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Jlomb436
04-23-2011, 8:26 PM
So first time I went to the range with my new M&P and my own ammo. Had 1000 rounds of WWB and 250 of Federal, and they said that I couldn't use any of it. Just Winclean.

That's really a bummer. They said it must be lead and acid free, and forgive my ignorance, but I assumed all ammo with brass was lead free? Anyway, I noticed a few other sin the range that we're actually using WWB, so I don't know if the guy was just trying to sell me 50 rounds for $18 bucks or what. Thoughts/ Suggestions?

I have an outdoor range here in town, I'm gonna try there and I assume they don't care what ammo I use (they sort of hinted at that).

HK4113
04-23-2011, 8:41 PM
Where do you live, and what range was it?

Oceanbob
04-23-2011, 8:44 PM
So first time I went to the range with my new M&P and my own ammo. Had 1000 rounds of WWB and 250 of Federal, and they said that I couldn't use any of it. Just Winclean.

That's really a bummer. They said it must be lead and acid free, and forgive my ignorance, but I assumed all ammo with brass was lead free? Anyway, I noticed a few other sin the range that we're actually using WWB, so I don't know if the guy was just trying to sell me 50 rounds for $18 bucks or what. Thoughts/ Suggestions?

I have an outdoor range here in town, I'm gonna try there and I assume they don't care what ammo I use (they sort of hinted at that).

Focus on telling us your location and the name of the range.

sequoia_nomad
04-23-2011, 8:45 PM
The brass case has nothing to do with lead. Anything lead free will be labeled as such (or as being "green") And will also cost significantly more than good ol wwb.

p7m8jg
04-23-2011, 8:45 PM
He wanted to sell you ammo. Period. Only a range that didn't want any business would require non-lead or sealed ammo. Most don't.

Shawn L
04-23-2011, 8:45 PM
Wow I hope you left, I wouldn't let them scam me like that.

Tell us what range please.

Jlomb436
04-23-2011, 8:50 PM
This was at Shooters Paradise in Oxnard, closest indoor range for a long while. Guy was actually really nice about it though, but I showed him that I had WWB and Federal and said I couldn't use either. Did I get conned or is this common for most indoor ranges?

HK4113
04-23-2011, 8:53 PM
This was at Shooters Paradise in Oxnard, closest indoor range for a long while. Guy was actually really nice about it though, but I showed him that I had WWB and Federal and said I couldn't use either. Did I get conned or is this common for most indoor ranges?

No you didnt get conned. Read the range rules on their website, it clearly states this on there under the ammo section. This rule seems kind of odd to me, but their range, their rules. I would personally go to another range.

Cokebottle
04-23-2011, 8:55 PM
This was at Shooters Paradise in Oxnard, closest indoor range for a long while. Guy was actually really nice about it though, but I showed him that I had WWB and Federal and said I couldn't use either. Did I get conned or is this common for most indoor ranges?
Far from common.... quite uncommon, other than most ranges require jacketed rounds.

The only other range with restrictions I've ever been to is Dave's in Berdoo won't allow Wolf.

Jlomb436
04-23-2011, 9:05 PM
Well thats a bummer that it's the rules, but it is the rules. Guess I will just have to go elsewhere, because WINclean isn't exceptionally cheap or anything.

Do outdoor ranges have any restrictions on ammo typically?

Synergy
04-23-2011, 9:08 PM
Some ranges will not allow lead (non-plated) since plain lead smokes a lot more from the lube used.
CLEAN AMMO POLICY - CENTER-FIRE PISTOL ONLY!
Pistol ammunition brought into the range must be of the clean primer type.

Clean primer ammo is defined by non-leaded and/or non-mercuric primers.

It must be in readily identifiable factory boxes that display this information.

(i.e., Winchester = "WinCLEAN", Remington/UMC = "Leadless", Federal = "Toxic Metal Free Primers" )

Other brands are available.

The policy only applies to center-fire pistol calibers, where clean primer ammunition is available.

This policy does not apply to rim-fire, rifle or shotgun ammunition!

Please feel free to call us at 805 486-1177 for more detailed information.

WTF? I say its a con to sell high priced ammo.

Jlomb436
04-23-2011, 9:15 PM
Some ranges will not allow lead (non-plated) since plain lead smokes a lot more from the lube used.


WTF? I say its a con to sell high priced ammo.


I don't mind their rules, but then to charge 18 bucks for 50 rounds of reloaded ammo. A box of Winclean is cheaper then that... Oh well. As I mentioned, I'll just go to my local outdoor range, but as a new gun owner, semi-disappointing.

I swear, I saw at least 1 other person using WWB and it was not Winclean. Regular ammo smokes a lot more then the lead free as mentioned?

HK4113
04-23-2011, 9:17 PM
Well thats a bummer that it's the rules, but it is the rules. Guess I will just have to go elsewhere, because WINclean isn't exceptionally cheap or anything.

Do outdoor ranges have any restrictions on ammo typically?

Ranges usually have some sort of ammo restriction, but not as strict as what shooters paradise has. Your best bet is to call around and ask so that you are not surprised.

Usually indoor ranges will allow any full metel jacketed rounds that are not wolf made.

HCz
04-23-2011, 9:22 PM
Their business, their rules.

For some odd reasons, some ranges force those 'clean' ammo. The idea is that the base of bullet has exposed lead and when it burns up, it will release harmful stuff in the air. I don't know much about it, but those 'clean' ammos have the whole bullet part covered.

It can also be used to have some extra income when someone unsuspecting/uninformed walks in and has to buy their ammo.

Either way, don't get too caught up with it, just go to other places that has no problems with such ammo.

Jlomb436
04-23-2011, 9:29 PM
Their business, their rules.

For some odd reasons, some ranges force those 'clean' ammo. The idea is that the base of bullet has exposed lead and when it burns up, it will release harmful stuff in the air. I don't know much about it, but those 'clean' ammos have the whole bullet part covered.

It can also be used to have some extra income when someone unsuspecting/uninformed walks in and has to buy their ammo.

Either way, don't get too caught up with it, just go to other places that has no problems with such ammo.

Will do. Sad part is, the outdoor range is onyl 20 minutes away from me here, but shooter sis 50 minutes. And the next one south of that, I don't know. I don't live in the boonies, just clearly no high demand for indoors ranges where I live.

fiddletown
04-23-2011, 9:42 PM
...I assumed all ammo with brass was lead free? ...Standard primers use a compound containing lead, and the usual FMJ bullets have exposed lead at the base of the bullet (the jacket doesn't go all the way around). These are sources of a small amount of lead contamination at a range.

For the shooter, the exposure to lead is pretty minimal -- unless you're there for hours and hours. But folks who work at indoor ranges do take precautions (e. g., protective suits and respirators when cleaning the range).

Jlomb436
04-23-2011, 9:46 PM
Good stuff. Now, I just need to work on my shooting. I think our outdoor range only has a 25 yard target for pistols, which is pretty far my shooting skills at the moment.

Fishslayer
04-23-2011, 9:55 PM
Their business, their rules.

For some odd reasons, some ranges force those 'clean' ammo. The idea is that the base of bullet has exposed lead and when it burns up, it will release harmful stuff in the air. I don't know much about it, but those 'clean' ammos have the whole bullet part covered.

It can also be used to have some extra income when someone unsuspecting/uninformed walks in and has to buy their ammo.

Either way, don't get too caught up with it, just go to other places that has no problems with such ammo.

An indoor range can allow "dirty" ammo if they install proper ventilation. I believe it a People's Republik thing.

Funny about that Federal NT stuff. Shooter's Paradise says it has "Toxic metal free primers" but to my knowlege (and I've looked) the small primered .45ACP (:mad:) has no such markings. The only way to tell is the small primer & 2 dots in the headstamp... and it comes in a slightly smaller box.

cali_armz
04-23-2011, 9:57 PM
ammunition must be lead free?

what kind of s*** is that? thats almost like a freeway not allowing gasoline powered vehicles

Fishslayer
04-23-2011, 10:06 PM
ammunition must be lead free?

what kind of s*** is that? thats almost like a freeway not allowing gasoline powered vehicles

Exposed lead. That's the idea behind plated bullets. Most (not all) FMJ leave the base exposed.

funnyman3000
04-23-2011, 10:32 PM
We need a running list of ranges in SoCal/NorCal and sticky it.

marcus_bervus
04-23-2011, 11:03 PM
cross out this range from calgun list...

Lumpia is sarap!
04-23-2011, 11:04 PM
I'm thinking that range has high levels of lead exposure and they're trying to minimize the health risk to their patrons. A range going green, that's a first.

Target19
04-23-2011, 11:14 PM
Doesn't seem like a "Shooters Paradise" to me.
Winclean also comes in white boxes.

quig
04-23-2011, 11:15 PM
Their business, their rules.

For some odd reasons, some ranges force those 'clean' ammo. The idea is that the base of bullet has exposed lead and when it burns up, it will release harmful stuff in the air. I don't know much about it, but those 'clean' ammos have the whole bullet part covered.

It can also be used to have some extra income when someone unsuspecting/uninformed walks in and has to buy their ammo.

Either way, don't get too caught up with it, just go to other places that has no problems with such ammo.

This.

For a while, they would charge $5 per box of you wanted to shoot your ammo that was dirty. This was there compromise to offset the cost for increased ventilation. I would never pay this, but there are other ways.

The irony is that they allow "wolf" and other dirty rifle ammo. They cannot justify charging extra because they don't have any reloads available in anything but handgun. I love shooting my 7.62x39 and .223 here for close range rifle shooting.

Dragon
04-23-2011, 11:52 PM
So i guess you cant shoot rimfire there !

BadIndianSwamp
04-24-2011, 7:20 AM
Like has been said above, every place has their own set of rules. I go to two indoor ranges. One near home won't let you shoot any bullet with hollow points or partial jacketing...full lead round nose is fine or fmj, tmj bullets are ok too.
The other place is near LAX, and they don't allow you to keep your own revolver brass even if you bring your own ammo. That one annoys the he'll out of me, but their place...their rules.

Can't buy anything here
04-24-2011, 7:28 AM
I run the mobile range for our dept every month....it's an enclosed 50 foot trailer..we only allow lead free non toxic ammo...when I shoot at the outdoor Angeles range, the only restriction on ammo is no steel jacketed rounds...and this is mostly an issue on the rifle range. That is why they have magnets on the poles for the staff to check the rounds...

VictorFranko
04-24-2011, 7:36 AM
In the past, Shooter's has charged a set fee if you bring your own non-clean ammo. It was $10.
They have a pretty good air filtration system and I guess the filters are quite expensive.
Since I do not shoot indoors any longer, I don't know their new rules.

Can't buy anything here
04-24-2011, 7:40 AM
So many damn rules

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whadmRePr_8

zdragon
04-24-2011, 7:43 AM
The other place is near LAX, and they don't allow you to keep your own revolver brass even if you bring your own ammo.

please tell me you are just pulling my leg.....
what if i brought 10 fully loaded revolvers and and i don't eject the empties. Do they want to keep my guns?:mad:

VictorFranko
04-24-2011, 7:44 AM
Let me help you there :p

whadmRePr_8

Bill Steele
04-24-2011, 8:38 AM
Conventional primers emit all sorts of bad things like Lead Styphnate, Antimony Sulfide, Barium, etc. In addition, bullets with exposed lead like FMJ (the base is exposed) and other plain lead bullets can have some of the lead vaporize during the combustion process.

Ranges that allow only "lead free" or "green" ammo are trying to cut down on the bad stuff in the air and coated all over anything you touch. As posted already, it is probably not a big deal for the shooter, at least grown up shooters, as your exposure is pretty limited. For the people that work at ranges and are exposed constantly, it can be a pretty big deal with high blood lead levels and other cancer risks.

A lot of the nanny state stuff comes from the revelation that something is actually bad for us and needs to be eliminated. I don't think they will be bringing leaded gas back any time soon either. Not saying I like it, but for sure it is a trend that is here to stay.

kermit315
04-24-2011, 8:46 AM
I knew what range it was when he mentioned winclean. I used to have to deal with that too, when I was stationed at Mugu.

I dont remember that place being that bad when I was there, but I have been hearing more and more lately that makes it seem like its going downhill very fast.

atomicwedgy
04-24-2011, 8:55 AM
its a good place. yeah its expensive to shoot, but there has to be a reason behind it. doubt its to get rich. They are a nice group of guys there. Very helpful.

Can't buy anything here
04-24-2011, 9:04 AM
Let me help you there :p

whadmRePr_8

How do you do that? I clicked on youtube and put the link between the brackerts but it didn't work...:o

shooterdude
04-24-2011, 9:05 AM
How do you do that? I clicked on youtube and put the link between the brackerts but it didn't work...:o

You only put the video ID in the brackets NOT the entire link.

Can't buy anything here
04-24-2011, 9:48 AM
Thanks...:)

WWDHD?
04-24-2011, 10:18 AM
Havn't seen any restrictions like this yet here in the east, south & peninsula parts of the bay area. Target Masters (where I shoot most often) bans any of the aluminum or steel cased ammo. I don't think their air filtration system works very well (if at all) so I'm suprised they have not gone this way yet.
The only other odd ammo rules I know of around these parts is Jackson Arms only allows 00 shotgun rounds and Target Masters only allows birdshot on their range. Best to call before you go if your not sure.

WARDOG
04-24-2011, 10:19 AM
The indoor shooting range in my area pays their rent with cowboy action shooting which is mostly lead. They would not survive without it.
They have a lot of ventilation, and was built around 1997.
It is right next to WIWALS ammunition warehouse.
If the range stopped allowing standard ammo it would have to close its doors.
No doubt the Cal EPA, CARB, and many other acronymal entities are requiring heavy regulations.
Problem is that you should practice with what your defensive load is. Changing ammo to practice with different cartridges seems like a waste since it is unlikely what you carry in your guns on a regular basis.
Luckily I can shoot in my back yard, or a set outdoor only a mile away.
I feel for you city dwellers.

Khanan
04-24-2011, 10:23 AM
My one experience at Shooter's Paradise:

I walk in and look around. I ask to take the HSC test. They ask are you buying. I say not right now, still looking. Probably want to try a few of your rentals first. They say if you aren't buying, we aren't giving you an HSC.

I thanked them and left never to return. That is not the way a customer should be treated. I will never walk into that place again. You don't get a second chance on making a first impression.

techshot
04-24-2011, 10:28 AM
Next time buy a bag of ammo and keep your stuff in your personal bag. Some of the guys there don't give a crap what you shoot. Some of them are snobs about it. All in all it is there range, and there rules. I never see them in there checking ammo once you start shooting though. So its up to you if you go next time. Ventura area blows for shooting, anyone else know a range thats closer or better? Without having to go to Angeles Range or Cherry Creek?

obpwankel
04-24-2011, 10:55 AM
Anyone has experience on la puente firing range? I have yet taken my new g19 to the range. heres the rules regarding ammunitions; ALL FIREARMS AND AMMUNITIONS BROUGHT INTO THIS RANGE WILL BE INSPECTED AND APPROVED FOR USE BY THE RANGE OFFICER. NO LEAD, STEEL, AND STEEL CASINGS ALLOWED.

I am located in west covina, i am new to this, so please help :o other ranges close by?

sorry, don't mean to derailed OP.

ThePhantomGT
04-24-2011, 11:44 AM
Shooting ranges close to Ventura County (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=shooting+range&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hl=en&sll=34.218616,-118.89267&sspn=0.700641,1.41037&rq=1&ev=zo&split=1&hq=shooting+range&hnear=&ll=34.27878,-118.686676&spn=0.70014,1.41037&z=10)

C, A and F are the ranges I'm referring to.

C - Firing Line (http://firingline.net/)(Indoor)
"8. NO STEEL JACKET OR STEEL CORE AMMUNITION. NO SEMI-JACKETED AMMUNITION. ALL AMMUNITION MUST BE FULL METAL JACKET OR LEAD. NO WOLF AMMUNITION ALLOWED."

9. NO CENTERFIRE RIFLES. NO RIFLE CALIBER HANDGUNS. NO BLACK POWDER."

A - The Target Range (http://www.thetargetrange.com/?gclid=COPZ057mtagCFRphgwodWWuhAA)(Indoor)
"NO SEMI-JACKETED SOFT OR HOLLOW POINTS WILL BE PERMITTED.

NO AMMUNTION WITH OTHER THAN BRASS CASES WILL BE PERMITTED"

F - Angeles Shooting Range (http://www.angelesranges.com/)(Outdoor)
"10.. No steel core, steel jacketed ,bi-metal rounds (bullets that stick to a magnet), armor-piercing or tracer ammunition are allowed on the range. All ammunition is subject to inspection by range "

DrScorpio
04-24-2011, 11:57 AM
Anyone has experience on la puente firing range? I have yet taken my new g19 to the range. heres the rules regarding ammunitions; ALL FIREARMS AND AMMUNITIONS BROUGHT INTO THIS RANGE WILL BE INSPECTED AND APPROVED FOR USE BY THE RANGE OFFICER. NO LEAD, STEEL, AND STEEL CASINGS ALLOWED.

I am located in west covina, i am new to this, so please help :o other ranges close by?

sorry, don't mean to derailed OP.

Im a member at the La Puente Shooting Range. That rule is pretty standard for most indoor shooting ranges. So long you bring brass cased ammo, you should be fine. Ive brought WWB, Remmington UMC megapacks, blazer brass, no problems there. They will probably open the box to inspect it though. If the box looks like its been open, then theyll run the magnet on it.

BadIndianSwamp
04-24-2011, 12:08 PM
please tell me you are just pulling my leg.....
what if i brought 10 fully loaded revolvers and and i don't eject the empties. Do they want to keep my guns?:mad:

They won't check your guns, but I have gotten into one stern argument with them about it. They say: "If you bring it here it belongs to us. That is the rule."
So I usually shoot about 150 rounds and leave maybe 20-30 in the tray so they can keep THEIR brass!

jonzer77
04-24-2011, 12:15 PM
Shooters paradise is a joke, they charge $60 for a ppt, their guns are way over priced. They get away with it since they are the only place in town I guess. My brother lives down there and we wanted to go shooting but I was out of 223 so we stopped in there to grab some ammo. While I was there my brother wanted to hold their desert eagle and he asked if the guy if it shot 44 magnum(Yes I know its a silly question) and the guy said "Is there another kind of 44 ammo?" I heard there was another gun shop re opening in the area.

Munk
04-24-2011, 12:27 PM
If I go to a range, and they demand to keep my brass, they'll have a bit of a struggle trying to take it from me.

Shooters paradise is a joke, they charge $60 for a ppt, their guns are way over priced. They get away with it since they are the only place in town I guess. My brother lives down there and we wanted to go shooting but I was out of 223 so we stopped in there to grab some ammo. While I was there my brother wanted to hold their desert eagle and he asked if the guy if it shot 44 magnum(Yes I know No its not a silly question) and the guy said "Is there another kind of 44 ammo?" I heard there was another gun shop re opening in the area.

The answer to his question is a definite yes. There's also .44 special and a couple other less common rounds. You should have also smacked him over the head with a box of .50AE for being a *****.

Cokebottle
04-24-2011, 12:36 PM
Im a member at the La Puente Shooting Range. That rule is pretty standard for most indoor shooting ranges.
I've never once had my gun or ammo inspected at any range.
I had two ranges ask what I was shooting 5 years ago, and at the time the only unacceptable answer was "Wolf", but I've never had anyone physically examine my gun or ammo.

Cokebottle
04-24-2011, 12:40 PM
Shooters paradise is a joke, they charge $60 for a ppt,
If you know this for an absolute fact, report them to the DOJ.

$35 is the legal limit.
The only things that can increase that is if the buyer doesn't have a valid HSC for a handgun purchase ($25 more) and if the seller doesn't provide a lock.

These thieves need to be shut down. It is a MISDEMEANOR to charge more than $35 for a PPT.
I understand the attitude that "we need all of the FFLs we can get in California".... trust me, if Paradise is shut down by the DOJ, someone else will open a shop.

Jlomb436
04-24-2011, 12:52 PM
I probably just won't go back after that, however, I'm up in Santa Barbara, so the only thing we have is Winchester Gun Club (haven't been yet). I was hoping to utilize an indoor range for now, but I don't really have a choice. I would just shoot my WWB at shooters, but I don't want any problems and it's just not worth it. I have a feeling people do though, and I can't imagine them checking ammo there.

techshot
04-24-2011, 1:08 PM
If you know this for an absolute fact, report them to the DOJ.

$35 is the legal limit.
The only things that can increase that is if the buyer doesn't have a valid HSC for a handgun purchase ($25 more) and if the seller doesn't provide a lock.

These thieves need to be shut down. It is a MISDEMEANOR to charge more than $35 for a PPT.
I understand the attitude that "we need all of the FFLs we can get in California".... trust me, if Paradise is shut down by the DOJ, someone else will open a shop.

I think its 35$ per person in a PPT, which would be 70$ max. 60$ is actually cheaper then Uncle Pauls and Blue Line Ammo out here. unless my logic is flawed and it may be, then I apologize.

Cokebottle
04-24-2011, 1:19 PM
I think its 35$ per person in a PPT, which would be 70$ max. 60$ is actually cheaper then Uncle Pauls and Blue Line Ammo out here. unless my logic is flawed and it may be, then I apologize.
Keep in mind there is a difference between a PPT and an FFL transfer.
If you buy a gun and have it shipped to the FFL, they can charge whatever they want (Turner's charges $125) plus $25 DROS.
PC12082(a) A person shall complete any sale, loan, or transfer of a firearm through a person licensed pursuant to Section 12071 in accordance with this section in order to comply with subdivision (d) of Section 12072. The seller or transferor or the person loaning the firearm shall deliver the firearm to the dealer who shall retain possession of that firearm. The dealer shall then deliver the firearm to the purchaser or transferee or the person being loaned the firearm, if it is not prohibited, in accordance with subdivision (c) of Section 12072. If the dealer cannot legally deliver the firearm to the purchaser or transferee or the person being loaned the firearm, the dealer shall forthwith, without waiting for the conclusion of the waiting period described in Sections 12071 and 12072, return the firearm to the transferor or seller or the person loaning the firearm. The dealer shall not return the firearm to the seller or transferor or the person loaning the firearm when to do so would constitute a violation of subdivision (a) of Section 12072. If the dealer cannot legally return the firearm to the transferor or seller or the person loaning the firearm, then the dealer shall forthwith deliver the firearm to the sheriff of the county or the chief of police or other head of a municipal police department of any city or city and county who shall then dispose of the firearm in the manner provided by Sections 12028 and 12032. The purchaser or transferee or person being loaned the firearm may be required by the dealer to pay a fee not to exceed ten dollars ($10) per firearm, and no other fee may be charged by the dealer for a sale, loan, or transfer of a firearm conducted pursuant to this section, except for the applicable fees that may be charged pursuant to Sections 12076, 12076.5, and 12088.9 and forwarded to the Department of Justice, and the fees set forth in Section 12805. Nothing in these provisions shall prevent a dealer from charging a smaller fee. The dealer may not charge any additional fees.
$25 DROS plus $10 per firearm.
If I sell you 5 guns, they all go on one DROS, and the maximum transfer fee that the FFL may legally charge is $25+$50 or $75.

techshot
04-24-2011, 1:27 PM
$25 DROS plus $10 per firearm.
If I sell you 5 guns, they all go on one DROS, and the maximum transfer fee that the FFL may legally charge is $25+$50 or $75.

So it would be 75$ total or 75$ per person?

biker777
04-24-2011, 1:30 PM
I will loan you some empty Winclean boxes. just put your WWB in the Winclean boxes..and you are good to go!:rolleyes:

Cokebottle
04-24-2011, 1:34 PM
So it would be 75$ total or 75$ per person?
Total.

But ignore the $75... that would be the maximum for the transfer of FIVE guns (either handguns or rifles).

PPT transfer of ONE gun may be NO MORE than $35 TOTAL.

The law actually specifies that the "buyer or transferee" may be charged, but in practice, it doesn't matter. The seller can agree to pay the $35 transfer fee as part of negotiations.

techshot
04-24-2011, 1:36 PM
Total.

But ignore the $75... that would be the maximum for the transfer of FIVE guns (either handguns or rifles).

PPT transfer of ONE gun may be NO MORE than $35 TOTAL.

The law actually specifies that the "buyer or transferee" may be charged, but in practice, it doesn't matter. The seller can agree to pay the $35 transfer fee as part of negotiations.

I get ya, thats really good to know. Thanks for the info.

iareConfusE
04-24-2011, 1:47 PM
Like has been said above, every place has their own set of rules. I go to two indoor ranges. One near home won't let you shoot any bullet with hollow points or partial jacketing...full lead round nose is fine or fmj, tmj bullets are ok too.
The other place is near LAX, and they don't allow you to keep your own revolver brass even if you bring your own ammo. That one annoys the he'll out of me, but their place...their rules.

You've got to be kidding me, right? How can they actually prevent you from keeping what is lawfully yours? I can't imagine someone watching overhead making sure that I dump my cylinders on the floor for them to steal my brass. F that.

Jlomb436
04-24-2011, 4:23 PM
You've got to be kidding me, right? How can they actually prevent you from keeping what is lawfully yours? I can't imagine someone watching overhead making sure that I dump my cylinders on the floor for them to steal my brass. F that.

Excuse my ignorance, only have been shooting twice recently, but doesn't the brass just drop to the floor regardless? How do you guys keep your brass?

Jlomb436
04-24-2011, 4:23 PM
I will loan you some empty Winclean boxes. just put your WWB in the Winclean boxes..and you are good to go!:rolleyes:

Doesn't non "clean" ammo smoke a lot more? Wouldn't it be obvious shooting or no? Again, new to firearms here :cool2:

iareConfusE
04-24-2011, 4:30 PM
Excuse my ignorance, only have been shooting twice recently, but doesn't the brass just drop to the floor regardless? How do you guys keep your brass?

Only if you're shooting autos.... If you're shooting a revolver, they don't have extractors, and they don't cycle any brass out. You just push them out into your hand on onto your shooting bench and save them.

Even shooting autos, the brass should fall in your general vicinity, so you should be able to just take a few steps and pick them up. I usually pick up brass after every other magazine. Gives my arms and my eyes a break from shooting, and I get to take back my brass before unknowing customers sweep them away from me. I also usually tell people around me that I'll be picking up my brass, and I'll also ask if the're saving theirs, so I don't look like I'm stealing brass.

jonzer77
04-24-2011, 4:42 PM
If you know this for an absolute fact, report them to the DOJ.

$35 is the legal limit.
The only things that can increase that is if the buyer doesn't have a valid HSC for a handgun purchase ($25 more) and if the seller doesn't provide a lock.

These thieves need to be shut down. It is a MISDEMEANOR to charge more than $35 for a PPT.
I understand the attitude that "we need all of the FFLs we can get in California".... trust me, if Paradise is shut down by the DOJ, someone else will open a shop.

I did, and there is another posting where a guy called the DOJ on him as well. Dont know what the result was but I have no problem calling the DOJ.

Jlomb436
04-24-2011, 4:44 PM
Only if you're shooting autos.... If you're shooting a revolver, they don't have extractors, and they don't cycle any brass out.

Even shooting autos, the brass should fall in your general vicinity, so you should be able to just take a few steps and pick them up. I usually pick up brass after every other magazine. Gives my arms and my eyes a break from shooting, and I get to take back my brass before unknowing customers sweep them away from me. I also usually tell people around me that I'll be picking up my brass, and I'll also ask if the're saving theirs, so I don't look like I'm stealing brass.

Thanks, for whatever reason, I just assume people are always talking about auto's, so my fault there. Thanks for the info and tips.

Fishslayer
04-24-2011, 5:52 PM
Excuse my ignorance, only have been shooting twice recently, but doesn't the brass just drop to the floor regardless? How do you guys keep your brass?

With my revolvers I dump the brass in my hand.

With bottom feeders ya gotta chase it down. I always try to get a lane next to a wall on my right. I'm old & lazy. ;)


I would drive a pretty good distance before patronizing a range that wanted to keep my brass. Gouging greedy thieving A-holes IMO.

Cali-Shooter
04-24-2011, 6:04 PM
That sounds like a range that you might not want to shoot at anymore. I know that I wouldn't, there are tons of indoor ranges that I know of that allow brass cased lead anything handgun ammo to be shot there.

scarville
04-24-2011, 6:15 PM
Anyone has experience on la puente firing range? I have yet taken my new g19 to the range. heres the rules regarding ammunitions; ALL FIREARMS AND AMMUNITIONS BROUGHT INTO THIS RANGE WILL BE INSPECTED AND APPROVED FOR USE BY THE RANGE OFFICER. NO LEAD, STEEL, AND STEEL CASINGS ALLOWED.

I am located in west covina, i am new to this, so please help :o other ranges close by?

sorry, don't mean to derailed OP.
I used to go to La Puente Firing Range but I didn't care much for it. Now I go to Magnum Range in Rancho Cucamonga for indoor shooting. Both are about the same distance for me and I like Magnum Range better. Their restriction are basically no steel bullets, steel cases or hollow points. I've never had a problem there with Federal JSP, FMJ, Speer TMJ or handloads using Berrys plated bullets.

vietcious
04-25-2011, 1:41 AM
Anyone has experience on la puente firing range? I have yet taken my new g19 to the range. heres the rules regarding ammunitions; ALL FIREARMS AND AMMUNITIONS BROUGHT INTO THIS RANGE WILL BE INSPECTED AND APPROVED FOR USE BY THE RANGE OFFICER. NO LEAD, STEEL, AND STEEL CASINGS ALLOWED.

I am located in west covina, i am new to this, so please help :o other ranges close by?

sorry, don't mean to derailed OP.

I went there once...they lectured me for having (transported) a loaded mag and told me it was 5 years per round. :confused:

Munk
04-25-2011, 9:02 AM
I went there once...they lectured me for having (transported) a loaded mag and told me it was 5 years per round. :confused:

Ahahahaahaahahahaha. too funny. How did you respond to their unneccessary and false nannying?

Modimo
04-25-2011, 9:16 AM
It is unfortunate the lack of decent ranges in VC. Shooters Paradise, while it is their business, their rules, bends some, like PPT (as mentioned). The charge far more than allowed by law ($35).

Their firearms are overpriced, and their leadfree ammo restrictions are a bit aggravating. It is the only semi-local place I can shoot my steel-cased magnetic AK ammo (the only positive).

The fact of the matter is though, they are going to continue all of the above as long as they don't get reported (PPT overcharge) and people continue to patron their business. I much prefer going to Angeles whenever I have a choice.

I do have to say I miss the days when their was a range in Simi and Agoura...

negolien
04-25-2011, 9:57 AM
I never go to any range where I MUST buy ammo from them. Sorry but I just can't afford it and there's ranges out there where I can shoot basically anything I want to just as close. It's their loss imo /shrug.

johnny_22
04-25-2011, 10:08 AM
I never go to any range where I MUST buy ammo from them. Sorry but I just can't afford it and there's ranges out there where I can shoot basically anything I want to just as close. It's their loss imo /shrug.


Just buy, via mail order the correct lead-free primer (NOT 100% lead free) ammunition:

Winchester = "WinCLEAN", Remington/UMC = "Leadless", Federal = "Toxic Metal Free Primers" are the examples they give. This is not the $40/box "NT" or "Balisticlean"

When I shot at Targetmasters a lot, I would use the lead-free primers to try to keep my lungs somewhat clear. Now that I shoot at Reed's more, I don't worry as much.

vietcious
04-25-2011, 10:08 AM
Ahahahaahaahahahaha. too funny. How did you respond to their unneccessary and false nannying?

This was a few years back when I was less confident about the laws...

I was going to cite the CHP's website, but then the employee turned to his boss and said "aint that right?"

The boss looked up from what he was doing and said "yup"

I'm not gonna lie, I felt ganged up on and since they were so confident, I started to doubt myself, folded and shrugged it off. I know better now and if the opportunity comes up again, I feel responsible to stop this nonsense.

evidens83
04-25-2011, 10:09 AM
Screw them go elsewhere. The just wanted you to buy their overpriced reloads eff that!

Modimo
04-25-2011, 10:34 AM
Just buy, via mail order the correct lead-free primer (NOT 100% lead free) ammunition:

Winchester = "WinCLEAN", Remington/UMC = "Leadless", Federal = "Toxic Metal Free Primers" are the examples they give. This is not the $40/box "NT" or "Balisticlean"

When I shot at Targetmasters a lot, I would use the lead-free primers to try to keep my lungs somewhat clear. Now that I shoot at Reed's more, I don't worry as much.

It's funny, cause I recently called Shooters Paradise and asked them if I reloaded my ammo with clean burning primers, if it would be cool. Their response: "No reloads of any kind are permitted on our range!". One word: Wow....

Gryff
04-25-2011, 10:40 AM
A range going green, that's a first.

Actually not. When Clint Smith moved his Thunder Ranch facility from Texas to Oregon, he went with a green ammo-only policy. The primary reason is that he and his wife life on the property, and that he teaches every single class they hold up there.

waho
04-25-2011, 11:14 AM
It's funny, cause I recently called Shooters Paradise and asked them if I reloaded my ammo with clean burning primers, if it would be cool. Their response: "No reloads of any kind are permitted on our range!". One word: Wow....

Yet they sell reloads, of course when I asked about that I was told their reloader knows what he's doing. So until my membership runs out I'll only be shooting 22's there. To bad that after Davis took over the Agoura range he let it turn into such a pig sty, before then it was a fairly decent place.

ZX-10R
04-25-2011, 11:18 AM
I was in my Ventura office and was going to take my engineer shooting...They told me this rule and I said OK...Thank you. I do not go to ranges that have any ammo rules. Not worth my time or business. That is my opinion but at the end of the day...I PAY I PLAY.