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View Full Version : Bonded or non-bonded personal defence winchesters for 1911?


Onlyincali
04-24-2011, 8:50 PM
Looking at the Winchester Ranger ammo and see they have the RA45 T and RA45B. What does the bonded mean? Better/worse than the RA45t? For use in 1911 if it matters.


Thanks

E. Fudd
04-24-2011, 8:59 PM
Bonded means the copper jacket is bonded to the lead core. Supposed to improve expansion and terminal effectiveness by having less of the bullet fragment off in chunks and lose mass (e.g. pieces of the jacketed copper).

Fwiw, from what I've read on other forums, the improvement is more evident in the 9mm Ranger ammo, and less so in the .45 T-loads, in whatever gelatin comparison tests done.

Mute
04-24-2011, 9:05 PM
Bonded is supposed to have some slight performance improvement but I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

Onlyincali
04-24-2011, 9:08 PM
So if buying new, spend a buck or two extra on the bonded????

locosway
04-24-2011, 9:15 PM
Bonded is better. Always run bonded if you can.

Personally I run the Federal HST stuff.

Onlyincali
04-24-2011, 9:24 PM
Is federal HST bonded?


Why does almost everyone buy/praise the Winchester Ranger Talons but no one mentions the bonded rounds by Winchester.... What am I missing?

negolien
04-24-2011, 9:41 PM
Speer GDHPs.... that way no worries anymore about it lol.

E. Fudd
04-24-2011, 9:52 PM
Whichever one you pick, make sure it runs reliably in your 1911. Some 1911's prefer one brand/bullet profile over another.

I have a few finicky 1911's that don't like either Ranger T's or Gold Dots. For those, I have to run Golden Sabers, which has a more rounded profile for better feeding.

So try a smaller amount first before investing in a whole case...

locosway
04-24-2011, 10:09 PM
Is federal HST bonded?


Why does almost everyone buy/praise the Winchester Ranger Talons but no one mentions the bonded rounds by Winchester.... What am I missing?

Yes, the HST is bonded.

http://i53.tinypic.com/xbjok3.jpg

Onlyincali
04-24-2011, 10:10 PM
All others are out of the picture....

Its just between the RA45T and RA45B. Providing both run through the pistol and cost the same.....which one to get.

locosway
04-24-2011, 10:13 PM
The RA45B isn't listed on the Winchester site. Is it an older product?

Mickey D
04-24-2011, 10:36 PM
The RA45B isn't listed on the Winchester site. Is it an older product?

I believe it's listed as their Supreme Elite, PDX1 ammo.

I have shot both products into wet phone books (I know, not scientific). I liked the expansion properties and profile to the T series better, for my choice of SD carry. Just my opinion.

E. Fudd
04-24-2011, 10:45 PM
Fwiw, according to test results mentioned in another forum, the .45 Ranger bonded did show improved performance over the T version through denim and barrier tests.

Prices I've seen usually have the bonded more expensive than the older T-load.

If you can find them for the same price, then looks like bonded is the way to go...

E. Fudd
04-24-2011, 10:52 PM
The RA45B isn't listed on the Winchester site. Is it an older product?

No, it's fairly new and listed under their law enforcement ammo site.

They generally market Ranger ammo through their LE ammo dealer channel, although they can be found online (50 rd. boxes).

As mentioned, the civilian version is the PDX1 Supreme Elite (20 rd. boxes at near the same price)..., but at least it's available retail... I've even seen some at Walmart in the past... (the ones that still sell ammo)... :)