PDA

View Full Version : AR15 vs other similar rifles (in California)


jdouglas
04-14-2011, 1:28 PM
I'm interested in getting an AR15, but a friend of mine says that they are pretty much neutered here in CA, mostly due to the bullet button limitation (either that or go with a featureless setup), and I should get something else. I know the bullet button is a pain compared to what other states get, but is it as bad as he says (he doesn't own one and isn't speaking from personal experience)? He said I might want to look into other semi-auto rifles like the SU16, Mini 14, and even the SKS, as none of the require bullet buttons and are cheaper too. I've considered some of those, and they might work (although I had a chance to hold an SKS and TBH I didn't like how much it weighed), but there is something about the AR15 that just screams "buy me!". :-D

No matter what gun I get, I probably won't be doing a ton of shooting (I'm thinking in the hundreds of rounds a year max, definnitely not thousands). It will mostly be for plinking way out in the wilderness a few times a year, SHTF/HD scenarios (very unlikely), and as a central peice to the start of my gun collection (which I plan to keep fairly small, if that is possible).

Anyway, do you think I would be happier with something else? Or is the AR15 still a good gun, even with the CA bullet button/10 round mag limitations?

Bluhdow!
04-14-2011, 1:30 PM
Saiga 7.62x39.

Rock6.3
04-14-2011, 1:32 PM
Ask your friend if he is willing to try and catch any of the projectiles that the nutered AR-15 sends down range. Then ask him "are you afraid that a nutered gun can still be effective?"

MXRider
04-14-2011, 1:32 PM
M1A

AeroEngi
04-14-2011, 1:33 PM
You still need a bullet button or any kind of magazine locking device if you plan to buy and shoot a semi-auto, centerfire rifle in California. Buying a rifle other than an AR-15 does not make you exempt from the law.

AeroEngi
04-14-2011, 1:34 PM
With "evil" features I might add...sorry, left that out.

Norsemen308
04-14-2011, 1:36 PM
ur friend is smokin crack... do me a favor, take a sks, and the rest to the range and bring a cali legal ar... tell me A which one gets more attention and B which one is most accurate?

dieselpower
04-14-2011, 1:36 PM
For what you want you want a AR15 + Bullet Button + 10 round magazines (NOT 10/30s for the cool factor) + A 22lr conversion BOLT.

You will have a blast firing 5.56, you will have a blast firing CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP 22lr ammo all day long.

If you are going to buy a gun, do not get something you don't want...thats freaking stupid. I want the Camaro, I have the money for the Camaro..I bought the mini-van cuz my mommy said it was more practicle...screw that.

The BB isn't that bad a deal. So what you take 2 seconds to swap a magazine rather than 1 second.

The versatility of going from 5.56 to 22lr, to 6.8, to 7.62x39 to 5.7 then back to 5.56 and .223 = the best firearm money can buy.

Your buddy has no clue what he is missing and the first day you take him out with your AR15 .223/5.56/22lr set up is the same day he goes and buys one too. I'll bet the farm on it.

Trapper
04-14-2011, 1:39 PM
Sounds like you need some range time. No need to rush into anything, take your time, shoot several rifles in several calibers before buying anything. There are tons of, " what is the best........." posts on this forum and the Ford v/s Chevy debate will go on forever. Find a range with rifles for rent and try out a few. You may also want to watch for Calguns events and shoots in your area.

jdouglas
04-14-2011, 1:50 PM
For what you want you want a AR15 + Bullet Button + 10 round magazines (NOT 10/30s for the cool factor) + A 22lr conversion BOLT.

You will have a blast firing 5.56, you will have a blast firing CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP 22lr ammo all day long.

If you are going to buy a gun, do not get something you don't want...thats freaking stupid. I want the Camaro, I have the money for the Camaro..I bought the mini-van cuz my mommy said it was more practicle...screw that.

The BB isn't that bad a deal. So what you take 2 seconds to swap a magazine rather than 1 second.

The versatility of going from 5.56 to 22lr, to 6.8, to 7.62x39 to 5.7 then back to 5.56 and .223 = the best firearm money can buy.

Your buddy has no clue what he is missing and the first day you take him out with your AR15 .223/5.56/22lr set up is the same day he goes and buys one too. I'll bet the farm on it.

The ability to shoot 22LR out of an AR is definitely a big plus...actually, that sounds like a huge plus. :-D I'd probably end up shooting a LOT more if I got the parts that allow it to shoot 22s.

epikeddie
04-14-2011, 1:52 PM
I always find the whole "neutered" debate kind of funny.....my Daniel Defense M4 has no problems with its BB. With my attached BB tool (I attach it to my VCAS sling), I can still change out my magazines with relatively quick speed.

The AR platform just has a ton of options and part of the fun is customizing that rifle to your liking and use.

1lostinspace
04-14-2011, 1:53 PM
Siaga .223. They work good and are very reliable. If you mount a UTG quick release mount and their CQB scope your good to go out to 400+ yards.

dieselpower
04-14-2011, 1:54 PM
The ability to shoot 22LR out of an AR is definitely a big plus...actually, that sounds like a huge plus. :-D I'd probably end up shooting a LOT more if I got the parts that allow it to shoot 22s.

You will. For $150 bucks on the price of the rifle you now have the ability to spend all day shooting at tin cans for $20. then at the end of the day, you clean the junk out of it by firing 3 rounds of .223. and run a bore snake through the barrel and wipe down the outside/inside with a rag.

45DAVID1
04-14-2011, 2:07 PM
ur friend is smokin crack... do me a favor, take a sks, and the rest to the range and bring a cali legal ar... tell me A which one gets more attention and B which one is most accurate?

Forget (A). Only range ninjas care about the attention they get from a rifle. (B) is ok but as long as what you have can hit a target or body mass at a decent distance.Personally I will go with the option that he didn't give which is (C): the gun goes bang when you pull the trigger and you like it.

1forall
04-14-2011, 2:10 PM
Find a local range that rents a variety of rifles or a shop that'll let you handle several before you decide. The bb does suck but it's not that big of a deal. The feel of the AR is what matters to me. Even if I had to breach load each round separately, I would choose the AR over the three you mentioned. Also being able to shoot .22lr from the same rifle is a plus. Just my $0.02.

jdouglas
04-14-2011, 2:22 PM
I actually live pretty close to RifleGear; I think I will head over there when I get a chance and check out some of their guns. I hear they are a really awesome place to do business. (I'll probably end up buying/transfering with them once I decide on what I want.)

mif_slim
04-14-2011, 2:25 PM
Uh, I wouldn't say AR turns head now-a-days. I see them so much I dont care any more and same with a lot of folks I see at the range. They actually ask about my KT SU-16 because it is more a rear sight then an AR.

Jasonaspears
04-14-2011, 2:27 PM
AR all the way

captbilly
04-14-2011, 2:29 PM
I am a long time competitive target shooter and I just can't stand shooting rifles that aren't highly accurate. Of the ones you mentioned only a good AR will be able to shoot Sub MOA (with a nice barrel and good ammo), but that only matters if you can shoot that well, or plan to learn. If you just want to hear a bang when you pull the trigger then they are all great rifles. My Mini-14 was very reliable (not more so then my ARs) but simply could not do better then about 3 MOA. AKs and their clones are also not MOA shooters but many of them are quite reliable.

I have a brother in law who is a big car collector. At one time he had probably nearly a million dollars of old Mopars (some old Hemi Cudas are worth well over $100k). He admitted that they drove terribly and that they were built poorly, and he almost never drove any of them. For him the simple fact that they were rare old Mopars was all that mattered, he didn't care how fast they were or if they could beat something on a track. If you are a gun collector then get whatever seems the most interesting to you. If you are a shooter who likes to hit what you aim at then get a heavy barreled AR with a decent trigger and nice scope, you will be amazed at how well an inexpensive AR will shoot.

Colt-45
04-14-2011, 2:30 PM
Featureless AR15 :D

jdouglas
04-14-2011, 2:33 PM
Featureless AR15 :D

Unfortunately, I don't have any pre-ban 30 round mags to take full advantage of a featureless build. :D

MultiCaliber
04-14-2011, 2:35 PM
+1, BB equipped AR for fun, general awesomeness, etc.

However, if you want a SHTF rifle that is actually legal in CA(I would hope a not legal configuration wouldn't even cross your mind, it didn't mine, not worth the risk) my recommendation goes with a featureless AR or a Ruger mini family rifle. Yes, the BB can be quickly operated with practice, but if you -really- have to reload quick, the suck meter goes way up, br0. My personal SHTF _rifle_ is a Mini-30. No evil features, and preban mags are nice, however, even with only 10-rounders I would rather not mess with the bullet button. Consider the featureless build. It keeps the majority of the AR's benefits, such as multi-caliber capability and is only a little awkward but not much less ergonomic than any standard, non evil featured rife.(mini14/30, saiga, et. all)

jermzzzzzzz
04-14-2011, 2:39 PM
Yeah the AR15 is like a single mom. It does almost everything. Long range, short range, butt stroking, bayonet stabb'in

CA Marine
04-14-2011, 3:11 PM
The ability to shoot 22LR out of an AR is definitely a big plus...actually, that sounds like a huge plus. :-D I'd probably end up shooting a LOT more if I got the parts that allow it to shoot 22s.

Great point! Speaking of that, what exactly do I need to get to make my AR shoot 22lr's? Just a bolt not a BCG? Special type of AR style 22 Mag???

Jasonaspears
04-14-2011, 3:16 PM
Great point! Speaking of that, what exactly do I need to get to make my AR shoot 22lr's? Just a bolt not a BCG? Special type of AR style 22 Mag???

In my opinion, I'd buy a dedicated .22 rifle instead. The costs are about the same if not less expensive to buy something like the S&W 15-22. I've seen them around $400 and a good conversion goes for at least that if not more. Just a thought...

45DAVID1
04-14-2011, 3:21 PM
get one of these
http://www.m1arifles.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/jae-100-g2.png

dieselpower
04-14-2011, 3:25 PM
Great point! Speaking of that, what exactly do I need to get to make my AR shoot 22lr's? Just a bolt not a BCG? Special type of AR style 22 Mag???

yes you need a .22lr BCG and a mag

In my opinion, I'd buy a dedicated .22 rifle instead. The costs are about the same if not less expensive to buy something like the S&W 15-22. I've seen them around $400 and a good conversion goes for at least that if not more. Just a thought...

are you on drugs?

it cost $140 for a BCG and mag...thats all you need.
http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/item/CMMG-.22-Conversion-Kit-with-Magazine-1343 $170
http://www.22lrconversions.com/atch-pg.htm $140
http://www.stagarms.com/product_info.php?cPath=20_35&products_id=361 $220
http://www.armalite.com/ItemForm.aspx?item=22LRCST10&ReturnUrl=Categories.aspx?Category=e12e2236-9dab-4a1a-a015-47b56da84038 $170

http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/stag-arms-ar-15-22lr-conversion-kit/ <---- INFO

CA Marine
04-14-2011, 3:33 PM
In my opinion, I'd buy a dedicated .22 rifle instead. The costs are about the same if not less expensive to buy something like the S&W 15-22. I've seen them around $400 and a good conversion goes for at least that if not more. Just a thought...

Yea that isn't right. I just saw the CMMG conversion BCG for only 129.00 free shipping + a Mag which would be around 20 bucks. That is way cheaper than buying a whole complete 22 AR!

CA Marine
04-14-2011, 3:39 PM
I'm getting one of these 22 BCG's eventhough it would feel like I'm shooting snap 'n pops out of my AR! That's just another reason why AR's are so awesome!

Exile Machine
04-14-2011, 4:12 PM
If you're going for a conversion kit, help support this site by purchasing from a Calguns vendor. We have CMMG kits in stock... And we don't charge you anything to disassemble that 25 round mag either.

https://www.exilemachine.net/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=54&products_id=625

justin15w
04-14-2011, 4:30 PM
Do 22lr conversion kits require you to perform more or different maintenance on the barrel?

I'm assuming wear and tear would be a non-issue, but what about lead deposits?

Will thousands of rounds of 22lr through my AR hurt future reliability?

Thanks!

GlockG20
04-14-2011, 4:30 PM
You still need a bullet button or any kind of magazine locking device if you plan to buy and shoot a semi-auto, centerfire rifle in California. Buying a rifle other than an AR-15 does not make you exempt from the law.

Incorrect... I recently purchased a CA legal Mini-30 with a lower mag release and no bullet button. I have also seen in Big 5, Outdoor World and Markleys the same rifle as well as the Mini-14 and none of them had a bullet button. Looking the serial numbers up showed that several were manufactured in the last 18 months.

The bullet button seems to only apply to "black rifles".

Meant to add I have seen M1A's at Markleys set up without a bullet button as well for sale as CA legal.

dieselpower
04-14-2011, 5:01 PM
Do 22lr conversion kits require you to perform more or different maintenance on the barrel?

I'm assuming wear and tear would be a non-issue, but what about lead deposits?

Will thousands of rounds of 22lr through my AR hurt future reliability?

Thanks!

little to no wear. Its about the same as firing .223. You need to fire .223 to clean out the gas tube. Clean the bore and inside as normal.

Incorrect... I recently purchased a CA legal Mini-30 with a lower mag release and no bullet button. I have also seen in Big 5, Outdoor World and Markleys the same rifle as well as the Mini-14 and none of them had a bullet button. Looking the serial numbers up showed that several were manufactured in the last 18 months.

The bullet button seems to only apply to "black rifles".

Meant to add I have seen M1A's at Markleys set up without a bullet button as well for sale as CA legal.

No. Its a features thing.
Pistol grip = bullet button

thats the easy way to remember it.

look up PC12276.1 in order to have the features listed in (1) you must not have a semi-automatic, or not have a centerfire, or not have a detachable magazine. If you have all three as would a Mini-14...you cant have ANY listed features.

You get to choose
Features vs magazine release button.

if you choose features you are also stuck with a 10rd max capacity in the magazine.

if you choose the magazine release button and NO features you get to use large capacity magazines.

MultiCaliber
04-14-2011, 5:07 PM
Wow. For those of you who haven't yet, I'll go ahead and take this time to recommend that you read this: http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/resources/downloads/file/21-rifleaw.html

ZX-10R
04-14-2011, 5:21 PM
Yeah the BB is incredible but bottom line I live here so I live with it. An AR is fine to get for your needs. It is costlier though then say getting a: AK pattern such as a WASR and then a Ruger 10/22. You would be set. For the price of one gun, you can get 2. One is your SHTF...One allows you to plink (ammo is cheap for an AK pattern) for cheap.

Good luck but then again if it is one gun and you have a budget and it is $1k an AK is not a bad first choice at all for a do it all gun.

13204u
04-14-2011, 5:31 PM
I am going to say this: if you want something that is cheap to buy, cheap to shoot, doesn't need a bullet button, and works, just get a 91/30 nagant and call it a day. I understand it does not fall into your parameters of being a semi auto, but it fulfills every other requirement you have.

stix213
04-14-2011, 5:32 PM
BB isn't as bad as it sounds.

Featureless isn't bad either, there are several good options for the AR (where the hell is Exile Machine when you need him?)

If you want an AR, don't let your buddy stop you. You won't regret it anyway.

dieselpower
04-14-2011, 5:40 PM
I am going to say this: if you want something that is cheap to buy, cheap to shoot, doesn't need a bullet button, and works, just get a 91/30 nagant and call it a day. I understand it does not fall into your parameters of being a semi auto, but it fulfills every other requirement you have.

yeah a M91/30 cost $135 after all is said and done, but thats like buying a bike when you wanted a Mustang. Sure you just want to drive 10 miles to work...Its still not HOW you want to do it.

There is nothing wrong with buying other firearms. The problem is when I want steak, a Big Mac isn't going to fill that void. I will just keep thinking about the T- bone goodness the next day.

Get an AR + a .22lr conversion bolt and don't look back

Colt-45
04-14-2011, 6:08 PM
Unfortunately, I don't have any pre-ban 30 round mags to take full advantage of a featureless build. :D

Still better than a keltec

Sure Shot 45
04-14-2011, 7:02 PM
I hate the BB it sucks IMO, I know alot of you really love it. In real life try running around changing mags with a BB, it sucks, it takes to long, it's a disabled mag release, thats a very critical feature. I still enjoy shooting the AR, try one with a normal mag realese and a standard mag (30 rds), huge difference.

jdouglas
04-14-2011, 7:49 PM
I'd get a featureless AR setup if I had some 30 round magazines...unfortunately I don't have any, so a BB setup would probably make more sense in my case.

The PRK really has some dumb laws. As in, REALLY dumb... :|

SIGSHOOTR
04-14-2011, 7:51 PM
BB isn't a deal breaker IMO. And 10 well placed shots is more than enough.

rojocorsa
04-14-2011, 8:04 PM
If you want an AR to shoot at the range and have fun and plink...just get it with the bullet button. Yeah, having it is ghey, but it isn't the end of the world either. It's not like you're going to have to use it as a fighting gun.

Remember that when it comes to ARs, you really get what you pay for.

762.DEFENSE
04-14-2011, 8:31 PM
For what you want you want a AR15 + Bullet Button + 10 round magazines (NOT 10/30s for the cool factor) + A 22lr conversion BOLT.

You will have a blast firing 5.56, you will have a blast firing CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP 22lr ammo all day long.

If you are going to buy a gun, do not get something you don't want...thats freaking stupid. I want the Camaro, I have the money for the Camaro..I bought the mini-van cuz my mommy said it was more practicle...screw that.

The BB isn't that bad a deal. So what you take 2 seconds to swap a magazine rather than 1 second.

The versatility of going from 5.56 to 22lr, to 6.8, to 7.62x39 to 5.7 then back to 5.56 and .223 = the best firearm money can buy.

Your buddy has no clue what he is missing and the first day you take him out with your AR15 .223/5.56/22lr set up is the same day he goes and buys one too. I'll bet the farm on it.

Agreed.

Viper
04-14-2011, 8:45 PM
The solution to the BB is the Prince50 Wonder-Wrench

Watch the video at:
http://www.valkyrietactical.com/product_info.php?cPath=62&products_id=1514&osCsid=e76ba1e3b37c6fbf55b4dd10594909c7

ARfiend
04-14-2011, 8:45 PM
I will tell you this, when I first started buying my toys I had shot a friends's Mini14. Liked it so I went to a gun show and bought a brand new one. Once I got it I went with another buddy to shoot it and he had an AR. Realized how much better the AR was so I went right out and purchased my first AR and the Mini14 has been sitting in the safe untouched for the last 6 or 7 years. Get the AR, you will not be sad

Fate
04-14-2011, 9:07 PM
The solution to the BB is the Prince50 Wonder-Wrench

Watch the video at:
http://www.valkyrietactical.com/product_info.php?cPath=62&products_id=1514&osCsid=e76ba1e3b37c6fbf55b4dd10594909c7

Noob fail. You can't leave that tool on the rifle while in CA.

ARfiend
04-14-2011, 9:12 PM
yep, that's definitely not a good idea

dieselpower
04-14-2011, 10:06 PM
I don't see the need for any tool the overrides the BB. If I have my .22lr bolt installed and I am going to stay on .22lr for a while, I just swap the BB for a normal magazine release. It takes 2 minutes tops.

If I leave the state, I swap them and then swap them back before re-entry.

Its not that big a deal. I bet I can swap my BB faster then you can load a 30rd magazine (without using clips that is...lol).

goodlookin1
04-15-2011, 7:05 AM
Unfortunately, I don't have any pre-ban 30 round mags to take full advantage of a featureless build. :D

Fortunately for you, you dont need them!

You can have a featureless rifle and use your 10 round mags without a bullet button. Or, you could build up a featureless with the anticipation that Gene will be able to get you 30+ round magazines LEGALLY in the near future. Featureless builds will become MUCH more popular when this happens (and it's not a matter of "if", but "when", apparently).

dieselpower
04-15-2011, 8:42 AM
Fortunately for you, you don't need them!

You can have a featureless rifle and use your 10 round mags without a bullet button. Or, you could build up a featureless with the anticipation that Gene will be able to get you 30+ round magazines LEGALLY in the near future. Featureless builds will become MUCH more popular when this happens (and it's not a matter of "if", but "when", apparently).

We know Gene is working a way to sell large capacity magazines to the masses. That is still no reason to go featureless right now. You guys are talking like you can not swap back and forth freely....

The BB is the cheapest way to get the rifle now. After you have it, then you can go to the trouble and added expense of a featureless. The only thing to take into account is the FLASH HIDER. If you feel you may want to go featureless make sure you do any one of these...
1) buy a muzzle brake and can swap it out yourself,
2) buy an extra barrel with brake and swap the barrel out,
3) or buy the original upper that has a brake and NOT a flash hider.

MXRider
04-15-2011, 9:17 AM
I hate the BB it sucks IMO, I know alot of you really love it. In real life try running around changing mags with a BB, it sucks, it takes to long, it's a disabled mag release, thats a very critical feature. I still enjoy shooting the AR, try one with a normal mag realese and a standard mag (30 rds), huge difference.

Thats why I sold my LMT when I moved from VA to CA. I am gonna replace it with an M1A. IMO it's the best fully functioning rifle available in CA. BB, funky grips and featureless builds don't interest me in the least bit.

morfeeis
04-15-2011, 10:35 AM
We know Gene is working a way to sell large capacity magazines to the masses. That is still no reason to go featureless right now. You guys are talking like you can not swap back and forth freely....

The BB is the cheapest way to get the rifle now. After you have it, then you can go to the trouble and added expense of a featureless. The only thing to take into account is the FLASH HIDER. If you feel you may want to go featureless make sure you do any one of these...
1) buy a muzzle brake and can swap it out yourself,
2) buy an extra barrel with brake and swap the barrel out,
3) or buy the original upper that has a brake and NOT a flash hider.
Added expense? you can get a YHM comp for like $30 and it's something most AR's should have featureless or not, far more effective then a stock A2 birdcage. i have a few pre bans and rebuild kits and love that my family has been into firearms long enough for me to have been able to, BUT had i not had prebans going featureless would still be the best option IMHO.

Plus the hammer head grip is like $25 and $10 of that is donated to CALGUNS so why not try it you just might like it.....

dieselpower
04-15-2011, 10:51 AM
Added expense? you can get a YHM comp for like $30 and it's something most AR's should have featureless or not, far more effective then a stock A2 birdcage. i have a few pre bans and rebuild kits and love that my family has been into firearms long enough for me to have been able to, BUT had i not had prebans going featureless would still be the best option IMHO.

Plus the hammer head grip is like $25 and $10 of that is donated to CALGUNS so why not try it you just might like it.....

you think I don't have a featureless option...lol everyone should.

Heres the deal... 99% of all AR15s sold in CA are maglocks. Its an added expense to convert it to featureless. Its either $25ish for the grip and $60 for the stock, or at a bare minimum its $25 for the grip and doing something to your stock. Thats only if you dont have a Flash hider. And on top of that a 14.5" with a Flash hider is a total PITA.

The thing you must look for and HUNT for is a brake and not a Flash Hider. The fact is many many AR15s sold in CA right now and uppers sitting under glass right now have FLASH HIDERS on them. Its just a fact. You can hunt around or you can order.

Unless you are building from stripped, 99% of all lowers are mag locked. There are some stores selling featureless OLLs...once again its a hunt and a drive. I know many stores that will not carry them.

So unless you are building yourself, a featureless build is an ADDED expense and something you must plan for before buying your AR15 in CA.

Viper
04-15-2011, 10:27 PM
Noob fail. You can't leave that tool on the rifle while in CA.

No ****. Its for home defense. Or if you shoot at a police range like I do, no one cares if you leave it on.

dieselpower
04-15-2011, 10:42 PM
No ****. Its for home defense. Or if you shoot at a police range like I do, no one cares if you leave it on.

what? defending yourself doesn't give you the right to manufacture an AW... at the range any LEO can arrest you on the spot if they choose to. So far no one has. I can guarantee you someday one of them is going to care...then you are a CONVICTED FELON who can NEVER own firearms AGAIN...FOR the rest of your life. No Judge in any State is going to restore your Rights, when the crime was PC12280.

you are gambling with your life over a freaking button...

SR-71 BLACKBIRD
04-15-2011, 10:49 PM
I would think that as long as you do not buy the following you should be ok.

Copied from Assault Weapons
Identification Guide
as listed or described in Penal Code Sections 12276, 12276.1, and 12276.5

American Spirit
ASA Model
Armalite
AR 10 (all)
M15 (all)
Golden Eagle
Bushmaster
XM15 (all)
Colt
*AR-15 (all)
Sporter (all)
Match Target (all)
Law Enforcement (6920)
Dalphon
B.F.D.
DPMS
Panther (all)
Eagle Arms
M15 (all)
EA-15 A2 H-BAR
EA-15 E1
Frankford Arsenal
AR-15 (all)
Hesse Arms
HAR 15A2 (all)
Knights
SR-15 (all)
SR-25 (all)
RAS (all)
Les Baer
Ultimate AR (all)
Olympic Arms
AR-15
Car-97
PCR (all)
Ordnance, Inc.
AR-15
Palmetto
SGA (all)
Professional Ordnance, Inc.
Carbon 15 Rifle
Carbon 15 Pistol
PWA
All Models
Rock River Arms, Inc.
Standard A-2
Car A2
Standard A-4 Flattop
Car A4 Flattop
NM A2 - DCM Legal
LE Tactical Carbine
Wilson Combat
AR-15
* These weapons were required to be registered on or before March 31, 1992.

NorCalK9.com
04-16-2011, 9:56 AM
Just get yourself a nice ak and a decent AR and you're set.

m98
04-16-2011, 1:49 PM
No ****. Its for home defense. Or if you shoot at a police range like I do, no one cares if you leave it on.



NOOB FAIL 2X. This noob really needs teaching on kommi BS laws. Even IF noob was leo and the ar was oll, its Still illegal to have such setup of bb+wonder wrench. I wonder if this noob was the same idiot who posted on pootube about using the red button to drop mags in his bathroom in the state of kommi

jdouglas
04-16-2011, 3:50 PM
Back on topic. :-D

I stopped by RifleGear in Fountain Valley today and got to check out some of their guns. The AK-47 was OK, but a little awkward as the stock and pistol grip are really small. It does of course have that classic AK look though. :) The Saigas are nice (no bullet button), and are definitely more ergonomic than the AK. The AR-15 felt the best out of the three though...I really liked it.

Obviously my opinions are based on the overall look and feel of the guns themselves (as opposed to how they shoot...too bad RifleGear doesn't have a shooting range out back, lol), but I think I like the AR-15 the best out of the three.

I really should look for a good shooting range and try some guns out, otherwise I might end up buying a Stag Arms AR-15 without ever having fired one! :-D (Unless of course there aren't any ranges nearby that have "evil black rifles" for rent...)

Code7inOaktown
04-16-2011, 5:16 PM
Who sells $150 .22 conversions?

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

ElvenSoul
04-16-2011, 5:55 PM
VZ 58 is my go to.

Viper
04-16-2011, 9:16 PM
NOOB FAIL 2X. This noob really needs teaching on kommi BS laws. Even IF noob was leo and the ar was oll, its Still illegal to have such setup of bb+wonder wrench. I wonder if this noob was the same idiot who posted on pootube about using the red button to drop mags in his bathroom in the state of kommi

Obviously you did not watch the video. It clearly states it is illegal in CA. I never said otherwise. The only time I use it is when I'm at the police range or when its next to my bed at night. Just remove it before the police show up. :D

Don't be so quick to call people a noob.

Viper
04-16-2011, 9:19 PM
:eek: That's the stupidest thing I've heard all day. Please NO ONE take this advice. Don't commit a felony and go to a police range for all the police to see.

No one can just go to a police range unless they are with a police officer. My father is a retired police officer. That is the only reason I use the wonder-wrench there. I am not encouraging people to do the same.

Bigtwin
04-16-2011, 9:38 PM
Just remove it before the police show up. :D

Don't be so quick to call people a noob.

While I think you may be being funny, this statement alone is not very well recieved here!

That statement alone suggests you are doing things illegaly! NOOB!

Viper
04-16-2011, 9:42 PM
While I think you may be being funny, this statement alone is not very well recieved here!

That statement alone suggests you are doing things illegaly! NOOB!

The smiley face should be a clue..... NOOB

famas619
04-16-2011, 9:47 PM
Get it if you want. I use mine for plinking mostly and have fun with it.

Bigtwin
04-16-2011, 9:49 PM
The smiley face should be a clue..... NOOB

And it is, but not all folks are as up to date as others, they may take it differently and not as intended. I just like to think we all on Calguns are preaching to new folks and a post like yours may get carried away. with a statement like "The only time I use it is when I'm at the police range or when its next to my bed at night" says you are willing to break the law "at night", NOOB!

tacticalcity
04-16-2011, 9:52 PM
People who have never owned an AR with a bullet button on it think it is big deal. Those who have know it isn't a big deal at all.

That is like an Italian saying American's shouldn't buy a Ferrari because our versions have SMOG control features.

Or more precisely...

Imagine your car had a little knob on the dash that made it so the car could only go 80mph. Now, all you had to do was twist that knob four or five times and the car could go up to 200mph, but if you did so you would be breaking the State law. So you don't turn it off that speed reducer unless you are outside the State.

That is the same concept behind the bullet button. The rifle functions exactly the same, only the magazine changes are a touch trickier. They can still be done, they just require a tad more effort. A few twists on the bullet button and you have a normal rifle. But if you do that you are breaking the law, so you don't. You spend the slightly extra effort needed for the magazine changes. But you still own an AR15, the finest CQB rifle platform ever made...just with a speed reducer slightly slowing down your magazine changes.

Unless WWIII breaks out tomorrow, the presence of the bullet button is not going to bother you. And if WWIII does break out tomorrow, I am betting you'll have the five seconds needed to twist it a few times so that your rifle functions normally. You won't be worried about State law at that point, but you will be glad you own an AR15. Of course I don't think that likely but you get my point.

tacticalcity
04-16-2011, 9:59 PM
Oh, and when did they pass a new law making the wonder wrench illegal? Sounds like somebody's personal opinion being spewed out as law to me. Unless they are mechanically connected together that sounds like a sperate tool to me. Until a judge rules on it...nobody can say with 100% certainty that it isn't. Since the beginning of the invention of maglocks to comply with SB23 people have been spewing out opinion after opinion that have all turned out to be FUD. This sounds like more of that. So I would like somebody to show me which new law or court ruling came out saying that leaving a mechanically seperated tool in the hole of bullet button is a crime? It doesn't exist because no judge would go for it.

Bigtwin
04-16-2011, 9:59 PM
People who have never owned an AR with a bullet button on it think it is big deal. Those who have know it isn't a big deal at all.

That is like an Italian saying American's shouldn't buy a Ferrari because our versions have SMOG control features.

Or more precisely...

Imagine your car had a little knob on the dash that made it so the car could only go 80mph. Now, all you had to do was twist that knob four or five times and the car could go up to 200mph, but if you did so you would be breaking the State law. So you don't turn it off that speed reducer unless you are outside the State.

That is the same concept behind the bullet button. The rifle functions exactly the same, only the magazine changes are a touch trickier. They can still be done, they just require a tad more effort. A few twists on the bullet button and you have a normal rifle. But if you do that you are breaking the law, so you don't. You spend the slightly extra effort needed for the magazine changes. But you still own an AR15, the finest CQB rifle platform ever made...just with a speed reducer slightly slowing down your magazine changes.

Unless WWIII breaks out tomorrow, the presence of the bullet button is not going to bother you. And if WWIII does break out tomorrow, I am betting you'll have the five seconds needed to twist it a few times so that your rifle functions normally. You won't be worried about State law at that point, but you will be glad you own an AR15. Of course I don't think that likely but you get my point.

THANK YOU!That is what I was geting at, Not worth the trouble to so it any other way!


But I may have been having a little fun with Viper in the process! lol

Viper
04-16-2011, 10:07 PM
People who have never owned an AR with a bullet button on it think it is big deal. Those who have know it isn't a big deal at all.

That is like an Italian saying American's shouldn't buy a Ferrari because our versions have SMOG control features.

Or more precisely...

Imagine your car had a little knob on the dash that made it so the car could only go 80mph. Now, all you had to do was twist that knob four or five times and the car could go up to 200mph, but if you did so you would be breaking the State law. So you don't turn it off that speed reducer unless you are outside the State.

That is the same concept behind the bullet button. The rifle functions exactly the same, only the magazine changes are a touch trickier. They can still be done, they just require a tad more effort. A few twists on the bullet button and you have a normal rifle. But if you do that you are breaking the law, so you don't. You spend the slightly extra effort needed for the magazine changes. But you still own an AR15, the finest CQB rifle platform ever made...just with a speed reducer slightly slowing down your magazine changes.

Unless WWIII breaks out tomorrow, the presence of the bullet button is not going to bother you. And if WWIII does break out tomorrow, I am betting you'll have the five seconds needed to twist it a few times so that your rifle functions normally. You won't be worried about State law at that point, but you will be glad you own an AR15. Of course I don't think that likely but you get my point.


I agree with everything you just said. It takes less than 5 seconds to install or take off.

I do sleep with mine installed and next to my bed at night. I'm not saying others should do it. But I'd rather be ready for when the SHTF and be alive to explain it to the judge. I really do hope it would take less than 10 rounds to protect my family, but I keep several loaded mags next to me.

Here is the best info on the mag locks so everyone is clear:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=174710

Viper
04-16-2011, 10:08 PM
THANK YOU!That is what I was geting at, Not worth the trouble to so it any other way!


But I may have been having a little fun with Viper in the process! lol

Its all good and fun. Just need to make sure the correct info gets out so no one gets arrested. :)

NYY
04-17-2011, 1:26 AM
let him look through this for a bit.... http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=232935

hefedehefe
04-17-2011, 2:37 AM
Saiga .308

23 Blast
04-17-2011, 6:31 AM
So lemme get this straight - to shoot .22LR put of your .223/5.56 AR, all you need is a different BCG? I thought you needed a whole dedicated, complete upper to do that. Isn't the diameter of .22LR slightly smaller than .223? (which is actually .224?) Just curious - I would love to be able to plink with my AR. I've only been to the range with it once, and spent an incredibly frustrating day trying to sight it in.