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View Full Version : Letters to ATF for the shotgun BAN - ATF generic response received


fredieusa
04-23-2011, 5:37 PM
Below is what i have received.. It does not say much..


http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk170/fredieusa/Untitled-TrueColor-01-2.jpg



I have been looking for one and just came across it below and want to pass it along. Its not the best, but it is better than nothing. if you have a better generic e-mail people can send, please post (what have you been waiting for? and where have you been?)

This is from an e-mail I got from "Dudley Brown". I don't know how I am on the person's mailing list, but I am. He/They run an org. called National Association for Gun Rights. I don't know anything about them, but they appear to be pro-gun (you never know nowadays).

Posted below is the sample they are giving out for folks (Who are slightly challenged in the English language, like myself) to use. It may be generic, BUT IT COUNTS. This is our chance to show our numbers to ATF. In this day and age, there is no reason why we cannot cram that office with so many letters that they are overwhelmed.

If it is toilet paper that these letters will replace, lets make sure they don't have to buy toilet paper for rest of their lives.

I am not seeing a call for rallying the troops for this particular campaign, as I hoped to see. Please realize the outcome here will have far reaching consequences. Next study they promote on Rifles or handguns will not be so enthusiastically and eagerly scheduled by the ATF or the DOJ.

It appears that our everyday mainstream RKBA organizations are too busy letting us know about the letters they have drafted, rather than rallying people and having a goal to send in a few million letters!

I think we have less than 10 days to e-mail this.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You can click below and fill out the blanks.. Just that simple.

http://www.nagr.org/ATFShotgunBanFax.aspx?pid=1a

Or

You can copy the below and e-mail it to shotgunstudy@atf.gov
Your e-mail must contain your name and address for it to be counted. The ATF does not want a bot to ring in a million letters.


TO: The BATFE
RE: Shotgun Ban

Your Study on the Importability of Certain Shotguns is nothing short of an assault on the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States.

The implication of certain shotguns being more dangerous than others simply because one may have a light or be “excessively heavy” is ludicrous and shows a blatant lack of knowledge regarding home defense shotguns.

Furthermore, attempting to redefine what constitutes a “sporting purpose” shotgun shows a willful disregard for both shooting sports in general and, specifically, the individual gun owner.

I hereby sign my name to the list of those who wish for you to stop encroaching on the rights of gun owners and twisting the laws as you see fit.

First Name, Last Name
E-mail address
Street address/ Zip





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Here is what I have received from Dudley. As I am using his sample draft, least i can do is post this message.

http://paracom.paramountcommunication.com/hostedemail/email.htm?h=8132aedcf267f43baea8460073242a47&CID=8601400971&ch=DAEE8A124DE47CA587FA7D773E96519F

Fred

Did you get the email I sent on Thursday?

The simple fact is, this is a serious issue and I need to make sure you are aware of it.

I can't take the chance that you would miss getting involved because of how important your voice is in this fight.

So, if you haven't already, read the email below and leave the ATF a comment before it's too late.

If you did read the email but didn't leave a comment yet, follow this link and tell the ATF to stop trying to redefine the law to take your shotguns away.

I already have a pre-written message to send them at the link. All you have to do is sign your name.

--Dudley

From: Dudley Brown [mailtoxxxxx@nagr.org]
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 3:58 PM
Subject: The ATF Wants Your Shotgun

Fred,

Did you know the ATF is trying to re-define the law?

And they’ve got their anti-gun sights set on your SHOTGUN.

In January, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives released a document announcing a study that would dramatically tighten regulations on shotguns.

With the tacit approval of the Obama Administration, the ATF hopes to use bureaucratic rule changes to ban the importation and sale of certain shotguns based on their twisted view of the “sporting purposes” clause in the 1968 Gun Control Act.

There’s one major problem.

As you know, the purpose of the Second Amendment isn’t to protect “sports.”

It’s to protect citizens -- like you and me -- from a tyrannical government.

This proposal by the ATF is an all-out flank attack on our right to keep and bear arms.

The ATF’s ridiculously anti-gun study suggests that certain, and in many cases very random, criteria would make a shotgun unable to be imported. Those random criteria include:

• Folding, telescoping or collapsible stocks;

• Bayonet lugs;

• Flash suppressors;

• Magazines over 5 rounds, or a drum magazine;

• Integrated rail systems;

• Light enhancing devices;

• Excessive weight (greater than 10 pounds for a 12 gauge);

• Excessive bulk;

• Forward pistol grip.

You read that right. Excessive weight and bulk will get your shotgun banned.

You and I both know, none of the items listed make a firearm more or less dangerous.

It is a list of completely arbitrary items that have more to do with appearance than anything substantial.

The ATF might as well say they don’t want anything “black” to be imported – it would be just as logical.

But their blatant disregard for the truth doesn’t stop there.

The United States Practical Shooting Association (USPSA) and the International Practical Shooting Confederation (IPSC) might be interested to know that the ATF doesn’t consider their matches a “sport”...

But the ATF has made a mistake, and I need you to capitalize on it.

They have opened up a comment period – open until April 30 – by which the general public can voice their opinions on this “study.”

That means gun owners like you and I, simply MUST make our voices heard by the anti-gun bureaucrats in Washington.

They think that they quietly slip these regulations through without taxpayers and voters making a fuss.

Gun owners must let them know we’re watching their every move.

That’s why I need you to contact the ATF and tell them to keep their hands off your shotgun and to ditch their ridiculous, anti-gun study.

You can send them a message by clicking here.

Over the next few days, I intend to urge National Association for Gun Rights’ members like you to flood the ATF with emails stating exactly how ridiculous their proposal is.

This ban is not about public safety.

It is nothing less than the Obama administrations latest attempt to use bureaucratic wrangling to trample over your Second Amendment rights.

It is another example of a power grab by an already out of control government agency.

Apparently it wasn’t enough for them to funnel firearms into Mexico.

Now they want to keep you from having a home defense shotgun.

I need you to contact the ATF TODAY and tell them to keep their hands off your shotgun and to ditch their ridiculous, anti-gun study.

You can send them a message by clicking here.

Once you’ve sent an email and fax to the ATF, I hope you stand with me and chip in $15 or $20 to help the National Association for Gun Rights fight the ATF’s Shotgun Ban.

Like I said, I’ll take care of the rest.


For Liberty,

signature

Dudley Brown
Executive Director
National Association for Gun Rights


P.S. The ATF is trying to sneak through a bureaucratic rule change that would ban the importation and sale of thousands of shotugns I need you to contact the ATF TODAY and tell them to keep their hands off your shotgun and to ditch their ridiculous, anti-gun study.

You can send them a message by clicking here.

Once you’ve sent an email and fax to the ATF, I hope you stand with me and chip in $15 or $20 to help the National Association for Gun Rights fight the ATF’s Shotgun Ban.

To help the National Association for Gun Rights grow, please forward this to a friend.

To view this email as a web page, please click this link: view online.

Help fight gun control. Donate to the National Association for Gun Rights!

CharlesV
04-24-2011, 6:50 AM
I previously wrote to NAGR for specific information about this possible ban and got no reply. For better or worse i modified and sent the letter to ATF as well as the fax. My letter is here. If the whole thing isnt bogus i suggest everyone write and add their own personal touch. The deadline is Apr 30!

To the ATF,

Your Study on the Importability of Certain Shotguns is nothing short of an assault on the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States . Please stop.

The implication that certain shotguns are more dangerous than others simply because one may have a light or be excessively heavy is ludicrous and shows a blatant lack of knowledge regarding home defense shotguns.

Furthermore, attempting to redefine what constitutes a "sporting purpose" shotgun shows a willful disregard for both shooting sports in general and, specifically, the individual gun owner who should be left alone to decide his own needs. For example, on the issue of the forward grip on a shotgun, whats wrong with that? How does a configuration or added components which allow better and safer control constitute dangers which should be taken away from owners or make the long gun somehow an evil terrorist weapon sure to be used in the nature of assault? This is crazy. The only assault i can see going on here is the assault on the rights of honest and law-abiding citizens for the sake of an extreme few who are causing all the trouble.

I hereby sign my name to the list of those who wish for you to stop encroaching on the rights of gun owners and twisting the laws as you see fit. I can certainly understand the countrywide concern about both crime and criminals holding guns of any type, a concern i certainly share! In my 50 years of gun ownership i never once used any weapon in any act of aggression, or to scare or intimidate people, or to commit a crime of any type. Your efforts are better served pursuing those who do, representing the extreme minimum of the gun-owning population and bring to bear upon them the harshest penalties possible. For the others, leave us alone!

sixtus
04-25-2011, 12:24 PM
I also sent in my letter.

Most common shotguns used in crimes are the Remington 870 and Mossberg 500 anyway.

oni.dori
04-25-2011, 4:47 PM
So the ATF has announced that they intend to ban shotguns like the Saiga 12 now? Last I heard they were just "reviewing" them.

oni.dori
04-26-2011, 1:39 AM
When was this? Only about a month ago, I saw a lot of the senior members here on CG saying not to worry because they hadn't announced it was actually going to happen yet, and to quit panicking.

Dreaded Claymore
04-26-2011, 1:45 AM
E-mail sent.

Let them come! There is one dwarf gun owner yet in Moria California who still draws breath! :13:

Zachs300zx
04-27-2011, 12:30 AM
Another email sent. Why does giving the ATF my address make me nervous? I'm sure they already have it :angelsad2:

mag360
04-27-2011, 7:43 PM
CGN wake up! we have got to be sending letters on this!!! this thread has not nearly enough responses.

Krak
04-27-2011, 8:03 PM
Email sent.

Lets crash their email service.

HatersLOVEme : )
04-28-2011, 2:04 AM
Sent e-mail - I may never use the freaking Bayonet lug on my 590A1 but I want to keep the right to have one :)

Nevermore
04-28-2011, 2:23 AM
Sent my letter in. Though it was more of a policy/legal argument brief with footnotes than a letter, but hey. They'll know at least some people are paying attention to the legal merits.

Dreaded Claymore
04-28-2011, 2:24 AM
Sent e-mail - I may never use the freaking Bayonet lug on my 590A1 but I want to keep the right to have one :)

Yeah, seriously. Shotguns with bayonets are awesome.

jshoebot
04-28-2011, 2:25 AM
Sent.

wlltest
04-28-2011, 11:27 AM
Email sent :13:

Zachs300zx
04-28-2011, 12:06 PM
Feinstein Asks President To Tighten Import Restrictions On Semi-Automatic Rifles
On Tuesday, Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) sent a letter to President Barack Obama, urging him to have the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives review its interpretation of the federal law that provides for the importation of firearms “generally recognized as particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes.” Adopting a narrower interpretation of the law would, Feinstein claimed, help reduce violence in Mexico and the United States.

http://fwgunshow.com/index.php/feinstein-asks-president-to-tighten-import-restrictions-on-semi-automatic-rifles


...Study on shotguns and now pushing for more rifle import limitations. I see the parts kits supply drying up even more...
We need to get those comment emails and faxes sent in.

bohoki
04-28-2011, 12:37 PM
my letter goes as follows

dont be takin my shottys you jackbooted nazis

sorry that is the first and last time i will ever use the word shotty


oops i did it again

Dreaded Claymore
04-28-2011, 2:20 PM
For guys who collect WWII stuff and others, its a matter of banning our hobby. Regardless if you want one or not, the choice should be yours to make.

I am not sure if you have sarcasm in your statement. Either way.

Winchester Repeating Arms Co. Catalog No. 82, June-July 1921
Model 97 Trench Gun

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7b/WncsterCatMod97trench.jpg

No, I'm not being sarcastic. Bayonets are freaking cool. Shoot, I hadn't even thought about collectors. Now that I think about it, you must be twice as furious as me.

freonr22
04-28-2011, 7:48 PM
bump for the night crew

MasterrEugene
04-28-2011, 10:25 PM
Shouldn't this thread have a sticky?

Zachs300zx
04-29-2011, 10:52 AM
Shouldn't this thread have a sticky?

Agreed, It should. The deadline is tomorrow, April 30th!

hawk1
04-29-2011, 11:19 AM
I've read the 25 posts previous to mine and question as to why theres no input, positive or negative, from Calguns Foundation?

Their silence is deafening...:confused:

edsel6502
05-01-2011, 1:45 AM
bump

Mesa Tactical
05-01-2011, 6:52 PM
Study on the Importability of Certain Shotguns refers repeatedly to the 1989 Report and Recommendation on the ATF working group on the Importability of Certain Semiautomatic Rifles and the 1998 Department of the Treasury Study on the Sporting Suitability of Modified Semiautomatic Rifles. These documents make interesting reading, and I don’t believe an informed analysis of the 2011 shotgun study can be made without having consulted them. Indeed, the 1989 study seems to be the basis for most of the working group’s departure points as well as, sadly, most of its conclusions.

Mesa Tactical's nine-page response can be found here (http://www.mesatactical.com/index.php?s=file_download&id=63).

safewaysecurity
05-01-2011, 6:58 PM
So are they going to announce tomorrow?

CharlesV
05-02-2011, 5:50 PM
My comments:

1. We have to fight for each other even if we dont care about a particular weapon. Myself, 2011 is my year to buy a Mossberg partly because i see the door closing. But even if i didnt buy or care about a shotgun, we all need to keep prying the door back open for the overall good of whatever gun ownership is allowed under 2nd Am.

2. How do we fight better? Seems like they listen to anti-gun people more.

3. NAGR. I dont really get who they are. Why do they seem like a front to me? Its an odd feeling.

4. I severely hesitate to give real name/address at anytime. But thats silly paranoia since these agencies know more about our addresses than we do even on a bad day.

5. How to follow this potential ban better? Did they ask for public opinion and then slam the door on shotguns today anyway?

stix213
05-13-2011, 1:03 PM
ya I also just received the same e-mail the other day. At least that means they received my message and I'm tallied in the keep Saiga-12's legal category :D

Wherryj
05-13-2011, 4:38 PM
Dudley Brown's group is pro-gun, but even more pro-spam. If you ever took the "survey" on gun rights, etc., that is how you got onto the NAGR newsletter.

I haven't bothered to add the address to the spam filter because I find the emails amusing, in an over the top way.

CharlesV
05-14-2011, 7:50 AM
I got the same letter in reply. I feel we need to follow up and send more.

Dudley Brown is pro-gun but even more pro-"send cash in a hurry or our butts are down the drain"

I also dont blacklist the poor guy, i like the buzz i get from his alarmist ways. But on the other hand he does keep the flow going against ATF and we need that.

I wont forget something a senator said not long ago: "I didnt know how to vote on an issue. I asked my secretary what faxes we had on the topic. She said just two citizens faxed, and to urge a vote in the affirmative, so thats how i voted."

funnyman3000
05-14-2011, 8:33 AM
We need a few forum members to take the hit and commit crimes with bats/knifes/frying pans/golf clubs. This will then dwarf the number of crimes committed with shotguns, and draw the attention away from more bans against them. Sorry in advance to baseball/golf players if this results in your sport being banned though.

12voltguy
05-14-2011, 8:34 AM
So anyone who wrote a letter to the ATF, now has their personal info posted on the net for all to see.


http://www.atf.gov/about/foia/shotgun-study-responses/0306-shotgun-study-responses.pdf

The War Wagon
05-14-2011, 8:55 AM
Dear Subject of the Realm,

Thanks for tipping us off to your gun stash, with your pointless inquiry. Your house is now designated as one of the first to have its doors kicked in, since you wouldn't have written us, if you didn't have contraband guns in it to start with.

You will get to wear a nifty little state-issued badge on your state-issued jumper inside the re-education camp paradise. Thanks again for the heads-up.

Sincerely,

The BATmen...

:mad:



There's the response they WANTED to send, but for legal reasons... still... they couldn't.

Mesa Tactical
05-14-2011, 12:27 PM
So anyone who wrote a letter to the ATF, now has their personal info posted on the net for all to see.


http://www.atf.gov/about/foia/shotgun-study-responses/0306-shotgun-study-responses.pdf

Except us, for some reason.

Dreaded Claymore
05-14-2011, 12:50 PM
To paraphrase Cartman, we need to pressure the government to dissolve the BATFE, because I hate those guys. I hate them so very, very much.

chaseface
05-14-2011, 3:01 PM
If it was the Saiga shotguns your worried about check these threads out

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=432360

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/66799-import-of-saiga-12-infofor-what-its-worth/

762.DEFENSE
05-14-2011, 3:04 PM
E-mail sent in, with the same generic email sent back in response.

Cokebottle
05-14-2011, 3:16 PM
So anyone who wrote a letter to the ATF, now has their personal info posted on the net for all to see.


http://www.atf.gov/about/foia/shotgun-study-responses/0306-shotgun-study-responses.pdf
Wonderful.

There was a nagging reason in the back of my head why I did not participate in this campaign.
I'm very glad now that I didn't.

stix213
05-14-2011, 3:26 PM
So anyone who wrote a letter to the ATF, now has their personal info posted on the net for all to see.


http://www.atf.gov/about/foia/shotgun-study-responses/0306-shotgun-study-responses.pdf

Why didn't mine make it in there? I'm a little disappointed. I'd rather stand up and be counted.

12voltguy
05-14-2011, 3:30 PM
Why didn't mine make it in there? I'm a little disappointed. I'd rather stand up and be counted.

I know people getting on spamm list from this also

did you go through all 516 pages?
do we know the total of email letters sent?

stix213
05-14-2011, 3:35 PM
I know people getting on spamm list from this also

did you go through all 516 pages?
do we know the total of email letters sent?

I already get tons of spam to that e-mail account. Ya I searched the entire thing for my name and e-mail.

bigcalidave
05-14-2011, 3:38 PM
Almost one per page, they could have redacted the email addresses at the very least. Are there really people who know they sent in an email that isn't on that list? It should be an all or nothing kind of deal, either they are hiding the true number of statements (500 isn't many) or its sad that they only got 500 emails.

goober
05-14-2011, 3:40 PM
regardless of how any indivual feels about having his or her letter posted by the ATF, it is wildly inappropriate for them to have done so, without redacting names & email addresses.
hubris + incompetence, a great combination.

Cokebottle
05-14-2011, 4:14 PM
All adults in my household wrote a letter - they are not posted above.

Everyone i know personally, who sent in a note/e-mail/fax/letter is not on this list.
Yet
So this is not the complete list, probably just samples chosen in random order from the month of Feb and March.
There ya go.
The window according to the OP was 4/30. This was just published.
Especially if 30,000 letters came in during April, it's going to take them a couple more months to compile the more recent emails.