09 PM
That is the single largest assembly scratch I've ever seen on a 1911, and I've been through a lot of old Rem Rands.


That said, I'll give you $401.00 and you can cut your loss :D

angelina
04-29-2011, 4:09 PM
I'm gonna be the 50th person to suggest the metal polish. for 700$ he should have been upfront about everything but since he isn't - lesson learned. to be honest taking him to court is not going to be worth the time/money. and if it's just for the principal - eff him. a 10$ jar of metal polish and some work on your end will clear the scratch up.

aside from that - how's it function? I've seen you call it a crappy gun a few times now. if all that is wrong with it is the scratch then polish it out and trade or sell it. the upgrades look to be 300-350$ alone.

Onlyincali
04-29-2011, 4:10 PM
I am VERY VERY BUSY and dont have time to sit around polishing this gun. Thats why I paid the fair price i did for a CLEAN GUN. I dont see how anyone can say "its worth it, brush it off" when it was clearly misrepresented. What happened to honor? Truth?

Worth it or not... It was not anywhere NEAR what was promised. Why should I have to spend even 10 minutes(yet alone many many hours) to try to fix something? Also, many of these are deep....some may polish out...not all by any means.

tacticalcity
04-29-2011, 4:15 PM
Found a tube of Flitz on EBay for $0.99 plus $3 freight. This is the same stuff I used to make my 1911 barrel look brand new.

I'm telling ya, a free weekend is all ya need to make that 1911 look almost brand spankin new. I would bet you could get it looking so good it would be worth WAY more than you paid.

Diamonds in the rough always look rough.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Flitz-1-76-oz-metal-plastic-fiber-glass-polish-/220775086153?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3367387849

http://i.ebayimg.com/23/!B5Lo8KQCWk~$(KGrHqEOKj8Ey(N0WfmvBMsmsL4PqQ~~_12.J PG

evidens83
04-29-2011, 4:15 PM
Well spending 10 minutes to polish it out is better than time at court IMHO... but yes, that guy did a douche move no doubt.

rmfnla
04-29-2011, 4:18 PM
Be advised that even if you prevail in small claims court you still have to collect, and this guy sounds like someone who would be evasive as hell.

GlockBlocker
04-29-2011, 4:19 PM
I am VERY VERY BUSY and dont have time to sit around polishing this gun. Thats why I paid the fair price i did for a CLEAN GUN. I dont see how anyone can say "its worth it, brush it off" when it was clearly misrepresented. What happened to honor? Truth?

Worth it or not... It was not anywhere NEAR what was promised. Why should I have to spend even 10 minutes(yet alone many many hours) to try to fix something? Also, many of these are deep....some may polish out...not all by any means.
I think everyone agrees that you should not have to. People were just offering suggestions on how to salvage it. Why get testy with the people in this thread?

And if you're such a very very busy person, how do you find the time to post here more than once every other day. :)

mif_slim
04-29-2011, 4:25 PM
I'll take it off your hands for half what you paid! ;)


But seriously I would be mad and contact a mod quickly.

Onlyincali
04-29-2011, 4:27 PM
Lol. Not trying to get testy. Sorry if it came off that way. Just frustrated with the situation. Thanks to TacticalCity and all others who posted suggestions. Looks like i've got to try that stuff.

MoBait
04-29-2011, 4:28 PM
I would consider that a double idiot mark. When I did that to my 1911 it was only around the trigger guard. Judging by the old pics I would say the seller was trying to hide something. If I was in the seller's shoes and I, i'll use this term lightly, 'forgot' to mention the problem, I would offer at least a partial refund.

tacticalcity
04-29-2011, 4:31 PM
Well spending 10 minutes to polish it out is better than time at court IMHO... but yes, that guy did a douche move no doubt.

If he does it by hand, which is probably safer, an entire gun is going to take an hour a day for several days. My barrel alone took about three to four hours total. An effort I spread out over a period of about a week.

The only ones that worry me are the top slide idiot marks and the nicks on the front of the frame. However, any holstered gun is going to have the nicks on the front. He will be able to get it looking much, much better than it does now. But it might not be possible to get it looking perfect.

When all is said and done it will look like a really nice daily shooter that somebody actually trains with...but also takes the time to maintain and polish.

MongooseV8
04-29-2011, 4:35 PM
My say is that sucks and I would be upset at first as well. However its far from the end of the world, and his deception will make others think twice when dealing with him.

You could always duracoat it and never have to think about the scratch again. Function over form, 1911's are most beautiful after they have some miles on them anyway ;)

Riodog
04-29-2011, 4:36 PM
$10 tube of Flitz polish, an old t-shirt, and several sessions of sitting their putting some elbow grease into it and she will look good as new. Plus he has around $300 worth of upgraded parts on her.

If it had the sights I want I would trade him my Kimber in a heart beat.

It's no big deal to take the scratches out of a SS pistol. It is worth what you paid SO don't create a lot of ill will for nothing. IF it was a collectible or some such it might be a whole different issue but it's not. It's just an ordinary pistol so just get to work on it and show us what YOU can do.

Couple of swipes with some WD-40 and 2000 grit paper and then some polish and it'll look great. Don't round the edges.
Good luck,
Rio
Unless it's brand new-> buyer beware.

Steve1968LS2
04-29-2011, 4:40 PM
I think it's crappy and dishonest to use year old pictures of an item to sell it and make it look like it's NIB..

Very shady, but some people have no honor.. I would give him bad feedback, notify the mods and then buff out the marks from the idiot and have fun shooting it.. it's not really worth your time to sue.

Sad how some people are these days.

scoutsniper687
04-29-2011, 4:40 PM
I would be very dissatisfied.

Looks like the guy only had 39 posts (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=415579)..

Looks good in the sale photos
EXIF data shows those were taken: 2010:05:29 21:50.06



Id be pissed too. Id do something!

First mistake was buying from someone with such a low post count though...I would never.

dominic
04-29-2011, 4:43 PM
You didn't really get ripped off in my opinion, not for what you paid for it. That being said, the seller saying it didn't have any scratches is pretty low. Just leave feedback saying you were not satisfied and leave it at that.

Hopalong
04-29-2011, 4:45 PM
I think you have every right to be upset, I know I would be.

I'd try to buff it out as advised above, and chalk it up to experience.

The reason I say that is this

Small claims court is not a slam dunk

First, there may be some problem as to which court to apply, that is, his town , or your town, or the FFL's town.

Second, you will have to PROVE he said the gun had no scratches on it.

The term "Idiot marks" won't cut it in court, too ambiguous, even though we all know what the term means.

You would have to be ready for him to say the scratches were caused in transit, or by the FFL.

I think it would be a tough case to win

I have been to small claims court 4 times and have won all 4.

Even if you win, he has 30 days to appeal, and even then, now you have to collect.

If he doesn't pay up, and he very well may not, you take the judgement to the county sheriff

And they got to his place of employment to garnish his wages

If you don't know where he works, you'd have to get him to fill out a special form declaring his assets.

He can stall and stall.

It goes on and on.

Get my point?

SixtyDashOne
04-29-2011, 4:47 PM
Being that it's stainless, pretty sure you'd be able to get those marks off the gun with a scotchbrite pad, if you wanted to. No need for any kind of liquids or anything else, the scotchbrite pad should buff out the marks all by itself. I took a mark off my Kimber Grand Raptor II with a scotchbrite pad before I sold it. Was very easy and took no more than a couple minutes and left the gun looking like it was brand new.

akjunkie
04-29-2011, 4:52 PM
my 2cents.. Polish it first.

And FYI, Small Claims court AINT FREE. The time, hassle and headache just might not be worth it. Even for honor, integrity or principal. Suck it up and consider it a life lesson.

Like Tacticalcity said, those upgrades arent cheap. Is this a Safe Queen or a range gun?

just my 2cents.

stix213
04-29-2011, 4:53 PM
Assuming everything the OP says is true, this seems ban worthy. Those scratches are pretty bad looking. They should have been mentioned.

negolien
04-29-2011, 4:58 PM
I bought my Kimber Custom II for $649 new I'd be pretty pissed if I was you. Wether you can do anything is another story though.

paul0660
04-29-2011, 5:05 PM
When I got to my FFL to sign for it

Before the ten days or after?

Onlyincali
04-29-2011, 5:12 PM
You have to sign for it before the 10 days starts. Its currently in the 10 day wait period. Pictures were taken at FFL shop.

ninjawho?
04-29-2011, 5:15 PM
get a rope............

melman
04-29-2011, 5:18 PM
Sorry dude but dang that sucks. A f'ing idiot mark all the way to the slide... a none honest seller... I say :ban:

glock7
04-29-2011, 5:24 PM
Yeah... And look at this post:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=5719476#post5719476

Jacked up dude...

am i understanding this correctly? he bought it for 400 and sold it the op for 700? wow...that in itself is wrong. profit is cool but that much? no way. when i've sold my guns i don't make double what i paid for it. i want to make some profit, but i want the buyer to enjoy it. and to use different pics? not kosher at all. to the op i'm sorry you have to deal with this. polish it up and i hope it's a good shooter for you. good luck.

Oceanbob
04-29-2011, 5:26 PM
Obviously a total BUFFOON owned the weapon once.

I have several Stainless 1911s....what you will have to do is mask the damage off; the satin finish next to the trigger is put on with a bead blasting gun. This area can be salvaged if you find a Gun Smith that has a fine/glass bead machine. He will have to mask the frame off and redo the scratched area.

That BIG mutha on the shiny part of the slide is another issue. That will take some serious labor; perhaps a skilled Gun Smith can remove most of the scratch, however when he 'polishes' that area it will get a mirror finish so the entire SLIDE will have to be done to match.

If you feel the weapon is a good one; with all the options she does look good....you might consider just refinishing the ENTIRE Slide in Hard Chrome?

Or another finish system...Duracoat, Re' Blue, Teflon, or how about having the slide Machine Turned with several circles/ have the serrations cut so it looks like a Cobra Carry..?...lol

Several options my friend.

I would give the guy a negative i Trader rating if he doesn't send you a couple hundred for the refinish cost.

Just my opinion...sorry for your problems.....

ALL the people I've dealt with on this forum are STAND UP HONEST.

Bob

ninjawho?
04-29-2011, 5:26 PM
can u post a name???or is that against the rules...

Oceanbob
04-29-2011, 5:31 PM
can u post a name???or is that against the rules...

Scroll back and you will find it

Grumpyoldretiredcop
04-29-2011, 5:32 PM
I sat as a bailiff in Small Claims courts (among others) for years. One of our judges liked to tell litigants up front: "Getting the judgment is the easy part." Enforcing it is altogether another story.

Sit back and look at it dispassionately, as though you'd never been involved. Do you think the amount you might recover is worth the costs of filing, service (costs that you might not be able to recover even though a judgment entitles you to them), and taking time out of a busy life on possibly more than one day to attend court?

If so, go for it.

If not, contact a mod, give him negative feedback, and move on with life.

Oceanbob
04-29-2011, 5:34 PM
I sat as a bailiff in Small Claims courts (among others) for years. One of our judges liked to tell litigants up front: "Getting the judgment is the easy part." Enforcing it is altogether another story.

Sit back and look at it dispassionately, as though you'd never been involved. Do you think the amount you might recover is worth the costs of filing, service (costs that you might not be able to recover even though a judgment entitles you to them), and taking time out of a busy life on possibly more than one day to attend court?

If so, go for it.

If not, contact a mod, give him negative feedback, and move on with life.

THIS^^^^!!

From someone who knows. :)

5.56Geo
04-29-2011, 5:38 PM
If you end up keeping it, I will tell you how to take those idiot marks out. Before you use Flitz go buy some 3M #7447(maroon) and #96(Green) Scotch-Brite pads, cut pads to fit around small flat wood block. Take slide off and lay it flat then wrap a piece of 3M pad around wood block and with even pressure slide back and forth (with the S.S. grain) as if you were sanding it. Start with the course pad then with the finer pad. The scratches will come out then apply the flitz for final luster ;). How do I know???? I had a huge idiot mark on my TAG Heuer watch and thats how I took it out. Here is a picture of my watch, never mind the gun :D.
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/turbogeo/Tagwithprotection001.jpg

MaHoTex
04-29-2011, 5:46 PM
am i understanding this correctly? he bought it for 400 and sold it the op for 700? wow...that in itself is wrong. profit is cool but that much? no way. when i've sold my guns i don't make double what i paid for it. i want to make some profit, but i want the buyer to enjoy it. and to use different pics? not kosher at all. to the op i'm sorry you have to deal with this. polish it up and i hope it's a good shooter for you. good luck.

That was my take on it. He bought it for $400 and sold it for $700 by lying... err... not being up front about the condition.

ninjawho?
04-29-2011, 5:48 PM
Scroll back and you will find it

real name...not screen handle???:sleeping:

fonzy
04-29-2011, 5:49 PM
Cancel payment on his check. Or paypal. Take him to court. Heck you have his address order a bus full of strippers, along with 100 pizzas to his house for being a jack *****. When don't need low lives like that. Posts that he got it for $400 bucks and says you got what you paid for. A big middle finger to that guy.

Rafale
04-29-2011, 5:51 PM
I would be very upset also. OP got taken for a ride!:mad:

leoffensive
04-29-2011, 5:54 PM
take his *** to court and stick it to him and get him the mighty ban hammer...

i will say... my 1911 has an idiot mark like that.....cause im an idiot lololol

mine is parkerized tho.

paul0660
04-29-2011, 6:01 PM
You have to sign for it before the 10 days starts. Its currently in the 10 day wait period. Pictures were taken at FFL shop.

You have to "sign for it" when you pick it up to take it home too, that is why I asked. You have a good small claims case, which can be done in your jurisdiction, but isn't worth the trouble anyway. Thanks for alerting the rest of us to this person's character.

To those that think the profit on this sale was unreasonable, if the buyer paid it, that is the price. If you want to manage prices, go back to 1989 Russia.

rodeoflyer
04-29-2011, 6:03 PM
$700 is a damned good price for that thing IMO. I'm surprised nobody has offered to take it off your hands yet.

As said, small claims court will likely do you no good. IF you collect, you will have spent too much in time and inconvenience.

Hate to sound like a dick, but IMO your best move is probably to lick your wounds and move on. :o

leoffensive
04-29-2011, 6:07 PM
$700 is a damned good price for that thing IMO. I'm surprised nobody has offered to take it off your hands yet.

As said, small claims court will likely do you no good. IF you collect, you will have spent too much in time and inconvenience.

Hate to sound like a dick, but IMO your best move is probably to lick your wounds and move on. :o

i paid 700 for mine brand new back in 2009

scorpionking
04-29-2011, 6:11 PM
LOL at all the folks here egging on the OP to "take the seller to small claims court".

Spoken like true internet warriors. Yeah, I'd like to see you go to small claims court for that. Then tell us (especially most of the responders in this thread) how easy and stress free it was. Oh yeah, also tell us "you were doing it for the principle". Yeah, I'd like to see that.

Next time, be more specific. Don't use ambiguous terms like "idiot marks".

Face it. You got hosed. Cut your losses. l
Learn from this mistake. Don't do it again. Move on.

small claims court..........LOL!

paul0660
04-29-2011, 6:14 PM
LOL at all the folks here egging on the OP to "take the seller to small claims court".

Spoken like true internet warriors. Yeah, I'd like to see you go to small claims court for that. Then tell us (especially most of the responders in this thread) how easy and stress free it was. Oh yeah, also tell us "you were doing it for the principle". Yeah, I'd like to see that.

Next time, be more specific. Don't use ambiguous terms like "idiot marks".

Face it. You got hosed. Cut your losses. l
Learn from this mistake. Don't do it again. Move on.

small claims court..........LOL!

Hmmm...........95% of the people who have read this thread know what an idiot mark is........those who don't are..........well............you know.

You ARE correct about SC court, not worth it...................as many people have pointed out.

leoffensive
04-29-2011, 6:15 PM
LOL at all the folks here egging on the OP to "take the seller to small claims court".

Spoken like true internet warriors. Yeah, I'd like to see you go to small claims court for that. Then tell us (especially most of the responders in this thread) how easy and stress free it was. Oh yeah, also tell us "you were doing it for the principle". Yeah, I'd like to see that.

Next time, be more specific. Don't use ambiguous terms like "idiot marks".

Face it. You got hosed. Cut your losses. l
Learn from this mistake. Don't do it again. Move on.

small claims court..........LOL!

as long as its not my money and time lololol

Serafino
04-29-2011, 6:19 PM
Scotch-brite pads have a lot of give to them, wouldn't they be likely to round over edges if used for this?

Bizcuits
04-29-2011, 6:19 PM
Not trying to be an a *****, but this is why I don't buy mail order guns from private sellers (vendors are a different story) and why I refuse to ship guns I sale. If you can't look the goods over before you hand over the cash, then in my opinion the faults on both parties. You assumed the risk, and he scammed the fool who was willing to assume it.

I agree with the cut your losses crowd, the effort and time for getting your money back won't really be worth it. If the gun still fires, consider it a trunk gun and not a safe queen. The plus side is you won't be worried about scratching it up. You called the dude out, leave negative feedback and see if the Admins will not anything further.

Although I'm not $700 bucks in the hole either, so I could be wrong.

Also, if you really feel that small claims court is worth it and you live anywhere within an hour of Sacramento, I'll make you a deal. I'll give you $300 cash for it. Subtract your filing fees, time off work to show up at court, effort to present the case, tracking down the guy and the 50/50 chance of losing, you'll still be in about the same boat and you won't have to look at the gun, plus I'll have a new trunk pistol to beat up.

scorpionking
04-29-2011, 6:19 PM
Hmmm...........95% of the people who have read this thread know what an idiot mark is........those who don't are..........well............you know.

You ARE correct about SC court, not worth it...................as many people have pointed out.

When the OP stands in front of a judge (who is probably a gun hating libtard Democrap) and he starts saying stuff like:

1. Well your honor, I asked if there were any idiot marks...
2. Well your honor, 95% of Calgunners know what idiot marks are....

you can bet he's gonna win his case. Because 95% of Calgunners know that 95% of small claims court judges know what "idiot marks" are.

You folks truly live in such a tiny, tiny, isolated world of your own and assume the rest of society know what your secret handshake is.

707electrician
04-29-2011, 6:21 PM
I would first try to get ahold of him for him to make it right.

If he ignores you then I would give him negative feedback certainly. I would never buy from someone with that few posts unless they had A LOT of positive feedback or I could meet them in person.

Going to court is going to be a waste of time and money even if you win.

Im not a 1911 expert but $700 seems like a decent price even with the idiot marks. HOWEVER, the seller should have made this information clear in his ad rather than hiding it.

I don't think what the seller paid makes any difference. If it is worth the asking price, who cares what he paid for it.

In any event I would be pissed as well

paul0660
04-29-2011, 6:27 PM
When the OP stands in front of a judge (who is probably a gun hating libtard Democrap) and he starts saying stuff like:

1. Well your honor, I asked if there were any idiot marks...
2. Well your honor, 95% of Calgunners know what idiot marks are....

you can bet he's gonna win his case. Because 95% of Calgunners know that 95% of small claims court judges know what "idiot marks" are.

You folks truly live in such a tiny, tiny, isolated world of your own and assume the rest of society know what your secret handsake is.

You are right, your honor, we would have to clean up the presentation to win the case. Wouldn't be too difficult, but we WOULD have to spell handshake correctly. And refrain from calling you an idiot...............there, I did it. I refrained.

Cokebottle
04-29-2011, 6:29 PM
I would consider that a double idiot mark.
That's not an idiot mark... that's a MORON mark!

For it to go top to bottom with the slide in that position, it was the work of a complete moron. It would be more understandable if the top scratch were in line with the cut in the slide.

Ya, he probably did it installing the extended release. I'd be worried that the beavertail wasn't installed properly.

Cokebottle
04-29-2011, 6:31 PM
am i understanding this correctly? he bought it for 400 and sold it the op for 700? wow...that in itself is wrong. profit is cool but that much?
In fairness, he installed a beavertail and extended slide release, but that doesn't add $300 to the value of a MilSpec.
IMHO, OP did overpay by at least $100, but he should not have gotten THAT!

MicronuT
04-29-2011, 6:32 PM
R u gona tell us who it is?

People might be buying things from him right now

scorpionking
04-29-2011, 6:35 PM
You are right, your honor, we would have to clean up the presentation to win the case. Wouldn't be too difficult, but we WOULD have to spell handshake correctly. And refrain from calling you an idiot...............there, I did it. I refrained.

How is the OP going to clean up his presentation?

Judge: Did you ask the seller if there were SCRATCHES on the firearm?
OP: yes, your honor
Judge: Please show me the PM or email
OP: here you go your honor, it's very clear right there.
Judge: Where?
OP: (rolls eyes as only Calgunners would) RIGHT THERE!
Judge: Please approach the bench and show me where you asked if there were any SCRATCHES on the gun.
OP: (approaches bench and highlights "idiot marks")
Judge: Mr. Seller, did he ask you if there were any "idiot marks"?
Seller: Yes your honor.
Judge: Are there any idiot marks? Do you know what idiot marks are?
Seller: No your honor.
Judge: Did he ask you of there were any scratches on the firearm?
Seller: No your honor.


Yeah, try to clean up that presentation. LOL!

MaHoTex
04-29-2011, 6:37 PM
R u gona tell us who it is?

People might be buying things from him right now

Read the posts... It is in there.

oldsmoboat
04-29-2011, 6:38 PM
As a side note, the whole iTrader rating system is worthless if you don't leave accurate ratings. Or don't leave one at all.

FCinCA
04-29-2011, 6:39 PM
This forum has too many good people on it to let this slide. Mods need to ban the seller and you need to do what you feel is right. For me, time is money. He should make it good and give you some reimbursement.

dmcag69
04-29-2011, 6:46 PM
Private party transfers are AS IS, you get what you payed for. Some guys here sell Marlin 22lr rifles with 3,000 rounds through them for the same price that you can buy new. All used guns here should be pennies on the dollar, cut your losses, dros the gun then put it on consignment, one man's trash is another man's treasure. Take him to the People's court, it's a 30 second case, Secondhand products are AS IS. Scratches are wear. All guns get scratches.

Q619
04-29-2011, 6:49 PM
If I were trying to repair that gun, I'd save time and just media blast the whole thing (after stripping all the parts off) then re-polish the flats by hand and leave it at around 400-600 grit before hitting it with some sort of polishing compound to give it a little shine. I've refinished plenty of knife blades this way and did a stainless 1911 as well. Guns are WAY easier to refinish since the metal is soft in comparison and takes a grain very well.

scorpionking
04-29-2011, 6:50 PM
Private party transfers are AS IS, you get what you payed for. Some guys here sell Marlin 22lr rifles with 3,000 rounds through them for the same price that you can buy new. All used guns here should be pennies on the dollar, cut your losses, dros the gun then put it on consignment, one man's trash is another man's treasure. Take him to the People's court, it's a 30 second case, Secondhand products are AS IS. Scratches are wear. All guns get scratches.

Finally. Someone who uses the big head instead of the little one to do the talking.

BTW, please let us know when your episode of The People's Court airs on TV, if you do decide to go that route. I'd like to watch that.

Then, during your testimony, yell the words "IDIOT MARKS" while looking straight into the camera. That would be a big holla to all your Calguns friends.
Yay!

SIGSHOOTR
04-29-2011, 6:52 PM
That sux-- the OP: hope you are made whole. To the seller: karma is a B****.

45R
04-29-2011, 6:55 PM
Send it to a gunsmith to have the slide and frame polished properly. The scratches will come out but it will take a little more than Fitz polish.

Ultimate
04-29-2011, 6:58 PM
Cut your losses. Learn from YOUR mistake. If you like the gun fix it. If you don't sell it and start your search over. It is good that you made the post so people are reminded that not every person or even establishment that sells a firearm is honest so take some precautions.

emc002
04-29-2011, 6:59 PM
I am VERY VERY BUSY and dont have time to sit around polishing this gun.
Why should I have to spend even 10 minutes(yet alone many many hours) to try to fix something?

Well, the time you spent crying about it on Calguns would probably be enough to polish it. I guess you're not THAT "VERY VERY BUSY" after all. Just saying...

paul0660
04-29-2011, 7:00 PM
Finally. Someone who uses the big head instead of the little one to do the talking.

BTW, please let us know when your episode of The People's Court airs on TV, if you do decide to go that route. I'd like to watch that.

Then, during your testimony, yell the words "IDIOT MARKS" while looking straight into the camera. That would be a big holla to all your Calguns friends.
Yay!

I reread the thread and realize you are correct, an idiot mark isn't necessarily a scratch, to the "uniformed". If that was the total communication about defects between buyer and seller, the buyer was way too specific, and would have trouble in court if he does not have photos better than the two I have seen.

I also realized you aren't an idiot, you are a smartass*******. Let's argue again.

Ranger20
04-29-2011, 7:03 PM
WOW this is the 95th post about this gun what a waste of time.. oh well here goes...


16 hours of driving Gas cost, court fees, Time from work...
Proving your case..

And then there is the matter of bringing your 1911 into court... Perhaps they will need to
hold onto it for some reason...

Not to mention collecting damages or....
Good luck...
_________________________________
Lesson learned... Look b4 you buy..

I'd rather have a scratch and the gun shoots great than the other way around.

Clean it up, shoot it, or sell it. Move on... life is to short..

Ya I'd be pissed too but also at myself for not seeing it first or having an agreement to see it and not shoot it refund built into your deal with your FFL holding it. and His FFL holding your funds for 3 days.

At least it is stainless which is easier to fix than a blued gun.

Buy new or do PPTs from now on I bet you will be happier with your purchases.

Insert "DUH" ... Here... ;)

PS... The seller should be banned... from Calguns. or at minimum not have access to the classifieds area. He Seems like a Liar and a Dirtbag..

paul0660
04-29-2011, 7:06 PM
16 hours of driving Gas cost, court fees, Time from work...
Proving your case..

And then there is the matter of bringing your 1911 into court...
not to mention collecting damages or....
Good luck...

Lesson learned... Look b4 you buy..

I'd rather have a scratch and the gun shoots great than the other way around.

Clean it up, shoot it, or sell it. Move on... life is to short..

Ya I'd be pissed too but also at myself for not seeing it first or having an agreement to see it and not shoot it refund built into your deal with your FFL holding it. and His FFL holding your funds for 3 days.

At least it is stainless which is easier to fix than a blued gun.

The SC case could be done in the buyers jurisdiction. Still not worth it.

BamBam-31
04-29-2011, 7:07 PM
Kinda OT, but I ran into a less than honest Calguns seller as well: guniorcbr. He intentionally misrepresented the condition of a Savage .223 bolt rifle. Fortunately, I was handy enough to fix what was wrong with it, but when confronted with his dishonesty, he refused to make amends. I contacted Kestryll and informed him of the situation, then I had my positive feedback for guniorcbr changed to negative. He promptly left retaliatory negative feedback for me, but Kes took care of that as well. :thumbsup:

Later, I was contacted by another buyer who felt conned by guniorcbr. Same thing: gun's condition was seriously misrepresented. Seems like this guy sells a lot of guns on these boards and then promptly deletes his threads. BUYER BEWARE!

OP, definitely contact a Mod and leave negative feedback. These losers need to be outed for what they are. As for options for your particular situation, small claims court gives you a judgement--it's not credit, it's not a voucher, you can't buy groceries with it. It's just a piece of paper, and the reality is if the guy isn't gonna pay, it's gonna be hard to recover your money. Take it to the range and shoot it--if it shoots well, refinish it. Hopefully, the Mods will see fit to ban the guy for being the shyster he is.

RawImpact
04-29-2011, 7:10 PM
am i understanding this correctly? he bought it for 400 and sold it the op for 700? wow...that in itself is wrong. profit is cool but that much? no way. when i've sold my guns i don't make double what i paid for it. i want to make some profit, but i want the buyer to enjoy it. and to use different pics? not kosher at all. to the op i'm sorry you have to deal with this. polish it up and i hope it's a good shooter for you. good luck.


What's wrong with adjusting the price to what you feel is right? Hell if i got a deal on an AR for say $300.00 and i can sell it to someone who hasn't done their homework for $450 i will do it.

BTW you are also assuming the seller didn't do any work to the pistol, it could have been in worse shape for all we know and he may have gotten it refinished. Either way, the seller has the right to name his price and the buyer has the right to walk.

And to the OP, quote the OP whenever you're purchasing something on this forum. He can change the OP but it will still be cited as you read it the day you responded. With that said, i will drink a beer on your behalf tonight.

Ranger20
04-29-2011, 7:16 PM
The SC case could be done in the buyers jurisdiction. Still not worth it.


I totally agree...


Like I added the seller should be banned from calguns or at least from the classifieds...

jyo
04-29-2011, 7:22 PM
Well, first of all, sorry about your experience, I must say that all of my buying/selling on Calguns has been very up-front about condition of whatever product we are haggling over---but then again, most of my deals have been FTF. I can certainly see why this fellow wanted to ship and not FTF! Now for the good news---being a stainless pistol, you can probably achive a good match on the finish using a green Scotchbrite pad---this will give you a "satin" finish pretty close to the factory orig. finish in about a half an hour or so---rub in the same direction as the factory polish job. Good luck and go slow---you should be able to remove the worst of it. Try to go FTF on your next buy!

scorpionking
04-29-2011, 7:23 PM
I reread the thread and realize you are correct, an idiot mark isn't necessarily a scratch, to the "uniformed". If that was the total communication about defects between buyer and seller, the buyer was way too specific, and would have trouble in court if he does not have photos better than the two I have seen.

I also realized you aren't an idiot, you are a smartass*******. Let's argue again.

What kind of uniform? LEO uniform? Military uniform? Nurses' uniform?

Tell you what: I'll trade my "handsake" (handshake) for your "uniform" (uninformed) and call it even. That makes us both smartass *******s.

supersonic
04-29-2011, 7:32 PM
Lol. Not trying to get testy. Sorry if it came off that way. Just frustrated with the situation. Thanks to TacticalCity and all others who posted suggestions. Looks like i've got to try that stuff.

Well, for starters, where are you located? I'm in Sac, have FLITZ, WON'T travel!:p ... You can have it done for free:D ...if you wanna come by.;)

paul0660
04-29-2011, 7:33 PM
What kind of uniform? LEO uniform? Military uniform? Nurses' uniform?

Tell you what: I'll trade my "handsake" (handshake) for your "uniform" (uninformed) and call it even. That makes us both smartass *******s.

You got me. Deal.

Mr. Beretta
04-29-2011, 7:43 PM
Keep the gun and either clean it up or shoot as is. They're solid 1911's.

Contact (if you haven't already) a mod, explain what's up & see if they can help with any price adjustment. Plus hopefully the mod can encourage the seller to post in this thread with an explanation.

If all fails, give the seller a negative feedback and go on with life. Any kind of court action would be a waste of time.

JMHO

Kerplow
04-29-2011, 7:47 PM
I don't think there would be any reason to polish it. It's a brushed finish.

Obviously a total BUFFOON owned the weapon once.

I have several Stainless 1911s....what you will have to do is mask the damage off; the satin finish next to the trigger is put on with a bead blasting gun. This area can be salvaged if you find a Gun Smith that has a fine/glass bead machine. He will have to mask the frame off and redo the scratched area.

That BIG mutha on the shiny part of the slide is another issue. That will take some serious labor; perhaps a skilled Gun Smith can remove most of the scratch, however when he 'polishes' that area it will get a mirror finish so the entire SLIDE will have to be done to match.

If you feel the weapon is a good one; with all the options she does look good....you might consider just refinishing the ENTIRE Slide in Hard Chrome?

Or another finish system...Duracoat, Re' Blue, Teflon, or how about having the slide Machine Turned with several circles/ have the serrations cut so it looks like a Cobra Carry..?...lol

Several options my friend.

I would give the guy a negative i Trader rating if he doesn't send you a couple hundred for the refinish cost.

Just my opinion...sorry for your problems.....

ALL the people I've dealt with on this forum are STAND UP HONEST.

Bob

Scratch705
04-29-2011, 7:54 PM
just a fyi, with the CA budget cuts, the civil side of the court system is now backed up more than usual. a simple matter like this may take years to resolve by the court.

now if you can get it to be a criminal trial, that would be done quicker. and since he did use the postal system, this can be considered wire or mail fraud.

mikaarce
04-29-2011, 8:02 PM
Sad.

bombadillo
04-29-2011, 8:07 PM
Leave the bad feedback on Itrader. I look at it VERY close and am actually mid deal with somebody waiting on a trade for sights while he ships his carry handle. I agreed to do it only if he would ship his first and I can inspect it and the forge mark. He agreed so I just got it and its fine, so now I need to mail out the MBUS sights promised. It worked out for him and myself, and all it took was a little patience on his part and understanding that he was a newb with 0 posts and 0 feedback.

Also, buffing is gonna be way better than court and you could turn around and get most or all of your money out of a stainless springfield when you decide to buff that out especially since it has some decent upgrades.

angelina
04-29-2011, 8:23 PM
Well, first of all, sorry about your experience, I must say that all of my buying/selling on Calguns has been very up-front about condition of whatever product we are haggling over---but then again, most of my deals have been FTF. I can certainly see why this fellow wanted to ship and not FTF! Now for the good news---being a stainless pistol, you can probably achive a good match on the finish using a green Scotchbrite pad---this will give you a "satin" finish pretty close to the factory orig. finish in about a half an hour or so---rub in the same direction as the factory polish job. Good luck and go slow---you should be able to remove the worst of it. Try to go FTF on your next buy!

agreed. I won't buy used unless I can check out the gun before paying. even new- I look that gun over before signing for it and leaving the store. I just sold a glock here. had a lot of offers to ship it but wouldn't. I want to be able to give the buyer a chance to look it over and check out the gun. that way they know what they are getting before money is paid.



anyway- that 1911 looks awesome. got a couple battle wounds but hey- I'd still take it. not for 7 bills.

PatriotnMore
04-29-2011, 8:27 PM
agreed. I won't buy used unless I can check out the gun before paying. even new- I look that gun over before signing for it and leaving the store. I just sold a glock here. had a lot of offers to ship it but wouldn't. I want to be able to give the buyer a chance to look it over and check out the gun. that way they know what they are getting before money is paid.



anyway- that 1911 looks awesome. got a couple battle wounds but hey- I'd still take it. not for 7 bills.

I've sold two pistols shipped to buyer. I always give them one week after delivery to FFL, to look it over and return it, if they felt I mis-represented it. I don't want an unhappy buyer, and I don't want my itrader to have a negative.

hornswaggled
04-29-2011, 8:30 PM
That's the idiot mark to end all idiot marks. I can understand not quite knowing how to get the plunger in and scratching it up from below, but what kind of F-tard etches a half moon shape on his slide using the slide stop like a goddam math compass?

Ding126
04-29-2011, 8:37 PM
Thats the biggest IDIOT mark I have ever seen...I would be upset it that was not disclosed as well...Use it as a learning experience..shoot it enjoy it and if it bothers you too much...send it to Springfield for refinishing...yes it will cost you..chock it up to experience. On the bright side you got the pistol where I have seen people not get the rifle or pistol they Private party purchased on line.

The seller should be BANNED

Echidin
04-29-2011, 8:37 PM
Some people will say or do anything to make a quick buck and sadly even some calgunners are no exception.

tonelar
04-29-2011, 8:37 PM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=92207&d=1301603177
i can see someone being unclear on the meaning of "idiot mark"
but he did use an older pic of the 1911 in his ad

FourLoko
04-29-2011, 8:46 PM
buyer beware, you could have easily checked his previous posts

or asked for pictures with his username in them, then they would have to be new pics

you paid close to half of retail correct?

annoying yes, but still a deal

BigDogatPlay
04-29-2011, 8:49 PM
Not sure what monetary damages would be sought after in a small claims action. Considering that what's present will most likely polish out, and the gun was purchased at 50% of retail, I wouldn't be too angry too long. Get mad, get over it, and enjoy putting a nice finish on your new gun.

Yes, initially I'd be pissed and I'd out the guy publicly. But that's just me.

goldduster
04-29-2011, 8:50 PM
+1 for Ranger20! In addition do not forget that if your go to court and you are 100% in the right; you have a 25% chance of losing; and if you are 100% in the wrong you have a 25% chance of winning. What was done is terrible, but at least the most you are out is $700, it could have been a lot worse.

tacticalcity
04-29-2011, 8:52 PM
Cancel payment on his check. Or paypal. Take him to court. Heck you have his address order a bus full of strippers, along with 100 pizzas to his house for being a jack *****. When don't need low lives like that. Posts that he got it for $400 bucks and says you got what you paid for. A big middle finger to that guy.

That is a good point. If he used PayPal, well guns are a violation of the policy so report him for both that and the fact that he sent an item totally not as described. If you used a credit card, just call them and do a charge back. If you sent a money order...nothing you can do.

You tried to work it out with him and return it. He refused. So you can do a charge back if you paid electronically and not feel quilty or be breaking the law. It is ethical and legal. He is the one not being ethical. His ad did not say "AS IS" and it did misrepresent the condition of the item. So if you paid electronically you are in great shape and he is totally screwed.

This is not something I recommend doing when the seller is willing to work with you. Because you only get to do it so many times before your credit card company or PayPal wonder about you. But in this case, it is totally justified.

gatesbox
04-29-2011, 9:05 PM
Really sorry to hear this, while I'm not totally sold on the behavior and comments in some threads, I have not yet had a bad experience with A Calgunner in person, and have had very good experience selling Agee things and buying as well.

I would be very interested to know how a small claims case would go....I suspect this is buyer beware territory, and that this is a quantifiable risk in buying sight unseen....you have provided evidence that the p,ics provided were from a time period before some mods were made...it's a very bad situation and I'd be mad as well....but I doubt there is much recourse other than at most a forum ban..

Cokebottle
04-29-2011, 9:12 PM
you paid close to half of retail correct?
It's a Milspec with a couple of mods.
MSRP is $843
He paid $700.

I've seen stainless Milspec models in excellent condition at Bright Spot Pawn for $600.

Cokebottle
04-29-2011, 9:15 PM
the gun was purchased at 50% of retail,
The seller bought the gun for $400.
The OP paid $150 under MSRP... $300 more than the seller paid for it.

Tony.
04-29-2011, 9:29 PM
Search Calguns for the "idiot mark" thread. Find all of the Calgunners that consider an idiot mark a "badge of honor" and sell it to them. They should be stoked to have a gun with so much "honor"....

mlevans66
04-29-2011, 9:30 PM
That said, I'll give you $401.00 and you can cut your loss :D

Killa, if you're to busy to polish your weapon then you got no time for small claims court. Did the guy do you dirty? Yes! Did he fail you? Most Epically but you got a lot of stuff with that gun. So give him up to the mods and give hima bad rate.

As for the above quote, man that just plain wrong.....I'll give you 400.00 and you can keep two mags. :D

resident-shooter
04-29-2011, 10:02 PM
he pwnd u lyke no0b

baz152
04-30-2011, 1:01 AM
How do you know that your FFL was not FF'ing it and messed it up? You will not win a small claims case due to that fact. The only way you would win would be if you were the FFL, UPS drops off the firearm and you video yourself opening the package and unavail your firearm all scratched up. The seller is going to say that it is a case of buyers remorse.

A gun is a weapon of war and meant to be used. In my opinion the more dents, dings and scratches a gun has in it the more character it has. As long as the firearm functions it is not that big of a deal. While yes it is CS that the seller may have lied to you, you still got a decent gun at a good price. If its appearance bugs you polish the scratches out, otherwise shoot it and put some of your own scratches in it.

Bulleh
04-30-2011, 1:12 AM
How do you know that your FFL was not FF'ing it and messed it up? You will not win a small claims case due to that fact. The only way you would win would be if you were the FFL, UPS drops off the firearm and you video yourself opening the package and unavail your firearm all scratched up. The seller is going to say that it is a case of buyers remorse.

Sadly, this is probably what's going to happen unless you have one heck of a lawyer (not really worth it in this case).

You did the right thing warning us about this shady CalGunner. Leave the appropriate iTrader feedback and alert the mods.

rubber duckie
04-30-2011, 1:37 AM
do a chargeback or file a claim through paypal. please tell us you didnt send a check or money order.

glock7
04-30-2011, 1:39 AM
Originally Posted by angelina
agreed. I won't buy used unless I can check out the gun before paying. even new- I look that gun over before signing for it and leaving the store. I just sold a glock here. had a lot of offers to ship it but wouldn't. I want to be able to give the buyer a chance to look it over and check out the gun. that way they know what they are getting before money is paid.



anyway- that 1911 looks awesome. got a couple battle wounds but hey- I'd still take it. not for 7 bills.
I've sold two pistols shipped to buyer. I always give them one week after delivery to FFL, to look it over and return it, if they felt I mis-represented it. I don't want an unhappy buyer, and I don't want my itrader to have a negative.

An honest seller....imagine that. What I've learned from this post is that some of you folks are good folks and I would buy a gun from you. And some of you...I definitely would not buy from without doing my due diligence. A toast to the honest ones....

CharlesV
04-30-2011, 2:43 AM
About the gun, it really looks sweet and if it were mine i'd have it professionally cleaned up, eat the bill, forget it and have a real gem. Yes this sucks but we're only talking cosmetic scratches that you could easily have done yourself within the first five times at a range. Life is much too short to worry this and the time youve spent posting you could have cured the whole mess.

About the seller, when buying something secondhand i believe it cannot be perfect and when a seller says it is im highly sceptical. I expect scratches, i expect something. So when i seller says "here are where the skeletons are buried" im more than likely to buy from him because of the honesty and we can work out a good solution. There is nothing in the world like an honest seller and i stick with them forever.

Who hasnt has this experience like this buyer (of any kind of item) and you get this seller reply who claimed it was MINT, PERFECT, FLAWLESS:
"I never said it was new."
"What do you expect for an old gun?"
"Didnt you know this is secondhand?"
"Wow youre so picky."
"This your first time buying a gun??"
"You musta did somethin' "
"Ohhhh youre talking NEW. Why didnt you buy new??"
"Even new guns have scratches! Geez, some people..."

Sellers fear you wont buy if they are truly honest but its the opposite. Let this thread be a lesson to all of us to fearlessly be the top of honesty. We'll buy, sell and make better friends and very happily so.

sddav73
04-30-2011, 3:06 AM
About the gun, it really looks sweet and if it were mine i'd have it professionally cleaned up, eat the bill, forget it and have a real gem. Yes this sucks but we're only talking cosmetic scratches that you could easily have done yourself within the first five times at a range. Life is much too short to worry this and the time youve spent posting you could have cured the whole mess.

About the seller, when buying something secondhand i believe it cannot be perfect and when a seller says it is im highly sceptical. I expect scratches, i expect something. So when i seller says "here are where the skeletons are buried" im more than likely to buy from him because of the honesty and we can work out a good solution. There is nothing in the world like an honest seller and i stick with them forever.

Who hasnt has this experience like this buyer (of any kind of item) and you get this seller reply who claimed it was MINT, PERFECT, FLAWLESS:
"I never said it was new."
"What do you expect for an old gun?"
"Didnt you know this is secondhand?"
"Wow youre so picky."
"This your first time buying a gun??"
"You musta did somethin' "
"Ohhhh youre talking NEW. Why didnt you buy new??"
"Even new guns have scratches! Geez, some people..."

Sellers fear you wont buy if they are truly honest but its the opposite. Let this thread be a lesson to all of us to fearlessly be the top of honesty. We'll buy, sell and make better friends and very happily so.
PLS go thru the whole thread, check the pics that were posted by the SELLER, compare those to the pics from the BUYER. The OP bought the item based on this: pics and info from the seller that the item didn't have "idiot marks", and it was posted here on CGN, not a CL post.

chim-chim7
04-30-2011, 3:24 AM
Buyer Beware.

Rob454
04-30-2011, 5:19 AM
my 2cents.. Polish it first.

And FYI, Small Claims court AINT FREE. The time, hassle and headache just might not be worth it. Even for honor, integrity or principal. Suck it up and consider it a life lesson.

Like Tacticalcity said, those upgrades arent cheap. Is this a Safe Queen or a range gun?

just my 2cents.

Sorry but i disagree. It's my money and I want it now. If I paid 700$ to get a gun that supposedly was in BNIB condition thats what I expect. If it had scratches and wear then I would of made a offer according to condition. Because it has whatever mods done to it is inconsequential. Thats like buying a car thats really fast only to find out someone side swiped it and the seller tells you yeah but its still worth what you paid for it.

its amazing how many people WILLINGLY let themselves get screwed over because of "time hassle and might not be worth it" excuse. I would also liek to see if you can sue in a court in your area since the sale happen over the internet, where did the actual sale take place. At the FFL? Thats where the ownership paperwork took place so wouldnt that be the place of sale. Then he has to come to you and drive 8 hours. If he does not show he loses.

OP if you like the gun polish it and keep it. Sorry to hear you had a bad experience. Most of the guys on here I found to be honest and had integrity.
Seems like to a lot of people honesty integrity and principal went by the wayside along with the economy

glock7
04-30-2011, 5:51 AM
In fairness, he installed a beavertail and extended slide release, but that doesn't add $300 to the value of a MilSpec.
IMHO, OP did overpay by at least $100, but he should not have gotten THAT!

i did not realize he had done the mods, yes which would increase value, but as you noted not that much, and still does not address the fact that the pics are slightly different. buyer beware. ftf where you can peruse the item is definitely the best course of action.

glock7
04-30-2011, 5:57 AM
How do you know that your FFL was not FF'ing it and messed it up? You will not win a small claims case due to that fact. The only way you would win would be if you were the FFL, UPS drops off the firearm and you video yourself opening the package and unavail your firearm all scratched up. The seller is going to say that it is a case of buyers remorse.

A gun is a weapon of war and meant to be used. In my opinion the more dents, dings and scratches a gun has in it the more character it has. As long as the firearm functions it is not that big of a deal. While yes it is CS that the seller may have lied to you, you still got a decent gun at a good price. If its appearance bugs you polish the scratches out, otherwise shoot it and put some of your own scratches in it.

i agree a gun should be shot, but there are some folks who like the safe queens and don't even shoot their guns, crazy, but thats what they like. myself i don't mind scuffing up a gun myself, key word being myself. my personal preference is not to buy a gun that's as marred up as the op's. if so i'll buy it but not at that price...maybe the op can contact the seller( i know he's tried) and mediate this thing themselves. it would behoove the seller to rectify this transaction by refunding a portion of the monies....good luck to all.

kayaker
04-30-2011, 6:06 AM
Looks like it was stripped and assembled by a blind man.

BDH
04-30-2011, 6:07 AM
Baz152 hit it on the head.

1. You were not there when the FFL opened the box. Reasonable doubt...
2. If you get a judgement, how do you collect? Small claims court fees are usually not awarded either. You're out them one way or the other, and still have to collect.
3. Data on photo says old...will FFL say condition upon receipt? He may not want to get involved.
4. You're still hot. Don't blame you, but best to hammer jthe erk and check around and see where else he posts...ream him there too.
5. Flitz it and shoot the hell out it.

Bruce

glock7
04-30-2011, 6:12 AM
What's wrong with adjusting the price to what you feel is right? Hell if i got a deal on an AR for say $300.00 and i can sell it to someone who hasn't done their homework for $450 i will do it.

BTW you are also assuming the seller didn't do any work to the pistol, it could have been in worse shape for all we know and he may have gotten it refinished. Either way, the seller has the right to name his price and the buyer has the right to walk.

And to the OP, quote the OP whenever you're purchasing something on this forum. He can change the OP but it will still be cited as you read it the day you responded. With that said, i will drink a beer on your behalf tonight.

nothing wrong with adjusting the price. i realize that some people will jack up the prices, and some as i do will only look for a small profit. i try not to take advantage of people but that's just me. i sleep well at night;) i do agree with you on quoting the seller when you send the pm, myself as the seller i will reiterate sale price, meeting place, other pertinent info such as fees and whatnot. in regards to the op's sale if you look at the before pics it's fine, after the extended safety...not so much. buyer beware is correct, but disclosure should be taken into account by the seller.:patriot:

glock7
04-30-2011, 6:15 AM
Looks like it was stripped and assembled by a blind man.

:smilielol5:

Dion
04-30-2011, 6:23 AM
I think you have every right to be upset, I know I would be.

I'd try to buff it out as advised above, and chalk it up to experience.

The reason I say that is this

Small claims court is not a slam dunk

First, there may be some problem as to which court to apply, that is, his town , or your town, or the FFL's town.

Second, you will have to PROVE he said the gun had no scratches on it.

The term "Idiot marks" won't cut it in court, too ambiguous, even though we all know what the term means.

You would have to be ready for him to say the scratches were caused in transit, or by the FFL.

I think it would be a tough case to win

I have been to small claims court 4 times and have won all 4.

Even if you win, he has 30 days to appeal, and even then, now you have to collect.

If he doesn't pay up, and he very well may not, you take the judgement to the county sheriff

And they got to his place of employment to garnish his wages

If you don't know where he works, you'd have to get him to fill out a special form declaring his assets.

He can stall and stall.

It goes on and on.

Get my point?

This the most prudent advice in this thread (as well as Tactical City). Small claims will take a very long time and is time consuming. If you don't have the time for some Fitz and elbow grease on a Sunday afternoon, then I would think again about small claims.

This guy was a buffoon for misrepresenting. $700 is not an absolutely bad deal, but I can see where you're coming from.

FTF - always.

HPGunner
04-30-2011, 6:37 AM
Small profit? I typically lose money when I sell a used gun. I'm lucky to break even and that doesnt include sales tax and DROS.

This is the exact reason I would not buy a used gun unless it's a face to face transaction where I can inspect and walk away if it's not what I expect the condition to be. I guess we should let this be a lesson learned and next time arrange for a payment after inspection or through pay pal.

Don't new stainless Springfield mil specs list for $700. At that price for a used one I would expect the gun to be LNIB.

WTSGDYBBR
04-30-2011, 6:49 AM
I would be very upset unless it was like a smoking deal close to giving it away.

glock7
04-30-2011, 7:13 AM
Small profit? I typically lose money when I sell a used gun. I'm lucky to break even and that doesnt include sales tax and DROS.

This is the exact reason I would not buy a used gun unless it's a face to face transaction where I can inspect and walk away if it's not what I expect the condition to be. I guess we should let this be a lesson learned and next time arrange for a payment after inspection or through pay pal.

Don't new stainless Springfield mil specs list for $700. At that price for a used one I would expect the gun to be LNIB.

i agree...for me a small profit is 20-50 bucks. i've lost some bucks myself, but hey....i figure i got my use out of the gun and someone else can enjoy it. and yeah they list for around 700, as i said, you have to do your research...and if you jack up your prices it'll probably sit for awhile...

Tacticool
04-30-2011, 7:30 AM
I did my non FTF transaction on a gun I purchased and my FFL asked me to inspect the gun before we started the paper work. After about 3 minutes of looking at it my FFL asked me if I was satisfied.

To the OP.....didn't you inspect the gun before you started the paperwork? The gun that was shipped to my FFL was sitting in front of me the whole time through the DROS process and I couldn't stop picking it up to look at it. If you weren't satisfied, you could refuse doing DROS and the gun would still be in his name.

Latigo
04-30-2011, 7:42 AM
There's something else some webmasters and mods do. Compare notes. I'm a mod on a board and when we have a scammer member we'll not only out him but we send his name and email address to other boards within our community. It makes it much harder for the scammer to get a foot in the door.

ke6guj
04-30-2011, 8:17 AM
am i understanding this correctly? he bought it for 400 and sold it the op for 700? wow...that in itself is wrong. profit is cool but that much? no way. when i've sold my guns i don't make double what i paid for it. i want to make some profit, but i want the buyer to enjoy it. and to use different pics? not kosher at all. to the op i'm sorry you have to deal with this. polish it up and i hope it's a good shooter for you. good luck.

That was my take on it. He bought it for $400 and sold it for $700 by lying... err... not being up front about the condition.

The seller bought the gun for $400.
The OP paid $150 under MSRP... $300 more than the seller paid for it.


Am I the only one that thinks what the seller paid for the gun doesn't matter. What it it was given to him in via an estate. Since his cost basis is $0, is he only allowed to sell it for a small profit? If $700 is a fair price for the gun (not saying that it is with that scratch) then he should be able to sell it for $700.

If, one day I come across a deal on a M1 carbine for $300 or so, does that mean that I were to sell it some day, I have to base my selling price on the $300 I paid for it, and not on the $500-$1000 value it may really have?

gmcal
04-30-2011, 9:01 AM
With scratches like that the seller should have definitely took new pictures. Depending on the parts used and who did the work, the modifications could easily cost $300, maybe more.

You could try to fix it yourself or contact a reputable 1911 smith and get a quote for the repair. Maybe make some other upgrades if you want while the smith has it. Sights come to mind but you probably have better eyes than I do so the milspec sights may work for you.

I've used Robar for custom work, including refinishing, and I recommend them if you decide to go that route. It may be cheaper than small claims court.

Lumpia is sarap!
04-30-2011, 9:07 AM
This is a good lesson about buying a gun that you've never physically seen before laying down the Benjamins.

Sorry about your ordeal.

gbarbo001
04-30-2011, 9:12 AM
That's the worst idiot mark I've ever seen.

marcus_bervus
04-30-2011, 10:11 AM
don't get mad, take him to the cleaner!

JDW67
04-30-2011, 10:15 AM
Hunt him down...

WARDOG
04-30-2011, 10:28 AM
You have gotten a lot of good advice. I would be as mad as you are, even though I have few safe queens and most of my guns are used as tools for protection in all weather, carry, and hunting.
It looks like you can get most of those scratches out with a little work. Luckily it is stainless.
I have a concern I was waiting for someone else to bring up. If the 'tard selling this couldn't manage to put the gun together correctly, I would be concerned about who installed the 'modifications'. Take the gun apart and look at the pins to see if this jackwagon installed the modifications with a brick and chisel. Ensure it is safe to shoot, then take it to the range. If it is a 'shooter' then leave the proper feedback, and contact the mods.
Good Luck!

Foriegn power
04-30-2011, 10:36 AM
Why don't you the original poster just sell the gun to the someone on here, they even offered you the same amount of what you paid for it. Just take this as a life course lesson.

The Gleam
04-30-2011, 11:24 AM
That is the single largest assembly scratch I've ever seen on a 1911, and I've been through a lot of old Rem Rands.

+1 on the agree!

The Gleam
04-30-2011, 11:36 AM
Huh. I just noticed you didn't leave him a negative iTrader yet? Are you waiting for him to resolve the situation first?

Due to the hassle of small claims, the time you will spend pursuing it, the fact that you could end up losing in small claims on a he said/he said ambiguity, not worth that route. Even if you win, you won't be able to get back your lost time which might equal the price you paid for the gun when all done.

Being stainless finish rather than bluing or nickle, I would polish it out you best you can/make the best of it, then leave him a negative iTrader and not waste another minute on this loser.

Cokebottle
04-30-2011, 11:44 AM
If, one day I come across a deal on a M1 carbine for $300 or so, does that mean that I were to sell it some day, I have to base my selling price on the $300 I paid for it, and not on the $500-$1000 value it may really have?
But you wouldn't brag about it here if you had any plans to sell it.

The seller joined CGN a year ago,

He bought and installed the slide release 3/22/11
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=411694
Bragged about the $400 in January.

Cokebottle
04-30-2011, 11:47 AM
With scratches like that the seller should have definitely took new pictures. Depending on the parts used and who did the work, the modifications could easily cost $300, maybe more.
The only thing the seller did was install the slide release.
The beavertail and trigger were already on when the photo was taken a year ago (and it appears that the seller acquired the gun early this year).

He asked about how to polish the slide release, then a couple of weeks before he asked about how to replace the sights.

Cokebottle
04-30-2011, 11:49 AM
Why don't you the original poster just sell the gun to the someone on here, they even offered you the same amount of what you paid for it. Just take this as a life course lesson.
No they didn't.
They offered him what the seller paid for it... a little over half of what the OP paid.

12voltguy
04-30-2011, 12:04 PM
HERE IS PROBLEM WITH small claims court
say you win, you can win by default if he is a no show
now try & get paid
they don't take the guys $$ right there on the spot.
it's near impossable to collect without paying someone to go after him.
don't even waste your time & $$
get him kicked off this bb, leave a neg feedback
not much else you can do
scumbags are everywhere:(

gmcal
04-30-2011, 12:31 PM
The only thing the seller did was install the slide release.

The beavertail and trigger were already on when the photo was taken a year ago (and it appears that the seller acquired the gun early this year).

He asked about how to polish the slide release, then a couple of weeks before he asked about how to replace the sights.

I think it's likely the seller scratched the frame while installing the new slide release because I didn't see a scratch like that in his listing. It's possible it was there and either my computer monitor sucks or the picture sucks. If the scratches were not on the pistol in the pictures in the FS thread then he is wrong/shady and should have taken new pictures and disclosed the scratches.

I don't know who did the custom work or when it was done. My point is that if a competant smith does that work with quality parts then the $700 price, without the scratches, would be reasonable. How much the seller paid for it doesn't have much to do with the fair market price, although it would have been smart to keep it to himself.

I think the buyer has a reason to be mad, but I think the best path (least costly, least stressful) is to fix it himself if possible or have a competant smith do it. Or sell it.

jaymz
04-30-2011, 2:12 PM
How is the OP going to clean up his presentation?

Judge: Did you ask the seller if there were SCRATCHES on the firearm?
OP: yes, your honor
Judge: Please show me the PM or email
OP: here you go your honor, it's very clear right there.
Judge: Where?
OP: (rolls eyes as only Calgunners would) RIGHT THERE!
Judge: Please approach the bench and show me where you asked if there were any SCRATCHES on the gun.
OP: (approaches bench and highlights "idiot marks")
Judge: Mr. Seller, did he ask you if there were any "idiot marks"?
Seller: Yes your honor.
Judge: Are there any idiot marks? Do you know what idiot marks are?
Seller: No your honor.
Judge: Did he ask you of there were any scratches on the firearm?
Seller: No your honor.


Yeah, try to clean up that presentation. LOL!

Judge: So you are telling me that you don't know what an "idiot mark" is, yet you told the plaintiff that the firearm has no "idiot marks"?
Seller: Uhhhhhhh
Judge: I don't like liars in my courtroom! Judgement for the plaintiff. Pay the man!

Cleaned it up for you!

jumbopanda
04-30-2011, 2:52 PM
Why on earth would anyone waste their time and money going to court over a scratch on a gun? The seller was a douche for misrepresenting the gun, sure. Go ahead and leave him a negative feedback, but it's really nothing to get too butt-hurt over.

InGrAM
04-30-2011, 3:00 PM
Why on earth would anyone waste their time and money going to court over a scratch on a gun? The seller was a douche for misrepresenting the gun, sure. Go ahead and leave him a negative feedback, but it's really nothing to get too butt-hurt over.

How would you feel? If say, you bought an expensive guitar off of someone and everything was all well and nice. The finish was perfect, the neck was straight, frets were all level and not worn. BUT all of the paint was missing from the back side of the guitar, just bare wood.

The guitar still functions fine and sounds great BUT it looks like complete ****.

I would be more than pissed off if I was the buyer.

luckystrike
04-30-2011, 3:30 PM
worst comes to worst you can still sell it. its still a good pistol. just makesure you mention the scratches.

BTW, idiot marks are on the frame, retard marks are on the slide

chiselchst
04-30-2011, 3:34 PM
That is the single largest assembly scratch I've ever seen on a 1911, and I've been through a lot of old Rem Rands.

That's not an idiot mark, that's a (insert here) mark!

Ronk
04-30-2011, 3:36 PM
These comments about the scratches being no big deal are absolutely priceless and unrealistic at best, although I do agree, small claims is pointless, get the mods involved give the guy the ultimatum to refund part of your payment or leave neg feedback and go on with life, the price paid is also another laughing point for me, I don't care how many mods were done to this firearm, when you decide to do a deal, you do it thinking it is working out in your favor, this guy feels like he was ripped off and for those that think he feels wrongly about that, I would like to have your pockets and your outlook on how your money is spent. Again good luck with this deal, but as already said, I think you are left with what you have.

MacDime
04-30-2011, 4:11 PM
Well as Forrest Gump said "Life is like a box of chocolates you never know what your gonna get"

Q619
04-30-2011, 6:18 PM
At the very least you learned some lessons: Don't buy sight unseen, at least not off someone that isn't VERY well documented with a perfect seller rating to boot. Ask for detailed pictures. Ask specifics....about EVERYTHING. Don't trust someone's "It's in great shape", your definition and use of the same terms might be drastically different.

You got hosed. You're not getting your money back. Now you have to figure out what you want to do with the gun. Honestly, I'd just clean it up a little and shoot it :D

glock7
04-30-2011, 6:42 PM
OP, i am on your side. as you say, 99% of us here are pretty good, 1% rude and ignorant, but hey that's life. i hope you enjoy the gun. make lemonade my friend, make lemonade...

sequoia_nomad
04-30-2011, 6:45 PM
What do you care if I want a clean looking gun? Or at least one as described? I paid a FAIR price for that gun to be CLEAN. I would NOT have paid nearly that much had the condition been represented correctly/honestly. You tried bringing buying a used car into the picture... If KBB on a car is 10k in good conditon, would you be happy paying 10k. for the same car that has been keyed 20 times and in a fender bender? I mean...keyed paint doesn't affect the function does it they?

With you 100%. I've had similar experiences with used reloading equipment on ebay. People back east seem to consider rust "normal wear". Don't know what to tell you since you can't demand refund here like you can on ebay. I feel for you though, I'd be pretty damn burnt myself.

Ub3rDorK
04-30-2011, 6:46 PM
Ugh I dont see why people get so upset about scratches... He mis represented the gun...you got a pretty good deal Sure id be kinda upset but then id get over it because I bought the gun off the internet from some guy on a forum for a low price. Guns are tools, your crescent wrench doesnt lose value because its scratched. It doesnt make the gun shoot *** backwards... /Thread

Killer Bee
04-30-2011, 6:50 PM
I'll admit I haven't read every post in this thread but I feel obligated to say something..

for all of the attention the mods spend on editing Neil's, David's etc garbage in the OT lounge.. they need to step up and assist the OP in what is obviously a dishonest manuever by hi9mmpower, who was logged in as recently as yesterday? so are the moderators helping the OP establish comms?

there are several comments regarding how many or few posts the seller had.. useless statistic.. I probably have less than 5 listed.. I have deleted more than two thousand.. I delete my comments after I am finished with a conversation.. others can dribble on at a 50 posts/night rate and by no means makes them a "trusted" seller, buyer, trader.. the two are in no way related.. at <5 posts, I would never even consider ripping someone off like that.. buying or selling..

all of the other comments regarding the intent of the use of the gun, reasons people sell guns, reasons people keep guns, reasons people buy guns, etc.. are all moot.. the bottom line here is that someone deceptively sold something to someone else and they should be held accountable.. stupid comments about "crying" over it etc are immature and liken to the same behavior of the seller in this transaction..

If I were the OP, I would pursue the issue legally if the forum moderators are unable to convince the seller to refund the buyers money including transfer, shipping fees.. if that person is not stopped now and taught a lesson, who's next to get taken?

ivanimal
04-30-2011, 6:54 PM
Low class and uncool. Please contact me for further review. If you wish to pursue it.

Ivan

bombadillo
04-30-2011, 6:57 PM
Naw, the legal route would be stupid. Never get the money back and even if you did, big rip because how much time did you just spend getting a whopping $300 or so back.


I would take this thing and bling it out or duracoat it and make it something totally different, like an ACU slide and Black frame or something like that. You could do all kinds of cool things with it so just disregard being burned. Crap like this happens and all you can do is learn from your mistakes and roll with the punches. Put a piss poor Itrader feedback rating and be on with your day.

Trust me, this kind of crap all works itself out and whether you say its Karma, God, or otherwise, it DEFINITELY all comes back around in the long run. Make the best out of a nice gun that you got and shoot the piss out of it.

tacticalcity
04-30-2011, 6:57 PM
This is a good lesson about buying a gun that you've never physically seen before laying down the Benjamins.

Sorry about your ordeal.

The problem with taking that view point is that it really isn't like this here on Calguns or on Gunbroker.com. Not 99.999999999999999999999999999999% of the time. All my guns were bought sight unseen online. All were better than the listing said they were. I have only bought one gun online that I was not 100% happy with. And the seller did warn me.

tacticalcity
04-30-2011, 6:59 PM
Low class and uncool. Please contact me for further review. If you wish to pursue it.

Ivan

Ivan is a great guy. He will at least make sure the seller can't do it to anybody else.

sequoia_nomad
04-30-2011, 7:00 PM
looking at your iTrader (0) looks like you do not buy thru the internet, so I'll clue you in, most guns sold thru the internet are in fact "Show Pieces".. shocker. well not exactly, most people whom own guns and put them up for sale is because they have to. It's either financial reasons or significant other reasons. Most people whom own guns generally do not shoot them; because it's expensive to shoot and two it's more fun when groups go out to shoot


...most guns sold thru the internet are in fact "Show Pieces".. shocker. Where exactly do you get your facts here? I find the whole above quoted statement comical. That logic would apply for people whom buy guns for ridiculous reasons, mainly the "tough guy" factor I see all too often at a certain local gun shop. The guy that says "Yeah, let me see that Desert Eagle there.." with a bunch of idiot friends with him. Then buys it to show off.

I don't believe that describes "most people whom own guns."

And for what it's worth, a (0) itrader rating doesn't mean a member has never purchased a firearm online before.

You seem to spout a lot of made-up knowledge as fact.

tacticalcity
04-30-2011, 7:09 PM
buyer beware, you could have easily checked his previous posts

or asked for pictures with his username in them, then they would have to be new pics

you paid close to half of retail correct?

annoying yes, but still a deal

Why is it that all the posts like this one are from Junior Members?

We hold ourselves to a MUCH higher standard here fellas. Get used to it if you want to fit in.

The idea that a Calguns member would do this is sickening. We might argue over silly crap once in a while, but we do not screw each other over.

Cokebottle
04-30-2011, 7:10 PM
you got a pretty good deal
$700 for a MilSpec with a huge idiot mark and a retard mark is a "pretty good deal?"

That's $100 too high for a used Milspec in good condition.

jasagi77
04-30-2011, 7:16 PM
dear fellow cal gunner,

you just learned a lesson that many have learned the hard way from craigslist, ebay, and here at calguns. The lesson is to deal locally...face to face. Follow this rule when buying used and you'll be sure to be a more satisfied consumer. Complaining helps as it serves as a warning to others and a warning to the seller. Just know when to cut your losses. Small claims is probably NOT worth the time and stress. Look at all your options here. is the gun great otherwise (functional?)? you can resell it...you can trade it. Just remember the valuable lesson you learned from this because this experience will save you more than just money in the long run.

Regards,

J

Killer Bee
04-30-2011, 7:19 PM
internet anonymity..

I still contend member status is not related to trader rating.. compare my ratings and my calguns status.. read the most recent one from a transaction yesterday.. (thanks Jared btw)

one of the reasons I delete my posts after I'm through reading the thread is the fact I do not want to be too closely associated as a "calgunner" due to so many idiotic comments like I've read in this thread alone.. they are still calgunners by internet standards whether they meet the personal standards the majority of us would like to hold..

West coast
04-30-2011, 7:39 PM
FAIL!!!! Call him out

Ub3rDorK
04-30-2011, 7:45 PM
meh, it does suck...but I feel lessons are learned every day

Kestryll
04-30-2011, 7:50 PM
A) If this doesn't get real civil real quick it's going to get removed.
You are NOT helping the OP by getting his thread shut down.

B) 'scorpionking' AKA joeyant, this is the third account of yours to be banned, bye-bye.

CharlesV
04-30-2011, 7:56 PM
PLS go thru the whole thread, check the pics that were posted by the SELLER, compare those to the pics from the BUYER. The OP bought the item based on this: pics and info from the seller that the item didn't have "idiot marks", and it was posted here on CGN, not a CL post.

Yes i did read all the posts before i posted and i agree the situation sucks but for a clean-up job (assuming the rest of the pistol is as-advertised) its not worth court or the headache to make this fuss IMHO. It can easily be said "well its not YOUR money, Charles," I know that, but lets be sensible. Ok he lied about marks, now what a firing squad?

Ok i'll prove what im saying. I will chip in $10 if everyone else reading will chip in $10 and lets see if we have enough to buy the buyer a nice cleanup job at a gunsmith and leave the wretched courts and everyones emotions alone:

1. Charles $10
2.
3.
4.

hornswaggled
04-30-2011, 8:10 PM
I just saw a non-****ed up Springfield GI 1911 at Discount Gun today for $700. This Calgunner got ripped off by straight up lies. And what is this "buyer beware"
bull**** people are spewing? If someone completely misrepresents a product, and you do as much due diligence as possible via the Intarwebs, how is this the consumer's fault? I guess in the eyes of some people, Internet sales should never occur and business should stop unless lawyers and written contracts are in place. Geez.

i<3HK
04-30-2011, 8:12 PM
Hope you get your money back, I would be beyond furious if this happened to me.

xmustanguyx
04-30-2011, 8:19 PM
Take some comfort in knowing you learned something here! I am still waiting on a flash hider I bought for 20 bucks on the 20th of April! So now I don't so feel so bad....BUT imagine if you ended up like some other fellas who Never received their product.

I feel for you though it still sucks.

Ub3rDorK
04-30-2011, 8:22 PM
id go by partial OP fault because if it were me...and i saw a post of a gun for sale and they look like 2 different photos taken at 2 different times without detailed close ups...ESPECIALLY if i didnt see it in person I would be weary regardless if it was a $100 gun or a $10,000 gun. No offer would have been sent before i saw good images....

ubet
04-30-2011, 8:41 PM
Op, no offense, for what you paid, you could have stuck $200 it and got a loaded. You probably over paid if the gun was new. Ive bought some stuff off forums (one remmy 5r). Two things I do, I read their posts to figure out what type of person they are, then for anything over $100, I CALL THEM and TALK to them personally.

The seller screwed you yes. People should be honest, but they arent, never have been and never will be. Its a pistol, if it shoots good and you like it, move on, if it doesnt you are free to sell it, but move on either way. Go shoot the son of a ***** and live with it, you probably wont get your money back, so you might as well enjoy it.

Mickey D
04-30-2011, 8:58 PM
get a rope............

Call a Mechanic! (aka C.Bronson) :43:

Onlyincali
04-30-2011, 9:34 PM
Charles.... Thank you very much, quite kind of you. I will pass on the offer though. I'm not hard up for money, I just don't like being screwed out of it. But again, thanks for the suggestion.

Killer Bee
04-30-2011, 9:40 PM
Onlyincali, I noticed Kes and Ivan both posted tonight in your thread..

have you exchanged PM's for their assistance?

and good luck.. hope you get satisfaction from the mischievous seller..

bombadillo
04-30-2011, 10:15 PM
You want basic info on how to work on this board buying and selling, look at my Itrader history. I've purchased a LOT in the last 4+ years here and haven't been burned yet. Whoever this guy is calling everyone newbs and names, blow him off. Just deal with upstanding people that don't try to make excuses for the crap they buy or sell.

If you post a picture of an item without an idiot mark on it, then sell it with a heinous idiot mark on it, you misrepresented the item in question either way you try and cut it. Sure it may be worth XXX dollars but in reality, that wasn't what he bought. He bought a pistol that was said to be in condition X when it was in condition Y; PERIOD! Anybody that says other than that is a crock.


I've said it before but I'll say it again, chalk up your losses and either flitz polish the gun and take out the scratches, or sell it and buy a kimber or otherwise that you like. Its a 700 gun even with scratches but I wouldn't want it for that just like the OP doesn't. As mentioned before, a truck that is dented in all over just runs the same but which one would you want. Anyway, good luck and if you need any help OP, let me know.

hi9mmpower
05-01-2011, 2:41 AM
yeah the op failed to mention it took him 1 week to get to the FFL to see the gun!!!!

that mark on the gun was not there when i shipped it out!!!! call your ffl out on that.

i dont see how after 1 week of it being at an ffl like you say and who knows wtf they did with it now you want me to take it back. thats like me buying a car from you and coming back 2 weeks later saying the motor is effd up and i want my money back.

i have sold two other guns on here with great results and no complaints. sorry but i believe your ffl is to blame here!

247Nino
05-01-2011, 3:49 AM
That is the worst idiot mark I have ever seen.

OP, have you spoken to your FFL about this?

hi9mmpower, do you have any other pictures of the gun before you sent it out? pictures with clear views of the slide?

247Nino
05-01-2011, 3:51 AM
you can actually see the scratch on the frame in these two shots

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n169/mrmikeman/springfield1911idiot1.jpg

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=92207&d=1301603177

gobi fish
05-01-2011, 5:36 AM
sadly to say its buyer beware. why would you ever give him full payment until you saw the gun first hand? Your lucky you got anything at all instead of just a rubber band gun! at least its metal, you can just pay someone to polish it out or just get it painted...

cineski
05-01-2011, 7:16 AM
The seller's photo looks photoshopped. You can see he start of the scratch at the top of the slide. Get the gun bead blasted. It'll look awesome. And yes, court will be a waist.

Sanderhawk
05-01-2011, 7:42 AM
I actually read this entire thread. IMO its just a couple of scratches. If the gun shoots good move on. If you use you gun your going to get scratches on it sooner or later. There are many people here giving you tips on how to take your scratches off your gun. Take the tips and clean your gun it will be fine.

tonelar
05-01-2011, 8:02 AM
The seller's photo looks photoshopped. You can see he start of the scratch at the top of the slide. Get the gun bead blasted. It'll look awesome. And yes, court will be a waist.
in the "1911" pic from the ad, you can see the mark at the edge of the trigger (so its pretty obvious who is being dishonest)
as he continues to deny it (and tries to blame it on your ffl) just bad itrader rate him and be done with it
As far as the fr marks go; polish that springer til it looks like the autos
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-_0RnUV52H1s/TZQdP9eLysI/AAAAAAAAAB0/rN_Evq4Rbm0/s1600/pulp-fiction.jpg
Jules and Vincent carry in Pulp Fiction.

hi9mmpower
05-01-2011, 8:09 AM
im not getting in to a pissing match on here, sorry but that big***** scratch was not there. this is the final post im posting in this thread!
and like said, with it sitting in an ffl shop for a week, how do i or even the buyer know what the hell or who the hell was effing with the gun.

w55
05-01-2011, 8:22 AM
Scratches are a big deal to some. I would be pissed also. I have a 586 from 1982 that is almost perfect still. Its called pride of ownership. Even my "cheap" guns I dont ever abuse or put them in a spot to get dinged up.

Its not ok to mis represent a sale. I have never had a bad purchase on this board and several were sight unseen.

And it is sad to see alot of its no biggie posts by new members.

PatriotnMore
05-01-2011, 8:48 AM
im not getting in to a pissing match on here, sorry but that big***** scratch was not there. this is the final post im posting in this thread!
and like said, with it sitting in an ffl shop for a week, how do i or even the buyer know what the hell or who the hell was effing with the gun.


Putting the buyer between the FFL and you is wrong. I would give the FFL the doubt first, if they sell gun, they would know how to take apart a 1911, without scratching it.

I know you won't, but if it was me, I would take it back. If it was such a great deal, you should have no problem re-selling it. The fact that you are putting up such a stink without any sympathy, and a, I am sorry but that scratches were not there when shipped, makes me fee alll the more suspicious, the scratches were there, before shipping.

FourLoko
05-01-2011, 8:48 AM
Why is it that all the posts like this one are from Junior Members?

We hold ourselves to a MUCH higher standard here fellas. Get used to it if you want to fit in.

The idea that a Calguns member would do this is sickening. We might argue over silly crap once in a while, but we do not screw each other over.

It can't be that MUCH higher.

I have over 65 prior transactions on a computer tech forum and have bought and sold on Ebay. No issues since 2002. It is nice to be comfortable buying and selling on a particular forum but you still have to be smart about it.

Newer member, lower post count, doesn't take long to look through his previous posts to see what he's been doing. Would have been an easy catch.

glock7
05-01-2011, 9:16 AM
id go by partial OP fault because if it were me...and i saw a post of a gun for sale and they look like 2 different photos taken at 2 different times without detailed close ups...ESPECIALLY if i didnt see it in person I would be weary regardless if it was a $100 gun or a $10,000 gun. No offer would have been sent before i saw good images....

How is one to know if the actual images were before or after? Here on calguns we take it on the sellers word. Buyer beware, yes but does honesty actually not exist anymore?

Eat Dirt
05-01-2011, 9:23 AM
Can't belive this thread is STILL going !!

glock7
05-01-2011, 9:24 AM
Originally Posted by cineski
The seller's photo looks photoshopped. You can see he start of the scratch at the top of the slide. Get the gun bead blasted. It'll look awesome. And yes, court will be a waist.
in the "1911" pic from the ad, you can see the mark at the edge of the trigger (so its pretty obvious who is being dishonest)
as he continues to deny it (and tries to blame it on your ffl) just bad itrader rate him and be done with it
As far as the fr marks go; polish that springer til it looks like the autos

Jules and Vincent carry in Pulp Fiction.

^I like that idea...le grande royale!

tonelar
05-01-2011, 9:51 AM
...le grande royale!
^ exactly haha

In fact if the OP gets it mirror polished (professionally) and still doesn't like it.
I'd be willing to buy this springer.

Onlyincali
05-01-2011, 12:45 PM
im not getting in to a pissing match on here, sorry but that big***** scratch was not there. this is the final post im posting in this thread!
and like said, with it sitting in an ffl shop for a week, how do i or even the buyer know what the hell or who the hell was effing with the gun.


1. The FFL shop is a ONE MAN, HIGHLY RESPECTED storefront FFL. No one is in his shop to "mess" with guns, yet alone dissasemble and re-assemble tihs prized possession blindfoled, 10 times(likely how many times this gun was assembled in a screwed up mannor guaging by the scratches) He is such a highly respected FFL that he is always MONTHS backed up with work-orders. He has been in this business before you and I were born likely.

2. The only reason the gun had to sit at the FFL for a while was because you lied about shipping it on time. (I didn't feel the need to call you out on that yet...but you insisted)... You said the gun shipped on the 9th. In fact, the gun was shipped on the 11th, arriving at my FFL on the 13th(two days after it was supposed to and two days after I left town on business).

3. I also find it odd that you wouldn't reply to my messages until I pm'd you a link to this thread, and then all of a sudden you appear.

Either way, thanks for taking the time to reply and show your true colors.

707electrician
05-01-2011, 1:34 PM
you can actually see the scratch on the frame in these two shots

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n169/mrmikeman/springfield1911idiot1.jpg

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=92207&d=1301603177

Yep. You can see the marks in those photos, so clearly the seller lied and is continuing to lie

626Tony
05-01-2011, 1:36 PM
Low class and uncool. Please contact me for further review. If you wish to pursue it.

Ivan

Hear Hear!

707electrician
05-01-2011, 1:38 PM
Why hasn't the seller gotten any negative feedback yet?

626Tony
05-01-2011, 1:39 PM
Yes i did read all the posts before i posted and i agree the situation sucks but for a clean-up job (assuming the rest of the pistol is as-advertised) its not worth court or the headache to make this fuss IMHO. It can easily be said "well its not YOUR money, Charles," I know that, but lets be sensible. Ok he lied about marks, now what a firing squad?

Ok i'll prove what im saying. I will chip in $10 if everyone else reading will chip in $10 and lets see if we have enough to buy the buyer a nice cleanup job at a gunsmith and leave the wretched courts and everyones emotions alone:

1. Charles $10
2.
3.
4.

count me in for $10

kel-tec-innovations
05-01-2011, 1:58 PM
Lesson learned. I need to see the items before purchasing. Now you learned your mistake here is what you can do.
http://steelwoolstoreok.co.cc/images/518N69vOkcL._SL160_.jpg
Use this and polishes your pistol back to normal.


OR my favorite thing to do.
DURACOAT IT!!!!!

I buy scratched up or used guns, Dura coat fixes all the visual apperance

Onlyincali
05-01-2011, 2:18 PM
I am literally getting requests for my paypal so people can donate 10 bucks to the cause. I will not take any donations as this is partially my fault for not investigating more and I'm not hurting for $. I would like to say thanks for the offers and point out that people like this are what make this forum so awesome. Thanks guys. Awaiting mod reviews as well

ivanimal
05-01-2011, 2:33 PM
I am closing this thread till it is reviewed properly and both parties have given me their sides.