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View Full Version : Is it legal to sell high capacity mags?


Geofois
04-20-2011, 2:53 PM
Or do we need to sell them as kits? I noticed lots of kits for sale, but no actual magazines. Is it legal to have all the parts for a mag and sell them as a kit for repair only on this site? I don't want to break any laws or site rules. Thanks in advance. Everyone here has been really helpful.

safewaysecurity
04-20-2011, 2:54 PM
You need to sell them as kits. It's California law.

Geofois
04-20-2011, 2:56 PM
ok thanks for the heads up I appreciate that. Now I need to figure out how much to sell my 75 round drum kit for ak and 2 30 round mag kits. I think I saw one for $120 but it was for yugo or some eastern block country.

G1500
04-20-2011, 3:00 PM
lol

fd15k
04-20-2011, 3:01 PM
At the very least you can sell them as magazines to FFLs (not sure if high-cap permit required, or any FFL can buy in-state) and to buyers in other states. Also, somebody might fill-in about exempt persons such as LEOs.

Geofois
04-20-2011, 3:02 PM
I just realized I even have a 30 round kit for my s&w 9mm and 20 round kit that I never used. I wonder what else is in my garage, hehe.

Geofois
04-20-2011, 3:04 PM
I called an FFL in Alhambra. He says he is license to buy high cap mags. I'm sure he'll lowball me bigtime. I want an ar lower so maybe I see if he'll work something out.

Vipersx911
04-20-2011, 3:06 PM
I just realized I even have a 30 round kit for my s&w 9mm and 20 round kit that I never used. I wonder what else is in my garage, hehe.

Is the drum kit for an AK-47 or an AK-74?

Also you can simply ship them out of state... High Capacity magazines are still in high demand out of state as they are getting rather hard to find or were last time I was out in AZ. I am sure there would be a good market for them out there and that way you dont need to even break them down.

Geofois
04-20-2011, 3:43 PM
Is the drum kit for an AK-47 or an AK-74?

Also you can simply ship them out of state... High Capacity magazines are still in high demand out of state as they are getting rather hard to find or were last time I was out in AZ. I am sure there would be a good market for them out there and that way you dont need to even break them down.
It's for ak 47. I'll look into that as long as shipping is legal, thanks for the tip

taperxz
04-20-2011, 3:47 PM
Wow this thread sure seems like an ad that should read "for sale to the highest bidder"

wildhawker
04-20-2011, 3:52 PM
Lots of fail in this thread. See http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Large-capacity_magazine_restrictions.

Current Restrictions

Penal Code 12020 states:
12020 (a)(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes
to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or
offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-
capacity magazine.

12020 (c)(25) As used in this section, "large-capacity
magazine" means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity
to accept more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to
include any of the following:
(A) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so
that itcannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.
(B) A .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.
(C) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action
firearm.
The California Department of Justice Bureau of Firearms FAQ summarizes the restrictions well:
9. If I have a large-capacity magazine, do I need to get rid of
it?

No. Continued possession of large-capacity magazines (able to
accept more than 10 rounds) that you owned in California before
January 1, 2000, is not prohibited. However as of January 1,
2000, it is illegal to buy, manufacture, import, keep for sale,
expose for sale, give or lend any large-capacity magazine in
California except by law enforcement agencies, California
peace officers, or licensed dealers.

(PC Section 12020 (b)(19-29))
Simple possession of a large-capacity magazine is not prohibited. Note that it is illegal to offer or expose for sale a large-capacity magazine in California. This has the practical implication that one can not list a large-capacity magazine for sale on the internet to in or out of state buyers. One can disassemble the large-capacity magazine and sell the parts in or out of state. Note that the Bureau of Firearms statement that you can not buy large-capacity magazines is not supported by the Penal Code.

Large-capacity magazines that were legally possessed by their owner in California at any time prior to January 1, 2000 can be legally re-imported into California. If you were a past resident of California that possessed large-capacity magazines in the state prior to the ban, you can move back in with them. Current residents that legally possess large-capacity magazines can travel out of the state with those large-capacity magazines and return to the state (Penal Code 12020 (b)(23)).

Geofois
04-20-2011, 4:05 PM
I was thinking that also. Thanks everyone. Let's shut this down n I'll post on parts when I figure it out.

CHS
04-20-2011, 5:59 PM
At the very least you can sell them as magazines to FFLs (not sure if high-cap permit required, or any FFL can buy in-state) and to buyers in other states. Also, somebody might fill-in about exempt persons such as LEOs.

Is the drum kit for an AK-47 or an AK-74?

Also you can simply ship them out of state... High Capacity magazines are still in high demand out of state as they are getting rather hard to find or were last time I was out in AZ. I am sure there would be a good market for them out there and that way you dont need to even break them down.

It is illegal to offer or expose for sale Large Capacity magazines in the state of California unless you are a licensed dealer with a large-capacity magazine permit. Period.

If the buyer is out of state, you are STILL violating CA law by selling to them large-capacity magazines. It makes no difference if they are in a state that allows them. That is the way the law is written.

If you have large-capacity magazines that you would like to sell off, you may ONLY sell them as parts kits and they may only be advertised as parts kits.

Otherwise: Felony.

bubbapug1
04-20-2011, 7:30 PM
What about a large cap magazine that has been blocked to only accept 10 rounds?

Does it need to have its base plate epoxied or riveted to be considered permanently altered?

As soon as you would take it apart it would once again be a rebuild kit would it not?

G1500
04-21-2011, 2:17 AM
What about a large cap magazine that has been blocked to only accept 10 rounds?
it is no longer a LCM, and can be sold to anyone.

Does it need to have its base plate epoxied or riveted to be considered permanently altered?
No, some people disagree. YMMV

As soon as you would take it apart it would once again be a rebuild kit would it not?
See answer above. Some say yes, some say no. It is like asking what color crayon is the best. Everyone has a different opinion. But I do believe that once you make something permanent, that you should not use it to rebuild a LCM. Again, YMMV.


See bold.

bubbapug1
04-21-2011, 9:02 AM
So what color crayon is best?

G1500
04-21-2011, 10:38 AM
I prefer magic markers.

G1500
04-21-2011, 10:40 AM
These are sweet.

http://image.misterart.com/grouppix/528x352/5000/g5004.jpg

Geofois
04-21-2011, 10:46 AM
Please don't squeeze the Charmin. Uh oh, offtopic=/

stix213
04-21-2011, 12:50 PM
Don't sell or destroy legally owned high cap mags!

This thread is like going on an ASPCA forum and asking how do you best drown puppies...

CHS
04-21-2011, 1:59 PM
What about a large cap magazine that has been blocked to only accept 10 rounds?


Then it's still a large-capacity magazine because it hasn't been permanently limited to 10rd's. Just sticking a block in is in no way shape or form "permanent".

bubbapug1
04-21-2011, 10:32 PM
There you have it...BDSMCHS HAS SPOKEN. I was on the fence on this but no longer.

Epoxy or rivets it is.

G1500
04-22-2011, 12:03 AM
There you have it...BDSMCHS HAS SPOKEN. I was on the fence on this but no longer.

Epoxy or rivets it is.

Don't forget duct tape and Elmer's glue.

gturner140
04-28-2011, 1:47 PM
Rivets can be drilled out - so must be epoxied too, but not the kind that can be melted away. So, I guess welding is in order, but not spot as it can be popped. Hell, I can refashion the bottom metal if I cut above the weld...All kidding aside - what does permanent really mean? At what point does law remain what a reasonable person would conclude? Has anyone witnessed local LEO attempting to wrench apart a converted hi-cap? I just can't believe it has come to this : (

CSACANNONEER
04-28-2011, 2:01 PM
Rivets can be drilled out - so must be epoxied too, but not the kind that can be melted away. So, I guess welding is in order, but not spot as it can be popped. Hell, I can refashion the bottom metal if I cut above the weld...All kidding aside - what does permanent really mean? At what point does law remain what a reasonable person would conclude? Has anyone witnessed local LEO attempting to wrench apart a converted hi-cap? I just can't believe it has come to this : (

Welding can be ground down too. There is no definition of what "permanent" means when it comes to magazines. So, since rivets alone would reqiure cutting tools (drill bits are cutting tools), it's my opinion that a riveted mag is as "permanent" as one which is blocked and welded closed. Either way, anyone with a few tools could cut them apart and refabricate a +10 round mag from the cut up parts.

Rossi357
04-28-2011, 3:54 PM
Let's say I had purchased a tec .22 in Calif in 1975. It came with a 30 rd mag. I lost the gun in a tragic boat accident, but rescued the 30 rd mag. Today I purchase a featureless Ruger 10/22. Would I be legal using the 30 rd mag without a bullet button?

stix213
04-28-2011, 4:28 PM
Let's say I had purchased a tec .22 in Calif in 1975. It came with a 30 rd mag. I lost the gun in a tragic boat accident, but rescued the 30 rd mag. Today I purchase a featureless Ruger 10/22. Would I be legal using the 30 rd mag without a bullet button?

Yes assuming you aren't modifying the magazine in a way where it would not be able to function in the original firearm, and since a rimfire long gun is incapable of ever being considered an AW there is never any need to run a BB on a 10/22.

Rossi357
04-28-2011, 4:51 PM
Ramline makes a mag that fits a Ruger 10/22 and a tec .22. Not sure if it fit the newer Ruger models.

fairfaxjim
04-28-2011, 5:41 PM
Then it's still a large-capacity magazine because it hasn't been permanently limited to 10rd's. Just sticking a block in is in no way shape or form "permanent".

I know I have seen something before regarding permanently on the limited to 10 rd's aspect, but haven't been able to locate anything except cites in threads lately. Is that burried somewhere in the statutes or was that in a DOJ letter/memo? A cite or link would be GREATLY appreciated.

CSACANNONEER
04-28-2011, 5:42 PM
Let's say I had purchased a tec .22 in Calif in 1975. It came with a 30 rd mag. I lost the gun in a tragic boat accident, but rescued the 30 rd mag. Today I purchase a featureless Ruger 10/22. Would I be legal using the 30 rd mag without a bullet button?

As long as you are refering to a 10-22 rifle and not a Charger pistol, you can use your legally owned +10 round mags on 10-22 rifle. Rimfire RIFLES (not handguns) are exempt from AW laws. So, add as many evil features as you want to your 10-22 and don't worry about installing a magazine lock at all.

CSACANNONEER
04-28-2011, 5:44 PM
I know I have seen something before regarding permanently on the limited to 10 rd's aspect, but haven't been able to locate anything except cites in threads lately. Is that burried somewhere in the statutes or was that in a DOJ letter/memo? A cite or link would be GREATLY appreciated.

Look at the actual law.

RomanDad
04-28-2011, 6:22 PM
Could we sticky this once and for all and be done with it?

Geofois
04-28-2011, 6:37 PM
As the author of this post, I second that:D

blackrazor
05-02-2011, 7:31 PM
It is illegal to offer or expose for sale Large Capacity magazines in the state of California unless you are a licensed dealer with a large-capacity magazine permit. Period.

Wrong. Entities operating an armored car business can sell high capacity magazines to anyone they like, any time they like. Period.

Librarian
05-02-2011, 8:07 PM
Could we sticky this once and for all and be done with it?

I have.

Several places.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=387409

The wiki - http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Large-capacity_magazine_restrictions

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=124709

It's the 'be done with it' part that doesn't seem to work.

G1500
05-02-2011, 8:25 PM
I have.

Several places.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=387409

The wiki - http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Large-capacity_magazine_restrictions

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=124709

It's the 'be done with it' part that doesn't seem to work.

But then you would have nothing to do...


;)

spdtiger
05-02-2011, 10:02 PM
I have 9mm prebans and I would like to build a 9mm ar can I use them

Librarian
05-02-2011, 10:17 PM
I have 9mm prebans and I would like to build a 9mm ar can I use them

The word 'preban' has no meaning in California.

You don't say, but since it's in this thread, I infer the magazines are greater than 10 rounds.

If you legally own such magazines, and run a 'featureless' AR-type - that is, no pistol grip, fixed stock, etc - then yes, you may use large-capacity magazines in such an AR.

Read the links in my post, above.