PDA

View Full Version : was my 2nd ammendment right abused?


jon1300
04-19-2011, 3:05 PM
myself, my brother, and a friend of mine were on our way home from the range with my AR in the trunk along with an ammo can and my friends target sitting in the back seat. I get pulled over for my brake light being out(understandable). The officer sees the target and says "i see you have a target, there arent any guns in the vehicle are there?". I am a very nice person, so i said "yes, a safe rifle in the trunk."(should I have not said anything?) he takes my brother, my friend, and my IDs and called for another unit.

once the other unit arrived, they asked all of us, one at a time, to get out of the car and we were frisked. He told me that he was going to check my trunk to see if I complied with what I said. I had no problem with it. He checked it and then they started looking for the registration number to see if the firearm was registered to me.

this is where it gets interesting.

they spend about 20 min. trying to figure out where the registration number is and how to track it. they come to the conclusion that they cant find any record of it in their database and tell me that i have to get documentation from the DOJ or FFL dealer that i bought it from to prove that i own the rifle legally. So they take my rifle and put it under "safekeeping".

I go to my FFL dealer and tell them the story. And supposedly the AR is considered a longgun which doesn't get registered like a pistol does. Therefore, I believe they took my rifle unlawully, against my rights, because the officers weren't educated on their gun laws.

Am I right?

I did get the documents needed to show proof of purchase and the DOJ transaction. When I went into the police department, surprisingly, the person that deals with the safekeeping storage was not there that week. SOOOOOO, i have to wait til next week to even speak to them about it.

Is this something you think I can win? or do you think this will be another infamous gun story where in the end, the law abiding citizen that didn't do anything wrong will never see his rifle again?

I am new to guns and don't know very much, but I do believe my rights were abused.

thanks for reading this long story. any feedback will be greatly appreciated.

JonBoo

CSACANNONEER
04-19-2011, 3:07 PM
Contact the Calguns Foundation!


I'm just curious to hear what agency is this poorly trained. So, who was it?

J.D.Allen
04-19-2011, 3:10 PM
Yeah, what agency?

jon1300
04-19-2011, 3:12 PM
Benicia Police Department. small town in east bay area

jon1300
04-19-2011, 3:13 PM
how do i contact calguns foundation?

LHC30
04-19-2011, 3:13 PM
did they give you a receipt? Once they have the gun, you have to get a clearance letter from DOJ before they can release it to you - even if it was seized unlawfully, which, given the facts above, it was!

Contact CalGuns asap!

safewaysecurity
04-19-2011, 3:15 PM
Call (800) 556-2109

jackblack
04-19-2011, 3:16 PM
myself, my brother, and a friend of mine were on our way home from the range with my AR...JonBoo

Is your AR equipped with a Bullet Button?

You actually should just click on the sticky link at the top of this forum that says:

"If you get in trouble with the law for your guns - PLEASE contact CGF
oaklander "

And follow the directions posted there.

Good luck ;-)

Librarian
04-19-2011, 3:17 PM
how do i contact calguns foundation?
(800) 556-2109 or use this web form:
http://calgunsfoundation.org/component/contact/12-contacts/6-hotline.html

jon1300
04-19-2011, 3:17 PM
ya they gave me a receipt. do i just call the DOJ? I'm guessing I won't see my rifle for a long time...i even asked if I can keep the upper, since it wasn't the part needed and they told me that they were just going to take the whole thing and that I just need the documents to show them. They also took my case...

stix213
04-19-2011, 3:18 PM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=245866

Folks, if you get arrested or cited for your LEGAL weapons, PLEASE CONTACT CGF.

There have been several recent cases where people have not contacted us, and/or have decided to rely on local counsel or public defenders.

If the case is appropriate, we can work WITH your local counsel or public defender to make sure that you get the best representation possible and that your counsel is educated as to your gun rights. We do this at no charge as part of our mission as a non-profit.

In certain cases, we will even have our own attorneys represent you.

If you are concerned about attorney/client confidences being breached, you may contact ME, as I am a licensed attorney and everything you say to me will be kept in confidence.

Remember, we can't help you unless you reach out to us.

To contact us, PM any of the board members such as Kestryll, Ivanimal, Bwiese, Hoffmang, etc. . . OR PM me.

ETA: YOU SHOULD ALSO CALL CGF - 1-800-556-2109.
- THAT NUMBER FORWARDS TO CGF.

PLEASE NOTE THAT THE BUSINESS CARDS THAT BOXBRO MADE ARE AWESOME - HERE'S A LINK TO THEM:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=41063&d=1261674969

It is very important that there continue to be NO SUCCESSFUL OLL PROSECUTIONS IN CALIFORNIA.



Go get em CGF!

safewaysecurity
04-19-2011, 3:20 PM
They shouldn't have taken your rifle. There is no registration requirement for long guns. Also you shouldn't have told them about the rifle imo. This is California after all.

jon1300
04-19-2011, 3:21 PM
thanks to everyone for the quick response. I felt that I could've fought it then and there. but i do respect officers a lot. was it wrong not to talk back to them?

Kodemonkey
04-19-2011, 3:22 PM
please keep us informed of your situation.

wildhawker
04-19-2011, 3:22 PM
how do i contact calguns foundation?

Email your contact info and details to hotline@calgunsfoundation.org. Sounds like Benicia needs to be educated.

-Brandon

scarville
04-19-2011, 3:23 PM
Contact Calguns now.

I sure hope you got a receipt.

jon1300
04-19-2011, 3:24 PM
Also you shouldn't have told them about the rifle imo. This is California after all.

I agree. I thought due to the officer seeing the target, i had to answer. I wasn't sure and didn't want to take the risk of getting arrested...

safewaysecurity
04-19-2011, 3:25 PM
thanks to everyone for the quick response. I felt that I could've fought it then and there. but i do respect officers a lot. was it wrong not to talk back to them?

It was wrong to tell them what you had in your vehicle. Talking to police in general should be avoided because everything you say can and will be used to incriminate you.

Kodemonkey
04-19-2011, 3:26 PM
thanks to everyone for the quick response. I felt that I could've fought it then and there. but i do respect officers a lot. was it wrong not to talk back to them?

Talking back isn't necessary in my opinion. But you did learn a lesson about long gun registration today. Imagine if you knew the facts before the encounter... "Officer, with all due respect, long guns aren't registered in california. Please contact your supervisor/watch commander to confirm."

A simple google search on the cops PDA would have confirmed this. And it would have probably ended without you losing your rifle.

Now you know what to do next time! Glad you are now here and learning about the laws. Hope your rifle comes back unscathed and intact. Please keep us in the loop, and hopefully CGF will help out. If they do, please consider a donation (or donate anyway - I do!)

wildhawker
04-19-2011, 3:26 PM
FYI to all, an email or online submit at www.calgunsfoundation.org/hotline is strongly preferred over the hotline phone number.

-Brandon

press1280
04-19-2011, 3:27 PM
Unbelievable. What's the law in CA regarding checking all firearms they run across? What if this guy had refused to say whether he had guns with him? If they searched anyway, would we then have a 4th Amendment violation?

ae13291
04-19-2011, 3:27 PM
somebody correct me if i am wrong but he is not allowed to search through your trunk, only the inside of the car but the trunk requires a search warrent or you would need to grant him permission unless you were tricked by the officer..

safewaysecurity
04-19-2011, 3:27 PM
I agree. I thought due to the officer seeing the target, i had to answer. I wasn't sure and didn't want to take the risk of getting arrested...

You don't have to answer anything. You have the right to remain silent. Also on top of that if you inform police that you have a firearm in the car they are only authorized to check if the weapon is unloaded. They are not permitted to search for the serial number unless you have authorized for a search or if they have probable cause that the firearm is stolen or something.

safewaysecurity
04-19-2011, 3:28 PM
somebody correct me if i am wrong but he is not allowed to search through your trunk, only the inside of the car but the trunk requires a search warrent or you would need to grant him permission unless you were tricked by the officer..

They need probable cause to search any part of the car or your consent. They can't just search your car willy nilly. They can look form outside your car but that's where the plain view rule comes into play.

ke6guj
04-19-2011, 3:30 PM
somebody correct me if i am wrong but he is not allowed to search through your trunk, only the inside of the car but the trunk requires a search warrent or you would need to grant him permission unless you were tricked by the officer..

once the OP told the officer that there was a firearm, the law allows for the officer to determine if that firearm is illegally loaded.

ae13291
04-19-2011, 3:32 PM
^^^ makes sense

J.D.Allen
04-19-2011, 3:33 PM
Talking to police in general should be avoided because everything you say can and will be used to incriminate you.

This +1000. The police are not your friends. Even if they sound like it, and act like it, they are not your friends. I have had more than one defense attorney tell me that if no one talked to the cops there would be almost no convictions in this country.

wildhawker
04-19-2011, 3:35 PM
Unbelievable. What's the law in CA regarding checking all firearms they run across? What if this guy had refused to say whether he had guns with him? If they searched anyway, would we then have a 4th Amendment violation?

http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12031.html

ke6guj
04-19-2011, 3:37 PM
^^^ makes sense


here's the PC for you.12031. (a)(1) A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm when he or she carries a loaded firearm on his or her person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or in any public place or on any public street in a prohibited area of unincorporated territory.

(e) In order to determine whether or not a firearm is loaded for the purpose of enforcing this section, peace officers are authorized to examine any firearm carried by anyone on his or her person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or prohibited area of an unincorporated territory. Refusal to allow a peace officer to inspect a firearm pursuant to this section constitutes probable cause for arrest for violation of this section.

once they know you have a firearm, they are authorized to inspect it to see if it is loaded.

jon1300
04-19-2011, 3:38 PM
once the OP told the officer that there was a firearm, the law allows for the officer to determine if that firearm is illegally loaded.

and the rifle was in perfect condition for a check. magazines empty and in a different pocket, and bolt was open. shouldn't that have been it?? I am very calm about the situation, but the more I think about it, the more disappointed I get with my local law enforcement.

Next time. My mouth is shut. thanks for making this all clear for me. now i know i am in the right.

stix213
04-19-2011, 3:39 PM
once the OP told the officer that there was a firearm, the law allows for the officer to determine if that firearm is illegally loaded.

ke6guj is referring to PC 12031(e). When you are at a location where it would be illegal to discharge a firearm you are required to have the firearm unloaded per 12031, and 12031(e) gives the authority to verify compliance with 12031 whenever law enforcement encounters a firearm.

12031(e) is not supposed to allow a search of your person/vehicle/stuff/firearms beyond verifying the firearm is unloaded, but its apparently very commonly and unconstitutionally abused.

ke6guj
04-19-2011, 3:40 PM
and the rifle was in perfect condition for a check. magazines empty and in a different pocket, and bolt was open. shouldn't that have been it?? I am very calm about the situation, but the more I think about it, the more disappointed I get with my local law enforcement.

Next time. My mouth is shut. thanks for making this all clear for me. now i know i am in the right.

riight, as long as it was unloaded, then there wasn't a 12031 violation.

unfortunately, the officer was ignorant of the fact that most long guns are not "reigstered" in CA and they would not be in the "database". ONly Registered Assault Weaponss and .50BMG rifles are in that database.

solomon
04-19-2011, 3:42 PM
I agree. I thought due to the officer seeing the target, i had to answer. I wasn't sure and didn't want to take the risk of getting arrested...

i still dont really get what to do in this situation. so you just say i dont want to answer that question? then this raises suspicion to search your vehicle... then your in the same situation as op but the cop is probably more on your *** after that.

ae13291
04-19-2011, 3:45 PM
so if the op remained silent when the officer said "i see you have a target, there arent any guns in the vehicle are there?". there would have been no trouble?

stix213
04-19-2011, 3:45 PM
i still dont really get what to do in this situation. so you just say i dont want to answer that question? then this raises suspicion to search your vehicle... then your in the same situation as op but the cop is probably more on your *** after that.

Say something to the effect: "Respectfully sir I am not going to answer that question. I am not transporting anything illegal, and I refuse all searches."

You are not required to answer the officer's question about a firearm, and choosing to not give up your constitutional rights when talking to the police cannot be used as cause to search your vehicle.

mosinnagantm9130
04-19-2011, 3:47 PM
i still dont really get what to do in this situation. so you just say i dont want to answer that question? then this raises suspicion to search your vehicle... then your in the same situation as op but the cop is probably more on your *** after that.

Four options:

1. Remain silent
2. "There's nothing illegal in my vehicle"
3. "I don't have a gun in the vehicle"
4. Be honest.

Always refuse searches.

The OP's rifle was illegally confiscated. If you have a legal firearm, they can check to make sure it's not loaded, but they can't do anything else without probable cause, or a warrant.

97F1504RAD
04-19-2011, 3:53 PM
Benicia Police Department. small town in east bay area

That does not surprise me one bit. Call CGF immediately and let them handle this.

If you have a firearms-related legal issue in California...

email us or call (800) 556-2109

http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/cgf-hotline.html

wildhawker
04-19-2011, 4:02 PM
We're on it. :43:

safewaysecurity
04-19-2011, 4:05 PM
We're on it. :43:

Haha sweet. Please keep us updated. I'm really curious to see how this goes.

Stonewalker
04-19-2011, 4:06 PM
jon1300,

Based off your info the situation looks bad for the LEO.
-No need to frisk you
-Registration is not required for long guns
-12031(e) only authorizes them to check to make sure the gun is unloaded, it DOES NOT authorize them to keep your gun in order to run the serial#.
-Taking your rifle "because it isn't registered" is more akin to theft than police action, as there is no PC in CA that requires registration of any sort to own a gun.

You've already got all the info you need for getting your gun back, but just for your future reference you should watch this video - BUSTED: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encounters. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA) It is a great jumping off point to start understanding your rights.

Basically, the Police need Probable Cause to enter your car. Probable Cause is evidence of a crime comittted. It isn't a hunch, it isn't evidence that you could have comitted a crime - it is hard, articulable evidence of a crime committed. A target in your car is NOT Probable Cause.

You simply could have said "no" and guess what, the 5th amendment means you don't need to answer his questions anyways. There has been much debate here as to how answer the question you were asked. A "no" probably would have been best here.

The problem with answering "yes" is that CA PC 12031(e) authorizes them to (violate the 4th amendment and) search your car for the gun you admitted to having - all to make sure you have it unloaded.

Anyways, this will probably spark off a debate, but I wish the best and study up on your rights!!! Good luck man! I hope you get your rifle back soon, CGF is amazing at getting results.

paul0660
04-19-2011, 4:07 PM
We're on it. :43:

So, it happened?

jon1300
04-19-2011, 4:13 PM
jon1300,

Based off your info the situation looks bad for the LEO.
-No need to frisk you
-Registration is not required for long guns
-12031(e) only authorizes them to check to make sure the gun is unloaded, it DOES NOT authorize them to keep your gun in order to run the serial#.
-Taking your rifle "because it isn't registered" is more akin to theft than police action, as there is no PC in CA that requires registration of any sort to own a gun.

You've already got all the info you need for getting your gun back, but just for your future reference you should watch this video - BUSTED: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encounters. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA) It is a great jumping off point to start understanding your rights.

Basically, the Police need Probable Cause to enter your car. Probable Cause is evidence of a crime comittted. It isn't a hunch, it isn't evidence that you could have comitted a crime - it is hard, articulable evidence of a crime committed. A target in your car is NOT Probable Cause.

You simply could have said "no" and guess what, the 5th amendment means you don't need to answer his questions anyways. There has been much debate here as to how answer the question you were asked. A "no" probably would have been best here.

The problem with answering "yes" is that CA PC 12031(e) authorizes them to (violate the 4th amendment and) search your car for the gun you admitted to having - all to make sure you have it unloaded.

Anyways, this will probably spark off a debate, but I wish the best and study up on your rights!!! Good luck man! I hope you get your rifle back soon, CGF is amazing at getting results.

Thanks. I've already left a message with Mr. Kilmer. The thing that really upsets me was when i went in there with my documents, one of the officers was there telling the story about last night. and talking as if i wasn't going to get it back. the person at the desk showed him my paperwork, looked at her and said "good luck, he has to talk to *blank* and shes not here this week".

Stonewalker
04-19-2011, 4:19 PM
Thanks. I've already left a message with Mr. Kilmer. The thing that really upsets me was when i went in there with my documents, one of the officers was there telling the story about last night. and talking as if i wasn't going to get it back. the person at the desk showed him my paperwork, looked at her and said "good luck, he has to talk to *blank* and shes not here this week".

Wow, blood-boiling. I've never had my gun taken but I can imagine how scary it would be if I didn't have CGF. How could a regular citizen deal with all this own their own? I've read horror stories here... Police destroying a gun after the citizen coudln't get it back in time because *blank* was on vacation all month, lots of BS like that. Sounds like CGF'll take care of you though.

ZombieTactics
04-19-2011, 4:22 PM
LOL ... I guess you can ignore my YouTube PM ;)

choprzrul
04-19-2011, 4:39 PM
This is one heck of a first post on CGN!

I would like to take this opportunity to welcome Jon1300 to CalGuns.net. I do truly wish that you would have found us under better circumstances, but here you are and we welcome you.

Go to the CalGuns Foundation website and thoroughly read the Wiki. (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Main_Page) You have probably already been PM'd with this info, but here a video that will give you guidance on talking with law enforcement:

i8z7NC5sgik

Lastly, learn basic marksmanship skills by attending an Appleseed event. It will vastly improve your understanding of how to make your shots go where you intend for them to go. Here is their address: http://www.appleseedinfo.org/

Again, welcome to CalGuns. Enjoy.

.

myself, my brother, and a friend of mine were on our way home from the range with my AR in the trunk along with an ammo can and my friends target sitting in the back seat. I get pulled over for my brake light being out(understandable). The officer sees the target and says "i see you have a target, there arent any guns in the vehicle are there?". I am a very nice person, so i said "yes, a safe rifle in the trunk."(should I have not said anything?) he takes my brother, my friend, and my IDs and called for another unit.

once the other unit arrived, they asked all of us, one at a time, to get out of the car and we were frisked. He told me that he was going to check my trunk to see if I complied with what I said. I had no problem with it. He checked it and then they started looking for the registration number to see if the firearm was registered to me.

this is where it gets interesting.

they spend about 20 min. trying to figure out where the registration number is and how to track it. they come to the conclusion that they cant find any record of it in their database and tell me that i have to get documentation from the DOJ or FFL dealer that i bought it from to prove that i own the rifle legally. So they take my rifle and put it under "safekeeping".

I go to my FFL dealer and tell them the story. And supposedly the AR is considered a longgun which doesn't get registered like a pistol does. Therefore, I believe they took my rifle unlawully, against my rights, because the officers weren't educated on their gun laws.

Am I right?

I did get the documents needed to show proof of purchase and the DOJ transaction. When I went into the police department, surprisingly, the person that deals with the safekeeping storage was not there that week. SOOOOOO, i have to wait til next week to even speak to them about it.

Is this something you think I can win? or do you think this will be another infamous gun story where in the end, the law abiding citizen that didn't do anything wrong will never see his rifle again?

I am new to guns and don't know very much, but I do believe my rights were abused.

thanks for reading this long story. any feedback will be greatly appreciated.

JonBoo

Wernher von Browning
04-19-2011, 4:52 PM
This +1000. The police are not your friends. Even if they sound like it, and act like it, they are not your friends.

Now you tell me. They're not our friends? You mean... they're actually like this guy?
http://www.ww2incolor.com/art/Germaniamica.html

ryanburbridge
04-19-2011, 4:57 PM
myself, my brother, and a friend of mine were on our way home from the range with my AR in the trunk along with an ammo can and my friends target sitting in the back seat. I get pulled over for my brake light being out(understandable). The officer sees the target and says "i see you have a target, there arent any guns in the vehicle are there?". I am a very nice person, so i said "yes, a safe rifle in the trunk."(should I have not said anything?) he takes my brother, my friend, and my IDs and called for another unit.

once the other unit arrived, they asked all of us, one at a time, to get out of the car and we were frisked. He told me that he was going to check my trunk to see if I complied with what I said. I had no problem with it. He checked it and then they started looking for the registration number to see if the firearm was registered to me.

this is where it gets interesting.

they spend about 20 min. trying to figure out where the registration number is and how to track it. they come to the conclusion that they cant find any record of it in their database and tell me that i have to get documentation from the DOJ or FFL dealer that i bought it from to prove that i own the rifle legally. So they take my rifle and put it under "safekeeping".

I go to my FFL dealer and tell them the story. And supposedly the AR is considered a longgun which doesn't get registered like a pistol does. Therefore, I believe they took my rifle unlawully, against my rights, because the officers weren't educated on their gun laws.

Am I right?

I did get the documents needed to show proof of purchase and the DOJ transaction. When I went into the police department, surprisingly, the person that deals with the safekeeping storage was not there that week. SOOOOOO, i have to wait til next week to even speak to them about it.

Is this something you think I can win? or do you think this will be another infamous gun story where in the end, the law abiding citizen that didn't do anything wrong will never see his rifle again?

I am new to guns and don't know very much, but I do believe my rights were abused.

thanks for reading this long story. any feedback will be greatly appreciated.

JonBoo

WoW!

I hope CGF helps you out! Below is my rant on this topic.

This is a great example of how screwed we are!

You are a victim of your upbringing!

You stated you have respect for LEO. Wrong! You respect the LAW and individuals! Not the uniform or badge! Once an individual puts on a badge and a uniform they are acting as an agent of the STATE and their only job is to gather evidence AGAINST you to convict you for breaking the LAW of the STATE!

You can not defend your rights if you do not know your rights to begin with.

The biggest problem I see with our country now is the fact that we are not teaching our children the very basics of what our country was founded on.

Search YouTube for "dont talk to cops"

Ok I'm done for now.





"If squirt guns are outlawed, only outlaw squirts will have guns!"

James Taranto

ryanburbridge
04-19-2011, 5:14 PM
A run down of how I handle LEO.

In your case I'm driving.

LEO

"i see you have a target, there arent any guns in the vehicle are there?"

ME

Why are you pulling me over?

LEO

You have a light out! Do you have any guns?!

ME

Are you pulling me over because I have a light out on my car?

LEO

Yes

ME

Are you going to cite me for a vehicle code violation?

LEO

Yes but I need to know if you have any guns!

ME

I would like to be on my way! Or am I being detained for a criminal investigation? If so what crime are you investigating?

(by this time LEO see they are dealing with someone who knows how things work. They write the ticket and I'm on my way)

LEO

Step out of the car!

ME

( I roll up the windows lock the car keys inside and get out with ID registration and proof of insurance)

I've only done this once got my ticket and called AAA to unlock my car.

Sorry you went through this with out being informed ahead of time.

I hope you don't think I'm trying to add salt to your wounds. This is more for others.

NEVER consent to a search of your person or possessions!

"If squirt guns are outlawed, only outlaw squirts will have guns!"

James Taranto

Backcountry
04-19-2011, 5:20 PM
OP, you failed. Cops also failed, but not knowing the law more or less brought this on yourself.

Andric
04-19-2011, 5:28 PM
I would have simply said "Do you seen any guns in the car?"

If he say no, he has no right to search. If he says yes, he's lying.

Josh3239
04-19-2011, 5:34 PM
I am a very nice person, so i said "yes, a safe rifle in the trunk."

These stories that start like that never seem to end well. In fact I only recall one time in a post here were someone admitted to having a firearm in their car and the LE didn't care. All the other times always seem to end up real bad.

I do hope you get your rifle back. Not only were your 2A right abused but your 4A were as well. You basically got screwed. In the future, any answer but an affirmitive is a much better idea.

carsonwales
04-19-2011, 5:49 PM
I love this website

Plain and simple.

It is a resource that never quits giving

Can the OP get any money out this in a civil action? If I so he should sue the living you know what out these guys

Carson Wales

edit: typo

sfpcservice
04-19-2011, 5:58 PM
It's as if you walked into a car dealership and the salesman saw that you were a "nice" guy... and totally backdoored you on the deal.

Only this "salesman" was a cop.




When this gets going can it have a new sticky thread so we can follow it easily?

wildhawker
04-19-2011, 6:00 PM
OP, you failed. Cops also failed, but not knowing the law more or less brought this on yourself.

Consider carefully what you're saying here. Hint: you're wrong.

I do agree that having some knowledge of best practices for police encounters can be very useful, but to say that we should be prepared to [and actually] argue the law with law enforcement is a multi-dimensional fail.

-Brandon

Sniper3142
04-19-2011, 6:08 PM
i still dont really get what to do in this situation. so you just say i dont want to answer that question? then this raises suspicion to search your vehicle... then your in the same situation as op but the cop is probably more on your *** after that.

You tell the cop that you'd rather keep the conversation on the topic of why you were stopped. You can also respond that there is nothing illegal in the vehicle.

Neither of these responses give them PC to search your vehicle against your will.

jtmkinsd
04-19-2011, 6:10 PM
but to say that we should be prepared to [and actually] argue the law with law enforcement is a multi-dimensional fail.

-Brandon

:rofl2:

"Fail...the final frontier. These are the voyages of the starship stupid...it's never ending mission: seek out new ignorance..."

carsonwales
04-19-2011, 6:15 PM
A quick check of Benicia's Financial Statements shows revenue in a downward trend and at parity with income as of 2009

God knows that 2010 has to be worse

I say sue them...

;)

pieeater
04-19-2011, 6:19 PM
So, it happened?

It will be interesting to find out. Im always skeptical when someone creates an account comes on and manages to hit just about every hotbutton issue in their first post.

CSACANNONEER
04-19-2011, 7:18 PM
I encourage anyone and everyone who reads this thread to make a donation to the CGF. It doesn't have to be a lagre donation. Just open your wallet and donate all the ones and fives that are there right now. If everyone does this twice a month, it'll be a big help.

Lostsheep
04-19-2011, 7:29 PM
What if any repercussions does the OP or Calguns have here.

I've heard the police tell me on more than one occasion that "ignorance is no excuse for the law". Why is it any different for them?

They need to be punished for breaking the law.

jon1300
04-19-2011, 7:40 PM
everything i can do is done for the night. I'll update if anything happens tomorrow.

wildhawker
04-19-2011, 7:43 PM
OP, please don't post anything further.