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ottomatic
04-21-2011, 9:43 PM
This seemed the best place to ask about this:

One of my FFL's requires charging the CA Use Tax on out of state transfers. I have a couple of theories why but that isn't pertinent.

My question is what tax rate am I allowed to demand? (if I am able to demand one)

Little background:

My DL is issued to the address I have used since joining the military, finished my service, and have been going to school in a different county since being discharged.

Residency has yet to be defined in a concrete way to me despite all the lurking I have done here and googling

I would say that being a student has some effect since I am only residing here for my education.
(Defining this would also clear up any questions I have regarding a CCW)

Back to the point: Can I demand that the tax rate be from the address listed on my DL (DROS address), or my temporary* residence address, or do I have to pay the rate associated with the FFL address?

* meaning I need clarification on what determines residence, since I am registered to vote, registered for my vehicle etc at a permanent address while attending college.
I have all intent on returning to my permanent address.

Thanks, B.

tenpercentfirearms
04-21-2011, 9:46 PM
If your FFL is collecting tax, it is sales tax, not use tax. You can demand all you want, but the FFL will probably charge you the sales tax rate that is collected in their area. In theory they could let you pay a lesser amount, but they are still on the hook for the full sales tax as stipulated by the BOE for their area.

Your analogy would be similar to "My Best Buy doesn't have the latest COD I want. I am ordering it off their website and it is being delivered to their store in Burbank. Can I demand that they only charge me use tax on my tax rate in Taft?" You know the answer to that one.

Here is a good thread on what you need to know.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=366781

ottomatic
04-21-2011, 9:58 PM
After reading posts from the link you provided I am educated in the tax bs now thanks. gonna have to read it once more, not just speed read the crap out of it though.

The reasoning behind my analogy resides in the fact that the store that I bought my rifle/whatever from doesn't have a nexus in CA, like many retailers, therefore I am required to pay the use tax when filing my taxes. That would be the tax rate of my residence at which it was shipped to.

If your FFL is collecting tax, it is sales tax, not use tax. You can demand all you want, but the FFL will probably charge you the sales tax rate that is collected in their area. In theory they could let you pay a lesser amount, but they are still on the hook for the full sales tax as stipulated by the BOE for their area.

Your analogy would be similar to "My Best Buy doesn't have the latest COD I want. I am ordering it off their website and it is being delivered to their store in Burbank. Can I demand that they only charge me use tax on my tax rate in Taft?" You know the answer to that one.

Here is a good thread on what you need to know.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=366781

tenpercentfirearms
04-21-2011, 10:08 PM
After reading posts from the link you provided I am educated in the tax bs now thanks. gonna have to read it once more, not just speed read the crap out of it though.

The reasoning behind my analogy resides in the fact that the store that I bought my rifle/whatever from doesn't have a nexus in CA, like many retailers, therefore I am required to pay the use tax when filing my taxes. That would be the tax rate of my residence at which it was shipped to.

That is correct. You should be charged the use tax of the place it was delivered to. Except, it is being delivered to a retail gun shop which the BOE considers the retailer of your firearm (assuming the firearm was purchased by you from a retailer out of state). So the sales tax will be charged at the sales tax of the retailer you are doing the transfer from whom the BOE considers the final retailer for tax purposes.

There are dealers out there that don't collect the sales tax which means they are paying it for you in theory. At which time I wouldn't claim the use tax and if the BOE ever asked just tell them that according to their rules the retail gun shop that ran the DROS is the retailer and they should have remitted the sales tax.

A super raw deal for the FFL not charging you sales tax, but hey, that is the liability they assume.

taperxz
04-21-2011, 10:16 PM
If this is the case in California, how come i can go any where to buy a car and the sales tax is applied to where i register the vehicle??? Food for thought anyway!

ottomatic
04-21-2011, 10:22 PM
I hear ya. Thanks.

Crazy that you can go buy a vehicle at a dealership (in-state) and pay the rate for the location at which you live, but you get reamed for FFL purchases.

Seems like the state has a job on which the desrciption reads " you must sit around all day and find ways to screw with any firearm purchaser/seller/owner, and this job requires thinking outside the box in a way to apply this scrutiny to all possible state departments."

Any insight on my residence question?

ottomatic
04-21-2011, 10:23 PM
ya beat me to it...
If this is the case in California, how come i can go any where to buy a car and the sales tax is applied to where i register the vehicle??? Food for thought anyway!

bw762308
04-21-2011, 10:54 PM
The transfer for consideration of motor vehicles, watercraft, and aircraft have their own specific regulations. In the case of a car sold by a licensed dealer, the tax rate applies based on where the purchaser resides (place of use) and not the location of the vehicle dealer. The tax is made up of a state component, a county component, city or local component, and special district taxes. The difference between tax rates is generally found in the "district" taxes specific to each county since the state tax component (and to some extent the city and county tax components) of the tax rate is uniform throughout the state. This could work in your favor of course if you live in a county with a lower overall tax rate than where the dealer is located. Whether or not a tax is applicable at all also depends on whether or not the seller is considered to be a "retailer". If it is not sold by a retailer, then no sales tax (or use tax) will apply. But again there is an exception in the case of a used motor vehicle, because a "use" tax will apply when a person registers the vehicle. Arguably the private party seller of a used motor vehichle is making an occasional sale and would not normally be considered a retailer (except if the seller is a used car dealer).

Mesa Tactical
04-22-2011, 6:04 AM
Answers here (http://www.boe.ca.gov/ads/news06.htm).

El Toro
04-22-2011, 4:36 PM
I dont see where the local dealer is 'required' to collect the use tax on behalf of the state. It is the purchaser's responsibility to report the sale and file the tax. Has the state now made FFLs tax collectors for sales which they do not actually have an interest in the items sold?

halifax
04-23-2011, 6:39 AM
I dont see where the local dealer is 'required' to collect the use tax on behalf of the state. It is the purchaser's responsibility to report the sale and file the tax. Has the state now made FFLs tax collectors for sales which they do not actually have an interest in the items sold?

Did you check post #2 and the links therein?

choprzrul
04-23-2011, 8:25 AM
I hate CA taxes & Sac. tyranny. Nuff said...

jtmkinsd
04-23-2011, 11:55 AM
I dont see where the local dealer is 'required' to collect the use tax on behalf of the state. It is the purchaser's responsibility to report the sale and file the tax. Has the state now made FFLs tax collectors for sales which they do not actually have an interest in the items sold?

It's been that way since 1995...only now BOE is enforcing it and catching up to those who don't comply...and if you have $50,000-$100000 laying around, you could afford the back taxes, penalty, and interest an audit would bring you.