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View Full Version : Did anyone ever challenge the L.A. Gunshow Ban?


TurboChrisB
04-22-2011, 7:36 PM
God I miss the old Great Western Gunshow in Pomona! Did anyone ever try to challenge or sue the Board of Supervisors about this? Aren't there reasonable legal grounds to?

hornswaggled
04-22-2011, 7:51 PM
That was the best gunshow ever. I miss it too :(

hawk1
04-22-2011, 8:19 PM
Yes and the city lost.

Edit

Some reading for you
New ordinance passed:
http://articles.latimes.com/1999/dec/10/local/me-42501

Settlement here:
http://www.metnews.com/articles/guns021403.htm

ojisan
04-22-2011, 8:26 PM
God I miss the old Great Western Gunshow in Pomona! Me too. Did anyone ever try to challenge or sue the Board of Supervisors about this? Yes, way back when. Aren't there reasonable legal grounds to? I believe this will depend on the results of the Nordyke case..."sensitive public places" etcetara.

Blue.

SanPedroShooter
04-23-2011, 7:05 AM
If the CA Supreme court ruled for the county, why did they pay off GW? I am confused.

Ah, just re-read the second link. GW was going to continue suing, this time on 1A grounds. The payoff made them go away. It also looks like the county paid millions to fairplex to fill the revenue hole left by the discontinued gun shows. What I dont understand is if tens of thousands of people atttended these shows, spent millions of dollars over the years, made up the largest part of fairgrounds revenue, it seems like the people of the county had no problem with them. Is this pure tyranny by the minority...?

ALSystems
04-23-2011, 7:07 AM
Even if Nordyke finally issues a decision stating "fairgrounds are not a sensitive area" it seems that Great Western Gunshow promised in their legal settlement not to try to bring back the gunshow to Pomona or any other LA county owned property:

Settlement:
http://www.metnews.com/articles/guns021403.htm

Maybe some other company would open a gunshow. But why would any company even bother. It's like trying to open a gunstore in Oakland. :(

TurboChrisB
04-23-2011, 10:13 AM
So misguided it makes me ill.


Supervisor Zev Yaroslavsky, who led a narrow board majority in efforts to adopt the ordinance, called the agreement “a victory for public safety and common sense.”
Making the payment was a simple business decision, he said.
“They had a very high-powered attorney challenging us,” Yaroslavsky said. “We’re better off having resolved this case. The bottom line is that the county is a safer place because this particular bazaar of weapons of all kinds is no longer in our midst.”

Uxi
04-23-2011, 10:53 AM
That sucks. That one was so convenient for me, too. :(

Keala
04-23-2011, 11:19 AM
OK, I don't want to make my first real post a buzzkill, and I am personally totally cool with gunshows, but if the people of LA don't want them....isn't that their right? Why go to court? Such as not wanting a strip club or a liquor store in your neighborhood...isn't that the right of the people?? Anyway, as long as you still have that 'keep and bear' right, I think both sides can be happy...right?

SanPedroShooter
04-23-2011, 11:31 AM
It wasnt "the people of LA" it was three out five supervisors. Here are a couple quotes from the article.
“the county recognized that this ordinance had a lot of legal problems and was likely to be held unconstitutional.”

"...will cost Fairplex $600,000 a year, about one-third of its annual earnings."

"commonly drawing about 35,000 people to each of its largest exhibitions--in April and October. The October show, coming on the heels of widespread news coverage about the county ordinance, attracted a record 40,000 people."

This was one of the biggest shows on the west coast and huge money maker for the fair grounds and the county. If the "people of LA" dont like my right to free speech can the board of supervisors tell me move? Lawful commerce in arms is essential to the Second Amendment. Isnt it restricted enough with the FFL system, especially in California where private property sales are illegal? Without access to FFLs, at gun shows or not, my gun is little more than a paper wieght...

Being from Hawaii, you should know exactly what happens when there is no where to buy or shoot your gun. You might as well take up golf, maybe you can keep and bear a putter...

N6ATF
04-23-2011, 11:55 AM
OK, I don't want to make my first real post a buzzkill, and I am personally totally cool with gunshows, but if the people of LA don't want them....isn't that their right? Why go to court? Such as not wanting a strip club or a liquor store in your neighborhood...isn't that the right of the people?? Anyway, as long as you still have that 'keep and bear' right, I think both sides can be happy...right?

You can't keep and bear if you can't engage in commerce freely (acquire arms).

The government does not represent the interests of the law-abiding who overwhelmingly want to be able to defend themselves in the most effective way possible (firearms). It represents criminals, who rejoice and benefit from every regulation, prohibition, and court ruling against the 2A.

Keala
04-23-2011, 12:08 PM
You can't keep and bear if you can't engage in commerce freely (acquire arms).

The government does not represent the interests of the law-abiding who overwhelmingly want to be able to defend themselves in the most effective way possible (firearms). It represents criminals, who rejoice and benefit from every regulation, prohibition, and court ruling against the 2A.

Is that really true that gun owners are worried that they won't be able to buy guns and have free commerce? I am totally for a person's or a community's rights to sell or not sell whatever they want. For instance, I support a woman's right to have an abortion, but I also support if a community does not want an abortion clinic in their neighborhood, or an individual doctor if he or they said they do not want to engage in that 'commerce'.

SanPedroShooter
04-23-2011, 12:15 PM
What if every community in the country said they didnt want an abortion clinic in there neighborhood? Instead of passing laws banning it, they just said, "fine is legal, but not here"? Now what? A right on paper is no right at all.

LA had dozens of FFLs 15 years ago. Now they have maybe 6. And half of them are Big 5 or Turners. As soon as gun grabbers figured out they couldnt ban guns outright (not from lack of trying) they went after dealers and manufacturers with zoning laws, frivolous law suits, ammunition bans etc... We are still dealing with this garbage today, right now, in this years legislative session. All these tangenital issues related to "keep and bear" are just as important, and they know it. Look up "Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms act"
If we werent pushed to wall in California, stuff like this wouldnt be that big of a deal. LA dosent want gun shows, fine. But give me back all my other gun rights that have been stripped from me. I dont think you really understand the depth of the issue here.

Thats right I said "tangential";)

N6ATF
04-23-2011, 12:21 PM
Is that really true that gun owners are worried that they won't be able to buy guns and have free commerce?

So much so that we're suing over it. http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Nordyke_v._King

G-forceJunkie
04-23-2011, 12:33 PM
When 40,000 people show up, 4 times a year, and spend millions of dollars...they want the show. The problem is when 1 or 2 politicians are against it for political gain.OK, I don't want to make my first real post a buzzkill, and I am personally totally cool with gunshows, but if the people of LA don't want them....isn't that their right? Why go to court? Such as not wanting a strip club or a liquor store in your neighborhood...isn't that the right of the people?? Anyway, as long as you still have that 'keep and bear' right, I think both sides can be happy...right?

bodger
04-23-2011, 12:41 PM
When 40,000 people show up, 4 times a year, and spend millions of dollars...they want the show. The problem is when 1 or 2 politicians are against it for political gain.

Exactly. Being anti-gun is a big hog trough of political gain for some of these politicians and we have the ridiculous frivolous gun laws to prove it.

Brent is right, when I first moved to LA in the late seventies, there were plenty of gun dealers around. Now, nearly none in the city limits. If they can't assail our RTKB directly, they'll find a roundabout way to do it and make themselves look good.

I would love to see the day when the pro-gun folks outnumber the antis in some of these areas. Watch how fast you would see Kevin DeLeon getting his photo taken out shooting clay pigeons with an NRA patch on his jacket.

They're such whores.

383green
04-23-2011, 12:51 PM
Is that really true that gun owners are worried that they won't be able to buy guns and have free commerce?

The elimination of the Great Western gun shows in Pomona certainly had a negative effect upon our ability to engage in commerce related to firearms. I don't know if you ever had a chance to attend that show, but it was huge. I would go to it to buy things that are simply not available through regular gun stores, which aren't large enough to cater to anything but the most mainstream buyers. The remaining gun shows in this area are much, much smaller than the Great Western show was, and have a correspondingly smaller selection of unusual items.

P.S.: Welcome to Calguns!

thrasherfox
04-23-2011, 1:03 PM
OK, I don't want to make my first real post a buzzkill, and I am personally totally cool with gunshows, but if the people of LA don't want them....isn't that their right? Why go to court? Such as not wanting a strip club or a liquor store in your neighborhood...isn't that the right of the people?? Anyway, as long as you still have that 'keep and bear' right, I think both sides can be happy...right?

So what about Gay Marriage in California?

It has been put up for vote 3 times in California, all three times it has been struck down by the majority of voters being against gay marriage.

Yet there are still law suits and legal proceedings in all essence saying the majority of peoples wishes do not matter, it is infringing on the rights of individuals.

So from your stance I am guessing you feel since the majority of California voters dont want to accept gay marriage, then by your logic people should just drop it and stop fighting for it right?

I mean that is the type of logic you are bringing in to this.

Keala
04-23-2011, 1:13 PM
So what about Gay Marriage in California?

It has been put up for vote 3 times in California, all three times it has been struck down by the majority of voters being against gay marriage.

Yet there are still law suits and legal proceedings in all essence saying the majority of peoples wishes do not matter, it is infringing on the rights of individuals.

So from your stance I am guessing you feel since the majority of California voters dont want to accept gay marriage, then by your logic people should just drop it and stop fighting for it right?

I mean that is the type of logic you are bringing in to this.

Well I am for anybody being allowed to marry because I just cannot see how it effects me one way or the other. But I guess they need to decide if it is unconstitutional??? So I guess it is fair to ask if that is also true for a gunshow, but I do understand what you mean by that :)

stillnotbob
04-23-2011, 1:16 PM
OK, I don't want to make my first real post a buzzkill, and I am personally totally cool with gunshows, but if the people of LA don't want them....isn't that their right? Why go to court? Such as not wanting a strip club or a liquor store in your neighborhood...isn't that the right of the people?? Anyway, as long as you still have that 'keep and bear' right, I think both sides can be happy...right?

Because we live in a Republic and when unjust laws are passed, say by a controlling group or a "majority", we have the right to take it to the Judicial System to over turn the law. This applies to any law.

Hypothetical example: Say a majority of the people hate people speaking out on street corners and ban public speaking. The "public speakers" have the right to take that to court so their rights are not trampled on by the Majority.

In regards to the gunshows the "majority" was the LA Country Supervisors.

Gray Peterson
04-23-2011, 1:32 PM
What Great Western cannot do, Crossroads of the West can. :)

383green
04-23-2011, 1:35 PM
What Great Western cannot do, Crossroads of the West can. :)

So, when are they planning to start up the jerky trucks and expand their shows to something approaching Great Western size? ;)

thrasherfox
04-23-2011, 1:52 PM
Well I am for anybody being allowed to marry because I just cannot see how it effects me one way or the other. But I guess they need to decide if it is unconstitutional??? So I guess it is fair to ask if that is also true for a gunshow, but I do understand what you mean by that :)

It is not unconstitutional for a gun show to be held.

Thrasher416
04-23-2011, 5:23 PM
A friend of mine that attended this show back in the early 80's told me it was much more than a regular gunshow. They had costume contests such as a Mexican Bandito contest, in which he saw some guys that really looked (and smelled) like Banditos. They had a lot of odd collectibles too, such as Hitler's silverware from the Eagle's Nest, parts of Abraham Lincoln's casket banner, etc. He said it was so big that you could go there several days and not see everything. I haven't seen a gunshow that I couldn't walk through in 2 hours!!:(

If only I had a time machine...:yes:

hornswaggled
04-23-2011, 9:38 PM
Crossroads of the West is okay, but it's like comparing Costco to a gas station convenience isle in Albequerque. I go to the Xroads show every time in Del Mar, but most of it seems to be airsoft guns, rc helicopters, and the same vendors every year in the same locations hawking their 20 year old Paladin Press books and Confederate flag stickers.

iambrian
04-23-2011, 10:00 PM
don't forget the unparalleled selection of beanie babies!!

Agent Akin
04-24-2011, 3:00 AM
Man, I miss those shows! They were staggeringly huge... my friends and I would blow an entire day there, easily, and I always felt that I wasn't seeing it all...

Seems to me that I looked up Great Western a while back, 2010ish, and found that they were still holding their show, but it was in (I believe) Texas, and they were still billing themselves as the largest show in the world.

Now, however, I can't find any information about them.

Does anyone know if they still exist? I'd always toyed with the notion of going out there...

On a scarcely-related note, does anyone know of any really cool shows these days? I understand there are some good ones in Arizona? For some reason, I've had the itch recently... the shows down in Costa Mesa are decent, but they always leave me wanting more...

ALSystems
04-24-2011, 4:16 AM
I'm not sure what happened to the Great Western Gun Show?
I thought it moved to Las Vegas and maybe Texas later. Their website link is dead now:
http://www.greatwesternshow.com/

HisDivineShadow
04-24-2011, 8:04 AM
So, when are they planning to start up the jerky trucks and expand their shows to something approaching Great Western size? ;)

This! Crossroads shows are miniscule compared to the old Pomona show. The Costa Mesa show is decent, but the Ontario and Del Mar venues are almost not worth going to unless you really need something.:(

jpigeon
04-24-2011, 9:24 AM
Is that really true that gun owners are worried that they won't be able to buy guns and have free commerce? I am totally for a person's or a community's rights to sell or not sell whatever they want. For instance, I support a woman's right to have an abortion, but I also support if a community does not want an abortion clinic in their neighborhood, or an individual doctor if he or they said they do not want to engage in that 'commerce'.

Killing womens children is not commerce. You must be sick in the head.

jpigeon
04-24-2011, 9:27 AM
I want the "worlds biggest gun show" to return. Gun shows are watered down in CA. Seems like more and more yard sale stuff ends up at the shows as time passes.

retired
04-24-2011, 9:59 AM
Those were the good old days weren't they.;) Living in Chino Hills and working at Walnut Sheriff station at the time, I was very familiar with the gun show at the fair grounds in Pomona. There was so much to see, that as one member said, it sometimes would take more than one day to see it all.

I remember all of the military clubs that were scattered around the grounds and their military vehicles and weapons.

The amount of people walking around with guns they were trying to sell was so many more than what is seen at the CM show. Between those people and the vendors, you could really see and buy some really cool stuff.

It would take a court decision to change the prohibition since the supervisors and the present Sheriff would be very vocal in their efforts to leave it the way it is, no matter how much tax money would be generated.

jonyg
04-24-2011, 10:18 AM
I wish I was around to have gone there...

SCMA-1
04-24-2011, 10:38 AM
I used to go to the Great Western at least 2 of the 3 days of every show, the may, November and the December show. Just loved walking past those 5.5 miles of tables, both sides of course.:D And of course, back in the good ole days, when you could buy all long guns cash and carry with no waiting period. The big show just before the Roberti Roos '89 AW ban took effect, I went to the Great Western and I purchased 3 so called Assault rifles, paid my cash and slunged all of them over my shoulders and walked out.:D I would buy "high cap" mags all day, paying $5 for GI 30rd alloy AR mags, the same for 30 rd Chicom 30 rd AK mags, 20 Rd. FAL mags, etc. I was buying MWG 90 rd drums and Chicom 75 rd steel drums for $40 each. each time I went to the GW, I would pick up a whole back pack full of cheap high cap mags.:cool:

I really miss those days. As far all the FFL's back then, we had some great Firearms dealers, such as B&B Sales in N. Hollywood/Orange county, B&E in Cypress, and of course, Beach cities Armory/Cerritos Armory, National Guns Sales, There were so many, I can't even recall all of them.:D



I really miss those days.:gunsmilie:



It brings a tear to my eyes when I remember those days at the Greatest Gun show on earth at the Pomona Fairgrounds.

Apocalypsenerd
04-24-2011, 1:24 PM
IMO opinion, gunshows aren't what they used to be before the AWB and roster. Many of the items we might compare and contrast for our personal use, aren't allowed to be sold anymore.

It is an infringement on commerce, personal property rights, and the 2A.

RRangel
04-24-2011, 2:45 PM
OK, I don't want to make my first real post a buzzkill, and I am personally totally cool with gunshows, but if the people of LA don't want them....isn't that their right? Why go to court? Such as not wanting a strip club or a liquor store in your neighborhood...isn't that the right of the people?? Anyway, as long as you still have that 'keep and bear' right, I think both sides can be happy...right?

You're under the misguided impression that "people of LA don't want them." The show was actually held in Pomona which is a long way off. The attack on the gun show was purely political having nothing to do with safety and more to do with being ultra politically correct.

The people of Los Angeles don't want a Pomona Gun Show but it's ok in Glendale right next door to Los Angeles City proper? That logic does not make sense.

Agent Akin
04-24-2011, 2:58 PM
Several friends and I would actually drive down to LA from Fresno for the express purpose of going to the show, at least once a year, from maybe '92 until I moved down here in '97, then I went at least twice a year... ahhh, the good old days...

Heh... like you, that's also mainly where my stock of normal capacity magazines came from, even for weapons I still don't own yet but want one day...

I used to go to the Great Western at least 2 of the 3 days of every show, the may, November and the December show. Just loved walking past those 5.5 miles of tables, both sides of course.:D And of course, back in the good ole days, when you could buy all long guns cash and carry with no waiting period. The big show just before the Roberti Roos '89 AW ban took effect, I went to the Great Western and I purchased 3 so called Assault rifles, paid my cash and slunged all of them over my shoulders and walked out.:D I would buy "high cap" mags all day, paying $5 for GI 30rd alloy AR mags, the same for 30 rd Chicom 30 rd AK mags, 20 Rd. FAL mags, etc. I was buying MWG 90 rd drums and Chicom 75 rd steel drums for $40 each. each time I went to the GW, I would pick up a whole back pack full of cheap high cap mags.:cool:

I really miss those days. As far all the FFL's back then, we had some great Firearms dealers, such as B&B Sales in N. Hollywood/Orange county, B&E in Cypress, and of course, Beach cities Armory/Cerritos Armory, National Guns Sales, There were so many, I can't even recall all of them.:D



I really miss those days.:gunsmilie:



It brings a tear to my eyes when I remember those days at the Greatest Gun show on earth at the Pomona Fairgrounds.

Uxi
04-26-2011, 8:13 AM
I used to go to the Great Western at least 2 of the 3 days of every show, the may, November and the December show. Just loved walking past those 5.5 miles of tables, both sides of course.:D And of course, back in the good ole days, when you could buy all long guns cash and carry with no waiting period. The big show just before the Roberti Roos '89 AW ban took effect, I went to the Great Western and I purchased 3 so called Assault rifles, paid my cash and slunged all of them over my shoulders and walked out.:D I would buy "high cap" mags all day, paying $5 for GI 30rd alloy AR mags, the same for 30 rd Chicom 30 rd AK mags, 20 Rd. FAL mags, etc. I was buying MWG 90 rd drums and Chicom 75 rd steel drums for $40 each. each time I went to the GW, I would pick up a whole back pack full of cheap high cap mags.:cool:


Almost makes me want to weep (or rage) to think that California wasn't always so insane and dysfunctional as it is today. That sounds awesome.

ryno066
05-20-2011, 8:03 AM
OK, I don't want to make my first real post a buzzkill, and I am personally totally cool with gunshows, but if the people of LA don't want them....isn't that their right? Why go to court? Such as not wanting a strip club or a liquor store in your neighborhood...isn't that the right of the people?? Anyway, as long as you still have that 'keep and bear' right, I think both sides can be happy...right?

Nope. thinks 50/60s black rights. Hicks didn't want them in the schools. Its not always the choice of the majority. Thast why we are a republic and not a democracy.

Curley Red
05-20-2011, 8:59 AM
The main problem I saw with the big gun shows was that there were to many people selling guns under the tables. When I lived down south I use to go to those shows and was amazed at what could be bought without any paperwork. It only takes one or two bad people to ruin it for everyone else.

curtisfong
05-20-2011, 9:24 AM
The main problem I saw with the big gun shows was that there were to many people selling guns under the tables. When I lived down south I use to go to those shows and was amazed at what could be bought without any paperwork. It only takes one or two bad people to ruin it for everyone else.

ROFL. Can you toss that one lower and slower over the plate please?

Nick Justice
05-20-2011, 9:39 AM
OK, I don't want to make my first real post a buzzkill, and I am personally totally cool with gunshows, but if the people of LA don't want them....isn't that their right? Why go to court? Such as not wanting a strip club or a liquor store in your neighborhood...isn't that the right of the people?? Anyway, as long as you still have that 'keep and bear' right, I think both sides can be happy...right?

No. "Rights" does not mean being free from problems or worries or risk or responsibility. Rights and responsibilities allow us to learn, to deal with the risks, to grow and mature, to handle problems. There is no freedom without risk. No risk = no learning, no responsibility, no growth.

I do not have the right to a risk-free society. I do not have a right to be relieved of responsibility. On the contrary, I have the duty to embrace responsibility. If you do not allow me to learn to handle responsibility, you never give me the chance to learn, grow or mature from it. And in today's sociaty, with all its risks and temptations, I need to learn responsibility

Alcohol: It has been around for thousands of years, and it will never go away. I have to learn responsibility to deal with it.

Strip clubs: Sex has been around longer than humans! It is what we do to reproduce. I need to learn to act responsibly, or I will get unexpected consequences which I may not be ready to handle.

Guns: Been around for 700 years or so. Like alcohol, they will never disappear. They require responsibility, because one false move can be so harmful.

I must be given the opportunities to learn and grow, or my entire life will be wasted, and I will never be able to help future generations learn these responsibilites.

These principles are centuries old. We cannot abandon them now.

AndrewMendez
05-20-2011, 10:53 AM
I wonder how much it would cost to try and do this again. I would love nothing more then to be the person that brought gun shows back to LA. Maybe a smallfirst sure, and increase it every show.

Uxi
05-20-2011, 12:35 PM
Why does the Ontario show stink so much? Think they could have went 20 miles or so farther east on the 10 Fwy and had access to the facilities by Ontario airport (in San Bernardino county, which is a lot friendly than LA County).

RRangel
05-22-2011, 8:05 PM
The main problem I saw with the big gun shows was that there were to many people selling guns under the tables. When I lived down south I use to go to those shows and was amazed at what could be bought without any paperwork. It only takes one or two bad people to ruin it for everyone else.

Your post reads like someone who's been living behind the iron curtain for too long.

fred40
05-22-2011, 10:19 PM
If the Pomona Show does come back, which I doubt. It will suck just like any other show in California. Back in the 80's we didn't have a roster or the 10rd mag bs. Oh lets not forget the featureless builds.

SVT-40
05-22-2011, 10:43 PM
The Great western was the biggest gun show in the world. Period bar none. Many factors made it so. I had a 01 FFL in those days, and the transfer of long guns was just a 4473 form and away it went. No waiting periods. For a time also curio and relic handguns were also cash and carry after filling out the 4473.

People literally came from all over the world to the show, as it was not only a "gun show" but a militarily, surplus, medal, knife Ect. show.

Dealers set up day was Thursday at noon, and the show closed at 6PM that day. For dealers Friday opened at 0900 and the public was allowed to enter at 1100. Sat was 0900 until 2000. Sunday was 0900 until 1800

So for dealers the show was a four day affair. After the Berlin wall fell and the USSR dissolved. Many Russian and eastern block types came to the show selling a treasure trove of once unobtainable Soviet items.

I spent more $$$ than I care to remember buying these items. One interesting purchase was new in the wrapper East German AK-74 5.45 magazines. At the time there were no rifles available to fit these mag's so they were dirt cheap. A set of four brand new Bakelite mags in the EG pouch cost me $7.00...... I bought 20 sets...

One especially maddening experience at the Great Western was during the Rodney King riots. They cancelled the show during set up day on Thursday for "safety reasons"... People were PISSED as many had traveled from all over the world to attend. The show would have been the safest place in LA county.

I really miss that show, as I met some great friends there, and made buckets full of money.

joefrank64k
05-23-2011, 5:56 AM
GW was the best...no matter how many times I attended, I never saw the whole show (too big). I remember the throngs of people in the buildings shuffling along between the endless rows of tables.

Even the current December Phoenix show (which is great) doesn't compare...

Good times!!!

Agent Akin
05-25-2011, 4:59 AM
Speaking of out of state gun shows, if I wanted to visit the USA specifically to visit a big, non-neutered show, is there one in particular that folks would recommend?

Thanks!

louie
05-25-2011, 7:28 AM
I was both an dealer and customer for many years at the Great Western show. The original one was at the Great Western Fairgrounds in Commerce,CA off the 5 freeway. They knocked it down to build senior housing in the early 80's. They then moved to the fairgrounds in Pomona. It was a great show, but even if they brought it back tomorrow, it would never be the same. In those days it was like the AZ shows, tons of private sellers. You didn't DROS long guns, or C and R's from dealers, and the minute you came through the tunnel from the parking lot, guys were selling their stuff. There were AK and AR rifles galore. I bought a Russian SKS from BE Guns for 87.00. They dropped the price since B&B guns in the big building had them for 89.00. Cases of Chinese AK ammo were 79.00 to 99.00 for 1100 rounds on clips. It was a great show, which CA laws will never allow to be the same again. Hey, anyone remember the CA girls in their tiny bikinis?? They sold their calendars, and made more money than anyone at the show!!!