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View Full Version : If these were all off-list, what would be the preferred 308 AR?


grammaton76
11-14-2006, 6:45 PM
MULTIPLE CHOICE POLL: Please feel free to check multiple's, if you'd buy more than one - I'm more interested in seeing what people would AVOID here. :)

So, there's been a whole lot of talk lately about 308 AR's. 80% receivers, Hesse's, etc.

I'm curious to know what folks would consider the "best option" for 308's, in a world where all the options are equally off-list.

In this theoretical world, all the above happened:

1. We finally got the DOJ to admit that the Eagle Arms AR-10 is legal.
2. Rock River finally got off their rears and finished their AR-10.
3. DPMS finally got around to having a not-Panther-marked version of their 308 offering.
4. You still have the option of Hesse/Vulcan HAR-25's.
5. MGI gets off their rears and has their AR-10/M14/whatever 308 options available.
6. You can still attempt to build an AR-10 from an 80% receiver.

So, given all these options, assuming that they're all legal and off-list, what would you RATHER buy? This isn't rather have (i.e. free) but what do you think you'd end up buying?

blacklisted
11-14-2006, 6:47 PM
I'd go with the Eagle Arms AR-10, and use Armalite parts if that option was available. The DPMS seems good, but the magazines are very expensive. I believe the DPMS can use standard AR-10 barrels (but with a DPMS barrel nut that has the proper thread pitch). There is a DPMS compatible JP V-tac free float tube, and Daniel Defense also makes a compatible free float handguard. So, the DPMS would be my second option. My third option would be an 80% lower.

mltrading
11-14-2006, 6:49 PM
You forgot KAC SR-25. It's a nice one.:)

grammaton76
11-14-2006, 7:01 PM
You forgot KAC SR-25. It's a nice one.:)

Gah, knew I was forgetting something. Ok, so one thing I wish I'd put on the poll...

xenophobe
11-14-2006, 7:04 PM
I'm waiting for Leitner-Wise to finish their SR-25 compatible rifle....

PIRATE14
11-14-2006, 7:08 PM
I'm waiting for Leitner-Wise to finish their SR-25 compatible rifle....

That could be awhile..............

C.G.
11-14-2006, 7:19 PM
You forgot KAC SR-25. It's a nice one.:)

And more expensive than AR-10.

Blacktail 8541
11-14-2006, 7:25 PM
Eagle arms & DPMS run about equal with an 80% in third. 80% may be #1 after 1/1/07 because we can't get the first two.

xenophobe
11-14-2006, 7:31 PM
Yes, a Leitner-Wise SR-25 would be a costly wait, but it would also be much nicer than an Armalite or KAC. ;)

50BMGBOB
11-14-2006, 8:27 PM
I bought a HAR25 because it is the only one I could. I viewed it like a 90% receiver, needs a lot of TLC to get working. I would get a Eagle Arms in a heartbeat if I could to replace it and use the same upper. If I where to gwt a whole gun, It could be DPMS or Armalite.

NSR500
11-14-2006, 9:18 PM
To the Terms of your question, I'd say the RRA .308 because when I'm in California I live in an Apartment and have no tools.
But...
When 2007 comes and there is no progress on OLL finished .308's, I will build an 80%.

Speaking of... I can't wait for December because I get to go home to TX for a few months before having to come back to CA for another project. I'll have a few months to play with my non-Neutered toys!

cornholio1
11-14-2006, 10:07 PM
Really dumb question: If one were interested in a good, accurate, semi-auto .30 caliber rifle, why not try:

M14 or M1A (either milsurp or new Springfield)
M1 Garand or M1 Carbine (the former is nice, cheap and CMP available)
Whole slew of eastern-block milsurp rifles
Browning BAR, Benelli R1, Heckler&Koch SLB, and similar European-style (expensive?) hunting rifles.
Remington 7400
Not to mention a huge variety of bolt-action and pump rifles, but let's exclude them because we specified semi-auto above.

I think if one is interested in a hunting or paper-punching rifle, these are perfectly suitable candidates - or aren't they? For 3-gun matches a .223 AR-15-style rifle is much better, right?

What I'm really saying: As much as I respect everyone's desire to own the weapons of their choice, at least in .30 caliber we have a wide variety of options, other than the black rifles. The situation is fundamentally different in .223 caliber, where there is nearly nothing (other than Keltec SU-16, Mini-14, and Vq Evolution) outside of AR-style rifles. Is this a reasonable summary.


Because its a black rifle. Its lightweight, accurate, and well designed. Its like the AR15's big brother. It my fav mostly due to the design. Everythings where it should be, and its Cali reload friendly unlike an AK with a pistol grip or a FAL w/o a stripper clip cover. To me the AR is one of the best rifles out there.

C.G.
11-14-2006, 10:07 PM
Can't find any of those in the poll.:)

Q
11-14-2006, 10:30 PM
first sr-25. hope to see the lw sr25. second eagle ar10.

CALI-gula
11-14-2006, 10:42 PM
Darn. I can't partake in the poll because you didn't include a JLD PTR-91. What an oversight. I would take that over all of those mentioned on your poll list.

Also have to agree with Treelogger on the quality and excellence of either the Browning BAR or the Springfield M1A in all its variations. Both are simple to get, extremely reliable, replacment parts are cheap (if you EVER were to need them, which is not often) and the quality is top-notch. Sometimes I wish 10 round magazines were more accesible for the BAR; I recall a company was making them, but not sure what happened to them and whether they are still in business.

However, on Treelogger's discussion of good .223 options legal in CA ... I defer to my Avatar which is a pictorial testimony to one option. Or two.

.

xenophobe
11-14-2006, 11:02 PM
Really dumb question: If one were interested in a good, accurate, semi-auto .30 caliber rifle, why not try:

Got an M1A, got a G3, got my BM59... Didn't want an AR-10 in 99, and SR-25 availability was practically non-existant... I would have gotten an SR-25 if I could have found one. So... that's why.

grammaton76
11-15-2006, 12:04 AM
Treelogger, CALI-gula... check the title of the thread; this is specifically on which 308 AR options folks are lusting after.

There's been 50,000 "which 308 is best" polls, but to my knowledge this is the first "which 308 AR-10ish system is best" polls. :)

m1aowner
11-15-2006, 12:26 AM
Any interest in a 80% .308 lower group buy? No FFLS needed for this. I don't have the coordinating and negotiating skills to put this together, but maybe somebody out there is willing to do so.

five.five-six
11-15-2006, 1:11 AM
alright who the hell voted for hesse??

Really dumb question: If one were interested in a good, accurate, semi-auto .30 caliber rifle, why not try:

M14 or M1A (either milsurp or new Springfield)
M1 Garand or M1 Carbine (the former is nice, cheap and CMP available)
Whole slew of eastern-block milsurp rifles
Browning BAR, Benelli R1, Heckler&Koch SLB, and similar European-style (expensive?) hunting rifles.
Remington 7400
Not to mention a huge variety of bolt-action and pump rifles, but let's exclude them because we specified semi-auto above.

I think if one is interested in a hunting or paper-punching rifle, these are perfectly suitable candidates - or aren't they? For 3-gun matches a .223 AR-15-style rifle is much better, right?

.

errr.. none of these rifles are tacti-cool, have you ever tried to mount a forward grip or an eotech on a garand? it takes hours and looks prety stupid :eek:

that being said, my next few rifles will be WWII garands..have you ever shot an ar-10?? I am just dialing in my 2nd and they are light weight, >1moa accurate, and have very light recoil... kind of like a pez lead dispenser

CALI-gula
11-15-2006, 2:07 AM
Treelogger, CALI-gula... check the title of the thread; this is specifically on which 308 AR options folks are lusting after.

There's been 50,000 "which 308 is best" polls, but to my knowledge this is the first "which 308 AR-10ish system is best" polls. :)

Huh! So it is! :o

In that case, it would have to be the Eagle Arms AR-10 . And so, will vote accordingly.

adamsreeftank
11-15-2006, 2:21 AM
You missed my favorite option, which just happens to be an OLL. The Cobb multi-caliber rifle.

http://www.cobb50.com/mcr.htm

Too bad it is soooo damn expensive.

grammaton76
11-15-2006, 3:06 AM
Gahhh... can't believe I forgot the Cobb. I even knew about that one - at least with the SR-25 I had the excuse of not having known about it beforehand.

kicker72
11-15-2006, 3:40 AM
I would want a HK417:p But alas HK don't care about us civies:rolleyes: But to choose from the list I'll take an Eagle Arms AR10

http://www.hkpro.com/hk417.jpg

cornholio1
11-15-2006, 8:03 AM
Any interest in a 80% .308 lower group buy? No FFLS needed for this. I don't have the coordinating and negotiating skills to put this together, but maybe somebody out there is willing to do so.


I am gonna wait until after Jan. Like everyone said. I don't really have the skills to put on together yet either. However, I am not sure why no other company has really jumped into making stripped AR10 lowers. If they started, they would have made mucho dinero in CA.

69Mach1
11-15-2006, 8:18 AM
Eagle AR10 for sure. I actually started the DROS on an Eagle AR10 stripped receiver until the DOJ stepped in. Closest I'll ever get I guess.:mad:

Oh well, I guess my HAR25 will have to do. Fortunately the Armalite uppers are first rate and very accurate.

ivanimal
11-15-2006, 8:54 AM
Gah, knew I was forgetting something. Ok, so one thing I wish I'd put on the poll...


I feeex!

ivanimal
11-15-2006, 9:08 AM
Really dumb question: If one were interested in a good, accurate, semi-auto .30 caliber rifle, why not try:

M14 or M1A (either milsurp or new Springfield)
M1 Garand or M1 Carbine (the former is nice, cheap and CMP available)
Whole slew of eastern-block milsurp rifles
Browning BAR, Benelli R1, Heckler&Koch SLB, and similar European-style (expensive?) hunting rifles.
Remington 7400
Not to mention a huge variety of bolt-action and pump rifles, but let's exclude them because we specified semi-auto above.

I think if one is interested in a hunting or paper-punching rifle, these are perfectly suitable candidates - or aren't they? For 3-gun matches a .223 AR-15-style rifle is much better, right?

What I'm really saying: As much as I respect everyone's desire to own the weapons of their choice, at least in .30 caliber we have a wide variety of options, other than the black rifles. The situation is fundamentally different in .223 caliber, where there is nearly nothing (other than Keltec SU-16, Mini-14, and Vq Evolution) outside of AR-style rifles. Is this a reasonable summary.

Dont forget this new entry:D

http://www.winchesterguns.com/prodinfo/catalog/detail.asp?cat_id=531&type_id=008&cat=016C

http://www.winchesterguns.com/prodinfo/catalog/images/531008m.jpg

its purdy.

bwiese
11-15-2006, 9:16 AM
If you want reliable rifle with long production history in reasonable volume - thus assuring some reaonsable supply of spare parts - Armalite AR10 is the way to go. (Eagle is similar with lower-grade finish but equal function, and also does not have a chrome-lined barrel.)

Everyone else's is pretty much a custom build with all the variation over time that might entail, and these are smaller vendors in this field. Spares could be problematic 10yrs down the line.

Knight's SR25 would be the alternate - although in smaller volumes and Rolex-like pricing, the company will be around, and has had experience in making things to spec for specialty contracts.

tenpercentfirearms
11-15-2006, 11:10 PM
Ok, I am still learning about .308 ARs because our options are so limited. Help me understand some of this.

Who is compatible with whom? Will the Armalite lowers work with DPMS uppers and vice versa? Whose magazines work with which lowers?

I voted Armalite because I know they have the best reputation. DPMS looks all right, but I have heard they are mid level. So do they mix and match? Where does the Hesse fit into all of this? I have never recommended the Hesse/Vulcan to a customer, but I have kinda noticed that some of you claim with the right parts the Hesse will work. Who will it work with though?

Finally, who is going to be the freaking manufacturer to finally figure out that I could sell the hell out of .308 lowers??? :confused: Maybe after 1/1/07 someone will finally see the light. :rolleyes: I tried to convince Armalite at the Shot Show, but never heard back from them.

PIRATE14
11-16-2006, 12:51 AM
Ok, I am still learning about .308 ARs because our options are so limited. Help me understand some of this.

Who is compatible with whom? Will the Armalite lowers work with DPMS uppers and vice versa? Whose magazines work with which lowers?

I voted Armalite because I know they have the best reputation. DPMS looks all right, but I have heard they are mid level. So do they mix and match? Where does the Hesse fit into all of this? I have never recommended the Hesse/Vulcan to a customer, but I have kinda noticed that some of you claim with the right parts the Hesse will work. Who will it work with though?

Finally, who is going to be the freaking manufacturer to finally figure out that I could sell the hell out of .308 lowers??? :confused: Maybe after 1/1/07 someone will finally see the light. :rolleyes: I tried to convince Armalite at the Shot Show, but never heard back from them.

AAHHH Grasshopper......you have much to learn:eek:

tenpercentfirearms
11-16-2006, 1:03 AM
AAHHH Grasshopper......you have much to learn:eek:
NO KIDDING! Why don't you explain it to me? :confused:

Tweak338
11-16-2006, 1:03 AM
I would wait for the Rock River 308

C.G.
11-16-2006, 2:12 AM
Ok, I am still learning about .308 ARs because our options are so limited. Help me understand some of this.

Who is compatible with whom? Will the Armalite lowers work with DPMS uppers and vice versa? Whose magazines work with which lowers?

I voted Armalite because I know they have the best reputation. DPMS looks all right, but I have heard they are mid level. So do they mix and match? Where does the Hesse fit into all of this? I have never recommended the Hesse/Vulcan to a customer, but I have kinda noticed that some of you claim with the right parts the Hesse will work. Who will it work with though?

Finally, who is going to be the freaking manufacturer to finally figure out that I could sell the hell out of .308 lowers??? :confused: Maybe after 1/1/07 someone will finally see the light. :rolleyes: I tried to convince Armalite at the Shot Show, but never heard back from them.

2 out of 2 of my Hesse 25 work just fine, finish is not the best (better odds than my Vulcan Har-15s). Can't speak for other people, though.

Skammy
11-16-2006, 2:37 AM
KAC hands down for .308 :D

Cobb for .300 WinMag
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/Skammy/cobb.jpg

shonc99
11-16-2006, 6:34 AM
I am gonna wait until after Jan. Like everyone said. I don't really have the skills to put on together yet either. However, I am not sure why no other company has really jumped into making stripped AR10 lowers. If they started, they would have made mucho dinero in CA.

Try this:
http://www.ktordnance.com/kto/products.php

And this:

http://www.cncgunsmithing.com/

I am in the process of getting a cnc mill set up, but with the first website, you only need a drill.