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Renored
11-23-2006, 7:32 PM
New here. Been reading for awhile. Really appreciate a Forum for Cail. owners. My question is. I have a Enterprise receiver, registered in 2000 as a AW. What configuration can I build this rifle in? 10 round fixed mag? Detacible mag? Pistol grip? Para folding stock?
I thought I had this figured out but, the more I read & reseach the muddier the waters become. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank You, Keith

rssslvr
11-23-2006, 7:34 PM
If it was registered as an AW then you can build it any way you like.You lucky dog.

FatKatMatt
11-23-2006, 7:34 PM
Dude, if it's a registered receiver the sky is the limit. detachable mags, pistol grips, flash hiders, folding stocks, all the evil features.

If you have an unregistered rig, you can either go fixed mag with any and all of the evil features, or you can go with detachable mags and none of the evil features.

But since you have a registered AW, none of this stuff applies to you. You just have to make sure your FAL is longer than the legal limit for semi-auto's, which is 30 inches.

Hope I helped.

Renored
11-23-2006, 7:38 PM
Man! You guys are quick on the draw.
How about my Century Sporter? Can I then configure it anyway I want. It's registered too.

FatKatMatt
11-23-2006, 7:40 PM
You can configure it in any way if it's registered as long as it isn't shorter than 30 inches (the legal limit for a semi)

Renored
11-23-2006, 7:43 PM
Don't want to be redundant,....but,......How about my Bushmaster Lower?
Am I safe to belive that any registered AW is free to be free?

FatKatMatt
11-23-2006, 7:57 PM
Yes, any registered assault weapons can have all the evil features as long as it is longer than 30". ANY ASSAULT WEAPON OF ANY TYPE. There, I think I made myself clear, hope I helped you out. Please note that if you have registered pistols or shotguns some things change.

Renored
11-23-2006, 8:09 PM
FatKatMatt, Yes, you made yourself very clear. I want to thank you and the others that replied so quick. Keith

rssslvr
11-23-2006, 8:35 PM
I am really starting not too like you :p J/K

NeoWeird
11-23-2006, 8:49 PM
First, just so you know the 30" is a California law that applies to NON-ASSAULT WEAPONS. You have a registered assault weapon so as long as you follow federal law you are alright. The 30" law does NOT apply to your registered rifles, but would apply to any rifles you own that are not registered.

Second, the way the state's law works is that since you have firearms registered as assault weapons, then they ARE assault weapons (even if not in assault weapon configurations). So adding anything that would make them an assault weapon doesn't make them more of an assault weapon, because the state already knows you have them as assault weapons (wow redundancy!). So if you had 30 receivers/rifles that you registered as assault weapons with the state of California, then you can do anything you want with them as long as it complys with Federal law (the biggest concerns for you will be length laws of 16" barrel and 26" overall length, and since your firearms, particularly the FAL variants, will have imported parts you will need to follow 922r which restricts the number of imported parts in your rifle; use US made parts to avoid confussion/problems if you are unsure what is US made and what is foreign).

A lot of older folks who didn't follow the laws closely can get confused with this because during the Federal Assault Weapon Ban the ATF had ruled that a firearm HAD to be in assault weapon configuration at the time of the ban in order to be eligible for assault weapon status; simply owning the receiver wasn't enough. In California though, if it was registered then it doesn't matter. It's an assault weapon and you can do with it as you please.

PS. Just sign a blank order form and send it in to several places because I have a feeling your credit cards are going to be hurting and your weapons are going to get some nice toys. Seriously, Enjoy.

NeoWeird
11-23-2006, 8:53 PM
Just to make myself a little more cleer, this is the portion of code that defines AWs by characteristic:

12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.
(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
(3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.

So yes, if you had a semiautomatic centerfire rifle (like a Mini-14, SKS, AR-15, etc) that had an overall length less than 30" than you would have an assault weapon.

ETA: Again, if I didn't make myself clear, those rules do NOT apply to your registered weapons but DO apply to any rifles that are NOT registered. Feel free to break ALL of those rules on your registered rifles and you will still be perfectly legal.

Your weapons are already registered as assault weapons. So break that rule all you want. Again, it still MUST be 26" or longer overall and have a barrel of 16" or longer unless it is registered as a Short Barreled Rifle with the ATF.

Renored
11-23-2006, 9:00 PM
Thank you NeoWeird.

On another note, if I have offened anyone, I apologize. It was not my intention. My "thanks" were sincere.

Keith

rssslvr
11-23-2006, 9:03 PM
So what are you going to build?We need details and pics:)

wilit
11-23-2006, 9:14 PM
First, just so you know the 30" is a California law that applies to NON-ASSAULT WEAPONS. You have a registered assault weapon so as long as you follow federal law you are alright. The 30" law does NOT apply to your registered rifles, but would apply to any rifles you own that are not registered.


This brings up an interesting question in my mind [thread hijack]. So let's just say the DOJ lists our OLL receivers in two weeks :D That would remove the 30" requirement, and leave us with the Federal 26" requirement. Does that mean we could then file for a federal short barreled rifle permit and tax stamp? Would be nice to have a Krink in CA. :eek: [/thread hijack]

NeoWeird
11-23-2006, 9:21 PM
This brings up an interesting question in my mind [thread hijack]. So let's just say the DOJ lists our OLL receivers in two weeks :D That would remove the 30" requirement, and leave us with the Federal 26" requirement. Does that mean we could then file for a federal short barreled rifle permit and tax stamp? Would be nice to have a Krink in CA. :eek: [/thread hijack]

You might still have to get an SBR permit, although I am not sure if that would apply since the reigstration already permits you to own an AW which, by their definition, would include SBRs (what I am saying is the SBR permit might allow for SBR Mini-14s not in any other AW configuration). Of course you would still have to get your local Sheriff to sign off on the form and pay all the tax stamps, which probably wouldn't happen even if it was legal.

It's worth a shot to someone in the right place.

Of course you could always just look into it further for Rimfire rifles and just apply for the SBR permit (but as I understand it those only really get issued to movie studios and the likes).

wilit
11-23-2006, 9:23 PM
You might still have to get an SBR permit, although I am not sure if that would apply since the reigstration already permits you to own an AW which, by their definition, would include SBRs (what I am saying is the SBR permit might allow for SBR Mini-14s not in any other AW configuration). Of course you would still have to get your local Sheriff to sign off on the form and pay all the tax stamps, which probably wouldn't happen even if it was legal.

It's worth a shot to someone in the right place.

Of course you could always just look into it further for Rimfire rifles and just apply for the SBR permit (but as I understand it those only really get issued to movie studios and the likes).

I was under the impression the SBR permit applied to anything under 26" regardless of AW, semi-auto, bolt action, or rimfire.

blkA4alb
11-23-2006, 9:49 PM
Second, the way the state's law works is that since you have firearms registered as assault weapons, then they ARE assault weapons (even if not in assault weapon configurations).
Not quite Neoweird, if you have a SB23 registered AW and you remove the offending features. You can treat it as a normal rifle (without the AW transportation requirements.) This still allows you to put the features back on it however.

blkA4alb
11-23-2006, 9:50 PM
But since you have a registered AW, none of this stuff applies to you. You just have to make sure your FAL is longer than the legal limit for semi-auto's, which is 30 inches.
The 30" limit does not apply to registered AWs.

blkA4alb
11-23-2006, 9:53 PM
You might still have to get an SBR permit, although I am not sure if that would apply since the reigstration already permits you to own an AW which, by their definition, would include SBRs (what I am saying is the SBR permit might allow for SBR Mini-14s not in any other AW configuration). Of course you would still have to get your local Sheriff to sign off on the form and pay all the tax stamps, which probably wouldn't happen even if it was legal.
Can you show me that by their definition an AW registration include SBRs?

blkA4alb
11-23-2006, 10:04 PM
If you have an unregistered rig, you can either go fixed mag with two of the evil features, or you can go with detachable mags and none of the evil features.

Nope, with a fixed magazine you can have any of the evil features you want, not just two.

NeoWeird
11-23-2006, 10:04 PM
Can you show me that by their definition an AW registration include SBRs?

Well seeing as SBRs are restricted to ownership in California because they are assault weapons, it would seem (at least to me) that if you were legally allowed to own assault weapons, or if a firearm was registered as an assault weapon, than it would be legal to convert said firearm(s) to SBR(s) assuming all other laws, especially federal, were followed.

The only other mention that I can find about SBRs is in 12020 "Unlawful Carrying and Possession" where it outlines what items are illegal to own, like switch blades, zip guns, etc. This is why I said you might still need to get an SBR permit through the DOJ before you could actually go about getting the federal approval for an SBR.

It has already been discussed that it MIGHT be possible to get Federal approval for an NFA item, like an SBR, and simply NOT convert your weapon over to SBR status. It then remains legal in our state, but is legal to convert to SBR configuration outside the state. This of course still requires your local CLEO to sign off on and I have not heard of it happening ever in California. Not saying it won't or can't happen, I've just never heard of it.

blkA4alb
11-23-2006, 10:06 PM
Hmm, I don't know. I mean if its possible great, but I don't see that being possible the way I have read the laws.

Here is the law regarding SBR permits.

12095. (a) If it finds that it does not endanger the public safety, the Department of Justice may issue permits initially valid for a period of one year, and renewable annually thereafter, for the manufacture, possession, transportation, or sale of short-barreled shotguns or short-barreled rifles upon a showing that good cause exists for the issuance thereof to the applicant for the permit. No permit shall be issued to a person who is under 18 years of age. (b) Good cause, for the purposes of this section, shall be limited to only the following: (1) The permit is sought for the manufacture, possession, or use with blank cartridges, of a short-barreled rifle or short-barreled shotgun, solely as props for a motion picture, television, or video production or entertainment event. (2) The permit is sought for the manufacture of, exposing for sale, keeping for sale, sale of, importation or lending of short-barreled rifles or short-barreled shotguns to the entities listed in paragraph (1) of subdivision (b) of Section 12020 by persons who are licensed as dealers or manufacturers under the provisions of Chapter 53 (commencing with Section 5801) of Title 26 of the United States Code, as amended, and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.

TheMan
11-23-2006, 10:13 PM
Well seeing as SBRs are restricted to ownership in California because they are assault weapons,

Where are SBR's defined as assault weapons in CA law?

NeoWeird
11-23-2006, 10:25 PM
Where are SBR's defined as assault weapons in CA law?

Ok, so I jumped to the conclusion that Chapter 2.3 Article 1 Section 12276.1 Paragraph (a) sub-paragraph (3) refered to SBRs. Sorry.

Still, my point of registering a rifle as an SBR is still a valid point. It is still a possability in the state of California, no matter how remote, and my second point that the permit may not be needed if you simply register your rifle as an SBR with the ATF and do not convert it to an SBR in the state of California is equally as valid.

blkA4alb
11-23-2006, 10:40 PM
and my second point that the permit may not be needed if you simply register your rifle as an SBR with the ATF and do not convert it to an SBR in the state of California is equally as valid.
That would also mean that you couldn't posess the SBR parts in the state with your rifle either. Contructive posession would still apply.

NeoWeird
11-23-2006, 10:50 PM
Except California has no contructive posession laws, only ATF does, and since your rifle would be ok with the ATF, you could have your SBR upper whenever you want and all it would take is those same pins everyone uses to reload to swap uppers when you are out of sate.

blkA4alb
11-23-2006, 10:53 PM
Except California has no contructive posession laws, only ATF does, and since your rifle would be ok with the ATF, you could have your SBR upper whenever you want and all it would take is those same pins everyone uses to reload to swap uppers when you are out of sate.
You're right, so do you have something in the works to get a movie permit? :p

NeoWeird
11-23-2006, 11:20 PM
You're right, so do you have something in the works to get a movie permit? :p

Movie permit? I just need to go to Hollywood and let them rent one of my rifles for a day!

TheMan
11-24-2006, 12:58 AM
Except California has no contructive posession laws, only ATF does, and since your rifle would be ok with the ATF, you could have your SBR upper whenever you want and all it would take is those same pins everyone uses to reload to swap uppers when you are out of sate.

California DOES have constructive posession with respect to SBRs. Just not with respect to AWs.

NeoWeird
11-24-2006, 1:03 AM
California DOES have constructive posession with respect to SBRs. Just not with respect to AWs.

Care to quote where it states that? I'm not saying it's not true, I just haven't seen it. I know they have it for MGs, but I don't recall seeing it for SBRs/SBSs.

TheMan
11-24-2006, 1:25 AM
Care to quote where it states that? I'm not saying it's not true, I just haven't seen it. I know they have it for MGs, but I don't recall seeing it for SBRs/SBSs.

A genius posted about this several weeks ago:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=40991

Pthfndr
11-24-2006, 8:28 AM
New here. Been reading for awhile. Really appreciate a Forum for Cail. owners. My question is. I have a Enterprise receiver, registered in 2000 as a AW.

My first thought before telling you what you can do is, are you SURE it's actually registered?

By that I mean AFTER you purchased and took possession of your recievers did you get the seperate registration forms, personally fill them out, personally send them in to the CA DOJ, and personally receive the AW registration confirmation form back in the mail from the CA DOJ.

Or do you think they're registered because you filled out a yellow form at the place(s) where you purchased them?

Renored
11-24-2006, 9:30 AM
Yes I'm sure. I do have the AW registration confirmation form back in the mail from the CA DOJ. Thanks, Keith

Blacktail 8541
11-24-2006, 10:40 AM
Yes I'm sure. I do have the AW registration confirmation form back in the mail from the CA DOJ. Thanks, Keith

I was thinking of asking you the same question as it is often confused with the DROS registration. I am glad you were not confused. These recievers are a treasure to have. What took you so long to decide to build them?;)

Renored
11-24-2006, 11:36 AM
I was thinking of asking you the same question as it is often confused with the DROS registration. I am glad you were not confused. These recievers are a treasure to have. What took you so long to decide to build them?;)

Everytime I'd get ready to work on one I'd do my research as to configuration & get totally corn-fused. Traded off my STG kit for a S&W .45 Colt Mountian Gun. You know,...just life & work. So then, I just got a couple of kits over on the Falfilies. Whlie on the falfilies I found a link to this Forum. Man 'o' man I'm sure glad I did. I want to thank eveyone, again, for the fast responces. So now I'm really Pumped to get one of these going. I have a Para lower coming the first of the week, three kits to choose from and a warm gaarge to work in. Life is good! I'll post pictures as soon as I get started ( if anyone cares to see? ). Waiting turned out to be a blessing, as far as doing it right.
Keith

Renored
11-24-2006, 11:52 AM
One thing I can't wrap my melon around, I'm probably over-thinking it. One day I can only buy a Ugly thumbhole butted "sporter" & the next day ( because of registration ) I can put it back to the wat it left the factory. Any quick explanation?
keith

NeoWeird
11-24-2006, 1:27 PM
One thing I can't wrap my melon around, I'm probably over-thinking it. One day I can only buy a Ugly thumbhole butted "sporter" & the next day ( because of registration ) I can put it back to the wat it left the factory. Any quick explanation?
keith

Conflicts betwen the AWB (Federal law) and California law (state). During the AWB the ATF didn't restrict thumbhole stocks, so many firearms that used pistol grips and stocks converted over to a thumbhole stock to get by the new rules. The California laws were written to say that thumbhole stocks were just as evil as pistol grips. So while it was perfectly legal to purchase a thumhole stuck under the Federal AWB, it is NOT ok to purchase a thumbhole stock on a semi-auto centerfire rifle in California right now. If the thumbhole stock was registered with the CA DOJ as an assault weapon, and since the Federal AWB no longer exists, then it is perfectly legal to revert a thumbhole stock back to it's original pistol grip/stock configuration.

-hanko
11-24-2006, 2:12 PM
This brings up an interesting question in my mind [thread hijack]. So let's just say the DOJ lists our OLL receivers in two weeks :D That would remove the 30" requirement, and leave us with the Federal 26" requirement. Does that mean we could then file for a federal short barreled rifle permit and tax stamp? Would be nice to have a Krink in CA. :eek: [/thread hijack]
It's not an SBR until the barrel is less than 16". You need the tax stamp prior to cutting the barrel. You won't get one residing in the prk.

Prk law prohibits sbr's per se...a Krink is not possible in prk unless it's constructed as a pistol fro the git go...not at all Krinkov but as close as you'll get.:mad:

-hanko

Redchevyman
11-24-2006, 2:31 PM
I have a Enterprise receiver, registered in 2000 as a AW. What configuration can I build this rifle in?
As long as the receiver is registered in your name as a AW you can biuld it with all the evil features. If you bought the stripped receiver from someone after 2000 their AW registration will not apply to you.

Hunter
11-24-2006, 2:40 PM
Regardless of which FAL receiver you build up, you still fall into the USC 922(r) restrictions. Basically make sure you have less than 10 of the listed parts from overseas sources and you are good to go. There are enough USA made parts for the FALs out there today, so it shouldn't be a problem to find the ones you need.

Sailormilan2
11-24-2006, 2:41 PM
If a non AW weapon has a folding stock, does the minimum 30" refer to the folded length or the unfolded length??