View Full Version : Overview of different ways to build California legal rifles
11-20-2006, 2:06 PM
Overview of different ways to build California legal rifles
While the Brady Bunch and their pet politicians are fairly clever in legally limiting our firearm freedoms, us Californian gun-nuts are far more clever. Below is a collection of inventions created by fellow CalGunners to comply with the letter of the law while thumbing our nose at the gunbanning spirit that birthed them.
For reference here are the laws we are dealing with:
Anything not listed under PC§12276 is “off-list”.
All off-list firearms must conform to PC§12276.1 aka SB23 aka “the evil features ban”.
Here is the portion of SB23 relating to rifles:
12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to
accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action
of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.
(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine
with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
(3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length
of less than 30 inches.
This is the link to the current DOJ regulations that define the terms above:
There are four general ways to make an off-list rifle SB23 compliant:
1. Manual action + a detachable magazine + evil features
2. Rimfire simi-automatic + detachable magazine + evil features
3. Centerfire simi-automatic + fixed 10-round or less magazine + evil features
4. Centerfire simi-automatic + detachable magazine + zero evil features.
California specific inventions designed to make our rifles SB23 compliant tend to focus on the last two cases. Some are magazine fixing devices that then allow you to have evil features, others are ways to have a functional rifle that lacks evil features.
Inventors who post should post a brief description of their invention, at least one picture, info on how someone might obtain your invention, and a link to the CalGuns thread(s) that discuss their invention in more detail. By posting in this thread, inventors are agreeing to having their posted pictures and words used as a base for a gunwiki article.
11-20-2006, 2:07 PM
I’ll start off with my grip: the kydex grip.
This grip is designed to be used in a non-evil-features build as a way to have a fully functional, ergonomic replacement for pistol grips that is easy to build yourself. While the above example is for an AR type rifle, this idea can be adapted to any rifle with a pistol grip. The knife in the grip is mainly there to thumb my nose at the DOJ and legislature for the “evil features” silliness. It can be omitted entirely or replaced with anything else that would fit in that space.
I recommend that people build their own grip, but I am willing to do custom jobs if you are unable or unwilling to do it yourself. PM me for details.
Here is the thread where I introduced this grip and detailed how to build your own:
11-20-2006, 2:56 PM
Don't forget to remove those flash hider.
11-20-2006, 4:23 PM
OK I'll play.
HK type rifle magazine lockout, must be used in conjunction with 10 round magazine. Now patent pending.
11-20-2006, 4:30 PM
OK I'll play.
HK type rifle magazine lockout, must be used in conjunction with 10 round magazine. Now patent pending.
Don't forget that that HK lock already has a Gunwiki link (thanks again for the article, Rorschach): http://thegunwiki.com/Gunwiki/ProcFixG3Mag
Also, there's a little overview of some of the methods already present, but it doesn't even pretend to be conclusive (which is what you're shooting for here):
11-20-2006, 4:31 PM
For those interested in history, here are the earliest threads I could find that discuss the magazine fixing option:
Now all you folks that have come up with far more refined solutions need to post them here to show everyone how far we’ve come ;)
11-20-2006, 4:57 PM
I'll play as well...
10/32 x 3/4 allen screw and 3/16 metal. No cutting up your precious CAAK.:D
PM for ordering info.
11-20-2006, 11:33 PM
Here's how it's done.
First the supplies.
I bought a one gallon kit of polyurethane mix, called "Monster Cast". It'll make 2 gallons actually. I opted for the black mix, so I didn't have to add anything to it to get it to that color. Here's where I purchased it from:
MOTION PICTURE F/X COMPANY
123 S. BURBANK, CA 91502
I had to also buy a urethane parfilm spraycan to coat whatever I'm pouring the mix onto, so that it does not bond with the surface, and some molding clay as well. To use it, you measure out equal amounts of each liquid, then stir them together vigoriously for 30 seconds, pour them into the stock and they will combine to become a solid. Here is everything you need, including the mix and parfilm, a scale, stir sticks, clay, plastic cups, and a hair dryer (used to soften the clay). CAUTION: This material is an irritant. Do not inhale it, get it on your skin, or work with it in an enclosed space. Take the neccessary precautions.
Preparing the stock.
It's a two piece design. I started with the molding clay and filled in 2/3rds of the stock to make the first piece, a small filler to be used as a plug so that I could pour the mix directly into the stock. Pack the clay from the left side as flat as possible, and spray the parfilm so that the piece can easily come out, then pour. It takes about 5 minutes for it to completely harden. Here's the finished part.
I then screwed the stock screw back into the top of the stock and plugged the bottom of the hole with a little clay. Next I used a drill bit and dremel cutter to cut a hole into it and countersink a black wood screw just long enough to be completely covered by the polyurethane mix. I also cut and countersunk two additional wood screws near the end of the buttstock. (Tip: when cutting into the wood with the dremel, apply oil to it to keep the burning to a minimum) Then the small piece is secured to the stock with tape and more clay is molded around the sling attachment to create a dam to hold the mix. Like this.
Pouring the mix. CAUTION: This material is an irritant. Do not inhale it, get it on your skin, or work with it in an enclosed space.
I decided to pour the liquid in two parts, so addtional screws were inserted into the stock to hold both parts together just in case they did not bond to each other. Next I spray the parfilm onto the surface where I'm going to pour the mixture. I poured the first batch and waited for it to harden but not completely set so that it has a better chance of bonding with the second coat. Then I poured the second batch, being watchful of the rising level of the mix. Once done I let it set and remove the clay. The finished product is a very solid filler attached to the stock in three places to make it secure. And there you have it. A non-thumbhole (none-hole) stock.
Click on the photo to view the video.
11-20-2006, 11:41 PM
11-20-2006, 11:53 PM
As posted up above, I make the "MonsterMan Grip" for AR & AK type rifles. When used with no "evil" features, it allows the rifle to be held like a regular rifle stock. It doesn't allow a "pistol style grasp".
When using the AK, use with a standard stock. If you use it with a fixed underfolder stock, you must modify it to not let the hand in the gap. If the hand is able to grasp the grip with the hand above a unmodified grip, the web of the hand is placed below the top exposed portion of the trigger. Please use a standard stock.
They are made from a plastic type material. They are black all the way through. No paint.
I plan on making something for the FAL rifle in the new year. We'll see.
You can buy them from Ten Percent Firearms (http://www.tenpercentfirearms.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=5&zenid=975a92ada863b70fda00f99a1a6bf095) or Cold War Shooters (http://www.coldwarshooters.net/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=23&zenid=dd515cc1d5c421a1c1ec13d92df3605e). I also have heard that Ammo Bros has them from time to time.
As always, play safe and have fun.
11-21-2006, 3:06 PM
Here is my contribution to the gun community...
SRB's or Spring Retaining Bracket, is a small device that was designed to only hold the selector switch spring in place. No pistol grip whatsoever means no chance of building an AW.
Check out this link for pictures, videos, and more information.
11-21-2006, 5:52 PM
I am working on a mag lock that would require you to remove the upper to get the mag out without making any permanent modifications to either reciever. I am not ready to post all of the details because I haven’t decided where to go with the idea yet i.e. if its worth marketing. A big part of me says that just seeing another way to stick DOJ in the eye with the OLL’s and helping the gun community would be better payment than the green stuff. I talked it over in detail with Ivan a couple of weeks ago and he thought it was a good idea. I am going to try to find the time to make a prototype during Christmas break and will let you all know how it turns out if it works. If I were better with cad software I would just draw one up and order it… but I will have to go the old welders, hacksaws, and grinders rout.
11-21-2006, 6:51 PM
And here is the thread where Dump1567 introduced the first pictures of the oar stock:
Dump, come in and take a bow.
The CA Project was born a few years before this thread, but hear is some early pictures of the design.
11-22-2006, 9:42 AM
This one is a OLL AK receiver with the trigger group relocated to the saiga position with the Saiga transfer bar, trigger, receiver plate, trigger guard, and Saiga stock
Another way to fix the mag into the OLL AK receiver, hex head bolt with a nut inside the mag release
11-22-2006, 9:58 AM
"Tagged" for later. I'll post pics of my Franken-Saiga as soon as the Aluma-Hyde cures (i.e., I'll be posting in two weeks :( )
11-25-2006, 9:32 AM
Here are a few of my stocks:
First one is an unfinished FullSize
Next is a Midsize in Dark Walnut stain...
Finally, Two small versions..one with the wood behind the buffer tube and one without
11-27-2006, 10:13 AM
Hey guys, I want to play too.
The Prince50 Kit is quite possibly the most prolific design in AR style mag locks commercialy. It is a patent pending design released in early January of this year.
It was designed of course to comply with the fixed mag portion of California law.
With this kit you can have all the other standard "evil" features. Of course Grenade launchers, Silencers, Full auto capability, short barrels, and overall length are not okay.
You can have flash hiders, pistol grips, and folding stocks.
DOJ is currently trying to rewrite the regs to stop this mag lock style. If approved it will meet with legal resistance, and may take awhile to get posted as a legal regulation change.
It is a simple concept that requires only my mag lock button, and a set screw. My kit comes with full instructions, 2 set screws and a list of 8 levels of locking security.
It installs in a few seconds and is sold by Tenpercent Firearms, ColdWar Shooters, San Jose Gun Exchange, and countless other smaller gun shops in the state.
Here is a Pic
KKF A2 Fake Flash Suppressor (FFS) by Kurt's Kustom Firearms
My "Shark fin"
01-17-2007, 3:04 PM
Here's my contribution (thanks paradox for the heads-up) You can check this link for my other post
But basically this grip is designed to be used for the Magpul PRS stock.
It has a thumbrest (right/left). And is comfortable to hold either prone, bench or offhand.
(Although there is some debate to whether the PRS stock is considered a "collapsible" stock or not.):rolleyes:
I'm not selling this grip, but if you want one you can pay for the materials and I can make one for you.
PM me if you want one, and I'll give you the price for the materials (not too expensive).
I also have another design that I've done just the other night.Will post pics of it soon.
01-17-2007, 3:13 PM
I made a tab that connects to the follower and extends out the bottom of the mag to which you can pull down (10rd. C-Products mag)
You can load your OLL from the ejection port
And at ceasefires or if you want to take your ammo out, just rack the charging handle
I didn't have any FTE's or FTF's with this modification. And I don't have to break the rifle open. It's easy to load and if you mess up, pull down the tab and the ammo drops into the mag.
Ugly as hell but effective :D
Will post detailed pics of the inside soon.
01-17-2007, 4:04 PM
For a no features detachable mag build!
01-17-2007, 4:53 PM
Here is my contribution to the OLL revolution I call it the MAG-LOCK®.
I invented this device mid 2000 after reading the regulations about detachable magazines.
Here are some pics for those that haven't been exposed to my MAG-LOCK®.
We will be producing more of these in a few weeks from now in both the original design which requires the Mag catch to be shortened. and a longer version which does not require the mag catch to be shortened but does protrude from the receiver just a bit. The MAG-LOCK® will be available in both stainless steel and in blackened stainless steel.
And another item that is still in development this new item will be produced in a few months.
Santa Cruz Armory
01-17-2007, 6:15 PM
Well here's a couple things that I use, the mag lock was my idea, the "higgmo plate" was not.
One is a mag lock for the AK style rifle. It consists of a bolt that is inserted through the trigger gaurd and tightens against the mag release and keeps the mag from being released without the use of a tool.
The other is tentatively called the "Higgmo plate". It covers the thumbhole portion of an AK style stock and does not allow a "pistol style grasp".
Toolbox X's U-15 stock. http://www.californiarifles.com/
01-25-2007, 9:39 PM
Kydex grip with thumb-stud:
05-16-2007, 8:46 PM
CA Code of Regulations, Title 11, Division 5, Chapter 39, Department of Justice Regulations for Assault Weapons and Large Capacity Magazines.....
ARTICLE 2. DEFINITIONS OF TERMS USED TO IDENTIFY ASSAULT WEAPONS The following definitions apply to terms used in the identification of assault weapons pursuant to Penal Code section 12276.1:....
(d) "pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon" means a grip that allows for a pistol style grasp in which the web of the trigger hand (between the thumb and index finger) can be placed below the top of the exposed portion of the trigger while firing....
Went to TAP plastics and bought some Magic Sculpt. Basically removed part of the stock so my hand could be forced above the trigger line. Filled in the stock, before it hardened, molded it to allow my thumb pad to rest in a normal grip.
Still need to finish it up a bit. Final sanding and some black paint. The blue is a masonry hex nut anchor that I used to replace the craptastic slot screws that came with the sport stock of my Saiga. Worked like a charm.
Magic Sculpt is the bomb and is really tuff, so I don't expect anything but goodness from it when I test fire it. Hopefully, I can get out next weekend and take it for a spin.
Anyone have a picture of the Tumor grip?
02-11-2010, 6:28 PM
What would this be considered - a muzzle brake or a flash hider??? If its a flash hider then I'M SCREWED!!!
And would a stock on a Sterling 9mm carbine be considered a "folding or collapsable" stock???
05-09-2010, 4:53 PM
Kydex grip with thumb-stud:
this is really smart. i like it, good job:clap::party::cool2:
02-27-2011, 10:14 PM
sorry for the necropost but i thought this thread was very interesting, these things will be museum pieces someday
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