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RANGER295
11-20-2006, 11:19 AM
I just told my FFL to order me a Savage 12FVSS in .308. I want to replace the stock and was thinking of the Choate Ultimate Sniper Stock. I really like the McMillan A-4 and A-5 but they are just out of the price range right now. I need something $200 or less. Has anyone ever used the Choate stock? Does anyone have any other ideas?

A second question. I have heard that you should break the barrel in a certain way. None of my rifles up to this point have been ones where I have worried about this (used, mil surp, cheap plinking guns…). Can anyone tell me how I should go about this or point me in the right direction to read up on it? Thanks all.

ohsmily
11-20-2006, 11:23 AM
I just told my FFL to order me a Savage 12FVSS in .308. I want to replace the stock and was thinking of the Choate Ultimate Sniper Stock. I really like the McMillan A-4 and A-5 but they are just out of the price range right now. I need something $200 or less. Has anyone ever used the Choate stock? Does anyone have any other ideas?

A second question. I have heard that you should break the barrel in a certain way. None of my rifles up to this point have been ones where I have worried about this (used, mil surp, cheap plinking guns…). Can anyone tell me how I should go about this or point me in the right direction to read up on it? Thanks all.

First of all, don't bother breaking the barrel in. Just shoot it and clean it as you normally would but with HIGH QUALITY cleaning components like a nice 1-piece cleaning rod and bore guide.

The Choate USS is OK. It is a low cost option for those who want a fairly rigid platform for their rifle. It has a full length bedding block and has some weight to it (which is a good thing). HS Precision is a better choice in my opinion (if they do indeed make a stock for the Savage.)

RANGER295
11-20-2006, 11:43 AM
Looked at the HS and liked what I saw, it looks a lot like the McMillan but they don’t make it for Savage.:(

ocabj
11-20-2006, 11:48 AM
Just stick with the factory stock until you save money for the McMillan. The A-5 is worth the money. My 10FP when from factory, to the Bell & Carlson Duramaxx, to the McMillan A-5 in less than a year. I could have just skipped the Duramaxx altogether.

http://ocabj.net/photos/firearms_personal/10fpcamo_640_01.jpg

fairfaxjim
11-20-2006, 11:57 AM
I have a Savage 10FLP - left handed 10FP with the Choate Ultimate Varmint stock on it. It works well for me. I would recommend that if you do want to go with the Choate stock - do a hands on comparison between the Ultimate Varmint and Ultimate Sniper stocks - I found the Sniper version just too big, bulgy and clunky. Personal preference, but worth noting.

I did nothing special to break in the barrel, just frequent cleaning, and it shoots very well.

RANGER295
11-20-2006, 12:01 PM
Should I get the 10FP instead? My FFL probably hasn’t sent the order yet.

ocabj
11-20-2006, 12:24 PM
Personally, I'd get a 12BVSS or one of the new 12 Varminter models. I love the laminate stock on those guns. Underrated and overlooked. Great for both bench and prone shooting. That stock is far better than the Choate.

When I get around to it, I'm going to get a 12BVSS or 12 Varminter in a single shot action, sell off the barrel, and rebarrel in either 6BR or 6.5x55 Swede.

damon1272
11-20-2006, 6:05 PM
I would recommend the Savage Sharp Shooters stocks. The guy specializes in Savage and has quality on line with Mcmillin for a lower price. I had their stock and trigger set up on my last .223 heavy barrel Savage. I was really impressed with the workmanship and you can get their stocks in a thumb hole also.

Mute
11-20-2006, 6:14 PM
I recommend saving for the McMillan. There aren't that many decent stocks in the $200 dollar range. The Choate is ok. It's heavy and bulky. Stock fit is very subjective, but a stock that can be adjusted for comb height and length of pull will go a long way in making the rifle comfortable to shoot.

Fjold
11-20-2006, 6:20 PM
I would recommend the Savage Sharp Shooters stocks. The guy specializes in Savage and has quality on line with Mcmillin for a lower price. I had their stock and trigger set up on my last .223 heavy barrel Savage. I was really impressed with the workmanship and you can get their stocks in a thumb hole also.

Stockade Stocks made those for Sharp Shooter Supply (SSS) and is now selling them directly without going through SSS.

Fred and Peaches at SSS now have a line of laminated stocks that they sell.

chiefcrash
11-20-2006, 6:55 PM
you should have had him order one of these (http://www.snipercentral.com/bravo51.htm)

Socal858
11-20-2006, 7:09 PM
the choate is very nice if you arent lugging it around. yes it weighs as much as a boat. if youre the bench type you cant go wrong wtih it, my dad is shooting 1/2 moa easily with his savage

xenophobe
11-20-2006, 7:28 PM
Choate stocks are crap. The Varmint is more usable than the Ultimate Sniper, but I would definitely NOT recommend either stock to anyone interested in getting any kind of accuracy out of their rifles.

If you're going to spend money for a stock, instead of throwing it away get a H&S Precision, and if you want to go a step further bed it or get a McMillian... Any decent aftermarket stock would be better than the Choate...

First of all, don't bother breaking the barrel in.

Absolutely break in the barrel. A proper break-in will help the barrel achieve it's greatest potential and will make cleaning faster. How you break it in isn't as important, just that you do it. Search around for proper methods, and use one or develop your own.

In an AR or AK, or even any given hunting rifle, a proper break in is pointless for the most part. On a target/varmit rifle with a match grade barrel, the gain is only small, but every factor for accuracy potential you can gain is worth it in the long run, and proper break-in doesn't really cost any money like all of the other options other than training and practice... better scope, better mount, better rings, better stock, bedding the action, etc... Proper break-in is REQUIRED on M24 and M40 sniper rifles, and ever major match grade barrel maker would agree.

Barrel makers on breaking in:
http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/RapidCat/catalog/pagetemplate.cfm?template=/RapidCat/common/viewPage.cfm&PageId=2558&CompanyId=1246
http://www.shilen.com/faq.html#question10
http://www.riflebarrels.com/support/centerfire_maintenance.htm
http://www.pac-nor.com/care/
http://www.benchrest.com/FAQ/6.1.shtml
http://www.benchrest.com/sgybreakin.htm
http://www.montanarifleman.com/New%20Barrel%20Break%20In.pdf
http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/downloads/m24_maintenance.pdf

Then again there are a number of equally valid sources that have a good point against breaking in a barrel.

Oh well... pick a side and stick to it. ;)

ohsmily
11-20-2006, 7:37 PM
Absolutely break in the barrel. A proper break-in will help the barrel achieve it's greatest potential and will make cleaning faster. How you break it in isn't as important, just that you do it. Search around for proper methods, and use one or develop your own.

In an AR or AK, or even any given hunting rifle, a proper break in is pointless for the most part. On a target/varmit rifle with a match grade barrel, the gain is only small, but every factor for accuracy potential you can gain is worth it in the long run, and proper break-in doesn't really cost any money like all of the other options other than training and practice... better scope, better mount, better rings, better stock, bedding the action, etc... Proper break-in is REQUIRED on M24 and M40 sniper rifles, and ever major match grade barrel maker would agree.

Barrel makers on breaking in:
http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/RapidCat/catalog/pagetemplate.cfm?template=/RapidCat/common/viewPage.cfm&PageId=2558&CompanyId=1246
http://www.shilen.com/faq.html#question10
http://www.riflebarrels.com/support/centerfire_maintenance.htm
http://www.pac-nor.com/care/
http://www.benchrest.com/FAQ/6.1.shtml
http://www.benchrest.com/sgybreakin.htm
http://www.montanarifleman.com/New%20Barrel%20Break%20In.pdf
http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/downloads/m24_maintenance.pdf

Then again there are a number of equally valid sources that have a good point against breaking in a barrel.

Oh well... pick a side and stick to it. ;)

I have done the break-in procedure on my 700P and my Sako TRG-22. I don't plan on doing it on my next precision rifle. Waste of time at the range that could be used practicing. The following thread has been posted and copied as a sticky on MANY precision and tactical shooting forums. I suggest you read the whole thing before making your decision of whether or not to break in. http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/Barrel_BreakIn.asp
If you DO decide to break in make sure you are using high quality equipment.

xenophobe
11-20-2006, 8:41 PM
I have done the break-in procedure on my 700P and my Sako TRG-22. I don't plan on doing it on my next precision rifle. Waste of time at the range that could be used practicing. The following thread has been posted and copied as a sticky on MANY precision and tactical shooting forums. I suggest you read the whole thing before making your decision of whether or not to break in. http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/Barrel_BreakIn.asp
If you DO decide to break in make sure you are using high quality equipment.

Wow... you're acting like that ONE conversation is all that important... All that shows is that Gale McMillian says it's pointless. Rock and Hart agree that it's pointless, yet Shilen, Lilja, Douglas, Krieger and many others say that you should break in a barrel.

And thanks for presuming I haven't read that... :confused: That is an OOOLD article I've seen and read many times in the past.

m24armorer
11-20-2006, 9:08 PM
By all means, use JB or Fire Lap or heck just use valve grinding compound to smooth it up.

After 30 years of building precision rifles all sub 1/2 minute I do have a say about how you treat a barrel in a rifle that I build. The warranty on my rifles is for 8000 rounds, if you put any fancy crap down the tube and I find it with a bore scope I will void your warranty in a heartbeat.

If you would like some simple and and pain in the *** directions please email or pm me.

John Matthews
Mathewson Tool Company
Aircraft Armaments Inc.

RANGER295
11-20-2006, 9:46 PM
First I want to say you guys are all great! I love CalGuns.
It doesn’t look like H&S makes stocks for Savage based on their web site. But if I am going to spend that much I may as well go all out and go for the McMillan. I think that I need to handle whatever I get before I get it. I am thinking of doing this in two stages. I will buy the rifle and put the $200 limit that I gave myself for the stock into getting a better scope. Some time next year I will buy a stock. That way I won’t be compromising on both the scope and the stock so that I can have both now.

As far as the break in goes, I will read all of that stuff when I get a chance and decide before I fire it. Thanks for the offer m24. You will probably be hearing from me after finals.

ocabj
11-20-2006, 9:48 PM
Almost every quality barrel manufacturer states that break in isn't required, but if you want to do it, then they provide a procedure. I think they provide that procedure so they don't have to field calls about how to break in the barrel.

The last barrel I broke in was a brand new White Oak Armament service rifle barrel. All I did was clean the barrel completely, then fire two rounds, clean, two rounds, clean, five rounds, clean, and that's it. This barrel doesn't copper foul at all. Literally. Did the break in have anything to do with it? I highly doubt it. What mattered the most is how they cut the rifling and any hand lapping they did to the barrel prior to shipping it out. The only reason I even bothered to do this procedure on this barrel is because White Oak included a letter that said if you *felt* like you needed to break in the barrel, then do it that way.

What I did above is probably the most intensive I would ever get to breaking in a barrel. I would never do the one shot and clean, one shot and clean, one shot and clean, etc (for 10-20 rounds) that I see some people do. If you ever had a barrel that needed that kind of break in, you should have bought a better barrel.

But I don't argue with other people's break-in procedures. If it makes them feel good about their gun, then good for them.

I wouldn't even bother breaking in a factory mass produced barrel (ie: Remington, Savage, CZ, Ruger, Winchester). Those barrels will have so many tool marks that it's not going to do anything to do a one shot and clean break in regiment. Some people will go at the barrel with some bore paste to lap the tool marks out. That'll be more effective than a break-in will ever be on that kind of barrel. Granted, if done improperly, it will do more harm than good.

chiefcrash
11-20-2006, 10:05 PM
about the barrel break in:

anyone here a marine sniper (or knows one)? did YOU (or said known person) break in their barrel?

RANGER295
11-20-2006, 10:31 PM
I actually just came up with another option. I just realized that Savage sells the 10FP with a McMillan A2 and with a HS Precision. I think I will ask my FFL to get me prices for both of those. That may be the best of both worlds. Though I would like the A5.

ohsmily
11-21-2006, 8:39 AM
Wow... you're acting like that ONE conversation is all that important... All that shows is that Gale McMillian says it's pointless. Rock and Hart agree that it's pointless, yet Shilen, Lilja, Douglas, Krieger and many others say that you should break in a barrel.

And thanks for presuming I haven't read that... :confused: That is an OOOLD article I've seen and read many times in the past.

Yes, it is an old article...that doesn't render it any less valuable for someone making a decision of whether or not to break a barrel in. The article also provides a possible explanation for why some barrel makers DO want you to break it in (shorter barrel life --> more barrels bought).

And this is not a spelling nitpick, it is a question of why people say/spell a name a particular way. I honestly want to know...why do you refer to "McMillan" as "McMillian?" Do you pronounce it that way too? It makes no sense. I see it ALL the time in reference to McMillan stocks and/or Gale McMillan and it is just plain wrong. Maybe it feels "cuter" to you guys to say McMillian instead of McMillan...I just don't get it.

xenophobe
11-21-2006, 9:27 AM
OMG I misspelled someones' freaking name for christ's sake. Great job, genius. Yeah, I must be wrong. Guess I'll have to watch your spelling from now on too. :rolleyes:

proraptor
11-21-2006, 9:36 AM
There Ohsmily goes again with his spelling/grammar stuff...Man he is annoying!

To original poster - If I were you Id get the savage 10FP with either the mcmillan or HS precision stocks straight from the factory. Add glass/rings and you should be good to go!

Res
11-21-2006, 9:50 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v652/ResDogDM/stopgrammartime.gif

for Ohsmily

xenophobe
11-21-2006, 9:52 AM
Ummm... 53 words responding to a topic and 80 to ***** about a spelling mistake. That pretty much says it all.

ohsmily
11-21-2006, 10:08 AM
OMG I misspelled someones' freaking name for christ's sake. Great job, genius. Yeah, I must be wrong. Guess I'll have to watch your spelling from now on too. :rolleyes:

Look Ziniofiobye, you are right, I should have left it alone.

P.S. You should sell your Savage and get a Remington 700 Varmint, Police, or 5R MilSpec.

ohsmily
11-21-2006, 10:09 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v652/ResDogDM/stopgrammartime.gif



That's pretty good, Rez.

jemaddux
11-21-2006, 10:30 AM
Choate stocks are crap. The Varmint is more usable than the Ultimate Sniper, but I would definitely NOT recommend either stock to anyone interested in getting any kind of accuracy out of their rifles.

If you're going to spend money for a stock, instead of throwing it away get a H&S Precision, and if you want to go a step further bed it or get a McMillian... Any decent aftermarket stock would be better than the Choate...

Oh well... pick a side and stick to it. ;)


This is one thing that always drives me crazy. This and that is crap this isn't crap and so on. If you get XYZ this would be the greatest way to go and so on. The best thing said here is "PICK A SIDE AND STICK WITH IT". People need to pick what works for them, thats it. Sometimes your going to spend money on something and it isn't going to work for you. Sometimes you spend a few bucks and it works great.

Hers a few things to look at:

Savage 10fp
Straight out of the box, nothing done to the firearm

2008

Added a Bell Carlson stock and still nothing done to the firearm

2007

Its mainly up to how much you shoot and are willing to work at it. These pictures are with a very cheap scope just tossed on the rifle shot from a prone position. First used 168gr HPBT gold match rounds, second added cheap stock and changed ammo to federal 155gr HPBT. Learn to shoot the firearm to the best that you can stock and then after messing with ammo, optics and so on worry about other mods to the firearm. To much in the way of throwing in bad money after bad money. You might find out after shooting that you are happy they way it shoots with less exspensive parts. Just my 3.25 cents:D .

anotherted
11-21-2006, 11:18 AM
Ill just drop my .000002.

Ive owned 2 mcmillan stocks, the A2 (i believe -- too lazy to check the website) and the M40A1.

They are worth the money. The increased weight cuts recoil like crazy, and you need to have them bedded, so your rifle's potential for accuracy jumps.

HS precisions are pretty good as well (ive owned a few of these too), but are not even in the same area code as mcmillans. Only drawback with mcmillans is the 3-6 mo. waiting and waiting and waiting period.

Im sure you know this but its worth a second mention: You get what you pay for.

Shameless promotion:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/TeddyJ/Rem7001.jpg

jemaddux
11-21-2006, 12:20 PM
Ummm... 53 words responding to a topic and 80 to ***** about a spelling mistake. That pretty much says it all.


The ignore button works WONDERS!!!!!!!!!! :D

RANGER295
12-12-2006, 8:17 AM
Thanks guys for all of the input. I finally decided to go with the 10FP that comes factory bedded in an A3 McMillan stock. I decided that the Chote USS was not for me. I am glad that I questioned my choice before I laid my money down. It is not here yet but I am hoping to have it in hand by the end of the year.

Now that I have the rifle picked out I need to decide what to put on top of it. I was originally thinking of a Leupold Mark 4 LR/T series scope but even with my discount, the upper end ones are more than I want to spend. The other ones that I was looking at were the Burris XTR 3X-12X-50mm with the Ballistic Mil-Dot Illuminated reticle or the XTR 6X-24X-50mm with the 14X Ballistic Mil-Dot reticle. I can get these for much less than the comparable Leupold. What are all of your thoughts? Is there something else out there that I may want to take a look at? I may slap a cheapo Tasco scope I have sitting on the shelf on it for a few months and save so I can drop a little more than originally planed on the scope.

5968
12-12-2006, 8:24 AM
Check out SWFA. They have a line of scopes called "Super Sniper". I have two of them. They are reasonable in price and very durable.

M1A Rifleman
12-12-2006, 8:24 AM
Go with the good stock. Also look at the items from HS Precision. I tried the barrel break-in and I beleive it works. My experience is that it DOES polish the barrel ,aking clean-up that much easier. Also, last I checked the manual, Remington does have a barrel break-in procedure for the Military M24, so they must think it is important.

RANGER295
12-12-2006, 11:10 AM
I have spent the last couple of hours that I should have been studying for finals reading reviews on SWFA Super Sniper scopes. I really like what I see and the price is great if they are really as good as everyone says. My biggest concern is the fixed power. The choices are 10, 16 or 20. 10 seems about right for 500 yards and less but maybe a little underpowered for some of the 800+ yard stuff I hope to do with this rifle. On the flip side, I do want to be able to use this rifle in the 100 to 300 yard range which seems a little close for the 16 or the 20 power. The most powerful scope I have now only goes up to 9 so this is really just impressions on my part. Thoughts?

In response to the comments about the stock and break in. I looked at the HS Precision stock as well. I could have gotten it for about $100 less than the McMillan. Comparing the two of them, there it was a no brainer. Well worth the extra bill. As far as the break in, I found out that savage has a recommended break in which is basically a shoot clean… thing like was talked about earlier. Seems like a pain in the rear but I am just going to do it and not worry about it.

5968
12-12-2006, 5:45 PM
I have a 10 power and a 20 power. I really like the 10. I have have shot it all the way out to 600 yds with no problems. The 20 is really nice at 600 yds but a bit much for 100 yds. I personally would go with a 10 power. As a matter of a fact, I'll be getting another before to long.

RANGER295
03-02-2007, 5:54 PM
I hate to bring back an old thread but I have to brag. First, I want to thank all of you for your input. I ended up getting the 10FP with the McMillan A-3 stock. The mounts and rings are Burris XTR and the scope is the SS 10x42. I still have to get the bipod but it is finally usable.
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q214/stanstateag07/10fp.jpg

proraptor
03-03-2007, 6:29 AM
Thats cool to hear...I actually bought a 10fp also (no pics yet) and bought the bell and carlson tactical medalist stock for mine...I went with a Warne one piece tactical base, Warne maxima QD rings and a super sniper 10X..I also bought a harris ultralite swivel bipod....Im going to shoot it for the first time today!

Im not sure where you live but Ill be up at Burro Canyon if you want to meet up

RANGER295
03-03-2007, 7:15 AM
Thats cool to hear...I actually bought a 10fp also (no pics yet) and bought the bell and carlson tactical medalist stock for mine...I went with a Warne one piece tactical base, Warne maxima QD rings and a super sniper 10X..I also bought a harris ultralite swivel bipod....Im going to shoot it for the first time today!

Im not sure where you live but Ill be up at Burro Canyon if you want to meet up

Cool. Let me know how you like your bipod. I am getting a Harris but I haven’t decided which one yet.

Thanks, I would love to meet up but I live way up north hear Lodi and I agreed to help cook for a prime-rib dinner. Of course I get to sample the cooking:D .

MicronuT
03-03-2007, 9:29 PM
recently put together by randy cain

http://rdprecision.net/


http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/4412/cimg0487qc8.jpg

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/4999/cimg0489zu3.jpg

James R.
03-03-2007, 9:35 PM
I have spent the last couple of hours that I should have been studying for finals reading reviews on SWFA Super Sniper scopes. I really like what I see and the price is great if they are really as good as everyone says. My biggest concern is the fixed power. The choices are 10, 16 or 20. 10 seems about right for 500 yards and less but maybe a little underpowered for some of the 800+ yard stuff I hope to do with this rifle. On the flip side, I do want to be able to use this rifle in the 100 to 300 yard range which seems a little close for the 16 or the 20 power. The most powerful scope I have now only goes up to 9 so this is really just impressions on my part. Thoughts?

In response to the comments about the stock and break in. I looked at the HS Precision stock as well. I could have gotten it for about $100 less than the McMillan. Comparing the two of them, there it was a no brainer. Well worth the extra bill. As far as the break in, I found out that savage has a recommended break in which is basically a shoot clean… thing like was talked about earlier. Seems like a pain in the rear but I am just going to do it and not worry about it.

10x is not overpowered for 100 yards unless you need a large field of view. I shoot at 18x all the time at 100 yards, I'll take all the power you can give me when I'm shooting for groups. You want to stay away from very high power when you need to engage a lot of targets because the higher powers will give you tunnel vision. Also the higher powers sacrifice light transmission and eye relief which can be an issue for harder recoiling calibers.

If you're willing to pay in the $450 range you should look at the Leupold 6~18 x 40mm VXII. I have one of these on a Remington 700 and it has been flawless, adjustable power and adjustable parallax which is IMHO farily beneficial. If you must have mil dots I think you can special order from Leupold, it'll cost you an extra $75 if my memory serves me.

http://www.swfa.com/pc-3485-86-leupold-6-18x40-vx-ii-riflescope.aspx

Regards,

James R.

PS - I have a 16 power Super Sniper on my 50 BMG, it's an ok scope for what it costs but the turrets and such don't feel as nice as the Leupold in terms of how positive the clicks are and the like. Ohh another thing that might not be great for you on that 6~18 is the clicks, they're 1/8 minute...it's meant for target work not tactical work. If you're wanting to rail thru a lot of range fast you might stick to 1/4~1/2 minute clicks. That having been said it's a great scope IMHO...

NwG
03-03-2007, 10:38 PM
You made a good choice with the rifle and stock.. The glass question is always a PITA...

IMO-
Buy the best glass you can't afford.. You have a rifle there that can shoot 1/2MOA easy. You seem to be on the right track looking at quality glass..

With quality glass 10x is fine all the way out to 1000 yards for man sized targets. A fixed power scope also has a few advantages..

You tend to get a better scope for the same amout of money with a fixed power. More of the cost can go to better glass and part vs costs spent on the adjustable power internals.

A fixed power scope makes useing the Mil-dots very easy.. You don't have to adjust the power to get the correct dot size.. (Though more and more scopes are now made were you can range find at any power -FFP-)

I own a bunch of both fixed and adjustable power scopes.. Right now I like the fixed power glass better.. But that can change at any time..

My pre-accutrigger 10FP .308... Ditched the factory POS stock for the B&C medalist and added a USO ST-10 and a new base.. Love this rifle!
http://w-a-w.net/gallery/d/18208-2/Ang+007.jpg

proraptor
03-03-2007, 11:08 PM
I went shooting today at burro and even though the wind was kind of bad I manages a 3 shot group in about an inch at 100 yards (the holes were all touching) during barrel break in...I love my setup...

James R.
03-04-2007, 12:46 AM
Heh well I feel like a tard, I still hate this forum format. I think I must have followed into your thread from the front part of the forum thinking this was fresh meat so to speak. Seems my input is too little too late, guess I have to keep closer track of the post dates. KAWF totally pwn's this forum layout...yeah go ahead, bash away ;-)

In any event congrats man, looks great.

Regards,

James R.