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californa
04-27-2011, 7:02 PM
Hi calguns does any one have any experience with the DPM double recoil system for Glocks. I have a G19 and would like to reduce the recoil and I heard that changing to a double recoil spring is the best way to accomplish that.Its doesn't have to be that brand but thats the only one I know of does anyone have any. As always any advise is greatly appreciated.

The Cable Guy
04-27-2011, 7:04 PM
Looks really gimmicky. Proper shooting technique eliminates the use of any recoil reducing gadgets for pistols.

IPSICK
04-27-2011, 7:06 PM
Those recoil systems are more gimmick than anything else. Also changes the recoil impulse feel of the gun. Makes it harder to properly time the pistol. Try a non-captured steel guide rod and a lighter recoil spring.

l8apex
04-27-2011, 7:08 PM
Have one I received as a demo. It works but not as noticable as .40. Im running the stock after running the system for 1000+ rounds. If you are in LA or Orange county, I can let you run it for a bit.

USMC 82-86
04-27-2011, 7:43 PM
Best thing I can think of to reduce the recoil in your G19 is to take a airweight .357 and shoot a box of the good stuff through her. Next pick up the G19 and it should feel like just a little nudge. :)

Fishslayer
04-27-2011, 7:44 PM
Yeah. Anything to reduce the recoil of the mighty 9mm...:rolleyes:

Baconator
04-27-2011, 7:47 PM
Get a .22 conversion kit.

FourLoko
04-27-2011, 7:49 PM
Yeah. Anything to reduce the recoil of the mighty 9mm...:rolleyes:

Get a .22 conversion kit.

lulz

JayBeeJay
04-27-2011, 7:54 PM
Do some curls and dips for a week before a range day lol jk.

IrishPirate
04-27-2011, 7:59 PM
perhaps a lone wolf ported barrel???

+1 on working on your shooting technique. I can't really tell the difference between my .45 and my 9mm now that i learned how to shoot better.

Fishslayer
04-27-2011, 8:07 PM
perhaps a lone wolf ported barrel???

I've fired the compensated 19. Not a whole lot of difference.

+1 on working on your shooting technique. I can't really tell the difference between my .45 and my 9mm now that i learned how to shoot better.

You need moar powder in yer .45... :D

Sam
04-27-2011, 8:07 PM
Ever since I learned how to grip the gun like this my shooting ability has gone waay up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nm9uG5bPubw

Paradiddle
04-27-2011, 8:15 PM
I would look at reloading to a milder load rather then messing with the gun. My compeition load for 9mm is very soft shooting in my CZ75. Brianenos.com forum has a bunch of very soft loads for 9mm.

Q619
04-27-2011, 8:45 PM
Don't buy gadgets...buy ammo and a lane. Shoot your gun....you won't think twice about recoil once you get used to it. The Glock 19 is a pretty mild recoiling gun. Just takes practice to get used to controlling it. Buying different guide rods and springs is a waste of money on a Glock IMO. So is anything beyond better sights and a little trigger work (I put a set of 10-8's, did some polishing/stoning on the ignition components and put a dehorned extended vickers mag release on mine...it's perfect now).

You don't need to "upgrade" your pistol....just your skills. You'll get progressively better. It's a process ;) a FUN process :D

IPSICK
04-27-2011, 9:01 PM
Ever since I learned how to grip the gun like this my shooting ability has gone waay up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nm9uG5bPubw

I hope we're not attributing this grip to Travis Haley (Magpul). This was a grip developed by Rob Leatham and Brian Enos decades ago.

But yes, this grip is fantastic at recoil management.

XDRoX
04-27-2011, 9:32 PM
3.3gr of BE under 147gr bullet. Feels so soft you'll be amazed.

Sam
04-27-2011, 10:08 PM
I hope we're not attributing this grip to Travis Haley (Magpul).

Haha, no. Maybe this one for the old timers?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa50-plo48

scootle
04-27-2011, 10:28 PM
technique and familiarity with the pistol will do wonders for perceived recoil and control.

i'd be wary of mucking with the innards of a Glock too much unless you really understand what you are changing about the way it works. part of the reported reliability issues with the Gen4 Glocks is often attributed to their "new" dual-spring recoil system (all except the subcompacts).

if the recoil really does bother you, try practicing with a .380 or .22 to work up your technique. or even try a nice heavy, all-metal .38 special or .22 revolver to get the basics down pat. Glocks (and other polymer 9mm) can feel a bit snappy since they are fairly lightweight. e.g. my Ruger Mk III (.22LR) weighs more than my fully loaded Glock19 or M&P9. :)

m1aowner
04-27-2011, 10:32 PM
You don't need it. Shoot your gun as is. Don't go buying a bunch of after market gimmick crap you don't need. That money is better spent on ammo. The only thing you should be changing if you need to is your sights, or buying a holster for carrying.

After shooting a round, are you letting the trigger release to its full original position? If yes, don't do that. Shooting like that will make controlling recoil difficult because of over-travel with the trigger. Practice this, when the trigger is pulled, slowly release the trigger forward just enough until the trigger resets, you'll hear and feel a click when this happens. Then squeeze the trigger again and you'll see there's not much trigger travel anymore. When practicing at home, you'll have to pull the slide back just enough to reset the trigger. You'll get it in no time.

Paradiddle
04-27-2011, 10:37 PM
One more note - Winchester White Box ala Walmart is a really snappy round. The 115 grain bullet is light and that makes it snappy. I reload 124 grain JHP. Believe it or not the heavier the bullet the more of a "push" you get versus a snap. I hate shooting WWB - too much muzzle flip.

cali_armz
04-27-2011, 10:49 PM
Do some curls and dips for a week before a range day lol jk.

i think thats a good idea. the more time you spend lifting weights, the more accustomed youl be to the feeling of having large forces exerted on your hands.

i would think that doing heavy dumbell bench and incline would work the best because it more closely replicates the kind of feeling you might get from handgun recoil: large force pushing on the palm of your hand towards you

cali_armz
04-27-2011, 10:52 PM
One more note - Winchester White Box ala Walmart is a really snappy round. The 115 grain bullet is light and that makes it snappy. I reload 124 grain JHP. Believe it or not the heavier the bullet the more of a "push" you get versus a snap. I hate shooting WWB - too much muzzle flip.

are you sure it doesnt have more to do with the amount of powder you're putting in your reloads?

it seems intuitive that the heavier the round, the more recoil youd feel, assuming the amount of powder behind each is identical

IPSICK
04-27-2011, 11:09 PM
Haha, no. Maybe this one for the old timers?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa50-plo48

Yeah but will the 25 and unders watch it and not miss the Magpul tacticoolness?

IPSICK
04-27-2011, 11:15 PM
are you sure it doesnt have more to do with the amount of powder you're putting in your reloads?

it seems intuitive that the heavier the round, the more recoil youd feel, assuming the amount of powder behind each is identical

Intuitive but wrong. Less felt recoil with slower heavier bullets.

From Rob Leatham's site:

The noise from firing the gun can be a major contributor to the perception of recoil. A large factor in that “report” is the sound (or lack thereof) of the bullet traveling through the air. When the bullet goes supersonic, it creates a crack or very sharp pitched sound. When the bullet stays below the speed of sound this does not occur, making the report less noisy and giving the perception of less noise. This is however of lesser importance than the blast of gasses exiting the muzzle when the bullet leaves the barrel. The lower the pressure and volume of burning propellent that exits the barrel, the lower the gun’s recoil. The heavier the bullet, the lower the velocity needed to make the power factor and the lower the powder charge necessary to get that speed versus a lighter bullet. So trying to stay slow and quiet is another way to reduce recoil. This of course assumes a non-compensated gun. In this case, it’s an XD for USPSA Production class. So, what I am really trying to get is a low powder charge weight, of a fast burning powder. To do this and make power factor, I will need to use heavier bullets. A 115 grain bullet needs 1087 fps, which is close to the speed of sound. A 124 grainer needs only 1008 fps and, all other things being equal, will use less of the same powder to achieve the same power factor. A 147 needs only 851 fps and even less of that same powder to get there. So…. I want the heavier bullet if possible. Problem is when I slow it down ,that 147 shoots poorly! Which is why I will next try 124 grain bullets and compare results. (http://robleatham.com/blog/?p=102)

jshoebot
04-27-2011, 11:24 PM
Want to reduce the recoil on your G19? Try this: have your range buddy hold your purse so you can use both hands on the gun while firing. :rofl2:

cali_armz
04-27-2011, 11:28 PM
from what i can see, Rob Leatham is talking more about matching the power of a lighter faster round with a heavier round with less powder behind it.

i just look at this idea, and the main thing that sticks out is conservation of momentum.

(small mass)*(large velocity) = (large mass)*(smaller velocity)


i dont know, what do you think? am i missing something here?

cali_armz
04-27-2011, 11:30 PM
Want to reduce the recoil on your G19? Try this: have your range buddy hold your purse so you can use both hands on the gun while firing. :rofl2:


ehh, i still think the best thing to do is lift weights. if you can rep 100 lb dumbells on incline, then the recoil on a 9mm, or any other moderately sized caliber handgun will be completely manageable

9mmepiphany
04-27-2011, 11:35 PM
Haha, no. Maybe this one for the old timers?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa50-plo48
Still too young...even Todd Jarrett came after the Golden Age of Action Pistol Shooting.

Enos and Plaxco really set the Action Pistol world on it ear when they started shooting from the Isosceles stance with the thumbs forward grip...it was as big a thing as Jack Weaver introducing his stance and grip to that world. It was so different because it did away with the belief that you needed to hold a gun down in recoil to shoot quickly

Fishslayer
04-28-2011, 12:02 AM
3.3gr of BE under 147gr bullet. Feels so soft you'll be amazed.

Or go to Green Dot powder. A bit slower. In shorter barrels it can get a bit loud... ;)

IPSICK
04-28-2011, 12:06 AM
from what i can see, Rob Leatham is talking more about matching the power of a lighter faster round with a heavier round with less powder behind it.

i just look at this idea, and the main thing that sticks out is conservation of momentum.

(small mass)*(large velocity) = (large mass)*(smaller velocity)


i dont know, what do you think? am i missing something here?

Wouldn't force be a more appropriate consideration than momentum in this instance. The bigger heavier bullet would have less acceleration than the smaller faster bullet. Momentum is more appropriate for what happens after the bullet leaves the gun.

I couldn't find the Rob Leatham post I was really looking for but the key idea here is perceived recoil. With a smaller faster bullet the recoil impulse is a quick snap while the bigger slower bullet feels like a long push.

Voo
04-28-2011, 12:09 AM
For the springing on a G19, it's a gimmick.. As others have mentioned, the systems do nothing more than change the way it "feels".. They don't actually reduce the flip or "kick" of the gun...

Your best bet it to develop a system that handles the recoil.. ie Isoceles stance, forward thumb grip.. etc etc..

The next thing to do is to possibly reload with softer ammo. You can make anything kick hard or make anything soft. It's all with the amount of powder you're willing to use. Any bullet, light or heavy, can be made to feel like a beast or a .22 LR. Just that the amount of reliability changes the more you play around with this as lighter recoiling rounds tend to cycle poorly on the standard recoil spring. Change out the recoil spring and you've introduced another variable... Kind of like chasing your own proverbial tail.

For handgunning, working out really doesn't benefit you in the same sense. It's a definite plus to be fit, but I've yet to run into ANYONE, big or small, that can death grip the gun so that it doesn't move on them. Look at the top competitive shooters. They're not built like tanks. What they do have is a similar shooting style that allows the recoil to absorb through their arms and body, instead of just over gripping with their hands.. If you've seen the younger geneation of run n' gun guys, Tomasie, Sevigny, Michel- They're not overly muscular but yet they shoot ridiculously fast...

Your best bet is to manage the recoil through your stance and grip...

scootle
04-28-2011, 12:11 AM
I couldn't find the Rob Leatham post I was really looking for but the key idea here is perceived recoil. With a smaller faster bullet the recoil impulse is a quick snap while the bigger slower bullet feels like a long push.

Anyone who has shot a .45 alongside a 9mm will know exactly what this means. Push vs. snap is the best way to put it in text. Maybe pow vs. pop? Hehe.

cali_armz
04-28-2011, 12:11 AM
Wouldn't force be a more appropriate consideration than momentum in this instance. The bigger heavier bullet would have less acceleration than the smaller faster bullet. Momentum is more appropriate for what happens after the bullet leaves the gun.

I couldn't find the Rob Leatham post I was really looking for but the key idea here is perceived recoil. With a smaller faster bullet the recoil impulse is a quick snap while the bigger slower bullet feels like a long push.

we would definitely like to be able to get force and stress concentrations, but it seems like starting with an energy/momentum approach and then using that to get force would be much simpler.

either way though, they are both valid ways of approaching the problem

cali_armz
04-28-2011, 12:15 AM
Anyone who has shot a .45 alongside a 9mm will know exactly what this means. Push vs. snap is the best way to put it in text. Maybe pow vs. pop? Hehe.

haha, pow vs pop, thats funny man!!

i know exactly what you mean though. this is probably directly related to the amount of time the projectile spends in the barrel of the gun when a round is fired.

heavier round spends longer time in the barrel, so you feel a longer duration force compared to a lighter round, which results in a shorter duration force.

elSquid
04-28-2011, 12:19 AM
For handgunning, working out really doesn't benefit you in the same sense. It's a definite plus to be fit, but I've yet to run into ANYONE, big or small, that can death grip the gun so that it doesn't move on them. Look at the top competitive shooters. They're not built like tanks. What they do have is a similar shooting style that allows the recoil to absorb through their arms and body, instead of just over gripping with their hands.. If you've seen the younger geneation of run n' gun guys, Tomasie, Sevigny, Michel- They're not overly muscular but yet they shoot ridiculously fast...


That's a good segue to a POV video of Sevigny shooting a 9mm G17L...

DFGmX_HC87s

...pretty darn fast!

-- Michael

cali_armz
04-28-2011, 12:23 AM
For handgunning, working out really doesn't benefit you in the same sense. It's a definite plus to be fit, but I've yet to run into ANYONE, big or small, that can death grip the gun so that it doesn't move on them. Look at the top competitive shooters. They're not built like tanks. What they do have is a similar shooting style that allows the recoil to absorb through their arms and body, instead of just over gripping with their hands.. If you've seen the younger geneation of run n' gun guys, Tomasie, Sevigny, Michel- They're not overly muscular but yet they shoot ridiculously fast...



i didnt mean to imply that it was necessary to be a powerlifter to be able to handle a firearm, just that it might help a person become more accustomed to the feel of large recoil. thus aiding in the users comfort level

ELEVENTH HOUR
04-28-2011, 12:32 AM
Want to reduce the recoil on your G19? Try this: have your range buddy hold your purse so you can use both hands on the gun while firing. :rofl2:


LMAO..... The wifey at 5.6/135 pounds can handle my 1911's without any issues......:notworthy:

blakdawg
04-28-2011, 3:58 AM
For all we know, the OP has arthritis or some other physical limitation that makes the recoil of even a 9mm a problem. My cousin, a relatively young guy in his 40's, has rheumatoid arthritis which can cause great pain and difficulty doing anything with his hands. He's not a shooter but I imagine it might be tough for him to effectively manage recoil that would be insignificant to someone who didn't have his condition.

esartori
04-28-2011, 7:51 AM
Lifting weights will make lifting weights feel easier. Not necessarily shooting. The best thing for that is to shoot a lot and work on grip, stance, and trigger control

Ubermcoupe
04-28-2011, 8:07 AM
Yeah. Anything to reduce the recoil of the mighty 9mm...:rolleyes:

LOL for about 5 minutes straight. :D

OP: Other than the fundamentals others have suggested I would say lighter (as in less powder) reloads will get do the trick just fine, but you can only go so low before physics steps in to cause the cycling action to fail.

In all honesty, unless there is some other factor that you have not yet mentioned (only able to shoot with one arm, physical condition, lack of shooting experience, etc) I will question why you feel 9mm recoil is so strong? if still "new," I would suggest a pistol class with instructor presence/feedback + lots of trigger time to "break" you into the pistol. Best of luck! :)

Paradiddle
04-28-2011, 9:43 AM
are you sure it doesnt have more to do with the amount of powder you're putting in your reloads?

it seems intuitive that the heavier the round, the more recoil youd feel, assuming the amount of powder behind each is identical

Positive. Go on the compeition forums where the guys care about making power with soft shooting loads so they are faster. They almost to a man load a heavier bullet. Even in 45 there is more "snap" or muzzle slip with the 200 grain then the 230 grain which is always described as a "push".

I used to shoot WWB when I first started competing at Prado. Once I started reloading I went to a load of 231 and a 124 grain JCP bullseye bullet. I can't recall my grain load, but it makes minor power without issues and cylces the gun perfectly. It is SO much softer shooting with much quicker sight recovery then the WWB was.

Give it a try - it's interesting.

cali_armz
04-28-2011, 10:05 AM
Positive. Go on the compeition forums where the guys care about making power with soft shooting loads so they are faster. They almost to a man load a heavier bullet. Even in 45 there is more "snap" or muzzle slip with the 200 grain then the 230 grain which is always described as a "push".

I used to shoot WWB when I first started competing at Prado. Once I started reloading I went to a load of 231 and a 124 grain JCP bullseye bullet. I can't recall my grain load, but it makes minor power without issues and cylces the gun perfectly. It is SO much softer shooting with much quicker sight recovery then the WWB was.

Give it a try - it's interesting.

that is interesting man, il have to try it out. it seems like when i go to the range, i usually only use one type of ammunition. id like to try comparing light and heavy slugs in both 9mm and 45 side by side.

jermzzzzzzz
04-28-2011, 10:14 AM
Just keep shooting dude, you'll get used to it.

Fishslayer
04-28-2011, 1:21 PM
For all we know, the OP has arthritis or some other physical limitation that makes the recoil of even a 9mm a problem. My cousin, a relatively young guy in his 40's, has rheumatoid arthritis which can cause great pain and difficulty doing anything with his hands. He's not a shooter but I imagine it might be tough for him to effectively manage recoil that would be insignificant to someone who didn't have his condition.

Then maybe a heavier gun? Ruger P94 & Berreta M92 come to mind.

Quickdraw Mcgraw
04-28-2011, 1:41 PM
I think you need ta shoot a g23 with some snappy loads...then fire some 9mm an smile!
Seriously...grip an stance make a huge difference...also something after about 5000rds with all types of handguns an the 9mm will seem much tamer!

Course I'm one of those weight lifting guys who like to fire his .44mag with one hand!:King:

peter95
04-28-2011, 3:37 PM
Practice practice and practice..... You'll learn to love your recoil, specially when you get accurate with it.

cali_armz
04-28-2011, 4:49 PM
I think you need ta shoot a g23 with some snappy loads...then fire some 9mm an smile!
Seriously...grip an stance make a huge difference...also something after about 5000rds with all types of handguns an the 9mm will seem much tamer!

Course I'm one of those weight lifting guys who like to fire his .44mag with one hand!:King:

h*** yea man!! nothing quite like large caliber recoil. i think it feels good

locosway
04-28-2011, 4:50 PM
Hi calguns does any one have any experience with the DPM double recoil system for Glocks. I have a G19 and would like to reduce the recoil and I heard that changing to a double recoil spring is the best way to accomplish that.Its doesn't have to be that brand but thats the only one I know of does anyone have any. As always any advise is greatly appreciated.

Get some professional instruction and the G19 won't have much recoil at all. If it's really an issue, then look at a Glock 19c model.

tacticalcity
04-28-2011, 4:54 PM
Get some professional instruction and the G19 won't have much recoil at all.

+1

You would be surprised how little adjustments to your grip and stance make the recoil seem to go away. The more you shoot the less you feel it as well. Anticipating the recoil and jerking to counter it is very common with new or rusty shooters. A course will get you tuned up so you stop doing that.

Since you are in Sacramento you have ZERO excuse not to take a course. http://stonecobratactical.com/ is located right in your back yard. They offer very affordable high-end training that is not just educational, but a boat load of fun.

They have a BASIC HANDGUN COURSE in 2 days, if you hurry up and contact them you might be able to attend.

9mmepiphany
04-28-2011, 9:40 PM
Get some professional instruction and the G19 won't have much recoil at all. If it's really an issue, then look at a Glock 19c model.
You shouldn't have to go to a G19c

I had a client out shooting with her first handgun a G19 and took her from all over the paper to a small Post-It (2"x3") in a couple of hours...and we started with basic stance and grip...recoil management was never a problem

It really is about learning how to hold the gun correctly and pressing the trigger correctly. It can't be done on-line and not even via YouTube or DVD, it is about learning what correct feels like and being able to reproduce it on demand

locosway
04-28-2011, 9:52 PM
You shouldn't have to go to a G19c

I had a client out shooting with her first handgun a G19 and took her from all over the paper to a small Post-It (2"x3") in a couple of hours...and we started with basic stance and grip...recoil management was never a problem

It really is about learning how to hold the gun correctly and pressing the trigger correctly. It can't be done on-line and not even via YouTube or DVD, it is about learning what correct feels like and being able to reproduce it on demand

Yes, you "shouldn't" need a compensated pistol, but some people like them. My comment was more in line with them wanting something a little more tame, and not that they shouldn't be able to overcome a 9mm's recoil with instruction.

9mmepiphany
04-28-2011, 10:04 PM
I didn't mean that you were giving bad advice...I'm all in favor of cool toys too, I especially like Hydraported revolvers and 1911s

I was just concerned that the OP was looking for a hardware answer to a software problem

locosway
04-28-2011, 10:05 PM
I didn't mean that you were giving bad advice...I'm all in favor of cool toys too, I especially like Hydraported revolvers and 1911s

I was just concerned that the OP was looking for a hardware answer to a software problem

Aye, that's what it seems to be. Hopefully with the advice given they'll get some solid training and never look back!

Hell, I've used my 10mm in competition without any problems! :D

SoCalXD
04-28-2011, 11:16 PM
20 year G19 owner here. If you can find one, the (now discontinued) Hearts Recoil reducing recoil guide and spring replacement really softens ups the G19 with no loss of reliability (mercury & steel ball filled guide rod!) Short of that, a solid stainless guide rod with a spring dialed-in properly for your ammo needs would be noticeably better. You could also install one of those rubberized grip wraps that will soak up a bit of recoil. For combat ammo, try the non-+p short barreled Gold Dot from Speer. And as someone else suggested, look for the 124gr in a training round (but you'll pay for it at retail, because nothing beats the price of the 115gr bricks at Wally's mart!)

Good luck!

locosway
04-28-2011, 11:18 PM
20 year G19 owner here. If you can find one, the (now discontinued) Hearts Recoil reducing recoil guide and spring replacement really softens ups the G19 with no loss of reliability (mercury & steel ball filled guide rod!) Short of that, a solid stainless guide rod with a spring dialed-in properly for your needs would be noticeably better. You could also install one of those rubberized grip wraps that will soak up a bit of recoil. For combat ammo, try the non-+p short barreled Gold Dot from Speer. As someone else suggested, look for the 124gr in a training round.

Good luck!

They sell tungsten guide rods, but I'm really opposed to using parts that are not factory specs. Tungsten is no where near what the plastic guide rod is.

gobi fish
04-29-2011, 6:03 AM
you gotta man up, its not like its a .500sw or even a .44mag.

why not shoot the above a few times before shooting the 9mm and it will feel like a .22 or less. I agree with the above members which say hit the gym. If you can't handle a 9mm, you got problems even a gun can't fix! I mean a 9mm needs some recoil just to work the slide, what you might want is a crossbow or bow and arrow.