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View Full Version : To FAL or not to FAL


rocketeng
04-13-2011, 10:52 PM
I want a new FN FAL, any suggestions as to a good quality manufacturer.

Dhena81
04-13-2011, 10:59 PM
DS Arms get a sand cut carrier otherwise the FAL is unreliable when dirty from what I heard Larry Vickers and the Israelis say I don't know much about the FAL except an M1A is a better battle rifle :D

tubdog89
04-14-2011, 12:27 AM
I hav an FAL from Entreprise and it shoots well but agree go with DS Arms. I had problems with the entreprise at first and i do hav to clean and keep it well lubed. Also mags are a pain to get for it and most the time poor quailty.

jcaoloveshine
04-14-2011, 12:33 AM
DSA makes a great FAL, but expect to pay like 1500 for one. Eh, for that money I'd rather get an M1A Loaded, far superior sights and 1-2MOA accuracy.

oaklander
04-14-2011, 12:44 AM
LOL - if the OP spends over $1000 on a new rifle, he's probably not going to drag it through the sand!!!

:D

My FAL was very reliable, and I do prefer rifles with PGs, since they are easier to use for some reason.

FALs are not extremely hard to build - easier than AKs - but the trick is to get a good receiver. I built mine on a DSA. I did have to "machine" the barrel a little bit where it seats up against the reciever (this is crucial to timing the barrel). And I ended up using a file to "adjust" the locking shoulder to get get the right head spacing. . .

Here's some FAL resources.

http://www.gunthings.com/faltools.htm

I miss my FAL - and I wish more people would get into them - they are really elegant rifles, both in design and appearance. . .

DS Arms get a sand cut carrier otherwise the FAL is unreliable when dirty from what I heard Larry Vickers and the Israelis say I don't know much about the FAL except an M1A is a better battle rifle :D

CaliB&R
04-14-2011, 1:39 AM
I miss my FAL - and I wish more people would get into them - they are really elegant rifles, both in design and appearance. . .

I love my FAL, even if i need to take out a loan to shoot the thing. :D

Mine is built buy Entreprise, and is accurate when I do my part. Im thinking of building a second FAL to make into a DMR.

To the OP, there a few options out there, but Entreprise and DSA are gonna be your best choices IMHO.

GM4spd
04-14-2011, 4:30 AM
FAL is a great rifle. Everyone needs one. The looks and ergos are what
started the black rifle disease. Pete

http://www.fototime.com/772E190359E627B/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/0A1D2D7C00D2DE4/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/7E325B9352F8FB2/standard.jpg

rareair
04-14-2011, 6:23 AM
Go for it. I too have an Entreprise Arms' STG58. No problems with it so far, but I've shot less than 200 rounds through it

ZX-10R
04-14-2011, 7:24 AM
I have wanted one and was considering DSA...However, there are a few other guns ahead of it on the list. It is one of the last guns I get that is for sure...Then back to motorcycles. I have shot a DSA FAL up in WA that belonged to friend up in WA. Awesome rifle. He never had issues with it and at 100 yrds it was accurate as I could make it.

Never handled an enterprise one...However on member said it right. If he is going to be paying $$$ for it he is not slugging that thing through dirt or such. On that note though, I have taken my PSL through the sticks of Oregon and it had no issue with dampness.

rbbbass
04-14-2011, 8:31 AM
I also have a FAL from Entreprise. Had some issues with it at first with the gas adjustment, but fires very well now.

sdbobbyt
04-14-2011, 8:40 AM
I say go for it! I had a DSArms FAL before I knew about building AR's and it is a really nice shooting rifle. I don't shoot it as much only because of the price of ammo.

Otherwise, a lot of people have AR's, not many people here show up to the range with a FAL. Whenever I pull mine out, people are all WHAT'S THAT!?? It has that coolness factor. When I let other people shoot it, I always get that "HOLY $H17" look. It is really fun to shoot.

rromeo
04-14-2011, 9:15 AM
LOL - if the OP spends over $1000 on a new rifle, he's probably not going to drag it through the sand!!!

:D

My FAL was very reliable, and I do prefer rifles with PGs, since they are easier to use for some reason.

FALs are not extremely hard to build - easier than AKs - but the trick is to get a good receiver. I built mine on a DSA. I did have to "machine" the barrel a little bit where it seats up against the reciever (this is crucial to timing the barrel). And I ended up using a file to "adjust" the locking shoulder to get get the right head spacing. . .

Here's some FAL resources.

http://www.gunthings.com/faltools.htm

I miss my FAL - and I wish more people would get into them - they are really elegant rifles, both in design and appearance. . .

Where would you suggest for the parts kit?

bollero
04-14-2011, 3:10 PM
Get a Imbel receiver on Gunbroker around 400 and get the parts kit of gunbroker too the seller is parts and more .
I have build 2 one off a DSA receiver with a Imbel parts kit and the other Imbel receiver on a STG 58 kit.. The FaL's are the best 2 rifles ever made..

folcker
04-14-2011, 5:13 PM
Definately Dsarms. Mine is built off an enterprise reciever and love it. Either one is good but dsa has me wanting to build another.

hammerhands32
04-14-2011, 5:45 PM
The real question is how do you like yours?
My DS arms pig rifle with FSC FAL muzzle brake, DS arms railed top cover, P.E.P.R. scope mount with a 3-9x50 redfield scope.
http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n422/hammerhands32/2011-04-14_18-40-50_801.jpg

Saw pistol grip and X series buttstock should be here tomorrow

Ls1FALimpala
04-14-2011, 5:47 PM
I wouldn't trade my FAL for anything else

evidens83
04-14-2011, 6:15 PM
FAL!

gatdammit
04-14-2011, 6:45 PM
Love mine... I'm just not as good with it as I should be... I got an STG58 kit built on DSArms receiver.

rojocorsa
04-14-2011, 6:46 PM
DS Arms is the way to go these days...

C.G.
04-14-2011, 6:56 PM
I have a DSA para (which I would take over an M1A anyday). Great quality, but not cheap in price. Had one built by Rich at CGW with an Austrian kit on an Imbel, Rich builds well and was very reasonable (don't know about now). Also had a couple of Entreprise builds, cosmetically they were not on par with Rich or DSA, but one shot very well and I am sorry I sold it.

Ls1FALimpala
04-14-2011, 7:08 PM
. I don't shoot it as much only because of the price of ammo.

Otherwise, a lot of people have AR's, not many people here show up to the range with a FAL. Whenever I pull mine out, people are all WHAT'S THAT!?? It has that coolness factor. When I let other people shoot it, I always get that "HOLY $H17" look. It is really fun to shoot.

I 100% agree on this since I can't shoot steel case ammo or it will jam a lot I have to buy the good stuff and its expensive. And yes when I pull it out at the range people notice it and gets a lot of thumbs up...

acaligunner
04-14-2011, 7:47 PM
I would like to order a CA legal DSA FN/FAL, but is there any other configuration other than the 'top loading' model?

Also who sells FN metric 20 round magazine rebuilt kits, for my SAR-4800, that will ship to CA.

acaligunner

C.G.
04-14-2011, 8:38 PM
I would like to order a CA legal DSA FN/FAL, but is there any other configuration other than the 'top loading' model?

Also who sells FN metric 20 round magazine rebuilt kits, for my SAR-4800, that will ship to CA.

acaligunner

I had the rifle sent to Rich at CGW, who worked on the stock trigger (one of those things that are not that good on a FAL) and installed a set screw and then sent it on to my FFL. I forgot what he charged but it was not much and the trigger is a lot better than stock.

P.S. I haven't done it but I've read here that it is not that difficult to remove the DSA mag weld and then add your own device.

smle-man
04-14-2011, 8:59 PM
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff237/smle-man/PC250003.jpg
DSA Tactical Carbine

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff237/smle-man/PC250005.jpg
Entreprise FAL standard model

Should you FAL? only if you already have one of these!

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff237/smle-man/m14s001.jpg

blackfalcon
04-14-2011, 10:21 PM
I also heard good things of Coonan receivers (www.coonaninc.com). Although, I do have an Entreprise and like it. Entreprise is local to me so going there in person is a plus.

Sicarius
04-15-2011, 6:03 PM
DS Arms get a sand cut carrier otherwise the FAL is unreliable when dirty from what I heard Larry Vickers and the Israelis say I don't know much about the FAL except an M1A is a better battle rifle :D

Um suuuure... Sand cut carrier is nice but not a must. The 100 yard line won't make it unreliable. I doubt the M1a would fair much if any better in the sands of Isreal for comparison.

DSA and Imbel receivers are the way to go if you are going to build one. Enterprise seems to be putting out a FAL that is a good value. I would still rather build one myself which isn't all too difficult. The tooling will run you about 200 with a barrel vice if I remember correctly. Definately was a fun and rewarding build. Look for STG kits because those seem to be the best milsurp kits out there(made by steyr so go figure)
Kevin

oaklander
04-15-2011, 6:17 PM
Dang you guys!!!!!

I am now going to HAVE to get another FAL.

Thanks a lot!!!!!!!

:eek:

DisgruntledReaper
04-15-2011, 6:19 PM
My go to gun is one of my FAL's, they have never jammed on me, feed anything within OAL specs,dont care about brass/steel cases, laquered bullets,country of origin,etc.....

Easier to replace parts if needed, mags cheaper ,can put a folder on it, ....better than a M1A in MY opinion.....but yea maybe better sights but mags more money,parts are not as easily replaced(like I have ever seen a FAL part aside from a spring actually worn out) and they dont need anywhere the apparent amount of cleaning a M1a needs....

To each his own.......

oaklander
04-15-2011, 6:21 PM
They are also the most aesthetically pleasing and elegant battle rifle, ever. OK - now over to FALfiles to look at some FAL porn.

Dang it!

My go to gun is one of my FAL's, they have never jammed on me, feed anything within OAL specs,dont care about brass/steel cases, laquered bullets,country of origin,etc.....

Easier to replace parts if needed, mags cheaper ,can put a folder on it, ....better than a M1A in MY opinion.....but yea maybe better sights but mags more money,parts are not as easily replaced(like I have ever seen a FAL part aside from a spring actually worn out) and they dont need anywhere the apparent amount of cleaning a M1a needs....

To each his own.......

DisgruntledReaper
04-15-2011, 6:24 PM
They are also the most aesthetically pleasing and elegant battle rifle, ever. OK - now over to FALfiles to look at some FAL porn.

Dang it!

Get-er done Oaky! I think I saw a couple on the MP last night!!!
Wish I did not have to sell 4 of mine in the last year.......sucks bigtime!!
I still have an Indian 1A kit to build at least....just need money for the receiver...and a good receiver at a good price....sigh...need another build up done...

GM4spd
04-15-2011, 6:27 PM
The FAL is light years ahead of your M1A/Garand types as far as takedown
and maintenace! Looks a hell of lot better,also.Pete

http://www.fototime.com/712D885985637C4/standard.jpg

rareair
04-15-2011, 6:40 PM
Here's my Entreprise Arms STG58 Carbine
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s146/RareAirResto/Armory/DSC_2129Large.jpg
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s146/RareAirResto/Armory/DSC_2130Large.jpg

eville
04-15-2011, 7:37 PM
Damn I was thinking scar17 but now maybe a FAL.

jackandblood
04-15-2011, 8:10 PM
Dennis Hopper liked them and I like them.

http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/2460/dennishopper.gif

Was about to say, Geico Cavemen Controversy.

George of Top Shot would likely call it FAiL sauce... So ya get one.

drewman
04-15-2011, 9:03 PM
DS Arms is the way to go these days...

+1

I love my DSA all the way...:43:

rareair
04-15-2011, 9:46 PM
George of Top Shot would likely call it FAiL sauce... So ya get one.

George says a lot of things, but none of it really matters :rolleyes:

straykiller
04-15-2011, 9:58 PM
i love my enterprise fal, also they have the best customer service around

nic
04-15-2011, 10:08 PM
Blasphemy. How can you second guess the contributions George has made to humanity and the English language, like "failboat" and "eleventy"?

OP: FALs are very nice. My only real gripe with them is that the triggers tend to be pretty atrocious, particularly compared to an M1A/M14. I had an STG58 built on a DSA receiver and loved it, but couldn't afford to shoot .308 anymore. Once funds ease up a bit, I will probably pick another one up, DSA most certainly.

George says a lot of things, but none of it really matters :rolleyes:

luckystrike
04-16-2011, 12:03 AM
id say DSA only on the basis of the guys from enterprice mad dogging me at the gunshow.

BHPFan
04-16-2011, 8:15 AM
FAL to me as I am most familiar with it.

That being said, I feel any of the other .308 Battle Rifles will do the job:

Saiga .308 - Reliable AK system and the best priced. Quite possibly, very sturdy due to being an AK.

G3 series - Quite possibly one of the sturdiest battle rifles. Very accurate if getting the models with the TC barrel and very reliable if using the G3 spec fluted barrel. Here's my take on them:
a) HK - the creme of the crop, but models like the HK91 (maybe the HK41) are restricted by name. Expect to pay top $$$$$$ for a real German made model (HK911 or SR9 or PSG1).
b) PTR91 - Built on blueprints of the Portuguese G3s. Possibly the best American made G3 series, some even say better than the original HK, but that's arguable. Except for the serial number with prefix "A" and the GI model, they use Thompson Contender barrels.
c) Other clones (Vector, etc...) - Don't know much about them. I read some are great and some are crap.

AR - Two patterns: Armalite and DPMS. I choose DPMS pattern only because there are more parts and accessories available. Arguably, may be the most accurate semiauto battle rifle mainly in DI gas system (LMT MWS, enough said) though there are some who'll argue that their GP system LWRC REPRs and SIG 716s are ultra-accurate. Building one may be the most economical option.

M14/M1A - The Springer M1Ais the most available, but it's made on a cast receiver and most recent production don't use GI spec parts like the earlier ones. Still, SA has a great Customer Service second to none. LRB M14s is what I like the most because of its forged receiver, but it is pricy and maybe the most expensive of the bunch. The Chinese (Polytech and Norinco) made rifles are good values and have a forged receiver, but if you replace its other parts for GI, it may cost you as much as getting a new Springer. I don't know about Fulton, but read good things about them. M14/M1A rifles are derived from the M1 Garand rifle, a proven system. Despite not being the standard issue rifle today, it is still being used as a sniper or DMR rifle; I even heard some military units preferring to use them over the M4/M16.

SCAR17 - It looks to be possibly the best battle rifle, but I have two things against it: Parts are only available from FN, especially its expensive mags and No proven long track record (like G3, FAL, M1A) though the same can be said of Saiga and most .308 ARs.

FAL - I personally prefer forged receiver over cast. Since it's hard to get a real "FN", then let's talk about other brands available:
a) Entreprise - possibly the best value if they work, but their receivers are cast, not FN licensed and reversed engineered. They seem to be hit or miss, but I owned one and never had an issue. However, I read from others that had issues with them. Although I never had issues dealing with their Customer Service, I read others have issues dealing with them.
b) Coonan Arms - Cast receivers. I have not read about any problems with them and gunplumber (Mark T Graham) recommends them when I talked to him. Once again, they are not FN licensed and I don't know if they're reversed engineered.
c) DSA - Quite possibly the best American made FALs. Forged receiver from what I gather. They are not FN licensed, but they are built from Steyr stg-58 blueprints. I currently one of their stripped receivers and planning on building one.
d) Imbel receiver - My favorite as they are really forged, which is what I like in a heavy caliber plus they are real "FN" as they are licensed by FN. I currently own an Israeli Heavy Barrel built on one.

Pryde
04-16-2011, 8:28 AM
DS Arms get a sand cut carrier otherwise the FAL is unreliable when dirty from what I heard Larry Vickers and the Israelis say I don't know much about the FAL except an M1A is a better battle rifle :D

You are smoking crack, the Israelis never issued the M14 and Vickers plainly states that he prefers the FAL over the M14 and G3.

http://vickerstactical.com/tactical-tips/battle-rifles/

smle-man
04-16-2011, 7:46 PM
You are smoking crack, the Israelis never issued the M14 and Vickers plainly states that he prefers the FAL over the M14 and G3.

http://vickerstactical.com/tactical-tips/battle-rifles/

Actually the Israelis did use M14s as squad marksman rifles and for civil defense. Many were re-imported to the U.S. as parts kits in the 90s.

bluesmoke9
04-16-2011, 9:43 PM
Before you buy please take a look at my "Beware Entreprise Arms" thread in this same forum.

tiger222
04-16-2011, 10:16 PM
FAL is a great gun with a great heritage. However the AR10 really is a better rifle all around, though only 15 years old in current form. The FAL is history and legend, the AR10 a commerical re-do. if you feel called, get one. But I got to tell you an AR10 is a very nice gun.

C.G.
04-17-2011, 1:35 AM
FAL is a great gun with a great heritage. However the AR10 really is a better rifle all around, though only 15 years old in current form. The FAL is history and legend, the AR10 a commerical re-do. if you feel called, get one. But I got to tell you an AR10 is a very nice gun.

That is why I have both.:)

BHPFan
04-17-2011, 6:37 AM
FAL is a great gun with a great heritage. However the AR10 really is a better rifle all around, though only 15 years old in current form.

Nothing against the AR10 as I love ARs (and they would be my second choice), but what makes them better rifles than FAL other than the advantages of accuracy, lighter weight and modularity?

gemini1
04-17-2011, 5:16 PM
[QUOTE=rareair;6210749]Here's my Entreprise Arms STG58 Carbine
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s146/RareAirResto/Armory/DSC_2129Large.jpg

That looks nice. How much does it weight?

It also seemed like most of the FAL rifles have pencil type barrels, is there an AR 308 with similar lightweight barrels? and which is cheaper to build?

Maggotman
04-17-2011, 5:44 PM
Checkout SARCO inc...THey have new Argentine FAL kits..Add your Dan Coonan Argentine cut receiver (also available on Sarco and made for these military grade kits) or buy the Imbel or DSA type metric receiver and have Moses at CMP do the Argie cutt and you have an all new, military grade FAL. Yes this is a pain in the butt however the kits make a very nice gun:)

or get a good Steyr STG58 kit. About $650 on the FALfiles forum and then mate to a DSA receiver, Imbel, or Coonan.

or go with an Imbel kit and your choice of above receviers.

Just whatever you do..

Stay away from Enterprise FAL's and be wary of the new DSA rifles as their US produced parts just are not the same quality. Example: Non-chrome lined barrels

A good FAL (READ: MILITARY GRADE) can be had for around $1000.

Check FALfiles forum and it will set you straight.

MM

Richard Erichsen
04-21-2011, 5:22 PM
Go for it. I too have an Entreprise Arms' STG58. No problems with it so far, but I've shot less than 200 rounds through it


Rareair,

I'd be happy to break that rifle in for you with a few hundred more. I want to test some muzzle brakes and OTM ammo I just bought in preparation for my own build to be completed. ;)

-R

Richard Erichsen
04-21-2011, 6:34 PM
I want a new FN FAL, any suggestions as to a good quality manufacturer.

I'm just concluding my research, but am leaning heavily towards a DSA type 1 receiver on a G1 parts kit. This is probably the best time to buy a FAL, prices will probably not get any better than they are now. Back in the 80s I remember wanting one pretty badly, but that time period coincided with when they were well over $1900 a copy.

Complete rifles are one thing, they seem to be averaging $1500, about where a good AR15 is and bottom range for an AR10s. A build on the other hand could probably go for less than that, depending on how much work you do yourself and what your goals are. It's not a tack driver, but 2" at 100 yards is more than adequate for the purpose and better than most soldiers or civilians can actually shoot under stress.

I calculated in some of the gunsmith time and worked out a budget of around $225.00 including timing the barrel, headspacing and lapping of any metal to metal interfaces, trigger job to drop the pull to 4.5 to 5 lbs (about $39.00 by itself, but may not be necessary if the Falcon Arms spring kit does what it's billed to do) replacing the rear sight with a better aperture and test firing. Since the hammer/sear/trigger springs will be "tweaked" during the trigger job, I'm replacing the whole set with parts from Falcon Arms (which also includes my US parts for 922r compliance) and adding a US made DSA ambidextrous safety selector, which the smith needs to finish the trigger job anyway. Work I plan to finish myself is basically "everything else" (which isn't much at all). $225 and I'll improve safety, avoid potential misfires and malfunctions at the range, and get a better handling and likely more accurate FAL than what the factory handed over to the German Army in 1956.

So far, I've spent the following in my preparations:

Apex sourced G1 parts kit = $250
Apex sourced StG58 hammer forged barrel = $140
Falcon Arms US made hammer, sear, trigger and pull reduction kit = $115
DSA ambidextrous safety = $79 (the second most expensive individual part)
DSA picatinny dust cover/scopemount = $82.00 (the most expensive individual part)
"Holland" style sights - freebee given by friend
Solar Tactical grip strap - another freebee from friend
Belgian "short" muzzle brake - already owned along with some 20 round mags I received in trade years ago
$225 in gunsmithing services per above

Soon to buy the DSA type 1 receiver at discount from membership on the FALfiles. ;)

I'm at $1300 for the above so far. I will likely replace the buttstock with an adjustable stock with a cheekrest and a freefloated front aluminum handguard ($80 and $80 respectively) and call it complete. The difference is my sub $1500 FAL will include some custom work and handling improvements you aren't likely to find in a production rifle. They have to have some margin in there somewhere to keep the lights on and I'd bet with wholesale pricing that's it is in the $650 to $850 range per rifle for parts and about $120 for labor for a bog stock build. You can look at the pricing most builders publish for doing customer builds from parts kits for guidance on what it takes to slap a FAL together.

I'm amazed at how inexpensive quality surplus parts are for the FAL compared to M1A/M14, the only other battle rifle in the same range is the G3, which I personally like much less. I couldn't even get into a complete GI parts kit for the M1A/M14 for much less than $1200 and a quality receiver cost almost as much! After bedding the action, or buying aluminum bedding block equipped stocks like the McMillan or the JAE 100 G2/G3, you'd spend another hefty sum, out of budget for me, but then so is the parts kit for that matter which costs about as much as most of the parts I want on my FAL rifle!

Little things add up: M1A mags cost at least twice what FAL mags cost. A trigger job to get to the 3.5 to 4 lb pull without creep/overtravel is a $150 proposition, more if the parts are non GI ($200 plus if parts need to be replaced). Yes, the sights on the M1A are better, but Holland style FAL sights can be had at auction sights for around $50.

Sure, you can buy a M1A from Springfield or the the cheaper Chinese clones from Polytech or Norinco for around $1400 or less, but the rock solid build quality and the quality of the parts has dropped over the years. Without buying a National Match or Super Match quality rifle, the accuracy between stock FAL and stock M1A will be similar. An HK91/G3 will be in the same ballpark as well and about the price of a FAL, but thats another story. FAL reliability is excellent and I appreciate being able to adjust my gas system for different loadings if the situation demands it.

There are plenty of gunsmiths that can work on M1As and plenty of work for them to do on weapons no longer covered by warranty. Given the high demand, you may have a longer wait. It's my understanding though that any gunsmithing you want done will tend to run a bit higher than FAL gunsmithing services and some smiths will frown on some of the parts frequently found on Chinese and even the recent Springfield Armory rifles which may prompt replacements.

While I haven't joined the ranks of FAL owners yet, I'm well on my way. No other rifle in this class impresses me as much and I looked seriously at an AR10 build prior to choosing the FAL. $1500 was my budget, which I will beat, but with goodies thrown in that I managed to squeeze doing a gunsmith guided build from a reputable local smith and some good, but used milspec parts.

-R

rocketeng
04-21-2011, 7:10 PM
Thank you for all the input. DSA it is.

oldMANmtn
06-08-2011, 7:02 PM
has anyone out there used the precision front sights?& are they worth the cash,or not?

seronian
06-08-2011, 7:13 PM
I went for it, picking up my DSA SA58 tactical carbine in 3 days. Thanks to the troops at Valkyrie Arms.

sdbobbyt
06-08-2011, 7:45 PM
I went for it, picking up my DSA SA58 tactical carbine in 3 days. Thanks to the troops at Valkyrie Arms.

Awesome. Post the pics when you get it!

seronian
06-08-2011, 8:41 PM
Awesome. Post the pics when you get it!

Will do.

voiceoftheright
06-08-2011, 9:44 PM
I love the FAL. Entreprise Arms with cutdown barrel to 17 inches. Pic is from when rifle was in free state with 30 rounder. I had some problems initially with feeding but adjusted the feed lips on some mags and no more bolt override.
http://i731.photobucket.com/albums/ww318/deadbydawn1984/bjj.jpg

AM9000
06-08-2011, 9:59 PM
Similarly to the AK, the Fal is not an ideal optic platform. If not for that, I would buy one.

Bladewurk
06-13-2011, 12:03 PM
Definitely get a Fal everyone should have one! I have 2 FAL and an L1a1SLR. Fals are so inexpensive for a basic rifle and alot of value and power in a great modular package. Not a great DMR or precision rifle IMO tho. I highly recommend DSA Receivers..

I am liking this one right now just went featureless..

Israeli Clone with Forward assist and my own Kydex epoxied grip

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg26/bladewurk/IsraeliFalPics002.jpg

Coolguy101
06-13-2011, 1:51 PM
id say DSA only on the basis of the guys from enterprice mad dogging me at the gunshow.

You probably deserved it.

t42beal13t
06-13-2011, 4:51 PM
You absolutely have to FAL. I've considered selling mine in the past but always decide to keep it. Be cautious with the new DSA items because from reading over at FALFiles, they're having a few QC problems.

seronian
06-13-2011, 7:06 PM
You absolutely have to FAL. I've considered selling mine in the past but always decide to keep it. Be cautious with the new DSA items because from reading over at FALFiles, they're having a few QC problems.

Ouch!

Tank 57
06-13-2011, 7:24 PM
Get one.You'll like it.My Aussie L1A1 RAW.
http://http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n27/TankMechanic/11-02-09006.jpg

Richard Erichsen
06-19-2011, 7:41 AM
has anyone out there used the precision front sights?& are they worth the cash,or not?

Do tell, what did you mean by "precision" front sight? I bought a KNS crosshair front sight that might fit that criterion. This is what it looks like:

http://www.knsprecisioninc.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=KNS1&Product_Code=FALDU&Category_Code=FNFALSTG58

The "duplex" crosshair is .020" stepping to .010" in the center. Those are a lot finer dimensionally than typical FAL front sights. Buy a front sight tool or it will be unpleasant to remove what's in there and replace it. The KNS appear to use brass, which I found out when I was adjusting the sight height and getting it in position I dinged the round bit where the wire is attached for the crosshair. Nothing magic marker couldn't fix, but just be aware it's soft.

BTW I didn't like he Holland rear aperture sight - it was a fixed type sight and while it looked good didn't make me happy. I bought a DSA M16A2 type hooded rear sight with dual apertures and windage adjustment knob.

-R

Richard Erichsen
06-19-2011, 7:44 AM
Get one.You'll like it.My Aussie L1A1 RAW.


So, is that a South African/Rhodesian 30 rounder, or a new DSA variety? If it's the old stock of SA/Rhodie mags, any probs with it? Plenty of ugly rumors on reliability on those - DSA 30rnd mags are so new nobody seems to know for sure if they are an improvement.

-R

Richard Erichsen
06-19-2011, 7:48 AM
Definitely get a Fal everyone should have one! I have 2 FAL and an L1a1SLR. Fals are so inexpensive for a basic rifle and alot of value and power in a great modular package. Not a great DMR or precision rifle IMO tho. I highly recommend DSA Receivers..

I am liking this one right now just went featureless..

Israeli Clone with Forward assist and my own Kydex epoxied grip


Nice Izzy clone - that grip strap looks just like a Solar Tactical, minus the three telltale screws/nuts they use. I'm betting you are in Cali - I will have to do the same thing (already have my ST grip strap) and have my lower ready to go. Epoxy is the right way to go so that it's effectively permanent - new PGs are running $15.00, so no great loss to ruin one to meet state law imposed PG workarounds.

-R

Shinobi'sZ
06-19-2011, 7:54 AM
DS Arms get a sand cut carrier otherwise the FAL is unreliable when dirty from what I heard Larry Vickers and the Israelis say I don't know much about the FAL except an M1A is a better battle rifle :D

I have an Imbel FAL, and have a post going in this sub forum with a pic of my groups @ 100 yards being fired from a pinic bench with just the table and my shoulder support. My friend has a new M1A, I was shooting as good if not better groups then him and he was at a bench rest with sandbags.

My other friend has a stripped down "accurized" M1A with a Nightforce Scope on it and I can hit steel targets down range @580 yards all day with it. I won't even put a scope on my FAL.

I agree that the M1A is more accurate then a FAL with respect to MOA, but I don't necessarilly agree that it is a better battle rifle, the FAL has been one of the most widely used Battle Rifles in 80 countries.

It has an adjustable gas tube for varying environments and ammo type. Once the operator learns the gas tube system, they eliminate the issue.

Go over to FAL files forum and you will get better information regarding the FAL then on this board.

Yes DSA sells FALs and parts, so does CGW, and possibly PRK (Fresno).


FAL - I personally prefer forged receiver over cast. Since it's hard to get a real "FN", then let's talk about other brands available:

d) Imbel receiver - My favorite as they are really forged, which is what I like in a heavy caliber plus they are real "FN" as they are licensed by FN. I currently own an Israeli Heavy Barrel built on one.

I have a IMBEL FAL, love it. Here was my shot group from yesterday seated on a picnic bench on the range just using the bottom of the mag and my shoulder for support. German surplus ammo and I have the shortest barrel configuration.

Richard Erichsen
06-19-2011, 8:03 AM
Similarly to the AK, the Fal is not an ideal optic platform. If not for that, I would buy one.

Don't let that stop you, there are a number of well built top covers that can mount optics and are very solid/no loss of zero type designs. The one downside for units from DSA (Extreme Duty scope mount top covers, two kinds) is that they mount so solidly that I understand that you do not even attempt to remove them to clean the weapon anymore than absolutely necessary. Once attached, they are basically semi-permanent/don't muck with it type appliances.

A quick lookup on Brownells and MidwayUSA showed at least three vendors selling FAL top covers, though I'm aware of 4. DSA, ARMS, Leapers/UTG and B-Square. Leapers is the cheapest, while ARMS is the most costly. In the middle of the pack are B-Square and DSA. B-Square's top cover mount comes with rings, but if you need something other than the more common 1"/30 mm rings, you'll need to buy them. I don't care for how high the B-Square rings are (intentional, so you can use your iron sights as a backup), it would be smart if B-Square dropped the rings and just sold the top cover mount by itself.

I've got buddies with all of these mounts, except the Leapers. Read into that as you may. The H&K 91/G3, 94 and MP5 are a lot more interesting to mount optics on.

-R

Richard Erichsen
06-19-2011, 8:20 AM
I have an Imbel FAL, and have a post going in this sub forum with a pic of my groups @ 100 yards being fired from a pinic bench with just the table and my shoulder support. My friend has a new M1A, I was shooting as good if not better groups then him and he was at a bench rest with sandbags.

My other friend has a stripped down "accurized" M1A with a Nightforce Scope on it and I can hit steel targets down range @580 yards all day with it. I won't even put a scope on my FAL.

I agree that the M1A is more accurate then a FAL with respect to MOA, but I don't necessarilly agree that it is a better battle rifle, the FAL has been one of the most widely used Battle Rifles in 80 countries.

It has an adjustable gas tube for varying environments and ammo type. Once the operator learns the gas tube system, they eliminate the issue.

Go over to FAL files forum and you will get better information regarding the FAL then on this board.

Yes DSA sells FALs and parts, so does CGW, and possibly PRK (Fresno).

Compare a rack grade FAL to a rack grade M1A and there will be no real difference in downrange accuracy. Comparing a highly accurized M1A with custom work on the action, high quality barrel and a quality bedded stock to a parts kit FAL is an apples to oranges debate (similar to comparing brand new accurized AR15s to rebuilt Century WASR AKs). With enough money and interest, the FAL can at least be made to be considerably more accurate than the average shooter. Shooting 1" groups at 600 yards comes at a cost and not one I'm currently interested in spending. 2-4" groups @ 100 yards is more than adequate for a hunting rifle. Pinpoint accuracy I can only achieve from a prone position, or on a rest/sandbags doesn't interest me much at all.

For $38.00 or so you can have a trigger job done on the FAL to drop the 8-9 lb pull (with the usual slop of a military trigger) down to the fine crisp triggers you find on target rifles. Mixing and matching bolts and bolt carriers until you find one with the least play, having the tools/knowledge or a smith to set tight headspacing and good fit between lower and upper receiver will get you most of the rest of the way, as I understand it from some of the FAL builders anyway. FAL is a tough rifle, reliable and accurate enough for all practical purposes and right now, going for a whole lot less than they used to. I prefer the parts kit route with parts from the StG58 and G1 as my starting point due to both cost and quality - no new barrels from DSA (Badger is the OEM) appear to be as good as the NOS barrels from the lightly used surplus FAL rifles. DSA still makes what appears to be the best receivers stateside (for US parts count and customer service), but Imbel makes a good receiver if you have your parts count worked out using more US parts elsewhere.

-R

Shinobi'sZ
06-19-2011, 8:33 AM
2-4" groups @ 100 yards is more than adequate for a hunting rifle. Pinpoint accuracy I can only achieve from a prone position, or on a rest/sandbags doesn't interest me much at all.

I normally only comment if I owned it or spent time operating, since you don't own a FAL but identify some key things that I find of value too from the FAL platform, you might be interested in my pic attachment from yesterday while adjusting the iron sites on my IMBEL (upper) FAL without using a bench with sandbags. 10 rounds fired while holding at 6 O'clock, and 10 rounds fired holding Naval Zero, the rear site is set at 200 meters. so at 100 they are supposed to be higher. As you can see the first 20 rounds were all to the left, I taped them up, re-adjusted the rear sight a bit, and didn't touch it again after the round pic'd. German surplus ammo used for this as well...nothing special..except the low price!

I do have interest in pinpoint accuracy as well, but I get that from my Rem 700P, for which I shot the center out of a .25 size target yesterday @100 yards. Then after 4 more rounds there was just one hole.

But I didn't buy my FAL to get MOA as much as MOE groups. The design is such that the iron sites are zero'd at 200 meters with the idea to hit within center body mass 18" @ 200 meters. No reason to put a scope on it.

But the M1A is a better DMR, and there was a FAL submitted for the Army's SASS trial and it was beaten by the Knight's Arnament .308. If I was still in the military and deployed I would like to use a SCAR H or M14 for duty. I have AR 15s and they are great, but I like having something that will shoot through doors and such if caught under fire. I have interest in building an AR .308 as well in the near future. Aeroprecision makes a nice .308 lower.

Mr310
06-19-2011, 8:38 AM
Keep the pictures coming, boys! This thread is sexy. :notworthy:

H2H
06-19-2011, 9:51 AM
I can get an enterprise arms FAL built with Steyr parts for a very good price .Looks brand new. Should I get it ? what kind of bullet button do I need to get ?thanks

Tank 57
06-19-2011, 10:01 AM
So, is that a South African/Rhodesian 30 rounder, or a new DSA variety? If it's the old stock of SA/Rhodie mags, any probs with it? Plenty of ugly rumors on reliability on those - DSA 30rnd mags are so new nobody seems to know for sure if they are an improvement.

-R

Too old to be DSA.Only tried it a couple of times.No functioning issues.Don't like 30 rounders in 7.62/.308.Too heavy and too long.Turns a nice handling gun into an awkward gun.IMHO,20 rounders are the way to go in any rifle in this caliber.

toopercentmlk
06-19-2011, 1:25 PM
FAL to me as I am most familiar with it.

That being said, I feel any of the other .308 Battle Rifles will do the job:

Saiga .308 - Reliable AK system and the best priced. Quite possibly, very sturdy due to being an AK.

G3 series - Quite possibly one of the sturdiest battle rifles. Very accurate if getting the models with the TC barrel and very reliable if using the G3 spec fluted barrel. Here's my take on them:
a) HK - the creme of the crop, but models like the HK91 (maybe the HK41) are restricted by name. Expect to pay top $$$$$$ for a real German made model (HK911 or SR9 or PSG1).
b) PTR91 - Built on blueprints of the Portuguese G3s. Possibly the best American made G3 series, some even say better than the original HK, but that's arguable. Except for the serial number with prefix "A" and the GI model, they use Thompson Contender barrels.
c) Other clones (Vector, etc...) - Don't know much about them. I read some are great and some are crap.

AR - Two patterns: Armalite and DPMS. I choose DPMS pattern only because there are more parts and accessories available. Arguably, may be the most accurate semiauto battle rifle mainly in DI gas system (LMT MWS, enough said) though there are some who'll argue that their GP system LWRC REPRs and SIG 716s are ultra-accurate. Building one may be the most economical option.

M14/M1A - The Springer M1Ais the most available, but it's made on a cast receiver and most recent production don't use GI spec parts like the earlier ones. Still, SA has a great Customer Service second to none. LRB M14s is what I like the most because of its forged receiver, but it is pricy and maybe the most expensive of the bunch. The Chinese (Polytech and Norinco) made rifles are good values and have a forged receiver, but if you replace its other parts for GI, it may cost you as much as getting a new Springer. I don't know about Fulton, but read good things about them. M14/M1A rifles are derived from the M1 Garand rifle, a proven system. Despite not being the standard issue rifle today, it is still being used as a sniper or DMR rifle; I even heard some military units preferring to use them over the M4/M16.

SCAR17 - It looks to be possibly the best battle rifle, but I have two things against it: Parts are only available from FN, especially its expensive mags and No proven long track record (like G3, FAL, M1A) though the same can be said of Saiga and most .308 ARs.

FAL - I personally prefer forged receiver over cast. Since it's hard to get a real "FN", then let's talk about other brands available:
a) Entreprise - possibly the best value if they work, but their receivers are cast, not FN licensed and reversed engineered. They seem to be hit or miss, but I owned one and never had an issue. However, I read from others that had issues with them. Although I never had issues dealing with their Customer Service, I read others have issues dealing with them.
b) Coonan Arms - Cast receivers. I have not read about any problems with them and gunplumber (Mark T Graham) recommends them when I talked to him. Once again, they are not FN licensed and I don't know if they're reversed engineered.
c) DSA - Quite possibly the best American made FALs. Forged receiver from what I gather. They are not FN licensed, but they are built from Steyr stg-58 blueprints. I currently one of their stripped receivers and planning on building one.
d) Imbel receiver - My favorite as they are really forged, which is what I like in a heavy caliber plus they are real "FN" as they are licensed by FN. I currently own an Israeli Heavy Barrel built on one.

Thanks!

limitdown
06-19-2011, 5:46 PM
If you don't have an M14-type gun yet, then definitely consider it before considering a FAL.

rocketeng
08-27-2011, 5:15 PM
Thanks guys I now own a DSA FAL with aimpoint red dot and am able to put rounds down range accurately. 1/2 inch MOA will post pics later. Shocked me! DSA wants pics, testimonial for their site too. Love this thing. it is now my go to rifle.

X-NewYawker
08-27-2011, 7:29 PM
I had an FN FAL. Imported by Steyr in the 1970s. You're SOL.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p54/Fasanoland/Rifles/DSaRMSFN.jpg
I got this DS arms to recreate my FAL loving days --
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p54/Fasanoland/Rifles/IMG_6115.jpg

Sadly, all the FALs we can own here from Enterprise, or DS Arms, are butchered and castrated, and are PALE imitations of the BElgian made rifle. Some may actually be better rifles, but they are NOT FN FALs…

When I used to protect the crop in 1979:
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p54/Fasanoland/Rifles/Daddy-and-his-FN-FAL-.jpg

emtnsocali
08-27-2011, 8:10 PM
do it......im a fan of dsarms and imbel. this is an imbel parts kit barrel cut to 16'' and got a falcon arms para lower. i loooooove my rifle
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e163/emtnsocali/myfal.jpg