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M14Gunman
11-16-2006, 1:51 PM
I looked at my Driver's license today and it expired on my birthday. I renewed it through the California DMV but I have not yet received the new license in the mail.

I have the expired license and the paper one issued to me by the DMV. I also have a current US passport which is valid and a utility bill. I also have my social security card and a birth certificate.

I have plenty of documentation for employment yet my FFL tell me I must have a valid california ID with my picture on it (the paper one does not count) in order to buy a gun. Apparently I cannot use a US passport and proof of residence.

Is there no way around this?

Hanniballs
11-16-2006, 1:54 PM
nope.

Shane916
11-16-2006, 2:12 PM
Not sure if it's different for handguns. But we have always accepted the paper temporary card for rifles/shotguns.

thedrickel
11-16-2006, 2:49 PM
I just don't get why an ID suddenly becomes invalid once it hits the "expiration date." Sure it may no longer confer the privilege of driving, but how does it not still tell you who I am or what my DOB is? I was in a bike accident, cops had no trouble "ID'ing" me by the expired license in my saddle bag. :rolleyes:

tenpercentfirearms
11-16-2006, 3:02 PM
Not sure if it's different for handguns. But we have always accepted the paper temporary card for rifles/shotguns.
I wouldn't spread that one around too much.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dlrfaqs.php#14G

xenophobe
11-16-2006, 3:14 PM
Not sure if it's different for handguns. But we have always accepted the paper temporary card for rifles/shotguns.

Not acceptable.

It even states "Not a valid ID" on the temporary paperwork. To deliver a firearm you need to see a Valid California Drivers License or Identification Card.

Cpl_Peters
11-16-2006, 3:54 PM
I bought a shotgun once after my DL was expired. I brought in the temp paper license as well to show that I had applied to get it renewed but I also had a current Government Issue passport. They said it was fine. I dont know why it wouldn't be. Thats what you show the police if you get pulled over after your license expires. You show him the expired picture ID and the paperwork. There is no reason why it should work any different with buying a firearm.

Socal858
11-16-2006, 4:18 PM
not fine.

i had to wait for my plastic one to come in the mail (it doesnt take more than a week or a week and a half at most). then again, the plac ei go to is strict about following hte rules

M14Gunman
11-16-2006, 4:59 PM
It has been confirmed.... under California law you MUST have a VALID, NOT EXPIRED PLASTIC ID card or driver's license to purchase ANY gun. A US Passport is not acceptable, paper license is not acceptable.

Here's the other problem. A US Passport is LEGAL IDENTIFICATION. It is illegal to deny US passport as identification in any other venue but not so when buying a firearm.

Here is the thing that is crazy to think about. I had enough documentation to get a job and to vote, but not enough to buy a gun.

JALLEN
11-16-2006, 5:07 PM
This is what Big 5 does.

I lost my DL in Texas, so when I got back went in to get a replacement, and got the paper temp, no picture. DMV was to get it to me within 60 days. Big 5 decides to have a great shotun sale, so I go to buy a shotgun, go through all the paperwork and come back to pick it up after 10 days, only to be told that they would not deliver it based on the temporary ID, passport, letter from my Congressman, DD-214, affidavit of my mother, or any combination thereof.

Was I steamed! It all worked out OK though, because after my DL arrived, there was a great shotgun, barely used, on sale for about $50 less than I would have paid at Big 5. So I took back most of the bad things I had said about Big 5!

JALLEN
11-16-2006, 5:09 PM
Here is the thing that is crazy to think about. I had enough documentation to get a job and to vote, but not enough to buy a gun.

The crazy thing is that you don't need any identification to vote. You can't cash a check, get a library card, etc., but you can vote. That is crazy in this age of identity theft.

tenpercentfirearms
11-16-2006, 6:55 PM
The crazy thing is that you don't need any identification to vote. You can't cash a check, get a library card, etc., but you can vote. That is crazy in this age of identity theft.
That is why I voted 5 times! :eek: We still lost.

Socal858
11-16-2006, 7:12 PM
That is why I voted 5 times! :eek: We still lost.

lol x500

xenophobe
11-16-2006, 7:21 PM
I bought a shotgun once after my DL was expired. I brought in the temp paper license as well to show that I had applied to get it renewed but I also had a current Government Issue passport. They said it was fine. I dont know why it wouldn't be. Thats what you show the police if you get pulled over after your license expires. You show him the expired picture ID and the paperwork. There is no reason why it should work any different with buying a firearm.

Yes, there is reason why it should work differently. It is only a temporary permit to operate a motor vehicle. It is not identification.

Please stop spreading misinformation. The link to the appropriate laws was posted before you wrote this. :rolleyes:

elsolo
11-16-2006, 7:27 PM
So if I try and use my passport to prove ID, and my vehicle registration or other utility to prove residence, and they both have the same name and address, that is not sufficient to buy a firearm in CA?

I find that odd, anybody got a linky?

chiefcrash
11-16-2006, 7:38 PM
i think the whole passport = no good for firearms thing has something to do with proving that you're a CA resident...

M14Gunman
11-16-2006, 8:00 PM
i think the whole passport = no good for firearms thing has something to do with proving that you're a CA resident...

Not true...

I had a US Passport.. it says right on the passport "Place of Birth: California USA"

In addition I had:

My Birth Cirtificate
My County Tax bill for my residence
PG&E Bill
Social Security Card
Temporary Paper ID from the DMV
My expired picture ID (california license)
Last Two Years tax returns

I brought the packet with me that I used to buy my house.... it had everything... I tried to buy an OLL from 10 percent and she said she would not sell it to me. I thought at the time she was just being difficult but then I did some research at the DOJ website and found this:


Penal Code 12071
(3) No firearm shall be delivered...unless the purchaser, transferee, or person being loaned the firearm presents clear evidence of his or her identity and age to the dealer.

c) (1) As used in this article, "clear evidence of his or her identity and age" means either of the following:
(A) A valid California driver's license.
(B) A valid California identification card issued by the Department of Motor Vehicles.


As you can see... its in black and white. I even told her that I bought a shotgun yesterday using my US passport but I now see that FFL did so illegally.


I now have to wait 3 more weeks for my DL to come in the mail..... :(

Shane916
11-16-2006, 11:01 PM
I wouldn't spread that one around too much.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dlrfaqs.php#14G

Hmm, very interesting! I always wondered about that too. Thanks for the link :)

luvtolean
11-16-2006, 11:07 PM
Not true...

I had a US Passport.. it says right on the passport "Place of Birth: California USA"

...which has absolutely nothing to do with where you now live at least 18 years later.

It's the same for proving residency for colleges. They vary a bit, but pretty much all require a state ID or Driver's license to prove residency.

You don't have to be a resident to get a utility bill in your name...

M14Gunman
11-16-2006, 11:16 PM
...which has absolutely nothing to do with where you now live at least 18 years later.

It's the same for proving residency for colleges. They vary a bit, but pretty much all require a state ID or Driver's license to prove residency.

You don't have to be a resident to get a utility bill in your name...


Trust me... it is a WHOLE lot easier to get a California Driver's license when you live out of state than it is to get a TAX BILL for property owned in the state.

All someone has to do to get a CDL is get a PO BOX and bring a birth certificate (from any state) and a SS card.

A tax bill in my name for a piece of property labeled "primary residence" is most definitely proof of residency in California. You seem to be misinformed because in order to buy a handgun in California you must provide proof of residency.... one acceptable proof of residency is a UTILITY BILL.

That is my point. I can PROOVE with VALID ID who I am (US Passport). I can LEGALLY proove residency (Utility bill and tax bill for property within the state) but none of that matters... one must have a current, valid california ID with a picture on it.

As if anyone in a neighboring state would try to come to California to illegally purchase weapons....

blackberg
11-17-2006, 12:03 AM
Hi been lurking here for a bit, getting ready for my big purchase....figured Ill make this my first post since

I deal with DMV a lot, and my DL jsut expired, in july. I went trough 2 paper temp permits....seems dmv had a problem issuing me my DL, they kept loosing my picture the last time I went I told them that I cant be like this and the guy at the local DMV called Sacramento and did something over thephone and computer and took a new picture, he said it will be a couple of days after that and it took about a week after I got my card in the mail. I didnt get my plastic card till over 3 months after my expiration date...

I am goign trough the same thing for occupational lic with DMV, only this has been 16 months after my application was put in and still ahve not received my plastic card, i was there again last week and they admitted they have been overflowed recently, and they did their phone thing again and said about a week...we'll see

All of this and I have a clean all around record with no issues!

the point of all of this is, dont trust DMV (DMV inspector said DMV is retarded), if you need it quick, go back and have them check if everything is ok

rorschach
11-17-2006, 2:10 AM
When I was in the service, I used my military ID to buy a firearm. Of course this was 'bout ten years ago, and I didn't have to show a utility bill either. Last time my DL expired I tried DROS'ing a rifle at B&B in Westminster (R.I.P.)with my expired DL and a DMV paper printout temp, but it was a no-go. Had to wait a few weeks.

EOD Guy
11-17-2006, 6:35 AM
Not true...

I had a US Passport.. it says right on the passport "Place of Birth: California USA"

In addition I had:

My Birth Cirtificate
My County Tax bill for my residence
PG&E Bill
Social Security Card
Temporary Paper ID from the DMV
My expired picture ID (california license)
Last Two Years tax returns

I brought the packet with me that I used to buy my house.... it had everything... I tried to buy an OLL from 10 percent and she said she would not sell it to me. I thought at the time she was just being difficult but then I did some research at the DOJ website and found this:


Penal Code 12071
(3) No firearm shall be delivered...unless the purchaser, transferee, or person being loaned the firearm presents clear evidence of his or her identity and age to the dealer.

c) (1) As used in this article, "clear evidence of his or her identity and age" means either of the following:
(A) A valid California driver's license.
(B) A valid California identification card issued by the Department of Motor Vehicles.


As you can see... its in black and white. I even told her that I bought a shotgun yesterday using my US passport but I now see that FFL did so illegally.


I now have to wait 3 more weeks for my DL to come in the mail..... :(

Both my passport and birth certificate show my place of birth as New York. That doesn't make me a New York resident.

I can show documentation showing I purchased two houses in Arizona. That doesn't make me an Arizona resident.

I can show property tax bills from Arizona. That doesn't make me an Arizona resident.

An expired driver's license is not a valid identification document. Try using one if your carded at a bar. You will be asked to leave, if they are following the law.

EOD Guy
11-17-2006, 6:40 AM
One thing I don't understand is why doesn't the DMV issue you a driver's license on the spot. With the technology available today, it can easily be done.

Any Arizona DMV office will issue driver's licenses, ID cards, registrations and titles less than an hour after you submit the applications, unless they are unusually crowded that day. I had to get a replacement vehicle title once and had it in my hand within 10 minutes of walking up to the window.

shonc99
11-17-2006, 8:32 AM
One thing I don't understand is why doesn't the DMV issue you a driver's license on the spot. With the technology available today, it can easily be done.

Any Arizona DMV office will issue driver's licenses, ID cards, registrations and titles less than an hour after you submit the applications, unless they are unusually crowded that day. I had to get a replacement vehicle title once and had it in my hand within 10 minutes of walking up to the window.

Because California is paving the way to the future!

Soon our streets will be safer, our police will be better able to do their job................................. :rolleyes: :eek:

M14Gunman
11-17-2006, 10:52 AM
Both my passport and birth certificate show my place of birth as New York. That doesn't make me a New York resident.

I can show documentation showing I purchased two houses in Arizona. That doesn't make me an Arizona resident.

I can show property tax bills from Arizona. That doesn't make me an Arizona resident.

An expired driver's license is not a valid identification document. Try using one if your carded at a bar. You will be asked to leave, if they are following the law.

In California there is a tax credit for "primary residence". You only get this credit if you LIVE in the home. On my tax bill it shows this as my current residence. My income tax papers show that I have lived here for 2 years.

I am not going to argue with you hair splitters... as stated before a California Driver's License is MUCH easier to get for someone who lives out of state. All you need is a Birth Cert and SS card. Under California law a utility bill IS proof of residency. I am not going to say it again people.... READ IT.

EOD Guy
11-17-2006, 2:26 PM
In California there is a tax credit for "primary residence". You only get this credit if you LIVE in the home. On my tax bill it shows this as my current residence. My income tax papers show that I have lived here for 2 years.

I am not going to argue with you hair splitters... as stated before a California Driver's License is MUCH easier to get for someone who lives out of state. All you need is a Birth Cert and SS card. Under California law a utility bill IS proof of residency. I am not going to say it again people.... READ IT.

That is my point. I can PROOVE with VALID ID who I am (US Passport). I can LEGALLY proove residency (Utility bill and tax bill for property within the state) but none of that matters... one must have a current, valid california ID with a picture on it.

Agreed! However, if you are going to try and use logic or common sense to interpret any laws or regulations, you are going to drive yourself crazy.

You're right about the primary residence exemption being on the property tax bill. The law doesn't require it to use the tax bill as proof of residency though. The requirements for proof are so full of loopholes, they are funny.

The bottom line to the whole mess, as you stated above, is that you need a valid California drivers license or ID card, or military ID card with orders assigning you to California to purchase a firearm in California.