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erik_26
04-17-2011, 7:41 PM
Is it possible to legally buy or build a .50 cal rifle? Or are these forever forbidden in CA?

hoffmang
04-17-2011, 7:46 PM
Is it possible to legally buy or build a .50 cal rifle? Or are these forever forbidden in CA?

You can't build a .50BMG rifle. You can build a .510DTC rifle or anything else smaller than .60 and that doesn't chamber a .50BMG.

-Gene

Ubermcoupe
04-17-2011, 10:00 PM
Gene, I was just thinking how I haven't seen a post from you recently. :D

OP: Barrett makes the infamous m82 in .416 also - here (http://www.barrett.net/firearms/model82a1)

sfbadger
04-17-2011, 10:12 PM
OP: Barrett makes the infamous m82 in .416 also - here (http://www.barrett.net/firearms/model82a1)

From a ballistic point of view, the .416 is a superior round to the .50 BMG, by far!

Nick Justice
04-18-2011, 7:10 AM
12278. (a) As used in this chapter, a ".50 BMG rifle" means a
center fire rifle that can fire a .50 BMG cartridge and is not
already an assault weapon pursuant to Section 12276, 12276.1, or
12276.5, or a machinegun, as defined in Section 12200.
(b) As used in this chapter, a ".50 BMG cartridge" means a
cartridge that is designed and intended to be fired from a center
fire rifle and that meets all of the following criteria:
(1) It has an overall length of 5.54 inches from the base to the
tip of the bullet.
(2) The bullet diameter for the cartridge is from .510 to, and
including, .511 inch.
(3) The case base diameter for the cartridge is from .800 inch to,
and including, .804 inch.
(4) The cartridge case length is 3.91 inches.
(c) A ".50 BMG rifle" does not include any "antique firearm," nor
any curio or relic as defined in Section 178.11 of Title 27 of the
Code of Federal Regulations.
(d) As used in this section, "antique firearm" means any firearm
manufactured prior to January 1, 1899.

As long as the cartridge does not have all the above dimensions, you can have one.

CSACANNONEER
04-18-2011, 7:17 AM
From a ballistic point of view, the .416 is a superior round to the .50 BMG, by far!

It's also more overbored than a 50BMG so, expected barrel life is a lot shorter. There are a lot less reloading components and data for it, ammo is much harder to find and expensive and, it's not a 50. Besides that, Barretts are not know to be precision rifles.

my70mav
04-18-2011, 9:58 AM
The town of Dinuba chamber of commerce is having a raffle for one of these M82a1. $100 per ticket. Selling only 100 tickets. I want to by one real bad. I see the flyers everytime I visit the in-laws.

sfbadger
04-18-2011, 10:01 AM
It's also more overbored than a 50BMG so, expected barrel life is a lot shorter. There are a lot less reloading components and data for it, ammo is much harder to find and expensive and, it's not a 50. Besides that, Barretts are not know to be precision rifles.

None of which has anything to do with ballistics.

cmaynes
04-18-2011, 10:21 AM
It's also more overbored than a 50BMG so, expected barrel life is a lot shorter. There are a lot less reloading components and data for it, ammo is much harder to find and expensive and, it's not a 50. Besides that, Barretts are not know to be precision rifles.

the Barrett M82 is expected to have a minimum accuracy of 1.5 to 2 MOI. with good glass and ammo, they are fairly accurate- At least in my experience.

there are more accurate rifles out there, but considering the heft of the projectile, and the fact it is considered an anti-material rifle, I think its performance envelope is reasonably respectable.

glockwise2000
04-18-2011, 10:28 AM
No to .50BMG caliber rifle. But it is okay to have a .50BMG handgun or crew-served weapon.

Geez, I wonder how strong would be the kick for that .50BMG handgun.

sfbadger
04-18-2011, 10:35 AM
The town of Dinuba chamber of commerce is having a raffle for one of these M82a1. $100 per ticket. Selling only 100 tickets. I want to by one real bad. I see the flyers everytime I visit the in-laws.

Those aren't bad odds at all!

timdps
04-18-2011, 11:00 AM
No to .50BMG caliber rifle. But it is okay to have a .50BMG handgun or crew-served weapon.


"Crew-served weapon" has no meaning in California or Federal law
Better terms are non-rifle, or Title 1 long gun. The most common option for CA a legal .50 BMG firearm is the M2HB and related firearms. One other option is a Comblock DsHK chambered in.50 BMG.

Because these are not rifles (designed to be fired from the shoulder), they are exempt from the CA .50 cal. rifle ban.

Tim

CSACANNONEER
04-18-2011, 11:25 AM
None of which has anything to do with ballistics.

Very true. I was just adding to the pros and cons of the round.

the Barrett M82 is expected to have a minimum accuracy of 1.5 to 2 MOI. with good glass and ammo, they are fairly accurate- At least in my experience.

there are more accurate rifles out there, but considering the heft of the projectile, and the fact it is considered an anti-material rifle, I think its performance envelope is reasonably respectable.

MOI? Do you mean "moa"? If so, moa has nothing to do with "accuracy". MOA is about "precision". There is a huge difference. That said, my "cheap" .50BMGs both can shoot about .5moa at 1000yards if I do my part. Typically, they average 1.1-1.2moa over the course of a two day match. I'm not sure why someone would pay 4 times more to shoot 3-4times larger groups (precision) but, to each their own.

MaHoTex
04-18-2011, 12:40 PM
Holy Moly...

Model 82A1 .416 Barrett Rifle System: Non-Detachable Magazine, 29” Barrel

Cost: $8,900.00

:shock:

gatesbox
04-18-2011, 12:50 PM
The town of Dinuba chamber of commerce is having a raffle for one of these M82a1. $100 per ticket. Selling only 100 tickets. I want to by one real bad. I see the flyers everytime I visit the in-laws.

How do I get a ticket for this riffle.....I'm a gambling man.....

choprzrul
04-18-2011, 12:52 PM
So, from what I am reading above from PC, if a person was to run 50BMG rounds through a seating die (down to something like 5.52"), then that entire section of PC would not apply since it says "ALL"?

.

my70mav
04-18-2011, 1:01 PM
How do I get a ticket for this riffle.....I'm a gambling man.....

Go to Millers Automotive in Dinuba, flyer is on the front counter. I believe it's soon though.

CHS
04-18-2011, 2:42 PM
Because these are not rifles (designed to be fired from the shoulder), they are exempt from the CA .50 cal. rifle ban.


I really wish people would stop calling it that.

There is no CA .50 cal rifle ban. There is no .50cal ban in CA.

There is a very narrow and specific .50BMG rifle ban ONLY.

CSACANNONEER
04-18-2011, 2:52 PM
I really wish people would stop calling it that.

There is no CA .50 cal rifle ban. There is no .50cal ban in CA.

There is a very narrow and specific .50BMG rifle ban ONLY.

I hate when people say that 50BMGs are banned from California! They are not "banned" just highly regulated. People seem to equate "banned" with "illegal" to possess. Obviously, properly registered 50BMG rifles are not illegal nor are they banned. I even know of one non-LEO member here who was able to legally aquire and register a 50BMG rifle in California around 2006.
Yes, for most of us, there is a ban on aquiring any "new to you" 50BMG rifles in California but, the ones which are here legally are not illegal.

Ubermcoupe
04-18-2011, 4:15 PM
So, from what I am reading above from PC, if a person was to run 50BMG rounds through a seating die (down to something like 5.52"), then that entire section of PC would not apply since it says "ALL"?

.

I believe (although not confirmed) that is the reasoning behind the .50dtc.

http://www.daplane.com/50bmg/50dtc/cart_comp_00.jpg

CHS
04-18-2011, 4:37 PM
I hate when people say that 50BMGs are banned from California! They are not "banned" just highly regulated. People seem to equate "banned" with "illegal" to possess. Obviously, properly registered 50BMG rifles are not illegal nor are they banned. I even know of one non-LEO member here who was able to legally aquire and register a 50BMG rifle in California around 2006.
Yes, for most of us, there is a ban on aquiring any "new to you" 50BMG rifles in California but, the ones which are here legally are not illegal.

Note the words "narrow and specific":


There is a very narrow and specific .50BMG rifle ban ONLY.

Technowizard
04-18-2011, 5:12 PM
So, from what I am reading above from PC, if a person was to run 50BMG rounds through a seating die (down to something like 5.52"), then that entire section of PC would not apply since it says "ALL"?

.

I don't believe so, as the rifle itself would still be capable of chambering a standard .50BMG round. Since its the "rifles" that are restricted and not the ammo, I'd have to say that's still a no go buddy. The idea behind the .510DTC is not only does it not meet those specified .50BMG diameters, but it also has modifed throating for the round/rifle chamber. That way the rifle will chamber the DTC round, but not the BMG round.

MindBuilder
04-18-2011, 5:53 PM
I thought I heard 50BMG ammunition was also banned for unregistered users? Is that true?

Librarian
04-18-2011, 5:54 PM
I thought I heard 50BMG ammunition was also banned for unregistered users? Is that true?

No.

Something like that was in at least one early version of the bill, but it did not make it into law.

timdps
04-18-2011, 6:55 PM
Good point. I was assuming that most people think .50 BMG when someone says .50 cal. Will be very clear in the future.

As far as CSA's point goes, it's an effective ban for anyone who did not register their rifles by the deadline. Purchase was prohibited after the deadline.

One could say the same about full auto firearms; "just highly regulated".
The effect for most people however, is a ban.

Tim

I really wish people would stop calling it that.

There is no CA .50 cal rifle ban. There is no .50cal ban in CA.

There is a very narrow and specific .50BMG rifle ban ONLY.

OleCuss
04-18-2011, 6:59 PM
The closest I can come to thinking of a way to build a .50BMG legally here in California is technically not building one but to change the upper on an AR-15 RAW. Yup, if you have an AR-15 RAW you can put a .50 BMG upper on the thing and be quite legal.

But if you don't have a RAW that method won't work. . .

Vipersx911
04-18-2011, 7:45 PM
Gene, I was just thinking how I haven't seen a post from you recently. :D

OP: Barrett makes the infamous m82 in .416 also - here (http://www.barrett.net/firearms/model82a1)

They also make the M99 which is also a .416. Has all the goodies and is bolt action so no need for AW laws.

bubbapug1
04-18-2011, 9:48 PM
Cali legal 50 bmg

http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr177/bubbapug1/DSC00812.jpg

http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr177/bubbapug1/DSC00808.jpg

New photos of the pintle to rail adaptor - its still not finished cosmetic wise, but its functional now

http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr177/bubbapug1/DSC00862.jpg

http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr177/bubbapug1/DSC00866.jpg

http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr177/bubbapug1/DSC00867.jpg

sfbadger
04-18-2011, 10:02 PM
Now that's creative! Good job! :D

Vipersx911
04-18-2011, 11:48 PM
Of course there is also the idea if it does not meet the defintion of a rifle under CA law than it can be chambered in .50 BMG. for example the tripod weapon above would not be considered a rifle as it is not shoulder fired.

Now this is to the best of my understanding, so definately verify that with a legal specialist before persuing.

CSACANNONEER
04-19-2011, 7:06 AM
Note the words "narrow and specific":

I understand that YOU understand. I just wanted to vent. I really get tired of laypersons and even poorly trained LEOs who think that ALL 50BMGs are banned and thus illegal in California.


As far as CSA's point goes, it's an effective ban for anyone who did not register their rifles by the deadline. Purchase was prohibited after the deadline.

One could say the same about full auto firearms; "just highly regulated".
The effect for most people however, is a ban.

Tim

In fact, I do say that about FA weapons in CA. I've always laughed at the fact that Ca's definition of an AW did not include FA or SF weapons. So, in fact, while it is illegal to aquire a new center fire semi auto rifle with an evil feature in CA, it is not illegal (with the proper paperwork which is alomst impossible to get) for a civilian to purchase the same firearm if it is FA or select fire. I know non LEAs who have privately owned NFA registered firearms in CA. I do agree that their is a ban on transfering 50BMG rifles in CA. But, that does not make the thousands which are legally registered as "50 BMG rifles" or AWs (two distinctly different things) illegal in this state. Yet, people's misconceptions about the "ban" lead many to believe that all 50BMG rifles are illegal in Ca period.

I don't believe so, as the rifle itself would still be capable of chambering a standard .50BMG round. Since its the "rifles" that are restricted and not the ammo, I'd have to say that's still a no go buddy. The idea behind the .510DTC is not only does it not meet those specified .50BMG diameters, but it also has modifed throating for the round/rifle chamber. That way the rifle will chamber the DTC round, but not the BMG round.

Please explain what you mean by this. I am completely unaware of any special throating which needs to be done for a barrel chabered in any of the different .510 DTC chambers which have been offered. Of course, one could get a top 50 smith to cut a chamber for boreriders but, that isn't a requirement for the round unless one is going to shoot boreriders.

Technowizard
04-22-2011, 8:43 PM
@csacannoneer

The throating or shoulder of the DTC round is different than that of the BMG. By implementing a steeper shoulder (which in turn necessitates a modified chamber throating to match the round's shoulder), .510 DTC rifles can only propperly chamber DTC rounds instead of the BMG, and vice versa. This is why when purchasing .50 caliber rifles you must specify DTC as the chambering, and the only reason why the rifle doesn't fall in to the... eh hem... "highly regulated" class! Think about it... if your .50 cal rifle was still able to chamber and fire .50 BMG rounds, I don't think the defense of "oh but I only shoot these other 1/10th of an inch shorter bullet types out of it so my rifle is perfectly legal" would hold up very well!

mrkubota
04-23-2011, 6:06 AM
.... that area is generally referred to as the 'neck'...
The 'throat' would be the area just ahead of the case neck (mouth) where the bullet is before it engages the rifling of the barrel.
It's not really any different than a BMG in the sense that they both can use the same bullets, but may vary only because of the specialty bullets that are available for custom chambers that require a tighter neck/throat like the 'bore rider' type bullets.

The necks/shouders of a DTC case/chamber are indeed set back 1/10" compared to a BMG round so a BMG cartridge won't chamber
Fire formed DTC cases are fatter than BMG, so they won't chamber into a BMG chamber, but 'forming' DTC cases can and will!! This would introduce an extreme headspacing issue if done, so be certain to keep your DTC (forming) and BMG ammo separate if you have both!!

Keala
04-23-2011, 11:29 AM
I believe (although not confirmed) that is the reasoning behind the .50dtc.

http://www.daplane.com/50bmg/50dtc/cart_comp_00.jpg

OMG!!! OK, now for a non-shooter...that is just a little bit scary. :eek: I am wondering if you all have some consensus here on when/if a gun is just too big??? I am pro 2A but isn't there some kind of limit? If it is way too much to go hunting with and way too much to be protecting your house/self with???

So obviously there are some people who are supporting and wanting these huge bullets, but is that everybody here? And does anybody think that is a little scary? Or maybe if not that a 60 caliber or 70 caliber...if they exist? When is something just too big/dangerous?

atv
04-23-2011, 11:45 AM
OMG!!! OK, now for a non-shooter...that is just a little bit scary. :eek: I am wondering if you all have some consensus here on when/if a gun is just too big??? I am pro 2A but isn't there some kind of limit? If it is way too much to go hunting with and way too much to be protecting your house/self with???

So obviously there are some people who are supporting and wanting these huge bullets, but is that everybody here? And does anybody think that is a little scary? Or maybe if not that a 60 caliber or 70 caliber...if they exist? When is something just too big/dangerous?

I don't recall the last time someone was car jacked with .50 BMG, or the last time a 7-11 was held up with one, so large caliber weapons dont scare me. What's the saying? It's not the size, it's how you use it.

SanPedroShooter
04-23-2011, 11:50 AM
But... but... I thought people were going to shoot down airliners with heat seeking super bullets??? You mean these guns are still on the streets? I am shocked and outraged....

You never noticed the asterix in the Second Amendment? "... shall not be infringed*"

*unless you gun is to big, or to small, or isnt on the list, or is on the list but in the wrong color, or has a little plastic grip hanging off the bottom, or the shoulder thing that goes up....

I think the line can be drawn at crew served weapons, if we are going after a strict interpretation. Although people did have personally owned cannons and the like during the Revolution...

I think that because we have publicly gone after brady in the guise of infiltrators, they may be returning the complement. There's a name for people like that... I cant quite remember... its on the tip of my tounge... starts with a T....

Keala
04-23-2011, 12:09 PM
I don't recall the last time someone was car jacked with .50 BMG, or the last time a 7-11 was held up with one, so large caliber weapons dont scare me. What's the saying? It's not the size, it's how you use it.

Well I grew up in Long Beach which is a bad area, but I don't think anyone was ever robbed with a grenade or a bazooka but I still think those should be illegal. So I think that is a false argument. :)

Wernher von Browning
04-23-2011, 12:33 PM
OMG!!! If it is way too much to go hunting with and way too much to be protecting your house/self with???

Where does one draw the line? Is this "evil" because the projectile is beyond a certain size? Does a bullet become "evil" at or above 0.5000 inches diameter, but a .475 Nitro Express or a .480 Ruger is "mischievous, but not quite evil"?

What about a late 1800s .50-90 Sharps? Is that harmless because it's a refugee from the Old Guns Home?

What about a Civil War musket, at .58 caliber, sometimes .69 cal? Revolutionary War muskets? Rifled slugs in shotguns?

Or do we start making exceptions for bullets below a certain muzzle velocity, or driven by a certain powder, or below a certain kinetic energy...

Other stuff to do with it:

* Probably the #1 reason to have one: Very long range target competition. (Go poke around YouTube; I hate to recommend any because apparently the concussion of shooting .50 cal causes people to become tone deaf and they dub in really bad audio tracks).

* The enjoyment to be had from reloading and developing loads. Heck, for some of those things, you're almost on your own as far as engineering the components goes.

* The pleasure of having a really unusual piece of machinery.

Super Spy
04-26-2011, 2:02 PM
The 50 BMG is an excellent long distance round and many shooters that enjoy the challenge of making extremely long shots love them. A 50 BMG has never been used to commit a crime. More assassinations are made with a little bitty .22 than any other cartridge. All the 50 BMG ban has done is deprive shooters who didn't get one before the ban of the opportunity.