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View Full Version : URGENT - PLEASE DO NOT ATTEMPT TO BE ARRESTED FOR AW ON PURPOSE FOR ANY REASON


wildhawker
04-14-2011, 1:20 PM
All,

A brief note to clear the air with respect to a nasty rumor floating around.

There seems to be one or more gun owners in the Northern California area who have recently asserted publicly that CGF is looking for volunteers to be arrested for an illegal SB23 AW. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY AND UNEQUIVOCALLY FALSE.

CGF WOULD NEVER ASK ANYONE TO COMMIT A CRIME. DO NOT COMMIT A CRIME FOR ANY REASON.

If anyone has additional info on this, please 1) SHUT IT DOWN, and 2) PM me or any CGF board member.

Thanks for your attention and looking out for your fellow gun owners.

-Brandon

PolishMike
04-14-2011, 1:24 PM
Please follow this advice.

E Pluribus Unum
04-14-2011, 1:24 PM
All,

A brief note to clear the air with respect to a nasty rumor floating around.

There seems to be one or more gun owners in the Northern California area who have recently asserted publicly that CGF is looking for volunteers to be arrested for an illegal SB23 AW. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY AND UNEQUIVOCALLY FALSE.

CGF WOULD NEVER ASK ANYONE TO COMMIT A CRIME. DO NOT COMMIT A CRIME FOR ANY REASON.

If anyone has additional info on this, please 1) SHUT IT DOWN, and 2) PM me or any CGF board member.

Thanks for your attention and looking out for your fellow gun owners.

-Brandon


I have removed all the extra, unneeded fluff from this message, and this is what's leftover:




PLEASE DO NOT BE AN IDIOT


Who believes this crap?

We need to find the person or people who started this rumor and flog them.

N6ATF
04-14-2011, 1:29 PM
I have a shiny pair of bracelets for whoever says that!

BigDogatPlay
04-14-2011, 1:38 PM
Color me crazy but I am pretty sure advocating someone to take a potential felony rap on purpose would be very foolish. And the next to last trait I would ever think to ascribe anyone involved with the CGF effort / board is foolishness.

Sadistically pulling the wings off small insects for sport would be the last trait I would ascribe.... but I don't know them all well enough to judge that one yet.... :D

wazdat
04-14-2011, 1:43 PM
Aw, come on. I heard Bubba was lonely... :wub:

stix213
04-14-2011, 1:45 PM
Were people actually volunteering for this?

dustoff31
04-14-2011, 1:50 PM
There seems to be one or more gun owners in the Northern California area who have recently asserted publicly that CGF is looking for volunteers to be arrested for an illegal SB23 AW. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY AND UNEQUIVOCALLY FALSE.

Are these morons really gun owners? And if so, have they volunteered themselves yet?

If not, that should tell everyone everything they need to know about this.

taperxz
04-14-2011, 1:53 PM
It was me:o

But, the LEO swore to me that my Winchester model 1894 was not an assault rifle and he refused to arrest me.

Jeez Louise! Who comes up with this crap??? "HMM what do you want to do today Bubba?" "I don't know?" "Wanna get arrested on AW charges today? I guess its something to do anyway."

The Shadow
04-14-2011, 1:58 PM
It could simply be someone trying to bait calguns into doing something stupid. Wouldn't that be a coup for the anti-gun zealots to nail someone associated with calguns. then they could point an accusatory finger and tell everyone how evil calguns is.

lewisracing
04-14-2011, 2:47 PM
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQlMjdQH29Uynj3UIK2qGFgrFbNbraFv own-j0OL1FUGig9BxQV&t=1

Scott Connors
04-14-2011, 3:47 PM
Were people actually volunteering for this?

People volunteer to be suicide bombers, so why should this come as any surprise? I would hope and expect, though, that the type of person who frequents these boards (well, except for the odd LCAV or DOJ spy) is too intelligent to consider something this stupid.

rero360
04-14-2011, 4:34 PM
Sooo.... I shouldn't walk down the street in purple combat boots, a tutu, Chewbaca mask, slathered in grape jello with my AR slung across my back with a loaded 30 rounder in with BB removed and a round chambered?


bwahaha, JK

Nor-Cal
04-14-2011, 4:41 PM
I hope who ever is spreading this rumor gets shutdown fast!

DisgruntledReaper
04-14-2011, 4:42 PM
Sooo.... I shouldn't walk down the street in purple combat boots, a tutu, Chewbaca mask, slathered in grape jello with my AR slung across my back with a loaded 30 rounder in with BB removed and a round chambered?


bwahaha, JK

If you do we need a pic of that !!!!!:eek::eek:;):D:D:D

IrishPirate
04-14-2011, 4:46 PM
I'm hoping this is Anti's trying to get CGN in trouble. It would be so nice to slam them for that!!!

There's only a few things i'm willing to get arrested for, and none of them have anything to do with assault weapons (unless you cont the scenario where i use an AW to slaughter those that killed my family, but that's really the only one, i swear!)

Fjold
04-14-2011, 4:58 PM
Brandon,

All you have to do is ask the person who you heard it from where they heard it and follow the chain back to the source. The first time you get the "I don't want to tell and get someone in trouble" you've found your idiot.

hornswaggled
04-14-2011, 5:06 PM
Bubba owes me money. I'm getting inside one way or another.

yakmon
04-14-2011, 5:11 PM
i think it would be smarter to experiment with condoms, toilet paper, and lighter fluid, than get myself arrested for an AW charge.

E Pluribus Unum
04-14-2011, 5:22 PM
Brandon,

All you have to do is ask the person who you heard it from where they heard it and follow the chain back to the source. The first time you get the "I don't want to tell and get someone in trouble" you've found your idiot.

^^ This

yellowfin
04-14-2011, 5:30 PM
It doesn't help that there's a lot of cryptic strategic talk with vague details, particularly related to legal proceedings and questionable points of the law, to make the unorthodox seem plausible.

Patriot Man
04-14-2011, 5:36 PM
Who would do that- how about a shill, like people from certain agencies who need more funding and run guns south of the border and turn around and say "80% of guns in Mexico are from the US". Staged arrest do occur for political purposes.

kermitz
04-14-2011, 5:41 PM
I hope who ever is spreading this rumor gets shutdown fast!

+1
It only takes one bad apple to ruin it for everyone.

Falkirk
04-14-2011, 6:55 PM
Who in their right mind would actually begin to contemplate doing such a thing?

I hope the one's responsible for this have a rigorous meeting with a sack of door knobs.

scarville
04-14-2011, 7:03 PM
i think it would be smarter to experiment with condoms, toilet paper, and lighter fluid, than get myself arrested for an AW charge.
Absolutely.

OTOH, a lubricated condom, a firecracker, a couple cc's of hydrochloric acid, a wooden match, a copper penny and some natural gas can be quite entertaining.

IBTL!

Paul S
04-14-2011, 7:05 PM
It could simply be someone trying to bait calguns into doing something stupid. Wouldn't that be a coup for the anti-gun zealots to nail someone associated with calguns. then they could point an accusatory finger and tell everyone how evil calguns is.

Very plausible reason..especially since there are quite likely many anti's who view with great concern the continuing growth of Calguns and its effective activities.

rero360
04-14-2011, 7:09 PM
Who would do that- how bout a shill, like people from certain agencies who need more funding anf run guns to Mexico and say all our guns are illegally going to Mexico. Staged arrest do occur for political purposes.

Given the other shenanigans that have been going on, I wouldn't doubt a staged arrest and trial for political purposes in the slightest .

OC_Gunman
04-14-2011, 7:14 PM
It doesn't help that there's a lot of cryptic strategic talk with vague details, particularly related to legal proceedings and questionable points of the law, to make the unorthodox seem plausible.

+1

It doesn't help when certain "right people" pull their "I know a secret but I'm not telling" glory trip. If you have a secret plan to blow up gun control, then keep it secret, don't tease us with "I have a secret (and that makes me important!)"

hoffmang
04-14-2011, 7:14 PM
http://lolpics.se/pics/482.jpg

-Gene

Saigon1965
04-14-2011, 7:20 PM
Dear Father - The nuts are out -

killmime1234
04-14-2011, 7:21 PM
Haha. If it weren't for the fact that this is in the 2A section, I would've believed this to be a joke. Who would believe that CGN would incite people to commit a felony?

N6ATF
04-14-2011, 7:39 PM
+1

It doesn't help when certain "right people" pull their "I know a secret but I'm not telling" glory trip. If you have a secret plan to blow up gun control, then keep it secret, don't tease us with "I have a secret (and that makes me important!)"

Indeed. Stealth submarine. Sink the criminals' battleships. Toot your horn back at your base after you crush your enemies, see them sink to the bottom - then seize their bank accounts and assets, and hear the lamentation of their women.

eastbayjordan
04-14-2011, 7:54 PM
what i wish you would have told me a littler sooner :eek:

Exposed
04-14-2011, 11:26 PM
Wow! Really? Wow! What idiot(s) are going around giving that great advice and giving CGF "credit" for it? Some people are unbelievable.

Matt C
04-14-2011, 11:35 PM
Yeah, ****ing up your life permanently, on purpose, is not going to help the RKBA efforts.

mrvash
04-14-2011, 11:44 PM
What freakin' idiots! and the people that may have gone along with their advice are even more of an idiot!

ErikTheRed
04-14-2011, 11:54 PM
Sooo.... I shouldn't walk down the street in purple combat boots, a tutu, Chewbaca mask, slathered in grape jello

Well it sure as hell beats walking down the street wearing an "Obama08" t-shirt. Now THAT would be embarrassing. :o

Jimmy310
04-15-2011, 1:06 AM
http://kickthis.typepad.com/.a/6a0115707beb82970b0120a4f90f83970b-320wi

oaklander
04-15-2011, 2:19 AM
I have not heard this one. But it sounds like something that gets passed around by people who have nothing better to do.

1) Asking someone to commit a crime is IN ITSELF ILLEGAL!

2) Participating in that crime is ILLEGAL!

Me, and everyone I know, have spent the last several years TELLING PEOPLE HOW TO REMAIN LEGAL AND HOW TO OBEY ALL LAWS. And that's not just on Calguns.

I can't tell you how many people I have politely counseled on the AW laws.

All it takes is one idiot to ruin everything.

I hate to keep repeating my "morals" mantra - but the reality is that we lose ALL CREDIBILITY as a coherent movement if we attempt to do anything that is not (1) legal, (2) ethical, and (3) moral.

This is stuff that people should have learned in kindergarten, and I am fully prepared to send someone to the corner wearing a dunce cap if I spot them (or hear about them) doing something that jeopardizes this.

I'm not the type of person who "sells people out" - but if I hear of someone doing something illegal with the clear intent of purposely trying to harm the California 2A Rights Movement, and if for me to to do so does not otherwise violate the attorney ethics that I am required by law to adhere to, I will personally pick up the phone and call one of my contacts at DOJ/ATF - and I WILL NOT LOSE ONE SECOND OF SLEEP OVER IT.

I am THAT serious about this issue. Do not even test me on this.

oaklander
04-15-2011, 2:37 AM
I tend to agree with this, but I think that it's more subtle. . .

1) If someone says that "the Calguns Foundation has successfully defended people who were improperly arrested," they would be telling the truth:

http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/news/successful-defenses.html

2) If someone says that "the CGF works to help people who have been improperly arrested," they would be telling the truth:

http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/cgf-hotline.html

3) If someone says that "the CGF has changed state law and is changing state law through strategic litigation," they would be telling the truth:

http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/about/what-has-cgf-done-for-me-lately.html

--- Personally, I think what happened here is that someone simply read all that, and formed some "wacky conclusion." This "wacky conclusion" has no basis in reality. But, as we all know - the public school system is generally failing here in California, and many people lack simple reasoning skills.

That being said, if I find someone who is deliberately doing something illegal in some sort of forlorn hope that CGF will come "rescue" them, and they refuse to listen to my "polite counseling" on the topic, I will do what I need to do (legally and ethically) to prevent them from harming the work that so many people have spent every free hour of their waking lives doing. . .

Brandon,

All you have to do is ask the person who you heard it from where they heard it and follow the chain back to the source. The first time you get the "I don't want to tell and get someone in trouble" you've found your idiot.

edwardm
04-15-2011, 4:32 AM
Most rumors seem to encase a kernel of misconstrued truth.

The rumor about "please go break the law so we have a case."

The recent arrests for hicap importation in CA after BRS.

An alleged arrestee allegedly showing up on CGN 24-odd hours ago (thread nuked for anyone who goes looking, but the Internet is forever, folks.)

Gene's effort re: importing hicap mags (eventually).

Could be the wrong pieces, but they are pieces.

SanPedroShooter
04-15-2011, 4:33 AM
What would the harm be? People get arrested all the time for AW stuff right? Are we worried that the arrestee would say, "calguns made me do it", kinda like son of sam? Would it hurt our rep? I am just confused here, I think in this case the idea of the rumor is more harmful than some fool getting busted and blaming CGF...

Its seems kinda hard to seriously defame an organization with a track record like this one.

NotEnufGarage
04-15-2011, 5:01 AM
What would the harm be? People get arrested all the time for AW stuff right? Are we worried that the arrestee would say, "calguns made me do it", kinda like son of sam? Would it hurt our rep? I am just confused here, I think in this case the idea of the rumor is more harmful than some fool getting busted and blaming CGF...

Its seems kinda hard to seriously defame an organization with a track record like this one.

Just wow!! Are you naive. Have you ever read some of the threads in the "off topic" forum? An outsider looking in would have a field day there with all the zombie, SHTF, Niel McCauley and California going to hell threads. The lampooning by the MSM would be brutal.

SanPedroShooter
04-15-2011, 5:16 AM
Why not do that now if its such a good target? Calguns is way more sanatized than a lot of other sites. And would an AW arrest, with no shots fired really make it past page 3?
Havent we had members that have commited crimes, commited sucide, what about ben cannon?? That dude is being sued all over the place, fed/ state investigations etc.. he even got arrested for impersonating a cop, he is or was closley tied to calguns in some peoples mind.

I am not saying the warning is not appropriate, we should guard the work we do as closely as possible, but just doing what the foundation does is gonna invite all kinds of slander from our enemies, doesent the foundation exist in part to help people fight phoney gun charges? Someone getting popped on purpose or claiming that Calguns made him do it, wouldnt end the party in my opinion. If the DA took that kind of statement seroiusly, wouldnt he call the director to find out? It sounds like a conspiracy charge at least, that kind of thing could definitily cause damage, but the MSM running some kind of attack campaign against this internet site....? I just dont see it. Not unless someone dies or huge sums of money are involved.

I do not wish to detract from the seriousness of the warning from people that understand these issues far better than I do, I cant really remember what my point was, but anybody that would even consider felony arrest on this issue is a damn fool.

Santa Cruz Armory
04-15-2011, 5:45 AM
Folks, think of it as a team effort. Don't do something stupid to jeopardize the win... remember, it's a series of small battles.

Andy Taylor
04-15-2011, 6:02 AM
If you do we need a pic of that !!!!!:eek::eek:;):D:D:D

No, we don't

greasemonkey
04-15-2011, 6:40 AM
Just wow!! Are you naive. Have you ever read some of the threads in the "off topic" forum? An outsider looking in would have a field day there with all the zombie, SHTF, Niel McCauley and California going to hell threads. The lampooning by the MSM would be brutal.

No, Brent is not naive.

robcoe
04-15-2011, 7:15 AM
All,

A brief note to clear the air with respect to a nasty rumor floating around.

There seems to be one or more gun owners in the Northern California area who have recently asserted publicly that CGF is looking for volunteers to be arrested for an illegal SB23 AW. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY AND UNEQUIVOCALLY FALSE.

CGF WOULD NEVER ASK ANYONE TO COMMIT A CRIME. DO NOT COMMIT A CRIME FOR ANY REASON.

If anyone has additional info on this, please 1) SHUT IT DOWN, and 2) PM me or any CGF board member.

Thanks for your attention and looking out for your fellow gun owners.

-Brandon

Seriously, someone would actually believe that?

SanPedroShooter
04-15-2011, 7:27 AM
No, Brent is not naive.

Ha ha, thanks for the character reference! But I may be way off base all the same, anyway it seems like crisis averted. The word has gone out, anyone who thinks CGF is soliciting people to commit felonies has been put on notice.

Wherryj
04-15-2011, 7:30 AM
Just wow!! Are you naive. Have you ever read some of the threads in the "off topic" forum? An outsider looking in would have a field day there with all the zombie, SHTF, Niel McCauley and California going to hell threads. The lampooning by the MSM would be brutal.

I agree with you and point to yesterday's story about the LAPD and their perceived need to provide significant additional security at the LA Dodgers/St. Loius game.

There hasn't been any sort of significant violence at Dodger Stadium since it opened in the 60s-until the now infamous Giants' fan beating. LAPD stated that it was important to give a strong showing because the fans' PERCEPTION or crime was just as important as the actual risk of crime at the stadium

All that it takes is one "WTH?" situation to give enough fuel to those pushing an agenda to ignite a bonfire. The anti-s have never seen that strong on following logic or using real statistics. Innuendo, fear and emotion are their trademarks.

Wherryj
04-15-2011, 7:32 AM
No, we don't

I am already having trouble burning the mental image out of my brain as it is.

lomalinda
04-15-2011, 7:36 AM
"Seriously, someone would actually believe that?"

I'm not surprised in the least. During the past year at Angeles, there have been countless people showing up all manner of SB23 violations. Often, these people draw attention to themselves for rapid fire and cease fire transgressions. So, yeah, I can believe a person would be stupid enough to do what apparently has been "asked" of them by who-knows-who on the internet.

The massive influx of new firearms owners is a double-edged sword: it's great to have new people at the party. But when people are not doing their homework, claiming that the minutiae is unworthy of their time, things can go sideways really quickly for the whole movement.

When your anus hangs in the balance, details count.

Barbarossa
04-15-2011, 7:49 AM
Wow.... Anti's trying to discredit? ....

oaklander
04-15-2011, 9:03 AM
EM - I don't think it's a deliberate plot by our opposition. No sane member of any legitimate anti-guin group would do something like that. As much as I like to tease "them" on the forums and FB, they are not "bad people" - at worst, they are misguided people. I also do not have any personal animosity against our opposition as a whole.

None of us should - the fact that we have political opposition is because we live in a country that allows political opposition. This is a GREAT thing, and at the risk of sounding like a bumper sticker - we DO live in a great country and a great state (I truly believe that).

Again - I think it's more along the lines of someone who "thinks" they are putting together the puzzle pieces, when in reality - they are jamming them together into some misshapen "completed" picture that does not exist in reality.

ALSO - having researched the issue USING PUBLICLY AVAILABLE DATA - I can assure everyone that CGF had nothing to do with ANY arrests. CGF never will have anything to do with any arrests. The timing was more along the lines of "every year at this time the same thing happens, since there's a gun show in Reno every year."

Let's not get all TFH about this (not you - but I'm now seeing it from other people). There is no conspiracy to discredit the pro gun movement in CA. Any political actor worth his or her salt would realize the danger of completely losing everything (politically) if such a conspiracy was to be revealed. The anti's won't take that risk. Just like we won't do anything like that to them.

Even though we are both on opposite sides of the issue - there is a measure of détente and manners here.

klt

Most rumors seem to encase a kernel of misconstrued truth.

The rumor about "please go break the law so we have a case."

The recent arrests for hicap importation in CA after BRS.

An alleged arrestee allegedly showing up on CGN 24-odd hours ago (thread nuked for anyone who goes looking, but the Internet is forever, folks.)

Gene's effort re: importing hicap mags (eventually).

Could be the wrong pieces, but they are pieces.

TGZ
04-15-2011, 9:44 AM
April fools

greasemonkey
04-15-2011, 10:12 AM
Ha ha, thanks for the character reference! But I may be way off base all the same, anyway it seems like crisis averted. The word has gone out, anyone who thinks CGF is soliciting people to commit felonies has been put on notice.

I didn't say you're not bat**** crazy, just that you're not naive :D

Steyrlp10
04-15-2011, 11:15 AM
Wow... the moon is full :eek:

lewisracing
04-15-2011, 11:20 AM
Wow... the moon is full :eek:

Yea it is...

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-wHJpViucJMQ/TXlf5eDyZYI/AAAAAAAAAac/fbT3tiVZYzM/charlie-sheen-winning-recipes.jpg

bwiese
04-15-2011, 11:27 AM
I was talking with Chuck Michel and Jason Davis a couple of years ago about some OLL vs AW arrests, and Chucks' words were, "We don't need any stinkin' martyrs."

Except Chuck didn't use the word "stinkin'".

Most "synthetic" or forced situations will neutralize any remotely possible defendable or appealable element.

I can't imagine who'd start up such an effort.

jl123
04-15-2011, 11:35 AM
Just wow!! Are you naive. Have you ever read some of the threads in the "off topic" forum? An outsider looking in would have a field day there with all the zombie, SHTF, Niel McCauley and California going to hell threads. The lampooning by the MSM would be brutal.

I would be more concerned about the thinly veiled racism and occasional person asking when is the overbearing government going to get to the point where people will take it down by force.

Window_Seat
04-15-2011, 12:12 PM
This "asking someone to do something illegal", or "becoming a martyr" reminds me of this...
:eek:GHOST POST FROM THE PAST (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=273493):eek:

Anyone remember this craigslist ad from long ago:

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i168/trucknetter/CraigslistCallCops.jpg?t=1302897994

Naaahhhh, it doesn't happen..... The anti's don't think up crap like this..... :laugh:

Erik.

oaklander
04-15-2011, 12:19 PM
LOL

Yes - agreed - an individual group would not do it as a matter of official policy.

BUT - all groups have people who are fringe members. These fringers sometimes do stupid crap. This person actually committed a crime here under some interpretations of "hate speech laws" when used in conjunction with "incitement" laws.

I support the 1A - so I think his/her words are protected.

BUT - we need to watch for the "fringers" - totally agreed!!!!!!!!!

Like I've said before, I have no problem shutting someone like this down - no matter WHICH side they are on. WRONG IS WRONG - ALWAYS.

This "asking someone to do something illegal", or "becoming a martyr" reminds me of this...
:eek:GHOST POST FROM THE PAST (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=273493):eek:

Anyone remember this craigslist ad from long ago:

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i168/trucknetter/CraigslistCallCops.jpg?t=1302897994

Naaahhhh, it doesn't happen..... The anti's don't think up crap like this..... :laugh:

Erik.

JRob
04-15-2011, 12:23 PM
Are these morons really gun owners? And if so, have they volunteered themselves yet?

If not, that should tell everyone everything they need to know about this.

Just speculating on possible provocatueurs

LCAV.....

Bradyites....

Nut jobs....

useful idiots

edwardm
04-15-2011, 12:47 PM
I was talking with Chuck Michel and Jason Davis a couple of years ago about some OLL vs AW arrests, and Chucks' words were, "We don't need any stinkin' martyrs."

Except Chuck didn't use the word "stinkin'".

Most "synthetic" or forced situations will neutralize any remotely possible defendable or appealable element.

I can't imagine who'd start up such an effort.

There's the lawyer, in the Sacramento area....

Nah, couldn't be that easy of an answer. ;)

oaklander
04-15-2011, 1:27 PM
I know most of the lawyers in that area. They are also of the same opinion that I am on this topic.

There's the lawyer, in the Sacramento area....

Nah, couldn't be that easy of an answer. ;)

edwardm
04-15-2011, 1:44 PM
I know most of the lawyers in that area. They are also of the same opinion that I am on this topic.

You're missing the joke-ski. :)

oaklander
04-15-2011, 1:53 PM
Sorry, trying to multi-task - and FAILING!

LOL

I gotta get back to work! Calguns is going to make me poor (I get paid by the hour).

You're missing the joke-ski. :)

ubet
04-15-2011, 2:14 PM
oak, welcome to club poor, or in my case broke. LOL

oaklander
04-15-2011, 2:20 PM
OMG!

I'm proof that not all lawyers are rich!!!!

The reason is that I spend about 60 percent of my time doing pro-bono gun rights stuff - and the other 40 percent is split between my day job (which pays pretty well), and my gun trusts stuff (which I deliberately keep inexpensive for people so they can afford them).

BUT - I am the happiest I've ever been in my life! I just love the stuff that people let me do on this issue - and like I said, I'm just happy people let me help them do it!!!

So - money will come - someday - but even if not - I'm still happy and I feel kind of useful.

:D

oak, welcome to club poor, or in my case broke. LOL

AndrewMendez
04-15-2011, 2:27 PM
OMG!

I'm proof that not all lawyers are rich!!!!

The reason is that I spend about 60 percent of my time doing pro-bono gun rights stuff - and the other 40 percent is split between my day job (which pays pretty well), and my gun trusts stuff (which I deliberately keep inexpensive for people so they can afford them).

BUT - I am the happiest I've ever been in my life! I just love the stuff that people let me do on this issue - and like I said, I'm just happy people let me help them do it!!!

So - money will come - someday - but even if not - I'm still happy and I feel kind of useful.

:D

I quit a well paying job, to spend more time with my family. It sucked for a little bit finances wise, but by far, the best thing I have ever done. Fast fwd a few years, I am healthy, happy, and the money finally caught up to where it should be. ;)

MasterYong
04-15-2011, 2:34 PM
Probably gun store FUD.

Almost every gun store I've been in (except one) where I mentioned CalGuns the employee has gone off about how CGF is a bunch of no-nothing idiot kids that are just going to get you arrested. I've even heard that CGF works with the antis to "try and get you arrested". I've always just assumed they're pissed that the OLL and similar movements have made their jobs more complicated in terms of understanding the laws.

I could easily see that turn into "CalGuns wants you to get arrested" and combined with "CalGuns will take your case if you're arrested" even though it's false.

jwkincal
04-15-2011, 2:35 PM
I quit a well paying job, to spend more time with my family. It sucked for a little bit finances wise, but by far, the best thing I have ever done. Fast fwd a few years, I am healthy, happy, and the money finally caught up to where it should be. ;)

Always choose the family. Nobody ever says on their deathbead "I wish I had spent more time at my job..."

I suppose we should stop the OT though.

oaklander
04-15-2011, 2:51 PM
Yes - sorry to go OT - but I agree.

Me and SierraApril spend a lot of time together now - since as some of you know - I work from home.

I remember when I first got into practice - I never saw anyone except a bunch of other lawyers - as you can imagine - it sucked.

I quit a well paying job, to spend more time with my family. It sucked for a little bit finances wise, but by far, the best thing I have ever done. Fast fwd a few years, I am healthy, happy, and the money finally caught up to where it should be. ;)

Dirmer3
04-15-2011, 6:22 PM
It's good you've cleared the air. It is important for others to know CGF would never condone such activity.

Oaklander- You have a great head on your shoulders and I really like the way you think.

oaklander
04-15-2011, 6:29 PM
Thank you.

I'm really blessed to be a part of all of this stuff - I really feel that way. I'm just happy people let me help with it.

LOL

I'll stop now before I start sounding like I am in "campaign speech" mode!!!

More seriously, I guess that being a lawyer helps with all of this stuff, and I'm a pretty good writer, and I generally am kind of reasonable (except when I go on to FB and debate people), and I understand internet stuff - so it all fits together to make me useful to the real folks.

Like I said, I'm seriously just someone who likes to help on this - and I have no illusions that I am a shot-caller or anything like that. I just do what people need me to do - and let the actual smart people figure out strategy.

It's good you've cleared the air. It is important for others to know CGF would never condone such activity.

Oaklander- You have a great head on your shoulders and I really like the way you think.

hoffmang
04-15-2011, 6:48 PM
Gene's effort re: importing hicap mags (eventually).

Could be the wrong pieces, but they are pieces.
Let me be crystal bleeping clear. I do not ever break a law. I destroy it via the courts while never actually violating any gun related law - no matter how unjust.
There's the lawyer, in the Sacramento area....

Nah, couldn't be that easy of an answer. ;)

He's been busy with a couple of personal cases of his own. Wonder if his bar card will survive violating probation....

-Gene

edwardm
04-15-2011, 7:40 PM
Let me be crystal bleeping clear. I do not ever break a law. I destroy it via the courts while never actually violating any gun related law - no matter how unjust.


Calm down. Not saying you did. I was saying that other folks, less informed, could pick up tidbits of information here and there and come to a (in their mind) logical, but fatally incorrect, conclusion about permitted behavior.

Sensitive much? :)


He's been busy with a couple of personal cases of his own. Wonder if his bar card will survive violating probation....

-Gene

I hope not. If ever there was cause to yank it, he's shown it.

hoffmang
04-15-2011, 7:54 PM
Calm down. Not saying you did. I was saying that other folks, less informed, could pick up tidbits of information here and there and come to a (in their mind) logical, but fatally incorrect, conclusion about permitted behavior.

Sensitive much? :)

Someone like you, no. Many people who lurk here - I want to make sure people understand how this game is played.

I hope not. If ever there was cause to yank it, he's shown it.
Twice on the edge of moral turpitude on the same issue ends up being a problem...

-Gene

oaklander
04-15-2011, 8:41 PM
I miss all the gossip!!!!

G1500
04-15-2011, 9:20 PM
I miss all the gossip!!!!

That makes one of us.

:D

edwardm
04-15-2011, 9:22 PM
Someone like you, no. Many people who lurk here - I want to make sure people understand how this game is played.


Twice on the edge of moral turpitude on the same issue ends up being a problem...

-Gene

Point taken. Many new people finding out about both CGN and CGF. First impressions and a clear understanding of how things Must Be are critical.

Mmmmm...Moral Turpitude. Dare I ask whose tall cotton he sh*t in this time?

oaklander
04-15-2011, 9:22 PM
EPIC!

:D

No love for Oak anymore!!!! I'm washed up!!!

That makes one of us.

:D

G1500
04-15-2011, 9:31 PM
EPIC!

:D

No love for Oak anymore!!!! I'm washed up!!!

Lol.

I wouldn't say washed up, but I generally prefer to stay out of the drama and don't really care for gossip.

hoffmang
04-15-2011, 9:37 PM
Point taken. Many new people finding out about both CGN and CGF. First impressions and a clear understanding of how things Must Be are critical.

Mmmmm...Moral Turpitude. Dare I ask whose tall cotton he sh*t in this time?

>.08 with injury to others plus a parole violation....

But he's our best hope...

-Gene

oaklander
04-15-2011, 9:38 PM
Yes - exactly! There's some stuff I would rather NOT know!!!!!

:D

ETA: my life is boring sometimes. I guess that's good!!!!

Lol.

I wouldn't say washed up, but I generally prefer to stay out of the drama and don't really care for gossip.

Spyder
04-15-2011, 9:39 PM
Son of a...

Apparently I need to spend MORE time on here to know just what is going on in the world!

MP301
04-15-2011, 9:49 PM
Point taken. Many new people finding out about both CGN and CGF. First impressions and a clear understanding of how things Must Be are critical.

Mmmmm...Moral Turpitude. Dare I ask whose tall cotton he sh*t in this time?

Im curious myself. If its true, its not rumors and gossip, right?:43:

oaklander
04-15-2011, 9:55 PM
OK, now I am imagining all of us sitting around making a quilt, and looking at each other over our bi-focals.

Not sure if that's good or bad????

http://www.bluewinds.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/quilting-300x226.jpg

Im curious myself. If its true, its not rumors and gossip, right?:43:

resident-shooter
04-15-2011, 9:56 PM
I advise this ALL the time. I actually got 3 people arrested on AW charges. Now time to rescue them, CGF !!! :)

hoffmang
04-15-2011, 11:17 PM
Im curious myself. If its true, its not rumors and gossip, right?:43:

I'm basically a "just the facts" kinda guy.

-Gene

Lone_Gunman
04-15-2011, 11:36 PM
Boy howdie. If You Know Whoski's bar gets yanked I would consider that a win for the 2A community. That guy... not winning, and no tiger's blood, that's for sure.

oaklander
04-15-2011, 11:43 PM
Not to OT the thread - but I will anyways!

WINNING!

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=421649

Boy howdie. If You Know Whoski's bar gets yanked I would consider that a win for the 2A community. That guy... not winning, and no tiger's blood, that's for sure.

Lone_Gunman
04-16-2011, 12:16 AM
Not to OT the thread - but I will anyways!

WINNING!

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=421649

HA. I was just looking at that thread. I didn't watch any of the videos though. I only have so much time in my day for irrational people and since today was a work day that time got used up pretty quickly.

NorCalDustin
04-16-2011, 1:01 AM
I'm hoping this is Anti's trying to get CGN in trouble. It would be so nice to slam them for that!!!

Same...

Though, I dont think any Anti Association would pull some crap like that... But I could see some crazy Anti's who would... Unfortunately (In the past), I've overheard some anti's saying things to the effect that If they knew their neighbors had guns that they would periodically call, and lie to the police. That could turn into a potential PITA, and is one of the reasons that I personally remain so discrete about this hobby.

It is what it is...


As firearms owners however, We can never lie or spread misinformation.

edwardm
04-16-2011, 1:36 AM
>.08 with injury to others plus a parole violation....

But he's our best hope...

-Gene

:eek:

I wouldn't let that man defend a parking ticket, were it up to me.

oaklander
04-16-2011, 3:05 AM
I'm such a DA, I still can'tski figure out who this is!!!

:eek:

I wouldn't let that man defend a parking ticket, were it up to me.

CCWFacts
04-16-2011, 1:52 PM
He's been busy with a couple of personal cases of his own. Wonder if his bar card will survive violating probation....

I haven't been following this. Are you referring to our favorite Gorski? Ah I really hope he gets disbarred, and "otherwise occupied", for the next five years at least. If he's in legal trouble I hope he's defending himself to his best ability.

N6ATF
04-16-2011, 3:20 PM
What happens to a disbarred lawyer's active cases?

oaklander
04-16-2011, 4:36 PM
Never had to think about it! Hope I don't have to LOL. . .

There's probably a procedure outlined at calbar - but I know for a fact that the clients absolutely have to be notified of what's going on - this even applies to minor violations of bar rules that result in any discipline. . .

The state bar in CA is very strict - and most of us like it that way. It helps the public understand that we take things seriously.

I can't comment on anything other than what I just wrote, since as you all can tell - I know nothing about the underlying issues and/or facts. . .

I can tell you that the standard of care that lawyers have to use in ANY relationship with their clients is the HIGHEST LEVEL as defined by law - it's "fiduciary" - you are essentially required to put your clients' interests before yours, except in very limited situations.

It's kind of like the obligation that you have towards your children, or your grandparents, or basically anyone in your life who you want to treat absolutely perfectly.

Sorry to sound so idealistic, but there's really not much wiggle room on this - if people can't trust lawyers - our whole legal system falls apart - and (setting all lawyer jokes aside) that would really suck - if you think about it.

I myself only practice in VERY limited areas, because I simply do not ever want to make one single mistake that would harm a client's interest.

What happens to a disbarred lawyer's active cases?

edwardm
04-17-2011, 6:34 AM
Ah, that's the (in)famous Rule 9.20 of the California Rules of Court (for the most part, there's also some stuff in the Rules of Professional Conduct and some other crud in the B&P code).

It's a pretty screwed up situation. And bear in mind that unless you do something *REALLY* horrible, the State Bar gives usually you several chances to get your sh*t together before they finally yank your license. There are times when 1 screw up is enough, and that's it, you're outta the pool. But that's not too common.

Moral of the story - don't be a jerk. ;)

Never had to think about it! Hope I don't have to LOL. . .

There's probably a procedure outlined at calbar - but I know for a fact that the clients absolutely have to be notified of what's going on - this even applies to minor violations of bar rules that result in any discipline. . .

The state bar in CA is very strict - and most of us like it that way. It helps the public understand that we take things seriously.

I can't comment on anything other than what I just wrote, since as you all can tell - I know nothing about the underlying issues and/or facts. . .

I can tell you that the standard of care that lawyers have to use in ANY relationship with their clients is the HIGHEST LEVEL as defined by law - it's "fiduciary" - you are essentially required to put your clients' interests before yours, except in very limited situations.

It's kind of like the obligation that you have towards your children, or your grandparents, or basically anyone in your life who you want to treat absolutely perfectly.

Sorry to sound so idealistic, but there's really not much wiggle room on this - if people can't trust lawyers - our whole legal system falls apart - and (setting all lawyer jokes aside) that would really suck - if you think about it.

I myself only practice in VERY limited areas, because I simply do not ever want to make one single mistake that would harm a client's interest.

tankerman
04-17-2011, 7:14 AM
Ah, gotta love rumors.

I find it's usually the person that's spreading them that's taken something out of context.

hoffmang
04-17-2011, 10:33 AM
Ah, gotta love rumors.

I find it's usually the person that's spreading them that's taken something out of context.

There are rumors and then there are things on public dockets in public records.

-Gene

trashman
04-17-2011, 7:37 PM
There are rumors and then there are things on public dockets in public records.


I don't understand. You mean like the ones the El Dorado County Sheriff might keep?

--Neill

hoffmang
04-17-2011, 7:47 PM
I don't understand. You mean like the ones the El Dorado County Sheriff might keep?

--Neill

A local to the person in question's superior court.

-Gene

trashman
04-17-2011, 7:49 PM
A local to the person in question's superior court.


Ah of course ;). Dockets, not arrest records..

--Neill

oaklander
04-17-2011, 10:27 PM
I just lost my needle! How the heck can I do quilt-making without a needle???

:D

Ah of course ;). Dockets, not arrest records..

--Neill

oaklander
04-18-2011, 4:24 AM
Folks - after some research, and some discussions with people who are aware of this issue, I think I may have identified the source of the "rumor."

Again, the rumor simply is not true.

At this point, steps are being taken to (1) determine the extent of the problem, (2) determine whether my theory is correct, and (3) to determine how to make sure it does not happen again. For obvious legal reasons, (since the deliberate spread of this type of information constitutes actual and actionable libel/slander in certain cases) - I can't and won't go into details.

I also ask people to not speculate on this matter.

I also urge everyone to use common sense when they hear FUD. If it sounds crazy, it IS crazy. There are no Calguns black helicopters, and none of us were born in Kenya, we didn't blow up the WTC, we don't operate FEMA internment camps, etc. . .

We are just unpaid volunteer guys who like helping fix gun rights. That's all we are.

:D

And if you aren't sure if something is true, please try and track it back to its source.

I can assure everyone that this sort of thing will not be tolerated. We all have worked very hard to get where we are right now. Even though we may disagree on many things, I think we can agree that the deliberate spread of pure disinformation, in the apparent attempt to politically destabilize a legitimate political movement, has absolutely no place in a free democracy.

This is not the way that things are supposed to work. And there are legal and even criminal remedies when people try to do things this way. Again, we are not living in some crazy unstable Central-American country. We are in the United States, and we play by the rules - even if we do not like them.

People who do not want to do things the legal and ethical way have a bleak political future. That's all I am going to say.