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View Full Version : Questions regarding carbon fiber receivers for the AR 15


SVT_Fox
11-23-2006, 7:49 PM
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=60905519

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=61152721

I do think the brand is vulcan arms....

are these good products? or Will the break and crack with a decent amount of use?

now that the AK is done, Im hungry for another project!

-Marcel

SemiAutoSam
11-23-2006, 7:59 PM
TO the best of my knowledge Vulcan arms DID NOT make carbon fiber lower receivers.

However Bushmaster did make a rifle called the carbon 15 using a carbon fiber upper and lower receiver.

Write and ask the seller for a better quality pic so you can read the MFG information.

OH and ask for a pic of the actual receiver you are buying not a generic pic.

SVT_Fox
11-23-2006, 8:14 PM
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=61111177
^^
well Im pretty sure they do make lowers....

NeoWeird
11-23-2006, 8:58 PM
It's actually a Carbon Fiber/Aramid mixture and I have only heard of problems with them. I have heard of at least three different people breaking the ears off the trigger guard while installing everything, and when I ordered my REAL Carbon Fiber lower that Bushmaster made the FFL I was using warned me that several of his customers broke their ears also, two even at his shop.

Avoid Vulcan unless it's your absolute only option.

Go to Coldwarshooters and get a Bushmaster CF lower. If you don't own a real aluminum AR lower than get one first. Once you have money to play with, then get a CF lower, but do it right and get a Bushmaster. CWS's link is at the top of each Calgun's page as they are a sponsor, as is Tenpercentfirearms who would probably also be able to get you a Bushmaster CF lower if you asked.

SVT_Fox
11-23-2006, 9:02 PM
yes the bushmaster does look nice. around 800 for the whole gun. I will end up getting alluminum for sure. now who can point me in the direction of the cheepest lower kit? Ive seen them on gun broker for around 250ish..

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=60981286

NeoWeird
11-23-2006, 9:27 PM
yes the bushmaster does look nice. around 800 for the whole gun. I will end up getting alluminum for sure. now who can point me in the direction of the cheepest lower kit? Ive seen them on gun broker for around 250ish..

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=60981286

Actually the CF receivers from Bushmaster are only like $50-100 over the price of regular receivers. Same with the upper. So for $100-200 bucks more you get a CF rifle. As for lower parts, contact CWS or 10%. Either way you will be getting good deals, getitng it right away (you can even get them together with the receiver so you are ready to go on pick up day and save on shipping), and to top it all off you will be supporting local businesses who support us and the OLL movement.

So you can scout prices for a week, deal with a dozen people, pay extra fees, cut the legs out of the business men and women here in California that support us and save some money (although not much in most cases) or you can make a single phone call and have it taken care of all at once and help suport the local guys and gals who get to feed their families when you support them.

It's your call, but it's an easy one for me.

SVT_Fox
11-23-2006, 9:35 PM
DUDE!!!! ill buy from california i Promise~!

five.five-six
11-23-2006, 9:42 PM
DUDE!!!! ill buy from california i Promise~!
buy the rra lpk with the national match 2stage trigger, I think it is about $80 more but worth every penny. or you an do it later and the triger is $120

blkA4alb
11-23-2006, 10:23 PM
Guys, its not carbon fiber. Its a carbon composite.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_fiber

Josh
11-23-2006, 10:27 PM
it is carbon fiber just not in woven form.

Small strands of carbon fiber mixed into some type of plastic.

five.five-six
11-24-2006, 3:50 AM
and you only save a few ounces

DV8
11-24-2006, 7:23 AM
DO NOT BUY THE CARBON FIBER UPPER! I tried one as an experiment a long time ago and the barrel nut stripped the threads even after I was taking it real easy.

Other folks have reported the notch that the charging handle engages wears out easily and an incident or two of the rear takedown pin hole breaking.

I was told that one I bought was indeed vulcan and that while bushmaster actually designed their carbon composite uppers correctly (stressed areas were built up accordingly), the vulcan ones were basically a plastic copy of an actual upper.

Blackgun
11-24-2006, 8:15 AM
You should find a Carbon 15 and shoot it. I have Carbon-15 Type 97 (Professional Ordinance) and you have a large amount of felt recoil due to the very light weight. Just my opinion.

C.G.
11-24-2006, 5:20 PM
it is carbon fiber just not in woven form.

Small strands of carbon fiber mixed into some type of plastic.

Exactly. The ratio is also very important and if if is off a little, you might end up with a brittle lower. Personally, I would stay away from them at this time unless you have money to burn.

B.J.F.
11-28-2006, 8:44 PM
Neo, Ive built over 50 Vulcan v15 "carbon" receivers at my work Bright Spot, i have not broken any of them, vulcans issue wasnt vulcans at all, it was who they sub-contracted out the builds to that broke them using presses, the key is a lil lube on the trigger gaurd roll pin, slightly tapering the starting end of the pin so it goes in smoothly then having a solid place for the "ears"
to rest on, then make sure before you start pounding the pin in, that you hold the gaurd it self in position

Got Stuff?
11-29-2006, 4:50 PM
I have some Vulcan V-15 carbon lowers as well and have had no problems with them. I would say they weigh almost half of a what a forged lower weighs. I don't think I would call them the "Bentley" of the AR world but they serve their purpose well. You can beat the cost to performance ratio.

One thing I noticed is that the take down pins don't seem to move as freely as I would like.....maybe a little wear and/or lube would help. No matter because I used the Vulcans for my gripless builds anyway.

...Robert...

chiefcrash
11-29-2006, 9:08 PM
i got a bushie Carbon-15 TLC. i've put at least 1500 rounds through it without one single problem. YMMV

hoffmang
11-29-2006, 9:10 PM
Chief,

How did you go about building/buying your Bushy Carbon? CWS?

I'm having a hard time finding what the other parts on the Carbon are. AKA - where would I buy a 16" M4gery Carbon upper? Is the collapsible stock different from the usual?

-Gene

chiefcrash
11-29-2006, 10:32 PM
Chief,

How did you go about building/buying your Bushy Carbon? CWS?

I'm having a hard time finding what the other parts on the Carbon are. AKA - where would I buy a 16" M4gery Carbon upper? Is the collapsible stock different from the usual?

-Gene

i bought complet bushy carbon Top-Loading Carbine from the local gun shop. (it's the kind with the sealed mag well and DOJ stamp of approval). The sealed magwell type are sold as complete rifles only (http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/Carbon15/azc-c15rm4ft.asp) and they are pricey. but it was worth it to me, so i wouldn't have to worry about legal gray area

as far as building your own, bushmaster has carbon 15 barreled uppers available in their catalog (http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/request.asp). They come in flat top ($605 complete, $455 minus bolt, carrier, and charging handle) and "Model 4" which has a raised picatinny rail and integrated rear sight (add $20 from flat top). They're 16" M4 profile chromed barrels with izzy compensator, carbine length hand guards, standard front sight.

they also have stripped uppers ($150) if you'd rather have that.

other than the carbon fiber upper and lower, all the other parts like the stock, lpk, barrel, etc are standard (i wanna say mil-spec, but don't quote me on it)

they do NOT make a carbon fiber A2 upper or carbon fiber detachable carry handle. you can put a normal alluminum one on, but it might look a little funny. my rifle came with one of these: http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/bmas/yhm-9440.asp they work pretty well

hope that was enough info for ya. and now time for a pic (cause i'm sure someone will complain)
http://pics.livejournal.com/evilgoddude/pic/0000544c
I named her Delilah...


edit: i swear, i don't work for bushmaster. but i should probably get something for all this great advertising...

hoffmang
11-30-2006, 1:20 AM
There is no grey here - only black and white :p

Seriously however, that's exactly what I was looking for. I couldn't find just the Carbon uppers on Bushmaster's site so I will look harder. Also, there is a catalog floating around at my office in one of my employee's cubes.

I think I'm going to go with the stripped lower, a bushy lpk, and a stripped upper. Technical Ted put me on to an interesting barrel and its about time for me to build an upper or two.

I want one carbon build for my boat (salt can't corrode Carbon Fiber) and one for the really light effect at home.

-Gene

C.G.
11-30-2006, 9:03 AM
I want one carbon build for my boat (salt can't corrode Carbon Fiber) and one for the really light effect at home.

-Gene

Gene,
you may want to think over this one. Carbon fiber is very conductive and as such is also prone to electrolysis when there are dissimilar materials, such as carbon fiber and steel, or carbon fiber and aluminium. This is what happens unless everything is isolated:

http://www.sailmontereybay.com/photos/carbelectro.jpg

That used to be a mast, before electrolysis go to it. Carbon fiber lower is the last thing you want on your boat.

Paratus et Vigilans
11-30-2006, 11:41 AM
There is no grey here - only black and white :p

Seriously however, that's exactly what I was looking for. I couldn't find just the Carbon uppers on Bushmaster's site so I will look harder. Also, there is a catalog floating around at my office in one of my employee's cubes.

I think I'm going to go with the stripped lower, a bushy lpk, and a stripped upper. Technical Ted put me on to an interesting barrel and its about time for me to build an upper or two.

I want one carbon build for my boat (salt can't corrode Carbon Fiber) and one for the really light effect at home.

-Gene

Gene,

When you go to order your carbon fiber upper from BM, be sure to tell the folks at BM how you have your lower set up, because they have two kinds of bolt carriers in their uppers, one short and one standard length. If you're building a standard M4gery lower with a 6 position buttstock or something similar, then you need to specify that you need the longer, standard size bolt carrier, not the shorty they put in their Type 21 and Type 97 builds. I found out the hard way, and am waiting on the replacement longer bolt carrier right now. Also, the barrel choices to go with a carbon fiber upper are limited due, they told me, to the way the barrel nut fits to the upper in the carbon fiber receivers. So. . . you may not be able to put a non-BM barrel in that upper - better check before you order!!!

I started out (pre-Wes) with the BM Carbon-15 FTC, and then through Wes got into the Stags, and then I got creative with the BM and got a "regular" BM carbon fiber open magwell lower from Wes, through CWS, and built it up as an alternative lower for the upper of the FTC so when I go to Vegas I can use detachable mags in it. Then I decided that since I had an "extra" lower sitting around all naked on top, it would be fun to do something different with it, so I ordered from BM another carbon firber upper with a SS fluted 16" barrel with a carbon fiber oval shaped forend and a Y-comp on the end of it. Haven't shot it yet, but love the look and feel of it - and it weighs next to nothing!

BTW, yes, you do get a little more recoil out of the CF rifles due to the reduced weight of the rifle, but nothing that has bothered me - though I'm pretty big and it takes a lot of energy to jostle me around.

FWIW, I'm glad I have the CF BM's in my inventory. They'e different, they're fun, and hey, can you possibly have too many black rifles??? :)

chiefcrash
11-30-2006, 2:18 PM
BTW, yes, you do get a little more recoil out of the CF rifles due to the reduced weight of the rifle, but nothing that has bothered me - though I'm pretty big and it takes a lot of energy to jostle me around.


i've never really noticed any extra recoil. but i too am a pretty big guy...

i can double-tap with it without effort