PDA

View Full Version : Accidental Discharge


emsp
04-25-2011, 6:30 PM
Have you ever had an accidental discharge? Just bought a 1911 and took it out to the range, trying to decock it the gun went off. I know this was my fault due to my unfamiliarity with the gun. It was pointed down range at the time(luckily) but has anyone ever had this problem? Or something similar happen?

ElvenSoul
04-25-2011, 6:34 PM
It happens..consider yourself lucky and learn from it.

MacDime
04-25-2011, 6:36 PM
jesus man im glad it was pointed down range. Thumb just slipped eh.

Coded-Dude
04-25-2011, 6:38 PM
mine has a skeleton hammer and i use two fingers so that won't happen(or is far less likely). glad it was a "safe" nd(pointed down range). lesson learned.

JayBeeJay
04-25-2011, 6:40 PM
Glad your ok. Finger off the trigger til your ready to shoot bruh!

clcolin81
04-25-2011, 6:40 PM
I've heard it said, never de-cock a loaded 1911. Guess that's why. Live and learn.

meaty-btz
04-25-2011, 6:41 PM
Glad your ok. Finger off the trigger til your ready to shoot bruh!

He was decocking, on 1911s that is a manual operation requiring trigger depression and a finger on the hammer to manually lower it.

That is why we LOVE decockers.....

titankeith
04-25-2011, 6:43 PM
I've heard it said, never de-cock a loaded 1911. Guess that's why. Live and learn.

EXACTLY what I was going to say. It's just not safe to de-cock a 1911 that has one in the chamber...you're asking for trouble.

PandaLuv
04-25-2011, 6:44 PM
wow!
I would practice decocking without a round in it for a while before starting doing this kind of crap. Fail!
Next time, just rack the slide before decocking it

ElvenSoul
04-25-2011, 6:45 PM
Allways point the gun away from in a safe direction when loading or unloading...this ain't the movies.

Voo
04-25-2011, 6:47 PM
Wow.. get some training.. RTFM and have someone show you how it works before you kill someone. I'm being serious. Trying to decock a 1911 says a lot about your lack of experience. What happened with you was NEGLIGENT, not ACCIDENTAL. You took it upon yourself to try and figure things out and as a result, you made the gun fire when you didnt' expect to. There is no way in the world the owner's manual told you that you should have done what you did.

Shooting has a dangerous learning curve. I've had to "stop" or "shout" at guys who've shot for years and years because they were about to do something ridiculously dangerous. It only takes one lapse in judgment for things to end badly.

The times I've had close calls, those were my fault. My fault = NEGLIGENT DISCHARGE. I almost shot a buddy. It was "THAT" close. Safety is to be taken seriously even if it's at the expense of your ego. Since that moment, I've never come close to putting anyone in danger (me included)

Rule # 1
Treat all guns as if they are loaded.

Rule # 2
Never point the gun at anything you do not want to destroy or kill.

Rule # 3
Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire.

Rule # 4
Be absolutely sure of your target, and what is behind it.

Have fun with your new 1911, but good lordie, be safe about it.

rogervzv
04-25-2011, 6:55 PM
EXACTLY what I was going to say. It's just not safe to de-cock a 1911 that has one in the chamber...you're asking for trouble.

That's for sure. Every 1911 I have used it was also unsafe to have a round in the chamber and the hammer down. No firing pin safety. Basically no point in decocking a loaded 1911.

emsp
04-25-2011, 6:55 PM
Picture of the hammer. I am unsure if it had to do with the grip safety. I havent had a problem in the past with other 1911's or revolvers. I do know I need to learn more about the weapon.

Full Clip
04-25-2011, 6:57 PM
An accidental discharge I can blame on the firearm: actual malfunction.
A negligent discharge is all my fault: mishandling, brainfart, total stupidity.
I have had two negligents in 20 years. Fortunately for me, they were just learning experiences as opposed to life-changing disasters.

beretta929mm
04-25-2011, 6:58 PM
There is a half cock notch. To decock it, lower the hammer to the half cock position first, then lower it all the way down. It is a two hand operation though. I alway wonder how come guys in movies can decock their 1911s one handed.

Coded-Dude
04-25-2011, 6:59 PM
That's for sure. Every 1911 I have used it was also unsafe to have a round in the chamber and the hammer down. No firing pin safety. Basically no point in decocking a loaded 1911.


huh? this is how 1911's are meant to be kept/carried. thats why there is a beaver tail safety as well as thumb safety. its just not smart to decock one while its loaded.

MacDime
04-25-2011, 7:01 PM
Allways point the gun away from in a safe direction when loading or unloading...this ain't the movies.

:confused:

rgs1975
04-25-2011, 7:03 PM
never de-cock a loaded 1911Words to live by.

HighLander51
04-25-2011, 7:03 PM
Just bought a 1911 and took it out to the range, trying to decock it the gun went off?

You don't DECOCK a 1911!

What did you think was going to happen? Hammer falls, 1911 goes bang.

It is completely obvious, even to a casual observer, that you don't understand the first thing about 1911's.

Sell your 1911, and get an AirSoft until you know how to run a gun.

G-forceJunkie
04-25-2011, 7:07 PM
That was no accident, you pulled the trigger, it went bang. Operator error and/or negligence is what happened here. Glad no body was hurt. Get training.

ElvenSoul
04-25-2011, 7:08 PM
Don't be such a** the guy learned his lesson....there are plenty out there who don't.

railroader
04-25-2011, 7:16 PM
The pistol is single action. Either leave it cocked and locked or drop the mag, rack the slide to get the round out of the chamber then point the gun down range and pull the trigger to drop the hammer.

PandaLuv
04-25-2011, 7:19 PM
Rule # 1
Treat all guns as if they are loaded.

Rule # 2
Never point the gun at anything you do not want to destroy or kill.

Rule # 3
Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire.

Rule # 4
Be absolutely sure of your target, and what is behind it.


That's what everyone who handles a gun should know this. I took some friends out to shoot with me. My chick friend almost blew my f*cking brains out. I told each and everyone those four major rules,many times. When it was her turn to shoot, she rested her finger on the trigger before she even started shooting ! I was like wtf? I yelled at her multiple times not to do that, I thought I got to her. After firing a couple of times, she got all excited and started screaming and WAVING THE GUN LEFT AND RUN WHILE THE BULLET IN THE CHAMBER, FINGER ON THE TRIGGER AND IN SINGLE ACTION ! She pointed the gun straight at my face and at by standing shooters.
I ducked and yelled " WHAT THE F*CK ARE YOU DOING?! FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER ! POINT THE GUN TOWARDS THE TARGET!!!!"
I was fcking pissed and scared as hell. I chewed her *** out afterwards, but I am not taking her to shoot ever again.
That's how people hurt people with guns accidentally by being retards.

jonzer77
04-25-2011, 7:21 PM
http://www.sightm1911.com/Care/1911_conditions.htm

Read that and you will good to go for now on with your new 1911.

rogervzv
04-25-2011, 7:22 PM
huh? this is how 1911's are meant to be kept/carried. thats why there is a beaver tail safety as well as thumb safety. its just not smart to decock one while its loaded.

Don't think so. Someone else feel free to correct me, but we were trained that Condition One is hammer cocked, slide safety on, one in the chamber. Never any reason to decock a 1911 and no safe way to do it once a round is chambered. I never saw or heard of anyone carrying with the hammer down. No firing pin safety in any 1911 with which I am familiar although maybe there are some what with all the flavors out there.

PandaLuv
04-25-2011, 7:23 PM
:confused:

They de-cock a loaded gun with one hand in movies when it's loaded

Coded-Dude
04-25-2011, 7:25 PM
I believe the beaver tail is the firing pin safety, so when its not depressed, even if the hammer drops, the gun should not discharge. but i could be wrong as well. I was under the impression that 1911's were to be cocked and locked.

Andy Taylor
04-25-2011, 7:25 PM
I know it has already been said but DO NOT DECOCK A 1911. Either it should be cocked and locked, or kept with an empty chamber util ready to fire.

glockman19
04-25-2011, 7:26 PM
$&it happens

DannyZRC
04-25-2011, 7:28 PM
Just bought a 1911 and took it out to the range, trying to decock it the gun went off?

You don't DECOCK a 1911!

What did you think was going to happen? Hammer falls, 1911 goes bang.

It is completely obvious, even to a casual observer, that you don't understand the first thing about 1911's.

Sell your 1911, and get an AirSoft until you know how to run a gun.

Plenty of folks put their 1911s into condition 2 for whatever reason.

I would agree with you that it's a bad idea, that condition 2 is better ignored, in favor of 1 or 3.

but still, too mean :p

rogervzv
04-25-2011, 7:28 PM
I know it has already been said but DO NOT DECOCK A 1911. Either it should be cocked and locked, or kept with an empty chamber util ready to fire.

This is how we did it in the Army. NEVER carried with the hammer down and a round in the chamber.

emsp
04-25-2011, 7:30 PM
Just bought a 1911 and took it out to the range, trying to decock it the gun went off?

You don't DECOCK a 1911!

What did you think was going to happen? Hammer falls, 1911 goes bang.

It is completely obvious, even to a casual observer, that you don't understand the first thing about 1911's.

Sell your 1911, and get an AirSoft until you know how to run a gun.

Does your mom still leave notes in your lunch box? just kidding, Im sure you have never made a mistake, ever. Next time I wont share, therefore never learning anything. I chose to share because I want to know what not to do next time.

G-forceJunkie
04-25-2011, 7:31 PM
Why are you assuming that? The poster did not ask what he did wrong. He did not ask how he can prevent if from happening again. He did not ask for training recomendations. He only asked if this has happend to others. The answer, sadly, is yes. I agree that people should not be berating him, but stupid mistakes and negligence are not to be taken lightly. Its dangerous and can give us all a bad name when this happens when not at a range. You know, "I was just cleaning my gun and it went off." Don't be such a** the guy learned his lesson....there are plenty out there who don't.

PandaLuv
04-25-2011, 7:32 PM
Does your mom still leave notes in your lunch box? just kidding, Im sure you have never made a mistake, ever. Next time I wont share, therefore never learning anything. I chose to share because I want to know what not to do next time.

did your mom buy the gun?
Listen to what people have to say, just a "mistake" might change a person's life forever.
Sharing and learning is fine, just listen to what more experience people have to say. Other wise, you can GTFO. Calguns people are here to help

MaHoTex
04-25-2011, 7:33 PM
EXACTLY what I was going to say. It's just not safe to de-cock a 1911 that has one in the chamber...you're asking for trouble.

Is it any different than my Ruger GP100 in regards to decocking?

Cato
04-25-2011, 7:37 PM
I've never had one and always found folks that claimed an accidental discharge to be lying. But I guess in your case it's possible. If you follow basic gun handling safety procedures the an accidental discharge will NEVER happen.

DannyZRC
04-25-2011, 7:38 PM
Is it any different than my Ruger GP100 in regards to decocking?

No, it isn't.

it can be argued that a 1911 gives you options other than manually decocking, and they should be exercised, but the actual act of decocking either firearm is identical.

G-forceJunkie
04-25-2011, 7:38 PM
yes, it is. First, the hammer is designed to be be more egronomic and a big beaver tail saftey is not in the way. Second, it has an internal hammer block. If you decock it the correct way ( Hold the hammer with your thumb, depress the trigger just enough to get the hammer moving THEN LET GO OF THE TRIGGER!!!) the hammer block moves in position as the hammer is being lowered. Even if it slipped, it wont fire. Is it any different than my Ruger GP100 in regards to decocking?

DannyZRC
04-25-2011, 7:40 PM
Also, insert standard rant here about how accidental discharge is the correct term, unless we're gonna go around calling things negligent automotive collisions, or negligent use of skis, or accuse children of negligent misuse of waste mechanisms.

didn't mean for it to happen = accident, get over it you delusional bastages. :p

DannyZRC
04-25-2011, 7:40 PM
yes, it is. First, the hammer is designed to be be more egronomic and a big beaver tail saftey is not in the way. Second, it has an internal hammer block. If you decock it the correct way ( Hold the hammer with your thumb, depress the trigger just enough to get the hammer moving THEN LET GO OF THE TRIGGER!!!) the hammer block moves in position as the hammer is being lowered. Even if it slipped, it wont fire.

plenty of revolvers have no transfer bar or similar safety mechanism analogous to a firing pin block.

G-forceJunkie
04-25-2011, 7:42 PM
We are talking about a GP100.plenty of revolvers have no transfer bar or similar safety mechanism analogous to a firing pin block.

G-forceJunkie
04-25-2011, 7:44 PM
I call BS. If I follow too close and rearend a car, thats not an accident. Accident's imply there was nothing I could do. I could have kept a proper distance. Stop blaming something else and calling it an "accident" when you do something wrong and bad things happen. Also, insert standard rant here about how accidental discharge is the correct term, unless we're gonna go around calling things negligent automotive collisions, or negligent use of skis, or accuse children of negligent misuse of waste mechanisms.

didn't mean for it to happen = accident, get over it you delusional bastages. :p

DannyZRC
04-25-2011, 7:46 PM
fair enough, a GP100 is definitely in possession of a transfer bar and is safer to decock than a 1911 without an FPB.

Though, plenty of 1911s out there with FPBs, and Plenty of revolvers without.

ElvenSoul
04-25-2011, 7:48 PM
Original CZ75 no western wimpy decocker.

rogervzv
04-25-2011, 7:49 PM
plenty of revolvers have no transfer bar or similar safety mechanism analogous to a firing pin block.

True, and the transfer bar was designed in order to make it safe to carry a revolver with the hammer down and a round in the immediate chamber in front of the hammer. Obviously it is unsafe to carry a revolver hammer-cocked in holster. :eek:

Cokebottle
04-25-2011, 7:50 PM
#1 - No such thing as an accidental discharge. This was a negligent discharge.

In the very few cases where the discharge is truly "accidental", it is due to a hardware failure.... but even that is likely preventable through proper care and maintenance.

#2 - To properly decock any gun that lacks a decocker, DON'T try to gently lower the hammer. That is an ND waiting to happen.
Put your thumb between the hammer and the firing pin. Pull the trigger. Release the trigger. Slowly move your thumb out while using your other hand to guide the hammer.

With the trigger released, most guns will not allow the hammer to fall past half-cocked, but even if it does, on most modern handguns, simply pushing the pin will not impact the primer. The pin is not long enough to go beyond flush on both ends of the action.


My question would be... WHY was the OP decocking a 1911? Why was the OP decocking a 1911 with one in the chamber? The 1911 was designed to be carried chambered, cocked, and on safe.

DannyZRC
04-25-2011, 7:50 PM
ac·ci·dent noun \ˈak-sə-dənt, -ˌdent; ˈaks-dənt\
Definition of ACCIDENT

1
a : an unforeseen and unplanned event or circumstance
b : lack of intention or necessity : chance <met by accident rather than by design>
2
a : an unfortunate event resulting especially from carelessness or ignorance
b : an unexpected and medically important bodily event especially when injurious <a cerebrovascular accident>
c : an unexpected happening causing loss or injury which is not due to any fault or misconduct on the part of the person injured but for which legal relief may be sought
d —used euphemistically to refer to an involuntary act or instance of urination or defecation
3
: a nonessential property or quality of an entity or circumstance <the accident of nationality>

Show me where it says that an accident has to be non-preventable.

In fact, if something is non-preventable, it's usually referred to as an "act of god" not an accident.

double check definition 2a.

hell, check your insurance. I'll wait right here.

sequoia_nomad
04-25-2011, 7:57 PM
I call BS. If I follow too close and rearend a car, thats not an accident. Accident's imply there was nothing I could do. I could have kept a proper distance. Stop blaming something else and calling it an "accident" when you do something wrong and bad things happen.

I agree totally. A vehicle accident would be hitting black ice and losing control, or an unexpected mechanical failure. However, an accident caused by exceeding the speed limit or driving intoxicated would clearly be due to negligence on the part of at least one party.

Handling a loaded firearm is a one person event. The person holding the firearm bears sole responsibility for its discharge. Any discharge of said firearm that was unintended is purely negligence. I don't see how difficult that is to comprehend, but this is of course California. No wonder we get such great politicians in office.

kazman
04-25-2011, 8:02 PM
Sheesh! Please don't ever try to decock a loaded 1911 again. Unload, triple check, then decock. I go to ranges too.

G-forceJunkie
04-25-2011, 8:08 PM
Semantics. I don't feel carelessness or ignorance are accidental. You choose to be careless. When dealing with machines, firearms in this case, you can choose to read the manual and/or familarize yourself with its proper opperation. If a hammer hook shears off due to improper heat treat and I put a round through my floor, thats an accident. If I pull the trigger on an unfamiliar weapon and it discharges, that not an accident that it fired. It did what it was designed to do. Show me where it says that an accident has to be non-preventable.

In fact, if something is non-preventable, it's usually referred to as an "act of god" not an accident.

double check definition 2a.

hell, check your insurance. I'll wait right here.

sacluded
04-25-2011, 8:18 PM
Does your mom still leave notes in your lunch box? just kidding, Im sure you have never made a mistake, ever. Next time I wont share, therefore never learning anything. I chose to share because I want to know what not to do next time.

I'm glad you shared. I've never owned or fired a 1911. I've been thinking about buying one though. I'm glad to have learned from your mistake and I thank you.

vince42
04-25-2011, 8:19 PM
Guys have been safely uncocking revolvers and other guns longer than a lot of the posers, i mean posters have been alive. enjoy piling on the poor guy. thanks to those that shared correct procedures to clear a 1911. some of you rookies with your new 1911's that hand live weapons to anyone that can pull a trigger are putting more people at risk than the OP. just my 2 cents, flame away....

James

sammy
04-25-2011, 8:20 PM
Without reading other posts you do not need to de-cock a 1911, ever. If their is a round in the chamber and you don't want to fire it, unload the gun. At the end of a range session if it makes you feel better having the hammer foward get a clean sight picture and pull the trigger.

SixPointEight
04-25-2011, 8:33 PM
How were you doing it that the slide didn't annihilate your thumb?

Mickey D
04-25-2011, 8:37 PM
One reason cocked and locked is best.

mugiwara
04-25-2011, 8:38 PM
i cant think of a reason to de-cock a 1911 with a round chambered... you ****ed up, and youre lucky nobody got killed. you ask if anybody else has had this "problem", a lot of people have had that "problem", its called being stupid with a weapon. the lesson you should learn from this is that you are not safe with handguns, and you need a lot more training/research before you are.

Cokebottle
04-25-2011, 8:39 PM
Does your mom still leave notes in your lunch box? just kidding, Im sure you have never made a mistake, ever. Next time I wont share, therefore never learning anything. I chose to share because I want to know what not to do next time.
Sorry, but we tend to get a bit touchy about things like this, and you should be as well.
Other people are at the range with us. Everyone has varying degrees of carefulness, or carelessness. In my entire life (I'm 48, been shooting since I was 5), I have never once witnessed an AD (or ND), even at a public range.... and I've seen a LOT of careless gun handling at ranges.

Nobody wants to be shot, especially when they are hanging with their friends or family enjoying a day at the range.

Ultimate
04-25-2011, 8:43 PM
I thought thats what the safety on the 1911 was for?

I've never had an AD (knock on wood).

OhDannyBoy
04-25-2011, 8:55 PM
How were you doing it that the slide didn't annihilate your thumb?

I'd like to know the answer to this as well.

JagerTroop
04-25-2011, 8:55 PM
I believe the beaver tail is the firing pin safety, so when its not depressed, even if the hammer drops, the gun should not discharge. but i could be wrong as well. I was under the impression that 1911's were to be cocked and locked.

WRONG AS HELL IS RIGHT.(eta* just noticed you typed "wrong as well". Oops. :D well, my statement still stands)

Sorry to put you on blast, but the beaver tail (aka: grip safety) simply blocks the trigger. It takes very little pressure to deactivate the grip safety, so do not rely solely on it. Also, on some older (or modified) 1911's the grip safety is extremely easy to deactivate.

The best safety on any gun is attached to your hand.

Keep your booger hook off the bang switch, and all will be fine.
There are very few TRUE accidental discharges. Most are pure negligence.

Be safe out there :)

Striker
04-25-2011, 8:55 PM
Have you ever had an accidental discharge? Just bought a 1911 and took it out to the range, trying to decock it the gun went off. I know this was my fault due to my unfamiliarity with the gun. It was pointed down range at the time(luckily) but has anyone ever had this problem? Or something similar happen?

You're lucky you didn't kill someone "accidentally" Hopefully you learned something from this. Since I didn't see anyone else ask; why were you trying to decock the weapon with a round in the chamber? I'll hope you weren't thinking carrying it, but I can't think of any reason to decock a loaded 1911 anywhere. Unloaded, yes; loaded, no.

bden
04-25-2011, 8:55 PM
Thank you OP for sharing your story. It is a great reminder to us all, and certainly takes some courage to admit.

Cokebottle
04-25-2011, 8:58 PM
I thought thats what the safety on the 1911 was for?
The 1911 safety doesn't decock like the 92FS, and some people are not comfortable carrying the 1911 "cocked and locked" because of how easily the safety can be "bumped" off, particularly when holstered (yes, something still has to pull the trigger).

But as mentioned above, if a person is not comfortable carrying the 1911 "cocked and locked"... or if the gun needs to be rendered safe for whatever reason (line break at the range, etc...), it needs to be cleared, chambered round removed.

Not all guns operate like that. The 92FS, Colt Double Eagle, and many others, the safety is a decocker. Most of those guns transition to dual-action when put on, and then taken off of safe.
The 1911 is single action only. Manually decock it and it much be manually cocked before being fired.

Cokebottle
04-25-2011, 9:00 PM
Since I didn't see anyone else ask; why were you trying to decock the weapon with a round in the chamber?
I asked (and others as well), but the OP hasn't posted in the thread for a while.

DannyZRC
04-25-2011, 9:02 PM
WRONG AS HELL IS RIGHT.(eta* just noticed you typed "wrong as well". Oops. :D well, my statement still stands)

Sorry to put you on blast, but the beaver tail (aka: grip safety) simply blocks the trigger. It takes very little pressure to deactivate the grip safety, so do not rely solely on it. Also, on some older (or modified) 1911's the grip safety is extremely easy to deactivate.

The best safety on any gun is attached to your hand.

Keep your booger hook off the bang switch, and all will be fine.
There are very few TRUE accidental discharges. Most are pure negligence.

Be safe out there :)

Some 1911s use something called a schwartz safety, which disables a firing pin block with the grip safety.

This is an alternative to the trigger activated firing pin block of the series 80.

Q619
04-25-2011, 9:07 PM
I believe the beaver tail is the firing pin safety, so when its not depressed, even if the hammer drops, the gun should not discharge. but i could be wrong as well. I was under the impression that 1911's were to be cocked and locked.

If the gun is loaded and the hammer drops, the hammer hits the firing pin, the firing pin hits the primer: gun go bang.

1911's aren't very complicated. There are animated diagrams out there illustrating the mechanical operation of a 1911. I believe YouTube has a couple.

Coded-Dude
04-25-2011, 9:13 PM
Some 1911s use something called a schwartz safety, which disables a firing pin block with the grip safety.

This is an alternative to the trigger activated firing pin block of the series 80.

Yes...this is what I was talking about. I know kimber uses it, and i thought S&W did as well. but again, this is just from me reading/reaserching 1911 forums. Not actually verify myself. I am very careful with how I handle my 1911.

Another unique feature of the SW1911 is the use of a firing pin blocking automatic safety. Colt tried a similar design on their Series 80 pistols, but many shooters objected that it adversely affected the trigger pull. Smith & Wesson got around that problem by linking the firing pin safety to the grip safety, thereby leaving the trigger pull unaffected, while adding a useful safety device in the event that the pistol is dropped upon its muzzle. Great idea!source (http://www.gunblast.com/SW1911.htm)

Fishslayer
04-25-2011, 9:13 PM
They de-cock a loaded gun with one hand in movies when it's loaded


I've actually tried that a few times (unloaded of course). Extremely hard to do, at least for me it is. I can't seem to depress the grip safety, the trigger & control the hammer all at once.

My wife gets impatient when she's not in the birdsplat (black) area of the target & likes to try to manipulate the traveler with a cocked & ready pistol in her hand so she can see where she's hitting. At least I've got her to remember to decock when she's using her SIG & slide safety with the 1911.

I really wish she'd just finish the mag first...:mad:

Coded-Dude
04-25-2011, 9:21 PM
I've actually tried that a few times (unloaded of course). Extremely hard to do, at least for me it is. I can't seem to depress the grip safety, the trigger & control the hammer all at once.

My wife gets impatient when she's not in the birdsplat (black) area of the target & likes to try to manipulate the traveler with a cocked & ready pistol in her hand so she can see where she's hitting. At least I've got her to remember to decock when she's using her SIG & slide safety with the 1911.

I really wish she'd just finish the mag first...:mad:

I bought some snap caps to practice this and am getting pretty good. I have to move my hand a little, but like i said, i am getting pretty good. but like others have said, its better to do this unloaded(or leave it cocked and locked).

five.five-six
04-25-2011, 9:25 PM
last time I AD'd, 9 month later we named him Bryce

gorenut
04-25-2011, 9:28 PM
last time I AD'd, 9 month later we named him Bryce

Give the man a cigar!

Fishslayer
04-25-2011, 9:28 PM
I bought some snap caps to practice this and am getting pretty good. I have to move my hand a little, but like i said, i am getting pretty good. but like others have said, its better to do this unloaded(or leave it cocked and locked).

And as others have said there's really no reason to decock a 1911 with one in the chamber.

baz152
04-25-2011, 9:34 PM
Why would you ever want to decock a 1911 with a round in the chamber?

RTE
04-25-2011, 9:36 PM
Safely pointed down range
would that be more like a surprise discharge.....and a cheap lesson to stay alert.

Coded-Dude
04-25-2011, 9:37 PM
And as others have said there's really no reason to decock a 1911 with one in the chamber.

I am in total agreement here, but still practice it for the hell of it(with snap caps). I have yet to even think about doing it with a round in the chamber.

PandaLuv
04-25-2011, 9:38 PM
Why would you ever want to decock a 1911 with a round in the chamber?

...... no answer. Ask OP !

five.five-six
04-25-2011, 9:40 PM
Why would you ever want to decock a 1911 with a round in the chamber?



to get a Vicodin prescription from the emergency room :confused:

Voo
04-25-2011, 9:40 PM
Also, insert standard rant here about how accidental discharge is the correct term, unless we're gonna go around calling things negligent automotive collisions, or negligent use of skis, or accuse children of negligent misuse of waste mechanisms.

didn't mean for it to happen = accident, get over it you delusional bastages. :p

You're responsible for accidents that YOU CAUSE.. ex driving while under the influence, speeding, forgetting to turn on your headlights, switching lanes without looking, driving too close and then hitting somebody. Those are all "accidents". But those accidents are ones where you're at fault. Essentially you should have known better and could have taken measures to avoid being put in those situations. In this case, being at fault is the same as being negligent. You caused the accident to happen.

The other types of accidents are when they happen beyond your control. EX. if your tire blows out. Nobody could have foreseen that you were going to run over a nail or that possibly there was a defect in the tire. You were doing exactly what the car was suppose to do. Call it an act of god, or whatever you want, but there are things you cannot avoid and must accept that are beyond your control if you wish to drive.

With the OP, if he had read the instruction manual this would never have happened. There are controllable and uncontrollable variables. What happened with the OP was that he made poor decisions in how to decock his gun- which resulted in it firing. Do you blame the gun or do you blame him? THe gun didnt' magically fire. He pressed the trigger and the hammer released as it was suppose to do. For whatever reason, his finger slipped. Sure it's an accident, but the situation was one he entirely put himself in. What happened with him and his 1911 was 100% avoidable.

Nobody is mistake free. But learning from your errors takes a degree of accepting responsibility for that mistake. I really hope you see the difference between accidents that are preventable vs. ones you have no control over.

scarville
04-25-2011, 9:42 PM
De-cocking a 1911 is not recommend. No one was hurt and, as Yoda never said, "Ignorance is curable if you are smart enough to learn."

I had an ND with a 1911 about 30 years ago. I was busy trying to help one of the girls in local shooting club get her stance adjusted when the guy next to me asked for help. He didn't know what was wrong. That should have been my first clue to be extra careful. The slide on his 1911 was locked back so I dropped the magazine -- empty -- hit the slide release, pointed it downrange and pulled the trigger.

Boom!

After a few questions I figured out that the last round had gone "click" so he tried to rack the slide and it locked. He wasn't sure what to do next so he left it on the bench for me to look at. For some reason the gun didn't extract that last round but I didn't double check to be sure the chamber was empty.

At least it gave me a good reason to give a mini-lecture on why you always keep your gun pointed in a safe direction.

DannyZRC
04-25-2011, 9:50 PM
Voo, I have no disagreement that many accidents are preventable.

I just have a sour taste from all the pitchfork 'n torchers that roll out of the woodwork every time someone brings up an accident.

Shenaniguns
04-25-2011, 9:53 PM
Wow.. get some training.. RTFM and have someone show you how it works before you kill someone. I'm being serious. Trying to decock a 1911 says a lot about your lack of experience. What happened with you was NEGLIGENT, not ACCIDENTAL. You took it upon yourself to try and figure things out and as a result, you made the gun fire when you didnt' expect to. There is no way in the world the owner's manual told you that you should have done what you did.

Shooting has a dangerous learning curve. I've had to "stop" or "shout" at guys who've shot for years and years because they were about to do something ridiculously dangerous. It only takes one lapse in judgment for things to end badly.

The times I've had close calls, those were my fault. My fault = NEGLIGENT DISCHARGE. I almost shot a buddy. It was "THAT" close. Safety is to be taken seriously even if it's at the expense of your ego. Since that moment, I've never come close to putting anyone in danger (me included)

Rule # 1
Treat all guns as if they are loaded.

Rule # 2
Never point the gun at anything you do not want to destroy or kill.

Rule # 3
Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire.

Rule # 4
Be absolutely sure of your target, and what is behind it.

Have fun with your new 1911, but good lordie, be safe about it.



I have to agree with Voo once again...

Kruzr
04-25-2011, 9:55 PM
Wow, based on what I just read, there are a lot of folks who should not have a 1911 in their hand.

What the OP had was a negligent discharge. If you drive your car into a crowd, it isn't an accident. His hand was on the trigger and he released the hammer. As has been said, this isn't something that should be done on a modern 1911.

All the safeties in the world would not have prevented this. A Series 80 would have been released since he had the trigger pulled. A Swartz would have been released since the trigger was back and the grip safety, even if his hand wasn't on it would have been above the trigger bar and the push rod would have been engaged.

Someone stated they thought the grip safety stopped the hammer. It doesn't.

Be sure you understand how to use your gun before you load it!

chesterthehero
04-25-2011, 9:57 PM
my god theres a lot of bunched up panties in this thread...

you were pointed safe... no one got hurt or came close to getting hurt... live and learn.. this is why you dont do that.. so now ya know..

first one i ever had was when i was around 8y/o.. .410 brake action single shot.. hammer had to be down to crack it open.. nearly lost a few toes with that one but thankfully my stepdad had schooled me well in muzzle discipline... close but no toes..

second one i ever had was a few months ago while trying out a single shot olympic pistol with a 1/8th lb trigger.. if you looked at it for more than a moment it would go off.. loaded it with it pointed at the target.. set it off twice while trying to "find" the trigger... 3rd shot i fired with it was the only one i intended to fire at the time that it fired..

my glock did suprise the heck out of me several times after i did changed out some springs and droped the trigger down to 3.5lbs.. now that im use to it i can once again feel the extreamly light bit of a hump before it breaks but the first 30-50 rounds were a total suprise each time i pulled the trigger..

Coded-Dude
04-25-2011, 10:06 PM
Wow, based on what I just read, there are a lot of folks who should not have a 1911 in their hand.

What the OP had was a negligent discharge. If you drive your car into a crowd, it isn't an accident. His hand was on the trigger and he released the hammer. As has been said, this isn't something that should be done on a modern 1911.

All the safeties in the world would not have prevented this. A Series 80 would have been released since he had the trigger pulled. A Swartz would have been released since the trigger was back and the grip safety, even if his hand wasn't on it would have been above the trigger bar and the push rod would have been engaged.

Someone stated they thought the grip safety stopped the hammer. It doesn't.

Be sure you understand how to use your gun before you load it!

my palm comes completely off the beaver tail when decocking one handed(disabling the firing pin). i did not use it as an excuse to perform said action, only mentioned that it is a safety feature in some 1911's. this is certainly not true if i use my other hand(two fingers) to grip the skeleton hammer and decock it(beaver tail is still engaged)........but like i said, i ONLY do this with snap caps, and would never think about doing it while loaded. I might post a video later to show what I am talking about, but its not really important. as stated, I am very cautious when handling my 1911, so think what you want about whether or not i should/shouldn't own one. Never had a ND in my life and have been shooting since I was a little kid. *knocks on wood*

rob145
04-25-2011, 10:09 PM
Better that you learned this lesson while your weapon was pointed down range than having the weapon go off in your home and hurting a loved one or a neighbor.

Shenaniguns
04-25-2011, 10:10 PM
Wow, based on what I just read, there are a lot of folks who should not have a 1911 in their hand.

What the OP had was a negligent discharge. If you drive your car into a crowd, it isn't an accident. His hand was on the trigger and he released the hammer. As has been said, this isn't something that should be done on a modern 1911.

All the safeties in the world would not have prevented this. A Series 80 would have been released since he had the trigger pulled. A Swartz would have been released since the trigger was back and the grip safety, even if his hand wasn't on it would have been above the trigger bar and the push rod would have been engaged.

Someone stated they thought the grip safety stopped the hammer. It doesn't.

Be sure you understand how to use your gun before you load it!



And to make it worse, the OP still doesn't understand why he should not decock a loaded 1911 and is asking if it is a mechanical problem with the grip safety.

evolixsurf
04-25-2011, 10:24 PM
After many many thousands of rounds in my life, I had a accidental/negligent discharge. I was shooting indoor working on trigger reset. Really basic and routine... I had shot a lot of rounds that session and was also shooting a range rental that was hurting my hand. I was back with my M&P with apex kit and had a slight muscle spasm in my palm while just off the reset.... bamm it went off into the ceiling area. That was scary, and a BIG EYE OPENER. I learned a few things that day. 1. Thats why they say not to mod carry guns... It made it that much easier for the trigger to drop. 2. Stop shooting when your fatigued. You can hurt yourself or others. 3. Dont ride the trigger reset tight. Back off just a tiny bit to prevent accidental discharge. 4. Go with the highest trigger pull that you can shoot accurately. 5. Everyone else should learn from this(no matter how good you think you are).

locosway
04-26-2011, 12:20 AM
Have you ever had an accidental discharge? Just bought a 1911 and took it out to the range, trying to decock it the gun went off. I know this was my fault due to my unfamiliarity with the gun. It was pointed down range at the time(luckily) but has anyone ever had this problem? Or something similar happen?

This wasn't an accident, it was negligent.

It happens..consider yourself lucky and learn from it.

No, it doesn't happen.

There's no reason to de-cock a 1911. They're designed to be carried hammer back safety on. If for some reason you need to drop the hammer, unload, and pull the trigger in a safe direction.

You should always store your pistol in the condition you carry. There's no reason to pull the trigger on a Glock or drop the hammer on a 1911 to store it. This is a stupid practice that happens during competitions to show unloaded, and it causes bad habits.

redcliff
04-26-2011, 2:56 AM
Jeff Cooper called it "Condition One and Only" for a reason. Going to condition 2 is just plain unsafe.

Glad no one was hurt and the pistol was pointed down range.

digby
04-26-2011, 3:17 AM
This wasn't an accident, it was negligent.



No, it doesn't happen.

There's no reason to de-cock a 1911. They're designed to be carried hammer back safety on. If for some reason you need to drop the hammer, unload, and pull the trigger in a safe direction.

You should always store your pistol in the condition you carry. There's no reason to pull the trigger on a Glock or drop the hammer on a 1911 to store it. This is a stupid practice that happens during competitions to show unloaded, and it causes bad habits.

unless you have a ccw(in california), if youre carrying, youre carrying with the hammer down anyways. How is that a bad habit on a cold range or in general?

jm838
04-26-2011, 4:27 AM
And to make it worse, the OP still doesn't understand why he should not decock a loaded 1911 and is asking if it is a mechanical problem with the grip safety.

He never indicated this after his first post. I'd like to think he probably figured it out after reading about how much everyone hates him now. Give it a rest.

Semantics. I don't feel carelessness or ignorance are accidental. You choose to be careless. When dealing with machines, firearms in this case, you can choose to read the manual and/or familarize yourself with its proper opperation. If a hammer hook shears off due to improper heat treat and I put a round through my floor, thats an accident. If I pull the trigger on an unfamiliar weapon and it discharges, that not an accident that it fired. It did what it was designed to do.

Did you just accuse someone of wasting time on "semantics" then formulate a semantic argument? Is that legal?

I had an accidental discharge once (I am going to call it that just to piss you guys off now). I was a kid, and I was shooting clays. I put my finger on the trigger just a little bit early and annihilated a patch of dirt about a foot in front of me. I was following the other rules and had the shotgun pointed in a safe direction, so nobody was injured and I learned a lesson that I'll never forget.

Shenaniguns
04-26-2011, 5:39 AM
He never indicated this after his first post. I'd like to think he probably figured it out after reading about how much everyone hates him now. Give it a rest.



.



Actually it wasa post 13
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=6273353&postcount=13

Shenaniguns
04-26-2011, 5:49 AM
After many many thousands of rounds in my life, I had a accidental/negligent discharge. I was shooting indoor working on trigger reset. Really basic and routine... I had shot a lot of rounds that session and was also shooting a range rental that was hurting my hand. I was back with my M&P with apex kit and had a slight muscle spasm in my palm while just off the reset.... bamm it went off into the ceiling area. That was scary, and a BIG EYE OPENER. I learned a few things that day. 1. Thats why they say not to mod carry guns... It made it that much easier for the trigger to drop. 2. Stop shooting when your fatigued. You can hurt yourself or others. 3. Dont ride the trigger reset tight. Back off just a tiny bit to prevent accidental discharge. 4. Go with the highest trigger pull that you can shoot accurately. 5. Everyone else should learn from this(no matter how good you think you are).



100's of thousands of people carry modified firearms just fine, your fatigue should have been an indicator to stop. And if your aiming towards the ceiling than your finger needs to be off the trigger period! "Off target, off the trigger"

fuenstock
04-26-2011, 7:34 AM
That's what everyone who handles a gun should know this. I took some friends out to shoot with me. My chick friend almost blew my f*cking brains out. I told each and everyone those four major rules,many times. When it was her turn to shoot, she rested her finger on the trigger before she even started shooting ! I was like wtf? I yelled at her multiple times not to do that, I thought I got to her. After firing a couple of times, she got all excited and started screaming and WAVING THE GUN LEFT AND RUN WHILE THE BULLET IN THE CHAMBER, FINGER ON THE TRIGGER AND IN SINGLE ACTION ! She pointed the gun straight at my face and at by standing shooters.
I ducked and yelled " WHAT THE F*CK ARE YOU DOING?! FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER ! POINT THE GUN TOWARDS THE TARGET!!!!"
I was fcking pissed and scared as hell. I chewed her *** out afterwards, but I am not taking her to shoot ever again.
That's how people hurt people with guns accidentally by being retards.

Dude that's scary! With a new shooter I would only give them 1 round at a time to shoot until you see they have a good understanding of being safe at the range. Please dont give a new shooter a full magazine! I think it would be more your fault then a new shooters fault if they have a NG at the range since you are the one that's supposed to know better. Glad nobody got hurt.

Steve1968LS2
04-26-2011, 7:38 AM
Glad your ok. Finger off the trigger til your ready to shoot bruh!

Uh.. to decock a 1911 you need to pull the trigger to release the hammer.. miss that part?

Anyways, this is why I never got into 1911s until recently.. I was a Sig guy and liked the decocking lever (same with my USP). I always worried about slipping with the the hammer and discharging a round. Still the one thing I dislike about the 1911 design.

I practice with snap caps since it's natural to hold it in a way that depresses the grip safety..

Steve1968LS2
04-26-2011, 7:46 AM
my god theres a lot of bunched up panties in this thread...

..

Yea, there's a good percentage of this board with "superiority" complexes.. they are the ones that don't make mistakes, ask "silly" questions and generally are smarter and by default better than others.

:)

esartori
04-26-2011, 8:06 AM
While he shouldn't have tried to decock a loaded 1911, if he's still reading this I'm sure he's learned. Props to him for mentioning it here and its a good reminder to all of us. I'm glad no one got hurt

Oceanbob
04-26-2011, 8:12 AM
Have you ever had an accidental discharge? Just bought a 1911 and took it out to the range, trying to decock it the gun went off. I know this was my fault due to my unfamiliarity with the gun. It was pointed down range at the time(luckily) but has anyone ever had this problem? Or something similar happen?

It took a lot of GUTs to post this.

And now you know better..:D

Consider this a valuable lesson for everyone. A reminder.

I am glad you followed rule number 2. (point the weapon in safe direction)

Bob

clcolin81
04-26-2011, 8:22 AM
my palm comes completely off the beaver tail when decocking one handed(disabling the firing pin).

If you were to decock, you would have to press the grip safety anyway, otherewise you couldn't pull the trigger to release the hammer. :confused:

Also, regarding the 80's series firing pin safety, I don't have any experience with one, but I though this was only introduced to prevent AD when the gun is dropped.

Moto4Fun
04-26-2011, 8:40 AM
I will keep the GOOD momentum flowing. Thanks OP for pointing out your error, so that others may avoid such accidents.

I hate the accident vs negligent discussion. It is only a gun thing (although there is a very similar system of accountability in the skydiving world). The guy didn't mean to fire the gun, he accidentally discharged the weapon.

I have never ND or AD'd a weapon. I once pulled the trigger on a gun to see if a round would fire, and it did. I wasn't intending to shoot anything and really didn't want the gun to discharge, but I had to check to see if there was a round in the chamber somehow! In this case the slide was locked up and the safety wasn't operating properly. It was a Ruger Mark 2 or some kind of clone. It was my choice to take the risk and I did it.

I did watch my Dad ND a 1911. He (and I am betting he is not the only one) likes to thumb down his hammers. Be it a revolver or a Sig with a decocker, he likes to pull the trigger one handed and ride the hammer with his thumb. He shot a .45 inch hole through his bed that day.

IT DOES HAPPEN. People learn to manipulate their weapons. Some successfully go through life without ever surprising themselves or making mistakes, but not many. I think the OP did himself a big disservice by saying "it was pointed down range...(luckily)". What he should have said is that he kept it pointed down range because he knows the basic safety rules, and it paid off. There was no luck in the case. He did what he was supposed to do on one account, and did something that he shouldn't have on another.

With regards to lowering the hammer, I have a similar learning experience with 1911. Oddly enough, nobody has ever stepped up and tried to tell me the "better" way to do it. When checking out a 1911 at the shop, I always want to feel the slide, and it is usually handed over with it open. Not wanting to dry fire, how then are you supposed to drop the hammer. I have found the 2 hand method on my own, and can safely perform it. But even after 3 pages of EGO blasts on this thread, I think maybe one person has offered an explanation on how to safely drop the hammer on a 1911.

Lessons learned:
Either engage safety (with hammer cocked) or completely unload a 1911. There is no middle ground.

Never claim to having an accident on Calguns, you will get your nose rubbed in it like a dog.

Coded-Dude
04-26-2011, 8:41 AM
If you were to decock, you would have to press the grip safety anyway, otherewise you couldn't pull the trigger to release the hammer. :confused:

Also, regarding the 80's series firing pin safety, I don't have any experience with one, but I though this was only introduced to prevent AD when the gun is dropped.


I'll take a video tonight(with snap caps) and post it up here tomorrow.

gorenut
04-26-2011, 8:49 AM
I will keep the GOOD momentum flowing. Thanks OP for pointing out your error, so that others may avoid such accidents.

I hate the accident vs negligent discussion. It is only a gun thing (although there is a very similar system of accountability in the skydiving world). The guy didn't mean to fire the gun, he accidentally discharged the weapon.

I have never ND or AD'd a weapon. I once pulled the trigger on a gun to see if a round would fire, and it did. I wasn't intending to shoot anything and really didn't want the gun to discharge, but I had to check to see if there was a round in the chamber somehow! In this case the slide was locked up and the safety wasn't operating properly. It was a Ruger Mark 2 or some kind of clone. It was my choice to take the risk and I did it.

I did watch my Dad ND a 1911. He (and I am betting he is not the only one) likes to thumb down his hammers. Be it a revolver or a Sig with a decocker, he likes to pull the trigger one handed and ride the hammer with his thumb. He shot a .45 inch hole through his bed that day.

IT DOES HAPPEN. People learn to manipulate their weapons. Some successfully go through life without ever surprising themselves or making mistakes, but not many. I think the OP did himself a big disservice by saying "it was pointed down range...(luckily)". What he should have said is that he kept it pointed down range because he knows the basic safety rules, and it paid off. There was no luck in the case. He did what he was supposed to do on one account, and did something that he shouldn't have on another.

With regards to lowering the hammer, I have a similar learning experience with 1911. Oddly enough, nobody has ever stepped up and tried to tell me the "better" way to do it. When checking out a 1911 at the shop, I always want to feel the slide, and it is usually handed over with it open. Not wanting to dry fire, how then are you supposed to drop the hammer. I have found the 2 hand method on my own, and can safely perform it. But even after 3 pages of EGO blasts on this thread, I think maybe one person has offered an explanation on how to safely drop the hammer on a 1911.

Lessons learned:
Either engage safety (with hammer cocked) or completely unload a 1911. There is no middle ground.

Never claim to having an accident on Calguns, you will get your nose rubbed in it like a dog.

+1

Glad to see there are members that don't take every chance to tear someone else down.

Voo
04-26-2011, 9:17 AM
I almost shot a buddy once.. at point blank range .. The gun went BANG while I was showing him something... He was literally standing in front of me and the gun was pointed about 12 inches away from his gut.. I didnt' mean to have it fire, but I knew it was loaded and neglected to be safe about it. It was a complete "accident" as some of the people here like to say.

Mistakes happen to everyone, period. Nobody is immune and anyone who claims otherwise is full of it.. What's truly important, IMHO, is how you handle your mistakes. Saying it was an accident means what really? That somehow it was not your fault, that the incident wasn't due to your actions?

The OP came into this simply asking if others had similar experiences.. He didn't really express any concern other than to see if anyone else had gone through something similar. It's "not my fault" somehow comes out when you say "accident" -ie denial.

That day, out in the desert, I almost shot (and probably would've killed) my buddy. I learned something valuable by owning up to that mistake. Mistakes happen to everyone, but in reality it's what you learn from them that makes them so significant.

Shenaniguns
04-26-2011, 9:29 AM
I will keep the GOOD momentum flowing. Thanks OP for pointing out your error, so that others may avoid such accidents.

I hate the accident vs negligent discussion. It is only a gun thing (although there is a very similar system of accountability in the skydiving world). The guy didn't mean to fire the gun, he accidentally discharged the weapon.

I have never ND or AD'd a weapon. I once pulled the trigger on a gun to see if a round would fire, and it did. I wasn't intending to shoot anything and really didn't want the gun to discharge, but I had to check to see if there was a round in the chamber somehow! In this case the slide was locked up and the safety wasn't operating properly. It was a Ruger Mark 2 or some kind of clone. It was my choice to take the risk and I did it.

I did watch my Dad ND a 1911. He (and I am betting he is not the only one) likes to thumb down his hammers. Be it a revolver or a Sig with a decocker, he likes to pull the trigger one handed and ride the hammer with his thumb. He shot a .45 inch hole through his bed that day.

IT DOES HAPPEN. People learn to manipulate their weapons. Some successfully go through life without ever surprising themselves or making mistakes, but not many. I think the OP did himself a big disservice by saying "it was pointed down range...(luckily)". What he should have said is that he kept it pointed down range because he knows the basic safety rules, and it paid off. There was no luck in the case. He did what he was supposed to do on one account, and did something that he shouldn't have on another.

With regards to lowering the hammer, I have a similar learning experience with 1911. Oddly enough, nobody has ever stepped up and tried to tell me the "better" way to do it. When checking out a 1911 at the shop, I always want to feel the slide, and it is usually handed over with it open. Not wanting to dry fire, how then are you supposed to drop the hammer. I have found the 2 hand method on my own, and can safely perform it. But even after 3 pages of EGO blasts on this thread, I think maybe one person has offered an explanation on how to safely drop the hammer on a 1911.

Lessons learned:
Either engage safety (with hammer cocked) or completely unload a 1911. There is no middle ground.

Never claim to having an accident on Calguns, you will get your nose rubbed in it like a dog.




The problem here is that if your Dad read the manual (RTFM) he'd know that thumbing a Sig down opposed to using the decocker defeats what I believe is a firing pin block.



Mistakes do happen, the point a few are trying to make is learn your firearms as well as the 4 safety rules.

JTROKS
04-26-2011, 9:30 AM
The only accidental discharge that I can think of was during an USPSA club match. I was shooting my Open class Caspian Hi-cap and I was pushing the pedal to the metal to beat a friends time. Sure enough that 2 lb trigger was just a little too light as I was coming up with the gun, luckily it still hit the target.

luckystrike
04-26-2011, 9:47 AM
Sell your 1911, and get an AirSoft until you know how to run a gun.

you cant be serious. if so, you get 20 tacticool points for mentioning airsoft on a gun forum.

you guys do know that a 1911 has a half-cock position right? im not sure if all do. I know springfield does, dont recall if kimber does or not.

Coded-Dude
04-26-2011, 9:48 AM
you cant be serious. if so, you get 20 tacticool points for mentioning airsoft on a gun forum.

you guys do know that a 1911 has a half-cock position right? im not sure if all do. I know springfield does, dont recall if kimber does or not.

S&W has that position as well.

Moto4Fun
04-26-2011, 9:50 AM
The problem here is that if your Dad read the manual (RTFM) he'd know that thumbing a Sig down opposed to using the decocker defeats what I believe is a firing pin block.


Absolutely. He knows better, and I have told him. I guess it's the cowboy gunslinger thing. For some reason he always spins it on his finger before holstering it too. Thank god for that long and heavy DA pull!

Dan-O
04-26-2011, 9:52 AM
Same thing happened to me when i was about 12, fortunately my dad taught me well and i had the gun pointed down range

Shenaniguns
04-26-2011, 9:53 AM
you cant be serious. if so, you get 20 tacticool points for mentioning airsoft on a gun forum.

you guys do know that a 1911 has a half-cock position right? im not sure if all do. I know springfield does, dont recall if kimber does or not.


The halfcock position is there to prevent a true accidental discharge for a mechanical problem but 'can' be used as a safety mechanism for those who thumb the hammer. Just because you can, does not mean you should.

http://www.sightm1911.com/Care/1911_conditions.htm

SIGSHOOTR
04-26-2011, 10:08 AM
I shuddered when I read the original post. Incidents like this are my worst nightmare going to the range. I've seen various posts on this forum from people who say stuff like, "I feel comfortable around guns and don't think I need formal training." Total BS. And the lack of range etiquette I've seen out there from some folks is appalling. Know your weapon and how to operate/handle it properly/safely; know your capabilities and PLEASE get training before coming out and endangering other people's lives. Rant over.

locosway
04-26-2011, 10:13 AM
unless you have a ccw(in california), if youre carrying, youre carrying with the hammer down anyways. How is that a bad habit on a cold range or in general?

What are you talking about? Having a CCW has no effect on how you carry your firearm and where the hammer is. The 1911 was designed to be carried hammer back, safety on. This is the entire reason why there are several safeties on the 1911.

Dropping the hammer before holstering or storing to show clear is a bad idea. The reason being is you'll form this habit, and then one day someone who gets careless will go to holster their weapon or put it back into the safe and is going to ND. It happens!

The better option is to leave the pistol in which it was intended to be carried. If it's unloaded, then it's safe, there's no need to drop the hammer, it does not make the pistol safer.

Kala
04-26-2011, 10:23 AM
Quick question, what happened to your thumb when the slide came back at ya?

Chuck67
04-26-2011, 10:28 AM
Voo, I have no disagreement that many accidents are preventable.

I just have a sour taste from all the pitchfork 'n torchers that roll out of the woodwork every time someone brings up an accident.

^Why dont they just break out the ole tar & feathers already ?

I'm in no way vouching for OP's mistake and I understand the seriousness of what he did but he seems like he came here to get some info & learn from his mistake so that it wont happen again. Not to get grilled by everyone and their mother multiple times. You guys are running a train on this dude lol

locosway
04-26-2011, 10:30 AM
^Why dont they just break out the ole tar & feathers already ?

I'm in no way vouching for OP's mistake and I understand the seriousness of what he did but he seems like he came here to get some info & learn from his mistake so that it wont happen again. Not to get grilled by everyone and their mother multiple times. You guys are running a train on this dude lol

Most of the grilling is people arguing about what condition you should keep your pistol in.

Oceanbob
04-26-2011, 10:37 AM
unless you have a ccw(in california), if youre carrying, youre carrying with the hammer down anyways. How is that a bad habit on a cold range or in general?

A .45 Auto (1911) is carried 'Cocked and Locked' in a safe manner.

The weapon is a 'Single action autoloading pistol' and being single action, the hammer has to be in a COCKED POSITION before firing.

I carried a 1911 for years and the normal carry mode is hammer back (cocked) thumb safety ON and a round in the chamber.

The 1911 should never be carried in condition 2, hammer down on a chambered round. Good way to get yourself or someone else killed if you drop the weapon on the ground, or try to thumb back the hammer and your finger slips before getting it back enough to lock it.....not good at all.

COCKED AND LOCKED..very safe.

And NEVER lower a hammer on a loaded chamber. Best to remove the magazine, jack the round out of the chamber; do a gun empty check, then lower the hammer.

I think the problem with people buying a 1911 is some of them only understand double-action pistols with decocking levers..and forget that the
1911 is a single-action autoloader. I certainly hope someone would take a few minutes to explain the difference to these new, inexperienced buyers.



Habit patterns with weapons Are So Important.

Be safe people.!

Bob

digby
04-26-2011, 11:20 AM
What are you talking about? Having a CCW has no effect on how you carry your firearm and where the hammer is. The 1911 was designed to be carried hammer back, safety on. This is the entire reason why there are several safeties on the 1911.

Dropping the hammer before holstering or storing to show clear is a bad idea. The reason being is you'll form this habit, and then one day someone who gets careless will go to holster their weapon or put it back into the safe and is going to ND. It happens!

The better option is to leave the pistol in which it was intended to be carried. If it's unloaded, then it's safe, there's no need to drop the hammer, it does not make the pistol safer.

what I meant to say is that unless you do have a ccw, open carry in CA means that the firearm is unloaded, empty chamber without a magazine.

if you form the habit of dropping the hammer before holstering, hopefully the habit that goes with it - unload and show clear, also comes with it. If not, then I agree, dropping the hammer on a firearm that you havent checked is a bad idea.

clcolin81
04-26-2011, 11:36 AM
what I meant to say is that unless you do have a ccw, open carry in CA means that the firearm is unloaded, empty chamber without a magazine.

if you form the habit of dropping the hammer before holstering, hopefully the habit that goes with it - unload and show clear, also comes with it. If not, then I agree, dropping the hammer on a firearm that you havent checked is a bad idea.

I was going to ask for clarification on this too. That makes sense. I suppose there is a reason to carry with the hammer down: Open carry with the chamber is empty. Cocked and lock would be pointless if you have to chamber a round before you can fire. Of course, I still don't quite see the point in carrying unloaded anyway. (uh-oh, I hope this doesn't spur another debate :D)

rogervzv
04-26-2011, 11:45 AM
A .45 Auto (1911) is carried 'Cocked and Locked' in a safe manner.

The weapon is a 'Single action autoloading pistol' and being single action, the hammer has to be in a COCKED POSITION before firing.

I carried a 1911 for years and the normal carry mode is hammer back (cocked) thumb safety ON and a round in the chamber.

The 1911 should never be carried in condition 2, hammer down on a chambered round. Good way to get yourself or someone else killed if you drop the weapon on the ground, or try to thumb back the hammer and your finger slips before getting it back enough to lock it.....not good at all.

COCKED AND LOCKED..very safe.

And NEVER lower a hammer on a loaded chamber. Best to remove the magazine, jack the round out of the chamber; do a gun empty check, then lower the hammer.

I think the problem with people buying a 1911 is some of them only understand double-action pistols with decocking levers..and forget that the
1911 is a single-action autoloader. I certainly hope someone would take a few minutes to explain the difference to these new, inexperienced buyers.


Bob
+1 Exactly right. No one of whom I am aware advises that the 1911 be carried with a round in the chamber and the hammer down. To my knowledge this is never done and is unsafe.
There is no reason to ever decock a 1911 with a round in the chamber.

The OP made an honest mistake and illustrates the importance of knowing one's firearm before using it. Let us all be charitable and thank him for sharing his learning experience with the group. None of us knows everything and I imagine most of us have our recollections about our own mistakes.

Coded-Dude
04-26-2011, 11:48 AM
I was going to ask for clarification on this too. That makes sense. I suppose there is a reason to carry with the hammer down: Open carry with the chamber is empty. Cocked and lock would be pointless if you have to chamber a round before you can fire. Of course, I still don't quite see the point in carrying unloaded anyway. (uh-oh, I hope this doesn't spur another debate :D)

its actually easier to rack the slide with the hammer cocked than it is to try and chamber a round with the hammer up(smoother action).

edit - so some may have misconstrued one of my original posts hammer down/hammer up, cocked/uncocked. I consider hammer down as cocked. Preferred safe method of carry = cocked and locked with thumb safety on.

ElvenSoul
04-26-2011, 12:01 PM
Think this needs to be a 1911 safety sticky

rogervzv
04-26-2011, 12:10 PM
its actually easier to rack the slide with the hammer cocked than it is to try and chamber a round with the hammer up(smoother action).

edit - so some may have misconstrued one of my original posts hammer down/hammer up, cocked/uncocked. I consider hammer down as cocked. Preferred safe method of carry = cocked and locked with thumb safety on.

Regardless, hammer down is the exact opposite of "cocked" on a 1911 pistol. Hammer down is an unsafe position for a 1911 with a round in the chamber and it is incorrect terminology to refer to a 1911 with a round in the chamber and the hammer down as being properly "cocked."

Corky43
04-26-2011, 12:51 PM
Putting the whole 1911 issue aside, if you shoot guns a lot, there is one fact.

"There are those who have had a AD/ND and those who will!"

I have had "ONE" in my many years of shooting and I will nevery forget it. It is a very sobering experience. Fortunately, I ony got a DQ from the match and didn't heart myself or anyone else.

It's easy to get complacent when you shoot a lot and it only take a fraction of a seconds worth of lack of concentration.

Moto4Fun
04-26-2011, 1:10 PM
its actually easier to rack the slide with the hammer cocked than it is to try and chamber a round with the hammer up(smoother action).

edit - so some may have misconstrued one of my original posts hammer down/hammer up, cocked/uncocked. I consider hammer down as cocked. Preferred safe method of carry = cocked and locked with thumb safety on.

I think you are confusing the term up and down. Hammer down is when the hammer is against its rest, in the relaxed position. Hammer up is when it is cocked and ready for action. So when it is forward and up it is "down" and when it is down and back it is "Up":eek:

DannyZRC
04-26-2011, 1:15 PM
I don't think anyone uses hammer up, it's "down" or "back" generally.

Coded-Dude
04-26-2011, 1:27 PM
I was using the term to describe the relative position of the hammer...in my case it was up(when resting against the firing pin) and down when pulled back into the cocked position. sorry for the confusion in terminology. guess i can understand how that might make things complicated, but as stated i am in condition one or the gun is unloaded.

nick562
04-26-2011, 1:36 PM
what range where you at so i know not to go

tacticalcity
04-26-2011, 1:43 PM
Have you ever had an accidental discharge? Just bought a 1911 and took it out to the range, trying to decock it the gun went off. I know this was my fault due to my unfamiliarity with the gun. It was pointed down range at the time(luckily) but has anyone ever had this problem? Or something similar happen?

Have I ever been surprised by a firearm discharging before I intended it to when pointed down range? Yes. Had it happen when not pointed down range? No, and fingers are crossed that I won't.

Either way, such a thing is called a neglegent discharge and not an accidental discharge. Call it a pet peeve, but I always point this out when I see an ND called and AD.

We in the shooting community don't use the traffic definition of an accident. We hold ourselves to a much higher standard. It is only an accident if it was not caused by some failure on your part and it just went off on its own. However, if you fail to obey the safety rules or in any way do something that causes the discharge then that meets the very definition of neglegence on your part.

Take your 1911 incident. It was caused by your infamiliarity with the firearm. You did not know what you were supposed to know. Therefore it was your fault. Perfect definition of an ND. You got lucky and it happened under ideal conditions. So did I when I was surprised by a discharge at the range. Sure, I was preparing to fire. But the weapon went off before I intended it to. And that is not good at all. I was neglengent. A lesson I took to heart.

Non-trained shooters will argue with you until they are blue in the face about AD vs. ND. Like today's drivers they are willing to call just about any mount of neglence and accident. It demonstrates a sever lack of professionalism. Experienced shooters look down on them big time. It is not just about semantics, it is about accepting responsibility and not just dismissing it. It is about hold yourself and your fellow shooters to a high professional standard. It is about keeping yourself and those around you safe.

Joe
04-26-2011, 2:00 PM
Great info in this thread. I learned a lot about 1911's. Thanks to those who have constructively contributed.

rogervzv
04-26-2011, 2:03 PM
I don't think anyone uses hammer up, it's "down" or "back" generally.

+1

Yes. Or "down" versus "cocked."

Rekrab
04-26-2011, 2:04 PM
How do you survive something like what happened to the OP and still have a thumb? Seriously, I'd expect that slide to come back and slice you up pretty good.

Hopalong
04-26-2011, 2:05 PM
Why would you ever want to decock a 1911 with a round in the chamber?

This is the question that immediately popped into my head.

Not ,"don't do it", "shouldn't do it", "here's how to do it"

But WHY do it?

paul0660
04-26-2011, 2:11 PM
Just bought a 1911 and took it out to the range, trying to decock it the gun went off?

You don't DECOCK a 1911!

What did you think was going to happen? Hammer falls, 1911 goes bang.

It is completely obvious, even to a casual observer, that you don't understand the first thing about 1911's.

Sell your 1911, and get an AirSoft until you know how to run a gun.

I need your phone number because there are many things I am not sure of, Mr. PERFECT.

Shenaniguns
04-26-2011, 2:13 PM
Well said Tac city

J.D.Allen
04-26-2011, 2:27 PM
#1 - No such thing as an accidental discharge. This was a negligent discharge.

In the very few cases where the discharge is truly "accidental", it is due to a hardware failure.... but even that is likely preventable through proper care and maintenance.

#2 - To properly decock any gun that lacks a decocker, DON'T try to gently lower the hammer. That is an ND waiting to happen.
Put your thumb between the hammer and the firing pin. Pull the trigger. Release the trigger. Slowly move your thumb out while using your other hand to guide the hammer.

With the trigger released, most guns will not allow the hammer to fall past half-cocked, but even if it does, on most modern handguns, simply pushing the pin will not impact the primer. The pin is not long enough to go beyond flush on both ends of the action.


There are some situations in which I do this on my SAO auto. When I do I do it like this. I put my left pinkie in between the hammer and the firing pin. I the hold the hammer with my right thumb and depress the trigger ONLY for the small motion it takes the hammer to get past the sear. Then I release the trigger. At that point the FPB would prevent a ND even if my pinkie wasn't in the way.

Z.1
04-26-2011, 2:44 PM
Man, remind me to never admit to a mistake here. I wouldn't be surprised if the OP was gone for good! (due to some a-hole responses, not his handling of a 1911)

For what it's worth, thanks for sharing. I don't yet own a 1911 (someday...) and learned something today. At least he had it pointed safely down range. I like to research/get familiar with every new gun I buy before I even take it to the range, just so I'm comfortable.

scarville
04-26-2011, 3:25 PM
Man, remind me to never admit to a mistake here. I wouldn't be surprised if the OP was gone for good! (due to some a-hole responses, not his handling of a 1911)
I wouldn't worry too much about it. There are analists in every crowd. I had one person here tell me that I shouldn't get a gun for my wife because she was looking for a tool not a lifestyle.

I bought her a gun anyways...

MoBait
04-26-2011, 4:00 PM
I was showing my friend the function of a Glock, how to load the mags, chamber a round, clear jams, etc...I was about to show him how to field strip a Glock so the trigger needed to be pulled. I point the weapon towards the canyon behind my house and depress the trigger half way, I stop and decide to do a chamber check (if I have the slightest doubt a gun is unloaded, I check again). When I saw the cartridge inside the chamber I pooped my pants. My friend didn't realize what had happened so I just unloaded it and showed him how to strip it. My confidence was shaken for a few weeks after that.

stix213
04-26-2011, 4:03 PM
The venom in this thread toward the OP by some is disgusting

loosewreck
04-26-2011, 4:05 PM
^^^^ You think that's bad, check out what guys say to noobs over on M4carbine.net. Brutal, just brutal.

Man, remind me to never admit to a mistake here. I wouldn't be surprised if the OP was gone for good! (due to some a-hole responses, not his handling of a 1911)


There was actually a thread a while back were members "came out" about there NDs. I was one of them.

Z.1
04-26-2011, 5:18 PM
I was just kidding around. I'd rather people bash him and it never happens again than the alternative. Thats the only thing I don't like about shooting... never know what the other people are going to eff up...

I swear to god my brother-in-law and I saw a guy load a shell into a benelli pump-action BACKWARDS then point the thing everywhere trying to get it unstuck. That was our cue to leave!!!

leelaw
04-26-2011, 5:23 PM
I need your phone number because there are many things I am not sure of, Mr. PERFECT.

An objective analysis of the OP's ND clearly shows a lack of understanding of the 1911 platform. Any reason why you're making this a personal issue to divert from a potentially deadly safety failure? It's distracting.

cali_armz
04-26-2011, 5:26 PM
accidental discharges scare the h*** out of me. fortunately, never had it happen

locosway
04-26-2011, 5:56 PM
what I meant to say is that unless you do have a ccw, open carry in CA means that the firearm is unloaded, empty chamber without a magazine.

if you form the habit of dropping the hammer before holstering, hopefully the habit that goes with it - unload and show clear, also comes with it. If not, then I agree, dropping the hammer on a firearm that you havent checked is a bad idea.

Unload and show clear is fine, but dropping your hammer is stupid. What's the reason for this? The gun is empty, why should you drop the hammer? Keep the hammer back and the safety on. It makes no difference to the gun or operator if the gun is loaded or not, treat it the same.

I was going to ask for clarification on this too. That makes sense. I suppose there is a reason to carry with the hammer down: Open carry with the chamber is empty. Cocked and lock would be pointless if you have to chamber a round before you can fire. Of course, I still don't quite see the point in carrying unloaded anyway. (uh-oh, I hope this doesn't spur another debate :D)

No, there's no reason to carry a 1911 with the hammer down unless it was designed to be carried that way. It doesn't matter if the gun is loaded or not. Carry the gun in the manner it was designed to be carried, and train that way. If you start doing weird things like carrying hammer down, or dropping the hammer after you unload, then your chances for a ND go up exponentially.

Man, remind me to never admit to a mistake here. I wouldn't be surprised if the OP was gone for good! (due to some a-hole responses, not his handling of a 1911)

For what it's worth, thanks for sharing. I don't yet own a 1911 (someday...) and learned something today. At least he had it pointed safely down range. I like to research/get familiar with every new gun I buy before I even take it to the range, just so I'm comfortable.

Most of the arguing is over what's proper and what's not. The OP asked a question kinda like it was normal to happen from time to time. This is not the case, it's not normal. The only people who ND are those that get lazy and lose respect for their firearms.

Steve1968LS2
04-26-2011, 5:59 PM
Where's the picture of the dead horse and guys with sticks wailing on it????

wilafur
04-26-2011, 6:04 PM
:beatdeadhorse5:

Where's the picture of the dead horse and guys with sticks wailing on it????

Cokebottle
04-26-2011, 7:19 PM
He never indicated this after his first post.
I thought the same, but he did indeed ask about that.

Cokebottle
04-26-2011, 7:39 PM
Putting the whole 1911 issue aside, if you shoot guns a lot, there is one fact.

"There are those who have had a AD/ND and those who will!"

Fact?

I believe that even less than I believe that every motorcyclist has or will go down. I know many riders with a lifetime of riding who haven't gone down, and I know many shooters who have not had an ND in 30+ years.

The motorcyclist has to dodge other vehicles driven by people who are trying to kill him.
On the ND issue, that is one issue that the shooter has nearly 100% control over. The gun isn't trying to go off by itself.

cryoguy
04-26-2011, 8:06 PM
I had one with a 92fs at a shooting competition. It was the first time I had ever fired a pistol and we were doing speed reloads while condition 1. Well when I slammed the magazine in I was quickly reminded why you should never rest your finger on the trigger! I fired a round straight up in the air. Thankfully no one was hurt. It is a very dangerous lesson learned and I am sure the OP has learned his lesson. I am also sure that moment will stay with him/her forever. Thanks for sharing and educating others that have read this thread that do not own a1911 yet.

BillPear
04-26-2011, 8:23 PM
Don't think so. Someone else feel free to correct me, but we were trained that Condition One is hammer cocked, slide safety on, one in the chamber. Never any reason to decock a 1911 and no safe way to do it once a round is chambered. I never saw or heard of anyone carrying with the hammer down. No firing pin safety in any 1911 with which I am familiar although maybe there are some what with all the flavors out there.

Actually Kimbers, S&W's both have a firing pin block, as well as series 80 style guns, to aid in "Condition 2" carry, but I would agree condition 1 or 3, is the way to go, actually whats the point of conditon 2?

USMC 82-86
04-26-2011, 8:33 PM
We all are glad that you and everyone at the range were not hurt or dead. You must become extremely comfortable with the weapon system you choose to use. Safety is always at the top of everything you do regarding guns. We all make mistakes in life but as stated that was careless. When I was in the Marines we were issued our M16 and kept that rifle all through boot camp. We made aware of all the functions of that weapon to the point that we were sick of taking it apart and snapping in and dry firing. Snapping in is the process of getting into each firing position.

We did not approach the firing line for the first 3 days of our 2 weeks at the range. This was for our safety and the safety of our DI's. My point is we drilled our procedures for safety and marksmanship to the point that it was automatic before we fired a single shot with a live round. I know that is not exciting or something you that want to spend a lot of time doing. The payoff is however is a sound respect for the weapon and the lives around you. Take the time to practice with snap caps on all drills until you are sick of repeating them and then do it some more. Good luck in your training but remember the lane at your local range is no place experiment. Best wishes and train often but train correctly. Practice does not make perfect, it makes it permanent. Perfect practice makes perfect. Learn from this and make safety a top priority.

cali_armz
04-26-2011, 8:57 PM
one way of avoiding an accidental discharge is to not chamber rounds unless you are in a place where its safe and legal to fire shots

rogervzv
04-26-2011, 9:27 PM
Actually Kimbers, S&W's both have a firing pin block, as well as series 80 style guns, to aid in "Condition 2" carry, but I would agree condition 1 or 3, is the way to go, actually whats the point of conditon 2?

Good info. Thank you.

jm838
04-27-2011, 8:05 PM
Actually it wasa post 13
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=6273353&postcount=13

Huh, so he did. My bad. That's what I get for trying to craft an argument without re-reading the first part of the thread. Still though, I'm sure by now he has it figured out. At least I hope so. If nothing else, I learned a little bit about 1911's.

Shenaniguns
04-27-2011, 8:11 PM
I prefer not to assume when it comes to safety personally.

PandaLuv
04-27-2011, 8:14 PM
this thread is still being discussed?

Chontkleer
04-27-2011, 8:37 PM
this thread is still being discussed?

Exactly. 1911's are great to own and display with pride, but as long as Sigs exist why would anyone want to actually go out and shoot with anything else.
:D

Tzvia
04-27-2011, 8:49 PM
A Browning HP was my first semi-auto, a Star Firestar my second, and a Colt NM 45 was my third. I have since purchased other SAO/no-decocker weapons, and some that are DAO or DA/SA/decocker. I never use the decock function-it freaking scares me to drop the hammer on a loaded chamber so it's a non-feature to me. I used to check like 6 times that they were unloaded before lowering the hammer to put them away, but I realized that it was a future ND so stopped that practice and just leave them cocked and locked. The OP I think gets it (or should) at this point; use the weapon the way it was intended. If it doesn't have a decocker, don't decock it. If it does, don't forget the safety rules and decock it per the manufacturer's instructions and in a safe direction only. Thankfully the other rules were not broken and only surprise and shock were the outcome.

Maybe we are all beating a dead horse, but I've seen enough poor gun handling at the local range to want to throttle the next person that sweeps me with his gun's muzzle.

Chontkleer
04-27-2011, 11:20 PM
A Browning HP was my first semi-auto, a Star Firestar my second, and a Colt NM 45 was my third.

Were you in the Haganah and then Spanish Civil War?

DanDaDude102
04-27-2011, 11:23 PM
did your thumb make it out ok?

supraman925
04-28-2011, 5:20 AM
I had a 1911 that did the same thing, replace your hammer and sear, could be super worn out

clcolin81
04-28-2011, 8:44 AM
^^unlikely. OP said he was trying to manually decock the hammer.

MossbergMan
04-28-2011, 10:30 AM
Accidential= beyond your control. And yes some firings are accidential due to mechnical failures.
Unintentional= didn't want or mean it to happen at that time. Lots of unintentional firings happen because one or more of the safety rules are ignored or skipped.
Negeligent= disregarding standard operating procedures or safety rules and causing a firing.
I'd place this in the UN-intentional discharge catagory because, although it is not perferred, condition 2 is a condition of readiness for the 1911. Not being totally familiar with how your gun operates however does suggest an element of negilegence, but the operator failed in a procedural aspect resulting in an unintentional discharge(down range/safe direction). If the manual was read and comprehended I'm sure Condition 2 would have been explained and/or discouraged.
Regardless, I'm sure this was a "come to Jesus" moment for this shooter and I'm pretty sure this type of incident won't happen to him again.
There are 3 kinds of shooters: Those that have had these various types of discharges, those that are going to have them and those that have had them and lie about it. I've had mine and with enough time and enough exposure it will happen again. But by keeping the muzzle in a "Safe Direction" only property damage, no bodily injury will occur as it has been in the past.