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Chontkleer
04-24-2011, 2:40 AM
Left pistol with family member for a couple of months for safe keeping. I took it back when I went to the range. Magazine in, cocked, click. Inspection, cocked, click. The hammer wasn't getting to within more than about a centimeter from the firing pin. Further inspection: the rear sight was about halfway out of its groove. Took it home, opened it up and looked at it further. I can see no reason why the hammer isn't working properly. It's as if some kind of safety's been activated. It's a SIG 232.

Any ideas?:wacko:

vincnet11
04-24-2011, 3:00 AM
Left pistol with family member for a couple of months for safe keeping. I took it back when I went to the range. Magazine in, cocked, click. Inspection, cocked, click. The hammer wasn't getting to within more than about a centimeter from the firing pin. Further inspection: the rear sight was about halfway out of its groove. Took it home, opened it up and looked at it further. I can see no reason why the hammer isn't working properly. It's as if some kind of safety's been activated. It's a SIG 232.

Any ideas?:wacko:Whatever it is they broke it, you should have left it to them in a locked container.

TheSteelCollector
04-24-2011, 3:09 AM
looks like someone didn't take good care of your gun. it usually takes a decent amount of force to drive a sight out of its dovetail. i would assume its been dropped a few times or abused. I would probably do a full field strip, inspect all parts and replace as needed something is tweaked or bent.

Mickey D
04-24-2011, 7:34 AM
looks like someone didn't take good care of your gun. it usually takes a decent amount of force to drive a sight out of its dovetail. i would assume its been dropped a few times or abused. I would probably do a full field strip, inspect all parts and replace as needed something is tweaked or bent.

^^ Then head slap the family member. :D

rareair
04-24-2011, 8:16 AM
Family member after being questioned- "Ummmmm no one touched it. It was that way when you left it"

Ranger20
04-24-2011, 8:28 AM
Family member after being questioned- "Ummmmm no one touched it. It was that way when you left it"

Bull Ship. At least you now confirmed you can't trust this family member since they LIED to your face about thier use of your handgun of all things. Scratch em off your Christmas list ;) and or have nothing to do with them till the fess up and tell the truth.. Being a liar expecially from family should have consequences.. I wonder what the heck they did with the gun to get it that way. did it appear to be fired?

Canucky
04-24-2011, 8:29 AM
Can you manually cock the hammer and release it with the decocker?

jermzzzzzzz
04-24-2011, 9:25 AM
Take it to a gunsmith if you have to, seek revenge!!!!!

MrOrange
04-24-2011, 10:17 AM
Family member after being questioned- "Ummmmm no one touched it. It was that way when you left it"

Bull Ship. At least you now confirmed you can't trust this family member since they LIED to your face about thier use of your handgun of all things. Scratch em off your Christmas list ;) and or have nothing to do with them till the fess up and tell the truth.. Being a liar expecially from family should have consequences.. I wonder what the heck they did with the gun to get it that way. did it appear to be fired?
That wasn't the OP.




As to, I'm surprised you didn't notice the rear sight when you did the transfer.

The obvious first thing to do is ask the family member what they did. As has been noted, it had to be serious, like using the thing for a hammer or deliberately taking it apart and goofing up the reassembly. If they deny any knowledge, then yeah give 'em the silent treatment! That'll learn 'em.

You said you opened it up; does that mean you field stripped it or took it all the way down? I checked the schematics at Brownells and didn't see anything obvious like a safety plunger or lever that would keep the hammer that far from the firing pin. I'd guess trigger bar, hammer strut/spring, or, more likely, something's up with the mag catch, since it bears on the bottom of the hammer spring and is exposed when the pistol's assembled.

If you're not comfortable doing the detail stripping, your only choice is to take it to a 'smith, whether or not your family member is willing to pay for it.

Chalk it up to experience.

Token nag: Magazine in, cocked, click. You know that inserting the mag and cocking the hammer doesn't get a round in the chamber, right?:rolleyes:

cj1026
04-24-2011, 10:21 AM
The hammer wasn't getting to within more than about a centimeter from the firing pin.

Any ideas?:wacko:

Thats the way the hammer is on all my Sigs. Everyone of them goes bang every time. Fix the sight and take it to the range. You'll be fine.

Bartin
04-24-2011, 10:51 AM
Thats the way the hammer is on all my Sigs. Everyone of them goes bang every time. Fix the sight and take it to the range. You'll be fine.
Agreed. Sig uses a rebounding hammer that brings the hammer off the pin after firing.

leelaw
04-24-2011, 10:59 AM
Um.. a rebounding hammer does "[get] to within more than about a centimeter [of] the firing pin" it simply rebounds back after striking. OP states the hammer never reaches the firing pin.

cj1026
04-24-2011, 11:08 AM
Um.. a rebounding hammer does "[get] to within more than about a centimeter [of] the firing pin" it simply rebounds back after striking. OP states the hammer never reaches the firing pin.

Have you ever watched the hammer fall on a Sig. Doesn't look like it ever gets to the pin but it does.
Hell my P220 looks like the hammer bounces when it's dropped and it still fires every time.

cali_armz
04-24-2011, 11:18 AM
Left pistol with family member for a couple of months for safe keeping. I took it back when I went to the range. Magazine in, cocked, click. Inspection, cocked, click. The hammer wasn't getting to within more than about a centimeter from the firing pin. Further inspection: the rear sight was about halfway out of its groove. Took it home, opened it up and looked at it further. I can see no reason why the hammer isn't working properly. It's as if some kind of safety's been activated. It's a SIG 232.

Any ideas?:wacko:

im really sorry to hear it man. maybe you could get it inspected by a gunsmith, and if it ends up costing you money to fix, send the bill directly to your irresponsible relative.

abusing and breaking someone else's possessions is just wrong

MrOrange
04-24-2011, 1:18 PM
Thats the way the hammer is on all my Sigs. Everyone of them goes bang every time. Fix the sight and take it to the range. You'll be fine.
He was at the range. The gun didn't go bang, which is why he posted.

Skunk2Racer
04-24-2011, 1:52 PM
That's why Forget family, You need to leave your guns with us your Fellow Calguns Family...:biggrinjester:

Chontkleer
04-24-2011, 2:24 PM
This place is more active than I thought. Thanks for the combined brain power. The person I left it with wasn't a gun person (so I thought) but maybe curiousity got the better of them or someone else got in there. It was in it's original hardcase, locked, but I left the key with him so that the lock and the key wouldn't get separated.

Only two gunsmiths I know of here in the LA area and both are so backed up that it would probably take them months to deal with it unless I paid a lot to expedite. Took it to the place I bought it and they kind of scratched their heads like me. The hammer only comes to where it rests normally. Wasn't clear on that... when you pull the trigger it stops short right there. Cock it and decock it, same thing. I opened it up as as far as I felt comfortable and could see absolutely nothing wrong with it mechanically. Talked to Sig and they said to send it in. So odd.. the thing is built like a tank. I can imagine that the sight might have got knocked sideways if it fell, but then again I've replaced rear sights myself and know how much force is usually required.

Chontkleer
04-24-2011, 2:27 PM
Now there's an idea. But I'll need your first-born as collateral. :rolleyes:

Chontkleer
04-24-2011, 2:29 PM
Canucky: Yes.

247Nino
04-24-2011, 2:36 PM
You got complacent and left it with family. You can't blame them only yourself because you trusted them. Get it to a gunsmith and take one for your one man team.

Next time take it with you or hide it somewhere else. hell bury it if you have to

duc748bip
04-24-2011, 2:45 PM
My P230, the trigger need to be all the way to the for the hammer to reach the firing pin. try it with an empty chamber of course.

leelaw
04-24-2011, 2:49 PM
Have you ever watched the hammer fall on a Sig. Doesn't look like it ever gets to the pin but it does.
Hell my P220 looks like the hammer bounces when it's dropped and it still fires every time.

Yes, I own a few of them and know how the hammer system works. If the OP is rpeorting that the hammer never touches the firing pin, then I'm going to go off of that, since it is significantly different than the rebound spring resetting it. Given that it goes "click" instead of "bang" I'm inclined to believe his claim.

rubber duckie
04-24-2011, 2:50 PM
why not take it all apart , including the slide. then go through and figure out if its the frame or the slide giving you issues.

Desert_Rat
04-24-2011, 2:59 PM
It takes a lot to muff up a Sig. I once dropped a loaded Sig onto the asphalt in a parking lot. It landed right on the hammer. There was even asphalt stuck into the grooves cut in the hammer. When I fired it next, no problems at all. Somebody must have really messed with it to get it into the condition described in the OP.

Munk
04-24-2011, 3:48 PM
For the hammer issue... maybe curiosity got the better of your family member, and they disassembled the gun, but couldn't reassemble properly.

If you're anywhere near rancho cucamunga, the Ammo bros has an on-site gunsmith who might help... i just don't know how backed up he is.

Fishslayer
04-24-2011, 6:08 PM
Ummmm... not familiar with that particular model, but is the safety off?

Had a very similar problem the first time we took the wife's Mosquito to the range. I'm not used to separate safety/decocker.

Kinda embarassing really...:o

Chontkleer
04-24-2011, 6:19 PM
why not take it all apart , including the slide. then go through and figure out if its the frame or the slide giving you issues.

Ja, probably will. If I need to end up sending it back to Sig, it won't matter if they get a bunch of parts or not I guess.

Chontkleer
04-24-2011, 6:21 PM
It takes a lot to muff up a Sig. I once dropped a loaded Sig onto the asphalt in a parking lot. It landed right on the hammer. There was even asphalt stuck into the grooves cut in the hammer. When I fired it next, no problems at all. Somebody must have really messed with it to get it into the condition described in the OP.

The other weird thing... there was no mark on the hammer at all or any indication that it had been dropped at all, so unless someone took very good care, or it's made of some kind of supersteel, it's like they took a brass tool and a hammer to it.

Chontkleer
04-24-2011, 6:23 PM
For the hammer issue... maybe curiosity got the better of your family member, and they disassembled the gun, but couldn't reassemble properly.

If you're anywhere near rancho cucamunga, the Ammo bros has an on-site gunsmith who might help... i just don't know how backed up he is.

Thanks Munk. I'll call them. Better than waiting 1 mo. to forever to get it back from Sig. Was thinking that they did take it apart. That's the only reason I can think of. When I watch the trigger and hammer mechanisms work, I can't see any problem. It'll probably turn out to be something simple like a girlfriend left an earing in there or something.

Chontkleer
04-24-2011, 6:24 PM
Ummmm... not familiar with that particular model, but is the safety off?

Had a very similar problem the first time we took the wife's Mosquito to the range. I'm not used to separate safety/decocker.

Kinda embarassing really...:o

It doesn't have an external safety. Everything nicely integrated. 300 pound double action.

ro442173
04-24-2011, 6:28 PM
Family member is a member of the Brady Campaign :shrug::TFH:

Can't buy anything here
04-24-2011, 6:30 PM
I'd put on a tuxedo, line up your family in the study, and question them one by one Agatha Christie style...the one who did it will eventually crack.

goldduster
04-24-2011, 6:39 PM
Call Sig and get advice. Perhaps set up a tuneup/action enhancement pkg at same time.
I sent mine to them, had it back in a week and was delighted with their work!

tonelar
04-24-2011, 6:47 PM
Are you snure its tour Sig? Maybe the family member has a friend with a malfunctioming Sig.

ck66
04-24-2011, 7:04 PM
Are you snure its tour Sig? Maybe the family member has a friend with a malfunctioming Sig.

My thoughts too. Cross reference the serial number against your records.

tonelar
04-24-2011, 8:00 PM
Check that your trigger bar spring is in the right notches.

If it is assembled wrong, itll appear to function, but will only let your trigger act like a decocker.

GWbiker
04-24-2011, 8:28 PM
My guess: the SIG was used in an armed robbery by the family member and was dropped by accident during hasty getaway.

Bottom line..."NEVER" leave an unlocked/unattended gun with a family member. Next time rent a bank safe deposit box.

Voo
04-24-2011, 9:01 PM
I vote to send it back to SIG.. But if it were me, I'd take it apart and make sure it was correctly assembled. There's not much you can get wrong when putting it back together. With a few exceptions, it all goes back in correctly or it doesn't reassemble.

I would check to make sure the hammer strut was correctly positioned. I've never worked on a P232 (but have worked on the 220, 225, 226, 229 since they're functionally the same) so I dont' know what happens when the hammer strut is not installed correctly on the P232 but the gun will reassemble fully on the other P series I mentioned.

The strut is like a leg bone with a saddle at that top. It's easy to misalign the saddle and the hammer pivot pin as you're sort of inserting it blindly into the groove of the hammer... You only need to take off the grip panels to remove the hammer strut assembly. It's very easy to do and pretty simple to remove. See if reinstalling it helps.

I'd also do the following tests to help determine exactly what part of the gun is acting up.

Test 1.
Cock the hammer fully back. With your thumb holding the hammer from snapping forward, press the trigger all the way back and hold it there. SLOWLY ride the hammer down to it's rest position. Do not release pressure from the trigger as this will negate the test. With your finger still depressing the trigger, PUSH THE HAMMER FORWARD. Normally the hammer would be able to touch the back of the firing pin. This is just a test to see if the hammer goes forward. Decocking the gun doesn't allow the hammer to go forward as it's part of the safety 'system'. Only by squeezing the trigger can you allow the hammer to have a complete range of motion.

If you can do this, you can potentially eliminate that it's a hammer issue.

Test 2.
Get a pencil and place the eraser side down the barrel. Tilt the gun so that it's pointing straight up at the ceiling.. Make sure pencil is somewhat fat, or that you have the erase over the breech hole so. Fire the gun in SA mode. If the pencil flies up.. you're good.. If it doesnt', something is blocking the firing pin from going forward. Stop running this test. You can damage the firing pin if it's hitting the firing pin block.

If the pencil doesn't "jump", take the slide off the gun and remove the barrel/recoil spring assembly. You'll only need to examine the slide. Get 2 small punches or anything really (pens/pencils/chopsticks). On the underside of the slide, you'll find a small circular cut with a semi-circular "plunger" type button. This is the "firing pin safety". When you press the trigger, this becomes deactivated and allows the firing pin to move freely. Check to see that this is working. Having a 3rd hand or putting the slide into a vice is a nice thing right about now. While pushing the safety in, get another small stick and press on the firing pin itself, trying to push it forward. If you push on the firing pin, you'll eventually see it poke out from the breechface. If it doesnt, you've potentially discovered the problem area..


ps.
If you're not sure what parts I'm referring to specifically- here's a schematic from Brownells on the P232
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=0/sid=835/schematicsdetail/P232

Chontkleer
04-25-2011, 12:23 AM
Voo, I followed your instructions. Test 1: Couldn't get hammer to go all the way forward. Test 2: No pencil fly. Removed slide and tested firing pin safety -- seemed to work fine; firing pin popped out when safety depressed (what pushed it in normally?)

Disassembled grips, took out the hammer strut assembly, replaced it. Tried hammer test again and was able to move it all the way forward while holding trigger. Did pencil test and pencil flew up. Great! Put grips back on, repeated tests. No good. Heigh ho, it's off to Sig we go.

rero360
04-25-2011, 12:30 AM
If you're not comfortable doing the detail stripping, your only choice is to take it to a 'smith, whether or not your family member is willing to pay for it.

I'm sorry, but if a person isn't comfortable about detail stripping their firearms after owning it for a period of time then they really should consider selling it and buying something they can detail strip.

Maybe I'm just big in personal responsibility and being able to be self-reliant, there are few things that can happen to my guns that I would need to take them to a smith for, and all that involves actual machining as I don't own the equipment.

Voo
04-25-2011, 1:05 AM
... firing pin popped out when safety depressed (what pushed it in normally?)
To see it, you have to remove the slide from the gun. It's a very TINY nub that sticks up when the trigger is pressed (as if you were shooting). Do Test 1 and as you squeeze the trigger (DONT LET THE HAMMER SNAP FORWARD!!) look towards the back of the gun where the rear right rail is, you'll see a tiny metal 'arm' stick up. Let the hammer go to rest and if you slowly work the trigger, you'll see it pop up and down. (I'm guessing cause I've never seen the internals of a P232) Also, dont' mistake it for the nub that's on the trigger bar... That's for the reset...

This is part 34 in the brownell's schematic.

Disassembled grips, took out the hammer strut assembly, replaced it. Tried hammer test again and was able to move it all the way forward while holding trigger. Did pencil test and pencil flew up. Great! Put grips back on, repeated tests. No good. Heigh ho, it's off to Sig we go.

Oh wow! That's a good sign actually.. In reality, your gun functions except for when you put your grips back on.. That leads me to believe that its' probably an improperly installed trigger bar 'return' spring or possibly something with the decocker?

As one of the other's have posted.. The trigger bar spring can get misaligned and if you put it into the wrong notch, it can do funky things.. I say "funky" because I have no experience with the P232. I do know that with some grips, depending on the grip and spring used, my other P22x' Sigs do not work "quite" right.

Check those out before sending it back to Sig!

Chontkleer
04-25-2011, 2:29 AM
Will do. Thanks so much Voo. Great info and suggestions (from the wiseguys in the peanut gallery too :42:

sigfan91
04-25-2011, 11:28 AM
Voo, I followed your instructions. Test 1: Couldn't get hammer to go all the way forward. Test 2: No pencil fly. Removed slide and tested firing pin safety -- seemed to work fine; firing pin popped out when safety depressed (what pushed it in normally?)

Disassembled grips, took out the hammer strut assembly, replaced it. Tried hammer test again and was able to move it all the way forward while holding trigger. Did pencil test and pencil flew up. Great! Put grips back on, repeated tests. No good. Heigh ho, it's off to Sig we go.

Can you post some pictures of the right side of the gun with the grip panel off?

We might be able to see what was going on in the grip.

The War Wagon
04-25-2011, 11:31 AM
If you clock your relative over the head with it just right, you might be able to knock the sight BACK into position! http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-happy009.gif

tonelar
04-25-2011, 11:35 AM
I'm sorry, but if a person isn't comfortable about detail stripping their firearms after owning it for a period of time then they really should consider selling it and buying something they can detail strip.

Maybe I'm just big in personal responsibility and being able to be self-reliant, there are few things that can happen to my guns that I would need to take them to a smith for, and all that involves actual machining as I don't own the equipment.

^i used to subscribe to this way of thinking in regards to guns, cars and motorcycles. however, lots of people just arent mechanically inclined.

by this logic 80% of shooters should just use slingshots and spears.

Back OT

OP,
Is it a hogue grip? I guess I can see one dragging on your bar if really overtightened. Or (most likely) you have your trigger bar spring in wrong.
http://www.topgunsupply.com/images/T/IMGP1484.jpg
If its in wrong (or backwards), itll work ok without the grip panel installed. However, the coil will get caught by the grip.

Did you shoot it before leaving it with your "relative"? Or, was the last thing you did before dropping it off a nice thorough detail strip and cleaning?

Chontkleer
04-25-2011, 1:16 PM
I will. Have to figure out how to post pics here first.

Chontkleer
04-25-2011, 1:16 PM
Here's the problem. It's my dad!

Chontkleer
04-25-2011, 1:20 PM
tonelar: Good point. Maybe it's a grip thing. I'll put the original grips back on. What I have on their is some wood grips. I shot the thing a few times a year for about 5 years, never took it apart more than for basic cleaning (all the time with the wood grips). Then dropped it off with my dad in good working condition. Nobody had access to it -- it was in the safe. Picked it up, took it to the range, noticed the sights, tried to shoot with it and no bang.

tonelar
04-25-2011, 1:34 PM
Here's the problem. It's my dad!

Aha! He adjusted your sights, right? Haha

Prolly thought he'd surprise with a detailed cleaning and lube.

rogervzv
04-25-2011, 5:44 PM
Left pistol with family member for a couple of months for safe keeping. I took it back when I went to the range. Magazine in, cocked, click. Inspection, cocked, click. The hammer wasn't getting to within more than about a centimeter from the firing pin. Further inspection: the rear sight was about halfway out of its groove. Took it home, opened it up and looked at it further. I can see no reason why the hammer isn't working properly. It's as if some kind of safety's been activated. It's a SIG 232.

Any ideas?:wacko:

Well, obviously the next time you leave a firearm with someone, put it in a locked case and keep the key yourself. :chris:

Chontkleer
04-26-2011, 1:32 AM
Can you post some pictures of the right side of the gun with the grip panel off?

We might be able to see what was going on in the grip.

http://www.hunt101.com/data/549/medium/1367.jpg

http://www.hunt101.com/data/549/medium/270.jpg

c483125117
04-26-2011, 2:22 AM
I'm sorry, but if a person isn't comfortable about detail stripping their firearms after owning it for a period of time then they really should consider selling it and buying something they can detail strip.

Maybe I'm just big in personal responsibility and being able to be self-reliant, there are few things that can happen to my guns that I would need to take them to a smith for, and all that involves actual machining as I don't own the equipment.

Sorry to threadjack but this is the exact type of elitist attitude that turns off most new gun owners to forums like these. I doubt you apply this principle to everything in your life, otherwise there'd be something essential you'd be living without. However, I may be wrong and you are just way more handy than the rest of us.

I understand the point you're trying to make, especially if you subscribe to the SHTF notion, but some people want guns other than for such purposes. All I'm asking is that you be a little less "elitist" - there's enough of this type of attitude behind the counter of gun stores already.

Voo
04-26-2011, 9:26 AM
looking at your pics, everything looks fine from here.. It's likely the grip that pressing in on something, but its' odd that it's been working all this time wiht them and then suddenly stopped..

If I was "there" and could inspect it, it'd probably be easy to spot, but unless you find someone competent, your best bet is to send it off to SIG ARMS- or Scott Folk at APEX Tactical. But thats not going to be under warranty, so you're looking at out of pocket expense if something needs to be fixed.

rivraton
04-26-2011, 10:21 AM
Is the hammer strut installed backwards?

Chontkleer
04-26-2011, 12:35 PM
Ok, mystery mostly solved. It was the wood grip interfering with the motion of the hammer strut spring. I "milled" it out a little and problem solved. Why it didn't create a problem before I have no idea. Bizarre. The spring itself looks like it's in fine condition. It's as if the old good grip was replaced with a bad new one. So now the real work begins -- watching for subtle microexpressions when I tell him what the problem was. Thanks again for all the input.

Chontkleer
04-26-2011, 12:37 PM
@rivraton: It was. But I whacked it a bit with a hammer and it seemed to slide ok after that.

Chontkleer
04-26-2011, 1:06 PM
^i
Is it a hogue grip? I guess I can see one dragging on your bar if really overtightened. Or (most likely) you have your trigger bar spring in wrong.

You called it. Grip/spring issue. I'm pretty sure I don't have the spring in wrong. (?) One end has a double bend in it, which is what I have in the frame of the gun and the other goes into the hammer strut.

RAMCHARGER
04-26-2011, 2:22 PM
If you clock your relative over the head with it just right, you might be able to knock the sight BACK into position! http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-happy009.gif

:) ^^^^^^ :)

Fate
04-26-2011, 2:28 PM
Here's my best Hercule Poirot: :detective:
Dad dropped it, broke the grip, misaligned the rear sight. Bought replacement grip that didn't fit. Didn't think you'd notice.

:whistling:

whipkiller
04-26-2011, 4:10 PM
I'm sorry, but if a person isn't comfortable about detail stripping their firearms after owning it for a period of time then they really should consider selling it and buying something they can detail strip.

Maybe I'm just big in personal responsibility and being able to be self-reliant, there are few things that can happen to my guns that I would need to take them to a smith for, and all that involves actual machining as I don't own the equipment.

What exactly, in your infinite wisdom, do you deem this "period of time" to be?

I have to wonder, are you doing the superiority dance as you type this?

Moto4Fun
04-26-2011, 5:28 PM
might as well jump on the bash RERO wagon!

Come on man! Really? We should all be able to detail strip our guns, otherwise what; no dice? Turn them in to the authorities? I don't know what different levels of complexity there are in different guns, but I feel it is either something you can do or it is something you shouldn't even mess with. Many/most/half of the world people wouldn't have a clue as to where to begin. Maybe guns should just come in kits and we should put them together ourselves.

ok, whatever dude!

Chontkleer
04-26-2011, 6:36 PM
I can appreciate what RERO was saying. I wasn't that concerned with being able to strip it down completely because it was working, didn't use it much, etc... but like with cars, over the next decade or three, it's probably going to be prudent to learn how how to do things in more detail ourselves. Probably wouldn't have been able to figure this out as fast if someone had flipped the big internet switch to off, and the calguns crew wasn't there. But now I know a little more and might be able to help the next guy/gal.

pyromensch
04-26-2011, 9:46 PM
does the butt end, still work like a hammer? then use to hammer that "pin-head" relative

Chontkleer
04-27-2011, 12:44 AM
Here's my best Hercule Poirot: :detective:
Dad dropped it, broke the grip, misaligned the rear sight. Bought replacement grip that didn't fit. Didn't think you'd notice.

:whistling:

That sounds about right.

chefjef
04-27-2011, 12:50 AM
first thing that comes to mind with wood in a safe, is expanding or contracting depending on the humidity or dryness in the safe.

Chontkleer
04-27-2011, 2:56 PM
first thing that comes to mind with wood in a safe, is expanding or contracting depending on the humidity or dryness in the safe.

Possible bingo there.