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View Full Version : U.S. ignored Gun Dealer's Warning: Project Gunrunner


Southwest Chuck
04-15-2011, 8:58 AM
The rats will be scurrying to hide and eventually start pointing fingers at each other, I think. Here is a link to today's article in the L.A. Times:

U.S. ignored Gun Dealer's Warning (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-guns-20110415,0,132336.story)
Here's a snip...

The investigation into a federal operation that allowed Mexican drug cartels to acquire U.S. weapons escalated Thursday with new revelations that an Arizona gun dealer repeatedly expressed fears that his guns were falling into the "hands of the bad guys" but was encouraged by federal agents to continue the sales.

A series of emails released by congressional investigators showed that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives encouraged the gun dealer against his better judgment to sell high-powered weapons to buyers he believed were agents for the drug cartels.

CalBear
04-15-2011, 8:59 AM
The rats will be scurrying to hide and eventually start pointing fingers at each other, I think. Here is a link to today's article in the L.A. Times:

U.S. ignored Gun Dealer's Warning (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-guns-20110415,0,132336.story)
Here's a snip...
Just shut them down. Seriously.

email
04-15-2011, 9:04 AM
It's amazing to me how if the republican so much is farts, its front page news. But something as serious as this gets buried and comes out soooo slowly that hardly anyone notices.

Left wing bias. Sickening.

sugi942
04-15-2011, 9:17 AM
Frak. I mean, seriously. :mad:

Southwest Chuck
04-15-2011, 9:18 AM
It's amazing to me how if the republican so much is farts, its front page news. But something as serious as this gets buried and comes out soooo slowly that hardly anyone notices.

Left wing bias. Sickening.

At least it made the front page today. Hopefully, we'll see the A.P. and Reuters pick it up.

G60
04-15-2011, 9:19 AM
It seems like slowly, different news outlets are reporting on this.
used to be just CBS news, now this article in the LA times, and i saw another this morning from a Washington paper.

liketoshoot
04-15-2011, 9:44 AM
just made me sick how they told him to keep selling it's ok by them!!
we really need to clean house from top to bottom.

Lone_Gunman
04-15-2011, 9:54 AM
Unfortunately I think this story is going to die. Know why? 'Cause not one gunny is suprised, and not one non-gunowner is going to care. As much as I wish it were not true, I just don't see it catching the attention of the average Joe.

halifax
04-15-2011, 9:54 AM
Voth, the ATF agent, wrote to the dealer: "I understand that the frequency with which some individuals under investigation by our office have been purchasing firearms from your business has caused concerns for you. However, if it helps put you at ease we (ATF) are continually monitoring these suspects using a variety of investigative techniques which I cannot go into [in] detail."

Thousands of guns were sold to straw purchasers under Project Gunrunner. The ATF has acknowledged that at least 195 U.S. firearms sold to suspected straw purchasers have been recovered in Mexico, but agents have said thousands slipped outside ATF oversight.

:mad::mad::mad:

Wernher von Browning
04-15-2011, 9:55 AM
It seems like slowly, different news outlets are reporting on this.
used to be just CBS news, now this article in the LA times, and i saw another this morning from a Washington paper.

USA Today (the MacPaper that magically appears outside every motel room door in the country):
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-04-15-arizona-gun-ATF-border.htm

RaceDay
04-15-2011, 10:10 AM
Yeah, I just saw it in USA Today.

So I guess Hillary was right-- the cartels are coming to USA to buy weapons used to kill border agents and others. Of course, it is also all sanctioned by the ATF and Eric Holder.

So the left encourages the illegal sales as part of a supposed sting operation and then can turn around and demonize guns when a US agent gets killed. Talk about having your cake and eating it too...

stitchnicklas
04-15-2011, 10:18 AM
Atf = fail

Stonewalker
04-15-2011, 10:21 AM
It's aslo at the HuffPo
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/the-center-for-public-integrity/gun-smuggling-arizona-mexico-atf_b_849276.html#postComment

bluev7
04-15-2011, 10:24 AM
So how can we hold the Feds accountable for their illegal actions?
I know my operation would be raided and shut down and I would not just get to retire but be suckin it hard core in the pen so again how?
This is another oppertunity to hol their feet to the fire and put them in their place!

Goosebrown
04-15-2011, 10:28 AM
Bad enough that they were going to let the sales pass, knowing that they were going to go south, but when the dealer REPEATEDLY does exactly what he is supposed to do, they tell him to go ahead...

That INCENSES me.

At the very least stop that sale and tell the owner thanks for keeping his eyes out and letting them know.

Maybe Holder and Clinton can save time and money by just shooting a couple ICE agents while they are in training and not have to pay salaries... do the whole gun deal... wait for the guns to get to Mexico.... send the agent down... I mean we are trying to save money right?

furyous68
04-15-2011, 10:32 AM
Bad enough that they were going to let the sales pass, knowing that they were going to go south, but when the dealer REPEATEDLY does exactly what he is supposed to do, they tell him to go ahead...

And don't forget... those same dealers were demonized in the infamous "list" of dealers that had guns captured from the cartel traced back to their stores.

Total BS!:mad:

Spirit 1
04-15-2011, 10:47 AM
Please pardon the rant: Where's all the ultra-leftwing [read 'Commie'] state & federal politico big smiley faces that were grand-standing down on the southern borders, now stepping forward when outright criminal acts are carried out by their direct influence at BATFE?

How come they won't proudly & loudly own up to personally being complicit in murders, aiding & abetting the enemy in drug trafficking, while violating & overthrowing long established international relations, violating their precious U-Commie-N agreements, causing death & destruction in their 'Best most sensible plan for our National Security interests'???

How's come they won't boldly take responsibility for this as their direct doing, and demand & defend that it was the very best & only option, and the only logical way to deal with their invented non-existent non-issues they so dearly love & cherish, as a vehicle for their beloved leftist commie agendas?

In a different time these would be clear cut treasonous acts: as aiding & abetting the enemies of our National Security in the USA by willingly, knowingly & intentionally undermining our National Security and working against the best interests of our closest Global Security partners, while incidentally directly aiding the flow of illicit illegal drugs into the U.S.A. That, while additonally defeating the work of our own national anti-drug agencies and while supporting those who illegally invade our National borders and further threaten National Security! All this at a time when we have a standing declared War on Drugs!

Having worked in city, county, state & federal govt. it's an absolute sure thing that nothing like this occurs unless orders are passed down FROM ABOVE, "...and make it look like your idea, dummy...". BATFE doesn't MAKE THE LAWS, they are only called to ENFORCE them! Here we have an agency doing it's best to do the job it's tasked with, like it or not, while renegades above & within do their best to undermine exactly that within that Agency, under 'Orders from above'!

BATFE continually gets a bad rap around here, sometimes rightly: but I believe that much of that is mis-directed. In all that we're dealing quite simply with Government Agency Employees following Government Agency Guidelines influenced, invented & developed by invisible OTHERS ABOVE who aren't a part of those same agencies! Here, for a change, we finally get a glimpse of the seamy underbelly of the slimy, slithering serpents manipulating our system of National & State's Governance, driving for their own increase & poltical gain: while yet again trampling the reputation of faithful public servants laboring under Agency rules.

This time, as in yet again & this time, it isn't so much 'Follow the money!' as it is, 'Follow the blood & bodies' and see where the blood trail really tracks to! Yes, I am speaking in direct support of all of the many other faithful public servants doing their best to labor under oppressive 'Agency Regulations' [that they did not make into laws] to fulfill their job descriptions: while the same are being sabotaged in their every effort by radical extremists hiding in their shadows!

It doesn't take genius to see that you always find the odorous droppings & offal well below where the big birds roost above, preening their glorous feathers in their misbegotten comforts.

I'm no fan of BATFE, matter of fact I think the agency is now a major PIA in general because of the laws. However it just seems a real shame that everybody in their midst gets tarred & feathered with the same broad brush even when it's obvious the genuinely bad guys are but a very few. Even those few are likely manipulated & compromised by others far above who can negatively 'influence' whole careers.

Wernher von Browning
04-15-2011, 10:52 AM
So I guess Hillary was right-- the cartels are coming to USA to buy weapons used to kill border agents and others. Of course, it is also all sanctioned by the ATF and Eric Holder.

What was it that Emperor Palpatine clone, Rahm Emanuel, said? Never let a good crisis go to waste?



So the left encourages the illegal sales as part of a supposed sting operation and then can turn around and demonize guns when a US agent gets killed. Talk about having your cake and eating it too...

But of course. The end justifies the means. If they have to lie, cheat, and kill their own agents for the Greater Cause, well, shuddup, it's good for you. If it done save jus' one chile...

Wernher von Browning
04-15-2011, 10:53 AM
So how can we hold the Feds accountable for their illegal actions?

If you find a way, it will be a historical first. Rule Number One: There is NO accountability. Ever.

bohoki
04-15-2011, 11:16 AM
dumb dealer the buck stops with him he should have canceled the sale

G60
04-15-2011, 11:22 AM
Bad enough that they were going to let the sales pass, knowing that they were going to go south, but when the dealer REPEATEDLY does exactly what he is supposed to do, they tell him to go ahead...

That INCENSES me.

At the very least stop that sale and tell the owner thanks for keeping his eyes out and letting them know.



back when this story first broke, they tried to throw the dealer under the bus.

before the whole 'let the guns walk' fiasco got out, the dealer got really bad press for 'allowing guns to be sold to cartels that ended up with a US agent being killed'

G60
04-15-2011, 11:23 AM
dumb dealer the buck stops with him he should have canceled the sale

What would you do if the agency that gives you the license to earn your living tells you to do something?