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View Full Version : Palmer vs. DC - How long can they delay?


Big Ben
04-22-2011, 11:05 AM
I was just reading through the CGF Wiki, and noticed the posting/thread regarding Palmer vs. DC being "very overdue" as of Sept 2010.

So, how long can the judge delay the ruling? If the ruling was "very overdue" in Sept 2010, we are now "very overdue + 7 months."

I realize there isn't really anything that can be done, but "Justice delayed is justice denied." Frustration.

hoffmang
04-22-2011, 11:15 AM
There is very little outside date driving this beyond some shaming from the rest of the bench. The judge's docket had been a bit crazy with some National Security cases last year however. Also, he may be waiting on the Heller II appeal which was argued at the same time as Dearth. The opinion in Dearth came out a week or two ago.

-Gene

Dreaded Claymore
04-22-2011, 12:16 PM
In before Kcbrown tells us that the courts will simply never issue the opinion because they are all-powerful malevolent gods.

Andy Taylor
04-22-2011, 2:36 PM
There is very little outside date driving this beyond some shaming from the rest of the bench. The judge's docket had been a bit crazy with some National Security cases last year however. Also, he may be waiting on the Heller II appeal which was argued at the same time as Dearth. The opinion in Dearth came out a week or two ago.

-Gene


Ok, somehow I missed Dearth. What is it and how was it decided? Good or bad for us? Layman's terms please.

N6ATF
04-22-2011, 2:40 PM
Heh.

scarville
04-22-2011, 2:41 PM
I was just reading through the CGF Wiki, and noticed the posting/thread regarding Palmer vs. DC being "very overdue" as of Sept 2010.

So, how long can the judge delay the ruling? If the ruling was "very overdue" in Sept 2010, we are now "very overdue + 7 months."

I realize there isn't really anything that can be done, but "Justice delayed is justice denied." Frustration.
Maybe the judge is waiting for

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_814YV4febik/TJ6RJwov5iI/AAAAAAAAMXk/c5Cv9Pbwl0c/s1600/when_hell_freezes_over_card-p1373719691833352523f1a_400.jpg

Librarian
04-22-2011, 2:55 PM
Ok, somehow I missed Dearth. What is it and how was it decided? Good or bad for us? Layman's terms please.

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Dearth_v._Holder

Not yet decided.

Paul S
04-22-2011, 3:05 PM
In before Kcbrown tells us that the courts will simply never issue the opinion because they are all-powerful malevolent gods.

And this opinion is bad how? :D

I'm sorry...I just couldn't resist. The devil made me do it.

I thoroughly understand the rationale behind Gene's explanation of the delay...
but I still believe the delay to be inordinate. But then...in the greater scheme of things we are mere peasants and our opinions mean little to those who are on the bench .

safewaysecurity
04-22-2011, 3:27 PM
This case will not be the first decided case. This judge is on the slow side with all his cases.

Andy Taylor
04-22-2011, 4:06 PM
Thank you Librarian.

Big Ben
04-22-2011, 5:05 PM
Ok, somehow I missed Dearth. What is it and how was it decided? Good or bad for us? Layman's terms please.

There was a thread breaking down Dearth last week. Lots of good discussion and analysis, plus plenty of educated/uneducated opinions. :-)

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=421324

kcbrown
04-22-2011, 6:32 PM
In before Kcbrown tells us that the courts will simply never issue the opinion because they are all-powerful malevolent gods.

:rofl2:

press1280
04-22-2011, 6:43 PM
Is Palmer approaching some kind of Federal case record for longest case?

yellowfin
04-22-2011, 7:34 PM
It would be sad, ironic, interesting, and given how weird this whole run of jurisprudence has been so far not at all implausible and somehow strangely fitting if the Williams v Maryland case gets ruled on by the Supreme Court before we even get the first ruling on Palmer.

Paladin
04-22-2011, 7:54 PM
Maybe we should stage a hunger strike outside the judge's chambers? LOL

BoxesOfLiberty
04-23-2011, 1:19 AM
In before Kcbrown tells us that the courts will simply never issue the opinion because they are all-powerful malevolent gods.

Do those Wheaties taste alright?

N6ATF
04-23-2011, 1:43 AM
It would be sad, ironic, interesting, and given how weird this whole run of jurisprudence has been so far not at all implausible and somehow strangely fitting if the Williams v Maryland case gets ruled on by the Supreme Court before we even get the first ruling on Palmer.

HAHAHAHA

ALSystems
04-23-2011, 8:21 AM
In before Kcbrown tells us that the courts will simply never issue the opinion because they are all-powerful malevolent gods.
If the Palmer Judge is an anti 2nd Amendment Judge, why wouldn't he simply sit on this case forever. A case with no ruling can not be appealed.

If this judge has no one with the power to fire him for incompetence or some other reason, then the judge can effectively do whatever he wants. There has got to be something stronger than public shame to get them moving.

Kharn
04-23-2011, 9:43 AM
It would be sad, ironic, interesting, and given how weird this whole run of jurisprudence has been so far not at all implausible and somehow strangely fitting if the Williams v Maryland case gets ruled on by the Supreme Court before we even get the first ruling on Palmer.
If cert is granted, Palmer is stuck in a pickle: beat Williams and risk being wrong and embarrassed (or be right and get a few good cites in a monumental scotus decision, always good for when he tries to move to the Circuit court), or wait and hope the chief judge for the district will accept his reason for the delay and stay off his back. With this judge, I am not sure which way he will go.

Gray Peterson
04-23-2011, 9:52 AM
If the Palmer Judge is an anti 2nd Amendment Judge, why wouldn't he simply sit on this case forever. A case with no ruling can not be appealed.

If this judge has no one with the power to fire him for incompetence or some other reason, then the judge can effectively do whatever he wants. There has got to be something stronger than public shame to get them moving.

This is a case of First Impression so he has the capability of sitting on it for a bit (though I've looked at his case load he's been hammered as Gene has repeatedly pointing out).

If Williams was decided before Palmer was (let's assume we win Williams, or else we'll be talking about the 28th Amendment), our side would file what's called a supplementary authorities letter. The federal rules of civil procedure may allow for asking of a preliminary injunction even after an MSJ has been filed when there's a positive carry case above it. Asks for preliminary injunctions are on an expedited timetable.

press1280
04-23-2011, 11:54 AM
This is a case of First Impression so he has the capability of sitting on it for a bit (though I've looked at his case load he's been hammered as Gene has repeatedly pointing out).

If Williams was decided before Palmer was (let's assume we win Williams, or else we'll be talking about the 28th Amendment), our side would file what's called a supplementary authorities letter. The federal rules of civil procedure may allow for asking of a preliminary injunction even after an MSJ has been filed when there's a positive carry case above it. Asks for preliminary injunctions are on an expedited timetable.

If Williams gets certiorari, then should we expect all carry cases to pretty much come to a grinding halt and just wait for SCOTUS' opinion?

bulgron
04-23-2011, 12:41 PM
If Williams gets certiorari, then should we expect all carry cases to pretty much come to a grinding halt and just wait for SCOTUS' opinion?

'A grinding halt', as opposed to the breathtaking, heart-pumping, warp speed roller coaster that we've been getting on these cases so far? :rofl:

Gray Peterson
04-23-2011, 12:44 PM
If Williams gets certiorari, then should we expect all carry cases to pretty much come to a grinding halt and just wait for SCOTUS' opinion?

If either party gives notice to the court, or the court sua sponte notices the Supreme Court cert petition, yes.

I believe that we'll know if cert is granted by the end of June, or September.

N6ATF
04-23-2011, 12:50 PM
'A grinding halt', as opposed to the breathtaking, heart-pumping, warp speed roller coaster that we've been getting on these cases so far? :rofl:

BAHAHAHA

kcbrown
04-23-2011, 2:57 PM
If either party gives notice to the court, or the court sua sponte notices the Supreme Court cert petition, yes.

I believe that we'll know if cert is granted by the end of June, or September.

You mention both June and September here. Why both, instead of just one? I'm curious how these things are determined...

yellowfin
04-23-2011, 3:34 PM
You mention both June and September here. Why both, instead of just one? I'm curious how these things are determined...They review cases for cert in batches, determining which will be heard and if so when.

ETA: AHA! Our marvelous Maryland allies found the docket here http://www.supremecourt.gov/Search.aspx?FileName=/docketfiles/10-1207.htm which says a response is due May 5th. Holy cow that's just a few days away!

...and anyone says that stupid joke about 14 days again should be keel hauled down an oil tanker. :7::nono:

Librarian
04-23-2011, 4:24 PM
...and anyone says that stupid joke about 14 days again should be keel hauled down an oil tanker. :7::nono:

Very well; counting today, and not counting the 5th, it's a mere 857,142 micro-fortnights.

Kharn
04-23-2011, 4:34 PM
The May 5 response is MD AG saying why the SC should not take the case, not when the SC will/will-not grant cert.

June or September is due to the SC taking July and August off, only emergency (death penalty, etc) cases are considered during those months.

yellowfin
04-23-2011, 5:12 PM
Somehow I'm curious to see what Gansler could possibly have to say in reply. I'm also very eager to see him get DEVOURED by Halbrook, Scalia, Alito, et al. like a rookie gladiator wearing bacon scented after shave.

bulgron
04-23-2011, 5:37 PM
Somehow I'm curious to see what Gansler could possibly have to say in reply. I'm also very eager to see him get DEVOURED by Halbrook, Scalia, Alito, et al. like a rookie gladiator wearing bacon scented after shave.

I'm sure it'll be a "But think of the children" reply.

yellowfin
05-30-2011, 8:40 AM
Still nothing? (I know today's an off day.)

press1280
05-30-2011, 9:08 AM
Still nothing? (I know today's an off day.)

Not a darn thing. I have to wonder at what point "something" has to be done. I know everyone says that we just have to wait, but what happens if another year passes, with nothing yet again?

pointedstick
05-30-2011, 9:22 AM
Not a darn thing. I have to wonder at what point "something" has to be done. I know everyone says that we just have to wait, but what happens if another year passes, with nothing yet again?

What would that something be? We can't badger the court. We have to wait patiently for the all-powerful malevolent gods. :D

Purple K
06-09-2011, 8:08 PM
Heavy sigh...

yellowfin
06-09-2011, 8:39 PM
Geez, more stallin than Russia in the 1940s...

curtisfong
06-09-2011, 8:44 PM
Reminds me of Delaware bankruptcy court, where they routinely delay cases until all remaining assets are distributed to various lawyers via billing, until the carcass is clean, and every single creditor is left with.... nothing.

ALSystems
06-09-2011, 9:09 PM
I read that in 10 (to the 100th Power) years in the future, the universe is cold and dark. All the galaxies, stars, planets and even protons and neutrons are gone. Only a incredibly thin gas of positronium and a few black holes will remain.

This must be what the Palmer Judge is waiting for. A decision late enough it won't matter.

OleCuss
06-09-2011, 9:28 PM
IIRC, the court has been burdened with many weight matters. I don't think there is good evidence that there is a deliberate delay in handing down the opinion.

Blackhawk556
06-09-2011, 9:51 PM
This is crazy. The delay is just pathetic at this point.