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walkerenglish
04-13-2011, 7:33 AM
Hello All,

Sorry for being MIA for the past couple of months. This time of year is extremely busy for all manufacturers in the business. We have been working hard on the CA market and are pleased to announce that our rifles will/are being sold in Turner's. Currently we are working on a slot for the upcoming show in June. If we get it you all will be able to come and shoot all of the CA legal rifles and I will be at the show myself to answer any questions and I will bring my thick skin too in case any haters want to come out berate me.

pacifico23
04-13-2011, 7:38 AM
Lol. Haters are gonna hate. I was wondering if you guys are going to ever consider making the Arsenal Ca Legal ak's with a detachable BB? Also, will Turners be offering the SGL-21 with detachable lock? Thanks!

PatriotnMore
04-13-2011, 7:38 AM
Let me ask, at all discount levels you offer wholesale vendors, is your vendor sales price point higher here, than other States?

walkerenglish
04-13-2011, 7:44 AM
Lol. Haters are gonna hate. I was wondering if you guys are going to ever consider making the Arsenal Ca Legal ak's with a detachable BB? Also, will Turners be offering the SGL-21 with detachable lock? Thanks!

no detachable BB on the drawing board...I never say never though because at one point (for many years) we did not sell in CA. Turner's right now only has the SGL23 (CA version of the SGL21). Lock is permanently affixed to the rifle.

walkerenglish
04-13-2011, 7:49 AM
Let me ask, at all discount levels you offer wholesale vendors, is your vendor sales price point higher here, than other States?

wow...had to read this about three times before I fully understood what you were asking (guess I should have pursued that degree a little more...ha ha ). So I think you are basically asking does our CA rifle cost more than a comparable rifle for other states? The answer to that is yes, but only slightly ($25-$50 depending on the model). This doesn't even cover the full cost of making it CA legal, don't get me wrong we are still making money (not trying to insult your intelligence) we just didn't want to jack CA customers for large amounts $, just because it was CA compliant. Hope that answers your question.

CSACANNONEER
04-13-2011, 7:50 AM
Uh, ALL your title one firearms can be made Ca legal without your proprietary lock. Removable locks are nice since, they allow the firearm to be easily return to it's original design when people travel out of Ca and/or go featureless. They can even be configured in such a way that no magazine lock is required. Just remove or pin folding stocks, remove FHs and replace with MBs, either install a Monsterman grip or a Kydex grip wrap and they are perfectly legal in Ca without a mag lock and we can use our legally owned +10 round mags too.

It's good to see that you have finally come around and realized that your guns are legal in Ca. I'm just not sure what you can do to get the sour taste out of my mouth which is still there from when you used to wrongly tell all your distributors that your guns were not legal in Ca. As far as I'm concerned, you've got a long way to go to correct the problems you've caused in the past. But, I'm happy to see that you've started to come around and have started the long journey to recitfying your past errors. Keep up the good work and maybe someday you'll earn my total respect.

ElvenSoul
04-13-2011, 7:56 AM
Have been wondering if you guys are ever going to sell "Featureless"? Thanks for coming around and selling to us!

pacifico23
04-13-2011, 7:57 AM
Jeez Cannoneer at least they are trying now, every time he posts you rip him a new a hole. I totally agree they could sell and do sell them in ca without the permanently fixed lock. But I could understand them wanting to cover their butts since they just jumped in the markt. But in the next couple years... Once those guys fully understand the Ca laws they really should consider it. It will be way more profitable for Arsenal.

frankm
04-13-2011, 7:58 AM
Good news. But, you should really consider the removable bullet button. People that cruise this site, and others in the know, will balk at your rifles with permanent bullet buttons. I know I wouldn't consider one. You might sell a lot to those that don't really care, but you're cutting out the experienced black rifle crowd. IMO. Anyway, good to see you're making progress.

mariodesmo
04-13-2011, 8:07 AM
Politics aside, glad to see your rifles in California. I recently saw one of your youtube videos with Nutnfancy doing some shootin' out in the Vegas desert. So, I went down to my local dealer and he just happened to have one of your SGL-23's on the rack, and two others already sold. I looked it over and bought it right then and there. Once its jail time was over (waiting period) I picked it up and went straight to the range. I've shot 300 rounds so far, with not one hick-up. And it's an impressive weapon. Nicely finished, looks very nice and shoots great. You've done a really good job on that conversion.

I‘ve been intrigued by the AK for some time, although I've been an AR kind of guy for over 30 years. This is the first AK I've seen that I would consider owning due to the workmanship, and fit and finish. I'm now considering the SGL-33 in 5.45x39... But I don't need another caliber of ammo to buy, magazines, yada, yada...

Good Luck!

CSACANNONEER
04-13-2011, 8:21 AM
Jeez Cannoneer at least they are trying now, every time he posts you rip him a new a hole. I totally agree they could sell and do sell them in ca without the permanently fixed lock. But I could understand them wanting to cover their butts since they just jumped in the markt. But in the next couple years... Once those guys fully understand the Ca laws they really should consider it. It will be way more profitable for Arsenal.

Reread my post. I thought it was informative and I did give them some credit for taking a baby step after years of watching other companies run marathons in the California market.

Modimo
04-13-2011, 8:34 AM
Uh, ALL your title one firearms can be made Ca legal without your proprietary lock. Removable locks are nice since, they allow the firearm to be easily return to it's original design when people travel out of Ca and/or go featureless. They can even be configured in such a way that no magazine lock is required. Just remove or pin folding stocks, remove FHs and replace with MBs, either install a Monsterman grip or a Kydex grip wrap and they are perfectly legal in Ca without a mag lock and we can use our legally owned +10 round mags too.

It's good to see that you have finally come around and realized that your guns are legal in Ca. I'm just not sure what you can do to get the sour taste out of my mouth which is still there from when you used to wrongly tell all your distributors that your guns were not legal in Ca. As far as I'm concerned, you've got a long way to go to correct the problems you've caused in the past. But, I'm happy to see that you've started to come around and have started the long journey to recitfying your past errors. Keep up the good work and maybe someday you'll earn my total respect.

^^^^ This... Great to see you guys in CA, but while in the market for an AK, I'm not in for one with the proprietary mag lock...

ZombieTactics
04-13-2011, 8:45 AM
Arsenal AKs are very good. I just can't see why I would want to buy a "factory model" with a permanently-affixed BB device when I can easily get the same rifle imported into CA with a (arguably better quality) raddlock or something similar.

The whole things comes across as though you really have no idea whatsoever what you are doing in this respect. That does not send a "quality message", if you take my meaning clearly.

This is isn't rocket science. You have ONE meeting where someone in charge INFORMS everyone that you are going to stop being stuck on stupid and instead start shipping rifles to CA with factory-installed raddlocks. Problem solved, mindshare gained, idiocy fixed.

Otherwise ... what the hell are you thinking?

Super Spy
04-13-2011, 8:45 AM
How about a featureless SVD, not a PSL, real Russian Dragunov guts, a brake, 10 round mags....Even better if it chambers 308 as there are many more choices in ammo.

I can dream can't I?

ElvenSoul
04-13-2011, 8:49 AM
+1 on SVD...US Mad reciever and US Mad Chrome Lined Barrel...come on there has to be a way?

Modimo
04-13-2011, 8:50 AM
Arsenal AKs are very good. I just can't see why I would want to buy a "factory model" with a permanently-affixed BB device when I can easily get the same rifle imported into CA with a (arguably better quality) raddlock or something similar.

The whole things comes across as though you really have no idea whatsoever what you are doing in this respect. That does not send a "quality message", if you take my meaning clearly.

This is isn't rocket science. You have ONE meeting where someone in charge INFORMS everyone that you are going to stop being stuck on stupid and instead start shipping rifles to CA with factory-installed raddlocks. Problem solved, mindshare gained, idiocy fixed.

Otherwise ... what the hell are you thinking?

Yup, I think this is a classic circumstance of "Not knowing your customer".

The good news is, as Zombie mentioned, it is a very easy solution to fix!

RealBarber
04-13-2011, 8:52 AM
you need to put out some CA legal rifles from Kazanlak

Quickdraw Mcgraw
04-13-2011, 8:57 AM
u guys are funny...actin like yer talking to the owner of the company an all...Walker is there rep...not the owner! Keep yer head up Walker!

walkerenglish
04-13-2011, 9:54 AM
u guys are funny...actin like yer talking to the owner of the company an all...Walker is there rep...not the owner! Keep yer head up Walker!

BINGO! Doing the best I can with what I got ladies and gents. At the end of the day there are attorneys, the owner, and other key personal involved with the decision of what and where to sell. I am one guy and I am pleased as HELL! to see that we are selling in CA. The other thing is that no matter what we cannot be all things to all people. Hope we see you all at the Turner's show.

C_1
04-13-2011, 10:01 AM
Yeah, glad to see you guys are finally coming around.. Only gripe is that lock. You guys need a lock that is remove-able or offer featureless AKs. What I really want is an SLR107CR, but a CA legal version (SLR's banned by name).

Mr_Monkeywrench
04-13-2011, 10:09 AM
Kinda reminds me of those bushmasters with the welded mag plates. Those were on the shelves forever. I passed on those, I think ill pass on these too. :)

frankm
04-13-2011, 10:26 AM
Walker, based on this thread, Arsenal should revisit the bullet button thing. Do you think they will do that?

walkerenglish
04-13-2011, 10:54 AM
Walker, based on this thread, Arsenal should revisit the bullet button thing. Do you think they will do that?

I'm sure I could find threads that should cause me to revisit my marriage vows...it doesn't mean that I'm going to do that though. We have made something that is selling well in CA. I'm sorry if I can't please everyone, if we revisited the BB it still wouldn't make everyone happy. Right now it is what it is, if CA ever changes the law we WILL restore the rifle to the original configuration at no charge to the customer. Every rifle is shipped with a coupon for that.

Dhena81
04-13-2011, 11:00 AM
I'd like to see something in 5.56 or a VEPR conversion

Beatone
04-13-2011, 11:02 AM
Yeah, glad to see you guys are finally coming around.. Only gripe is that lock. You guys need a lock that is remove-able or offer featureless AKs. What I really want is an SLR107CR, but a CA legal version (SLR's banned by name).

Same here on the SLR-107. Try and get rid of those banned names, SLR, SLG. Also I know you guys want to cover your behinds but a Solar Tactical lock would be great and legal. A Kydex wrap would be nice on a featureless rifle.
I like your rifles and hope to buy more with these changes. It's like buying a burger, you want it you way. (And still be legal) :43:
Thanks

CSACANNONEER
04-13-2011, 11:08 AM
Walker, based on this thread, Arsenal should revisit the bullet button thing. Do you think they will do that?

Baby steps come first. We wouldn't want them to miss out on all the fun we had back in '04, would we. Hell, at least they didn't feel the need to weld magazines in place. Remember those builds?

problemchild
04-13-2011, 11:10 AM
Maybe you guys can talk to KAC. Those *****s wont even ship me an extractor because I live in CA.

No CA sales NO money from me. All the companies do that do not sell to CA is help Nancy Pelosi and fellow Libtardz de-arm CA residents. Might as well give them money for their political campaigns too.

rojocorsa
04-13-2011, 11:13 AM
if CA ever changes the law we WILL restore the rifle to the original configuration at no charge to the customer. Every rifle is shipped with a coupon for that.

That's nice to hear. Really is.


But like others, I respectfully agree that the permanent mag lock is a dumb idea. I know its not up to you personally, so no hard feelings. The SGL I'm saving up for will be a featureless build when I get it.

Beatone
04-13-2011, 11:20 AM
Baby steps come first. We wouldn't want them to miss out on all the fun we had back in '04, would we. Hell, at least they didn't feel the need to weld magazines in place. Remember those builds?

Kind of like Centuries current AK lever mags.

CSACANNONEER
04-13-2011, 12:00 PM
Kind of like Centuries current AK lever mags.

I haven't seen a Century lever mag. I did get lucky enough to score an old one from when a CGer was making them years ago. I use it on my pistol build just to be different.

walkerenglish
04-13-2011, 12:14 PM
OK! OK! OK!....if you guys promise to shut up about the feature less rifle for a while I promise that I will present this to the powers that be and have an answer at the shooting fair in the first part of June...and yes I did confirm we will be there with a booth and guns...and ammo.

walkerenglish
04-13-2011, 12:15 PM
Don't get your hopes up guys...I just said I will check into it....remember it took us how many years to come to CA?????

Josh3239
04-13-2011, 12:17 PM
+1

I'd like to see some more 5.56mm AKs. It would be particularly helpful to those of us in SoCal who can't shoot very much, if any, 7.62x39 or 5.45mm at our ranges. Besides I am pretty invested in the 5.56mm just like most American shooters. I tihnk most of us on this board and other shooters in this country have multiple 5.56mm rifles and most of the reloaders probably reload it.

I'd like to see something in 5.56 or a VEPR conversion

stix213
04-13-2011, 12:22 PM
Glad to see Arsenal giving CA some overdue attention Walker.

Though I have to say I wouldn't buy an SGL23 specifically because I don't like the magazine lock design you guys have gone with. There is no legal reason not to go with a lock that covers the standard mag release like nearly all AK's sold in CA are running. Something like this:

http://www.solartactical.com/SOLAR-TACTICAL-GEN-2-AK-MAGAZINE-LOCK-124.htm

Because then I have the choice of using it stock with 10 round mags, or going featureless with a kydex grip wrap, removing the lock, and running adult sized 30 rounders.

If you've been paying attention to the 2A forum here you'd know the Calguns Foundation has a plan already in motion to return sales of high cap mags to California. (the giant thread about it with over 3k posts) We're within days now of seeing the lawsuit filed, and probably just months away from seeing these mags back. At that point no one will want a rifle that is difficult to convert to featureless configuration.

Edit:

OK! OK! OK!....if you guys promise to shut up about the feature less rifle for a while I promise that I will present this to the powers that be and have an answer at the shooting fair in the first part of June...and yes I did confirm we will be there with a booth and guns...and ammo.

Haha sorry! Started typing before your post appeared :p

jawcn
04-13-2011, 12:22 PM
I bought a SGL23 which shoots better than my Chinese and Polish AK as far as accuracy goes. I want to get the mill receiver one, but the permanent BB stops me buying the second Arsenal...

Beatone
04-13-2011, 12:22 PM
Don't get your hopes up guys...I just said I will check into it....remember it took us how many years to come to CA?????

Thanks Walker. As i said I think your AK's are great. Yes change takes time but we have money to spend.

Farva
04-13-2011, 12:30 PM
I love my SGL21, with my Solar Tac Maglock that I can take off anytime I want and install a kydex wrap to make it featureless, depending on my mood.

elSquid
04-13-2011, 1:01 PM
OK! OK! OK!....if you guys promise to shut up about the feature less rifle for a while I promise that I will present this to the powers that be and have an answer at the shooting fair in the first part of June...and yes I did confirm we will be there with a booth and guns...and ammo.

http://www.monstermangrip.com/Customer_Photos.php

http://www.monstermangrip.com/images/albums/NewAlbum_1de38/tn_bfak03.jpg

:whistling:

-- Michael

MrPlink
04-13-2011, 1:03 PM
I'm with the whack jobs that say make a SVD.

CSACANNONEER
04-13-2011, 1:05 PM
OK! OK! OK!....if you guys promise to shut up about the feature less rifle for a while I promise that I will present this to the powers that be and have an answer at the shooting fair in the first part of June...and yes I did confirm we will be there with a booth and guns...and ammo.

OK, I wish I could get to the fair and hear the answers straight from the horses mouth. Too bad they schedualed it the same weekend as a FCSA match.

Ryan in SD
04-13-2011, 1:07 PM
no detachable BB on the drawing board...I never say never though because at one point (for many years) we did not sell in CA. Turner's right now only has the SGL23 (CA version of the SGL21). Lock is permanently affixed to the rifle.

Why would you guys permanently attach a BB :confused:

Its cool that you finally realized you can make a ton of money in CA.

Merc1138
04-13-2011, 1:08 PM
I'm with the whack jobs that say make a SVD.

You mean an actual SVD clone and not just a PSL, right? Priced reasonably, I'd definitely consider one if it were available.

ke6guj
04-13-2011, 1:08 PM
OK, I wish I could get to the fair and hear the answers straight from the horses mouth. Too bad they schedualed it the same weekend as a FCSA match.
to be fair about it, the Shooting Sports Fair has usually been the first weekend of June for as long as I can recall.

CSACANNONEER
04-13-2011, 1:10 PM
to be fair about it, the Shooting Sports Fair has usually been the first weekend of June for as long as I can recall.

I know but, you'ld think they would have reschedualed it after realizing that the first week of June is all Coalinga was able to offer us.:rolleyes:

elSquid
04-13-2011, 1:15 PM
:whistling:


"Gripless" is an option as well. Anyone have any gripless AK pics handy?

This would be by far the easiest way for Arsenal to create a CA-Legal AK from a normal one. Just remove the pistol grip; don't even ship the PG with it for maximum CYA.

-- Michael

C_1
04-13-2011, 1:57 PM
OK! OK! OK!....if you guys promise to shut up about the feature less rifle for a while I promise that I will present this to the powers that be and have an answer at the shooting fair in the first part of June...and yes I did confirm we will be there with a booth and guns...and ammo.

If, or when (being hopeful), you bring it up with the big guys, tell em if they think they rifles are selling well now, wait til they switch to a remove-able mag lock, and/or offer a featureless rifle.

A lot of folks are going grip-less, use a kydex wrap, MMG, or a mag lock from Solar Tactical (make sure its the gen 2), PRK Arms, Prince50/Assault Planet, etc etc, and they are perfectly legal. But thats cool that the CA rifles are shipped with the "restore" coupon.

I know its baby steps first, but, making the SLR's with the AK100 polymer stock, and 1pc FSGB, into a new series (non banned name/model) would be super sweet. Ok I'll shut up :)

epikeddie
04-13-2011, 2:06 PM
Dang....I just sold off my Arsenal SGL-21 too.....I have buyer's remorse and you guys sure aren't making it any better!

The Arsenal rifles are great quality and I absolutely loved it while I had it.

MrPlink
04-13-2011, 4:04 PM
Yeah I mean (I assume others too) a true to guts SVD. I don't need arsenal to make a pretty PSL. I can do that myself

pyro3k2
04-13-2011, 4:19 PM
Yeah I mean (I assume others too) a true to guts SVD. I don't need arsenal to make a pretty PSL. I can do that myself

Im with you on that one, if they put out a true SVD, Yugo m76 or even a PSL on a milled reciever (if possible) I would start saving.

pyro3k2
04-13-2011, 4:26 PM
And to make it an even better idea, you would have a corner on a NATIONAL market if you start producing SVD's

Rekrab
04-13-2011, 5:05 PM
I like how Walker claims that they're taking a loss on the building of their bullet buttons... Seriously, he's got me dying over here.

Look, Walker, I respect you for being willing to walk into the lion's den. But this just makes zero sense. We've all been using bullet buttons that aren't integrated into our guns for years now. If you're SO concerned about someone doing something illegal, why aren't you welding the mags in place? You do know that if someone sticks a high capacity magazine into a fixed magazine rifle that's a felony right?

skylovia
04-13-2011, 6:41 PM
...lol. Does Arsenal realize that a stock Saiga(which is legal in CA and sold by many gun shops here), is basically the same as an Arsenal sgl-21 without the pistol grip, legally speaking? Really, think about it Walker. Tapco sells pistol grip stock for unconverted Saigas. Gun shops are NOT responsible for some idiot putting that stock on.

Merc1138
04-13-2011, 6:53 PM
I like how Walker claims that they're taking a loss on the building of their bullet buttons... Seriously, he's got me dying over here.


Uhh, no he didn't. He said they were still making money on them.

wow...had to read this about three times before I fully understood what you were asking (guess I should have pursued that degree a little more...ha ha ). So I think you are basically asking does our CA rifle cost more than a comparable rifle for other states? The answer to that is yes, but only slightly ($25-$50 depending on the model). This doesn't even cover the full cost of making it CA legal, don't get me wrong we are still making money (not trying to insult your intelligence) we just didn't want to jack CA customers for large amounts $, just because it was CA compliant. Hope that answers your question.

In plain English he said that the difference between the normal and CA version of the rifle does not cover the cost of how they're making them CA legal with their mag locks, and specifically pointed out that they are still making money selling them. That is clearly not stating that they are taking a loss. I'm no fan of arsenal, but at least avoid flat out making things up that the man never said.

stix213
04-13-2011, 7:20 PM
Come on guys, don't berate poor Walker over this! Hopefully we can get the people at Arsenal to understand that most of us just aren't interested in the SGL23, but what we really want is easier access to the SGL21/31 rifles with a now standard style removable magazine lock like all the other AK's on the gun shop shelves have.

Arsenal already has the product we want, and even at retail prices the magazine locks we use sell for less than $40. Hopefully the $$$ Arsenal is missing out on start changing some minds. I'm pretty sure California is the hottest AK market in the country right now.

Rekrab
04-13-2011, 7:25 PM
In plain English he said that the difference between the normal and CA version of the rifle does not cover the cost of how they're making them CA legal with their mag locks, and specifically pointed out that they are still making money selling them. That is clearly not stating that they are taking a loss. I'm no fan of arsenal, but at least avoid flat out making things up that the man never said.

Sorry if I wasn't clear enough, the way you read it is the way I meant it. I mean that their "California Mark-Up" doesn't cover the cost of their goofy proprietary mag lock.

Merc1138
04-13-2011, 7:27 PM
That's still not the same as taking a loss on the product. A loss would mean the thing costs them $700 to make and they sell it to dealers for $650. Instead they just have a lower margin is all.

RT13
04-13-2011, 8:29 PM
FWIW, the Arsenal permanent maglock is the only thing that has prevented me from getting an SGL23. I've been wanting one badly but will never get a permanent non removable with a tool maglock. I've always wanted an SGL despite all the politics and BS aside, but never with a permanent lock. I'll enjoy my factory Saiga for now. This is like when the first bullet buttons came out, or those Bushmaster Carbon 15's that had welded mags. Raddlock is what finally got me into EBR's. So nice and convenient o convert with a tool.

MrPlink
04-13-2011, 8:50 PM
By his own admission if the cost to produce their perma lock is actually that much higher, all the more it is beneficial for producer and consumer to use a std mag lock. Give solar tactical a call, they have the best lock on the market.
Save money, sell more guns, where do you lose?

Shady
04-13-2011, 8:54 PM
people in vegas sure are weird

shark92651
04-13-2011, 8:56 PM
Hello All,

Sorry for being MIA for the past couple of months. This time of year is extremely busy for all manufacturers in the business. We have been working hard on the CA market and are pleased to announce that our rifles will/are being sold in Turner's. Currently we are working on a slot for the upcoming show in June. If we get it you all will be able to come and shoot all of the CA legal rifles and I will be at the show myself to answer any questions and I will bring my thick skin too in case any haters want to come out berate me.

Walker, can you please explain why Arsenal will not honor a warranty on a brand new rifle if has an after-market, bolt on bullet button installed? A removable piece of metal that bolts around the trigger guard should not void the warranty on a brand new $800 rifle. Does bolting on a scope mount void the warranty as well? We had a brand new SGL-21 bought from a distributor that was missing the bullet guide. This was clearly a defect from the manufacturer, yet Arsenal would not honor the warranty because there was a bullet button installed to make it legal in California.

Rekrab
04-13-2011, 9:04 PM
That's still not the same as taking a loss on the product. A loss would mean the thing costs them $700 to make and they sell it to dealers for $650. Instead they just have a lower margin is all.

Their markup is more than the whole sale price on a Solar Tactical mag lock.

And I never, ever said they were taking a loss on the product as a whole, only their silly proprietary mag lock. If you misunderstood, I apologize, but I've now clarified myself twice here.

MrPlink
04-13-2011, 9:09 PM
Walker, can you please explain why Arsenal will not honor a warranty on a brand new rifle if has an after-market, bolt on bullet button installed? A removable piece of metal that bolts around the trigger guard should not void the warranty on a brand new $800 rifle. Does bolting on a scope mount void the warranty as well? We had a brand new SGL-21 bought from a distributor that was missing the bullet guide. This was clearly a defect from the manufacturer, yet Arsenal would not honor the warranty because there was a bullet button installed to make it legal in California.

oh snap

zfields
04-13-2011, 9:17 PM
yall can keep your overpriced saigas to yourself.

Beatone
04-13-2011, 9:33 PM
I think Walker is trying to help. No he's not the owner but he wants to hear our concerns. Let at least give him a chance. It's not perfect the situation but it is a start in the right direction..

Mr_Monkeywrench
04-13-2011, 9:41 PM
I think Walker is trying to help. No he's not the owner but he wants to hear our concerns. Let at least give him a chance. It's not perfect the situation but it is a start in the right direction..

I agree. I can see Walker is trying to help, and I can see his hands are tied, but as a California gun owner, I personally am tired of being treated like a bastard step child who's lucky to get scraps and is supposed to be thankful to get it (Companies like CTD, KAC, Sportsman Guide, and the like). I appreciate the effort, but we have things that work, and work well. If someone wants to come out with something that is obsolete and try to sell it to us, the California gun owner will express their opinions with their pocket book. Simple as that.

frankm
04-13-2011, 9:48 PM
OK! OK! OK!....if you guys promise to shut up about the feature less rifle for a while I promise that I will present this to the powers that be and have an answer at the shooting fair in the first part of June...and yes I did confirm we will be there with a booth and guns...and ammo.

That's a good fellow!

Rekrab
04-13-2011, 10:57 PM
I think Walker is trying to help. No he's not the owner but he wants to hear our concerns. Let at least give him a chance. It's not perfect the situation but it is a start in the right direction..

Having been a company representative myself I completely understand where he's coming from. If he's doing his job, he's relaying what we're saying to his managers. So, hopefully no one is attacking Walker personally, but the company he represents.

SVT-40
04-13-2011, 11:27 PM
Some people around here are like impatient children.

No matter how many times they are told the answer to a question, they just keep asking the same question hoping for a different answer.

Give the guy a break.

If you personally don't want to buy a rifle from them ....just don't. Like the old saying goes:

"Don't go away mad ......Just go away".

C_1
04-13-2011, 11:34 PM
Yah, dont kill the messenger.. But Walker, if you can kindly relay the message(s), that would great :)

skylovia
04-13-2011, 11:40 PM
I agree. I can see Walker is trying to help, and I can see his hands are tied, but as a California gun owner, I personally am tired of being treated like a bastard step child who's lucky to get scraps and is supposed to be thankful to get it (Companies like CTD, KAC, Sportsman Guide, and the like). I appreciate the effort, but we have things that work, and work well. If someone wants to come out with something that is obsolete and try to sell it to us, the California gun owner will express their opinions with their pocket book. Simple as that.

Word:cool2:

p.s. Walker, your guns can be had from 3rd parties with REMOVABLE bullet buttons and/or REMOVED PISTOL GRIPS!

p.s.s Walker, Big 5 sells their I.O. Inc CASAR, WITHOUT a pistol grip. I imagine a company that sell such a huge volume of weapons would make SURE their bases were covered on that.

Scott Connors
04-13-2011, 11:54 PM
It's good to hear that Turners is carrying your line of toys, but that leaves those of us in the northern part of the state SOL. Are there any dealers in the Sacramento area? I have to admit that I am giving very serious thought to an AK74 (am not a big 7.62x39mm fan).

joker619
04-14-2011, 12:18 AM
All you have to do is find a store that will sell or already does sell SGL-21's, and who add a bullet button for CA compliance. The SGL-23 is just too inconvenient for my liking for a $700+ AK.

nrakid88
04-14-2011, 12:21 AM
another concerned person. i have no money for your ak103 right now, but if i did it would be my first choice. however, this fixed bullet button rubs my balls the wrong way. just one more to tell the owner about, sure he will change his mind.

MrPlink
04-14-2011, 12:22 AM
Some people around here are like impatient children.

.

I think at this point after all these years we are really more like an angry mob

nrakid88
04-19-2011, 10:47 AM
I think at this point after all these years we are really more like an angry mob

Or a bunch of raving lunatics!

ChrisTKHarris
04-19-2011, 10:52 AM
Walker, can you please explain why Arsenal will not honor a warranty on a brand new rifle if has an after-market, bolt on bullet button installed? A removable piece of metal that bolts around the trigger guard should not void the warranty on a brand new $800 rifle. Does bolting on a scope mount void the warranty as well? We had a brand new SGL-21 bought from a distributor that was missing the bullet guide. This was clearly a defect from the manufacturer, yet Arsenal would not honor the warranty because there was a bullet button installed to make it legal in California.

I was considering buying an aftermarket Arsenal, but after seeing this I think I would rather buy a Saiga and convert it myself.

themailman
04-19-2011, 11:46 AM
I think this is simply a case of bad market research or not caring about your customer base. 30 mins and one call to the DOJ could have confirmed that a perm. attached mag lock is simply redunadant and useless. Arsenal can do whatever they want, I actually like their AK's, but in the case of their CA compliant rifles Californians have a right to be angry because Arsenal is pandering without just cause.

Backinblack1234
04-19-2011, 12:28 PM
Hows the sales of your CA Legal AK's? The perm mag lock was a bad idea I wonder who's wonderful idea it was to do that? They should have looked at Calguns for research. I did want an SGL 21 from Henderson but them not honoring the warranty because of a non perm maglock has stopped my purchase. Arsenal wins again... I admit there AKs are hella nice but you gotta vote with your wallet. They would win me back if they did no BS and Made an awesome CA Legal Krinkov with a removable mag lock and fixed stock .

hyeg35
05-16-2011, 3:34 PM
anyone besides Turners offering Arsenal SGL-21's in the SoCal area?

SamsDX
05-16-2011, 4:49 PM
anyone besides Turners offering Arsenal SGL-21's in the SoCal area?

Where in SoCal are you?

On the north end, I believe Addax Tactical sells them:
http://www.adxtactical.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=1710&idcategory=191

Further south in Orange County, Rifle Gear sells them:
http://www.riflegear.com/c-107-ak-style-rifles.aspx

I believe South Coast Outdoorsman in Orange does too, as does OC Armory in Laguna Niguel.

I know this topic has been hashed out many times in the last 6 months, but if the permanent mag lock is on advice of counsel, with all due respect, perhaps it's time to find new counsel. With this many potential California customers foregoing these needlessly neutered rifles, I find it difficult to believe they performed an adequate due diligence and risk-benefit analysis in advising Arsenal that this was necessary.

Secret
05-16-2011, 5:02 PM
+1

I'd like to see some more 5.56mm AKs. It would be particularly helpful to those of us in SoCal who can't shoot very much, if any, 7.62x39 or 5.45mm at our ranges. Besides I am pretty invested in the 5.56mm just like most American shooters. I tihnk most of us on this board and other shooters in this country have multiple 5.56mm rifles and most of the reloaders probably reload it.

This +10000000000000

FeuerFrei
05-16-2011, 6:30 PM
:rant:
Clearly Arsenal is NOT interested in actually selling in CA.
Their "legal counsel" was probably one of those idiots that wrote the crappy laws we are forced to negotiate while trying to enjoy our sport. That at least explains WHY permanent mag locks are installed on their rifles.
This just sounds to me that they woke up one day and decided to join the gang :censored: of CA shooters along with some other manufacturers that say they make CA legal/compliant weapons and end up charging us a premium for it.
I feel used and sullied by this whole thread. I am out. :mad:

blazeaglory
05-16-2011, 6:34 PM
i cant find any monster man grips for an AK:(

on a side note, the first AK type i ever owned/shot was an arsenal SLR-95, i fell in love immediately. but i hear everyone else about the BB locks. sucks because i love aresenal but would buy something else before an arsenal because of the permanent BB and the steep price

the stockade has arsenal AK's (or whatever the model is) in westminster by the courthouse

SamsDX
05-16-2011, 7:32 PM
i cant find any monster man grips for an AK:(


The regular Monsterman grips for the AR work with an adapter from ACE:

http://riflestocks.com/store/product56.html

The angle of the AR bolt and the AK bolt are obviously different, so it won't be an exact fit like you would get with a true AK pistol grip. There will be a slight gap between the trigger guard and the grip strap, but not all that bad:

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/9053/photo3mq.jpg

You'll also have to grind down the MMG to fit your particular stock - a dremel grinder and some work with a file should take care of the fit.

Bigtwin
05-16-2011, 8:05 PM
Walker, you have a tough road to hoe! If you are a good sales rep, you will put on the tough skin and plow through it!
Do some research and find out why CA folks are sore about Arsenal. After that find out how you can make it better! I realize you are not a one man show and can do only so much, that is where you come in as rep, providing the company with info (hopefuly acurate info as to the laws) to allow the company to produce available arms to CA legally!


I know that is a lot on your shoulders, but you must have expected it when taking the job!

WilliamAnderson
05-16-2011, 8:35 PM
Seriously though, more options are better. Just the fact that Arsenal is selling their rifles here is a step in the right direction for every person here in the state. However, I use Solar Tactical BB on my Romy G build that was built at the South Central Valley build party in Feb. I will use a BB on my upcoming Bulgy 74 build in June at the second SSV Build party on the 25/26th. I think Walker will be at least pleased with my choice of K-Var furniture in plum. I can't decide if I want to go with Warsaw length or Nato length on the stock....

SVT-40
05-16-2011, 11:22 PM
anyone besides Turners offering Arsenal SGL-21's in the SoCal area?

Gunslingers in Glendora usually has one or two on the shelf.

Moress
05-17-2011, 12:00 AM
I really hope you guys consider going down the route of detatchable BB's, if so I would totally hop on one of those AK's!

blazeaglory
05-17-2011, 6:20 AM
Come on guys, don't berate poor Walker over this! Hopefully we can get the people at Arsenal to understand that most of us just aren't interested in the SGL23, but what we really want is easier access to the SGL21/31 rifles with a now standard style removable magazine lock like all the other AK's on the gun shop shelves have.

Arsenal already has the product we want, and even at retail prices the magazine locks we use sell for less than $40. Hopefully the $$$ Arsenal is missing out on start changing some minds. I'm pretty sure California is the hottest AK market in the country right now.

i thought they banned AK's in california?? :laugh:

it sounds like aresenal is noticing also, and the $chingching$ is starting to make them pay more attention. i like this thread because i was a once loyal arsenal customer but now , uh, maybe notta so much.

everything aside, i still love the SGL rifle but i would not buy one with a fix lock

blazeaglory
05-17-2011, 6:21 AM
The regular Monsterman grips for the AR work with an adapter from ACE:

http://riflestocks.com/store/product56.html

The angle of the AR bolt and the AK bolt are obviously different, so it won't be an exact fit like you would get with a true AK pistol grip. There will be a slight gap between the trigger guard and the grip strap, but not all that bad:

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/9053/photo3mq.jpg

You'll also have to grind down the MMG to fit your particular stock - a dremel grinder and some work with a file should take care of the fit.

hell yeah, thanks!

strangerdude
05-17-2011, 6:40 AM
As much as I love my SGL31, arsenal you guys run your business like shiit. Why not sell featureless weapons by removing that ridiculous bb you guys created.

nickster
05-17-2011, 7:08 AM
Why couldn't someone just drill out the pin , replace the mag catch with a standard one and then install a bullet button ? ?

SamsDX
05-17-2011, 8:29 AM
Why couldn't someone just drill out the pin , replace the mag catch with a standard one and then install a bullet button ? ?

Not that you'd really need a warranty for an AK (one, it probably won't break, and two, there are plenty of resources and spare parts to get it to work right on your own if it does), but if you remove the permanent BB, it is voided. But, if you felt so inclined you most definitely could remove it, and there would be nothing illegal about that. I guess the question, though, is why? Why should a buyer have to go through that much trouble after paying a $300+ premium?

blazeaglory
05-17-2011, 8:38 AM
Not that you'd really need a warranty for an AK (one, it probably won't break, and two, there are plenty of resources and spare parts to get it to work right on your own if it does), but if you remove the permanent BB, it is voided. But, if you felt so inclined you most definitely could remove it, and there would be nothing illegal about that. I guess the question, though, is why? Why should a buyer have to go through that much trouble after paying a $300+ premium?

exactly. i paid $299 RETAIL for my SLR in 1999..Lol. what a price jump from then to today, huh?

nickster
05-17-2011, 8:40 AM
Well, you would wind up with what you want and get to spend some quality time personalizing your own ak. Just seems like the path of least resistance to me. I have one and that's what I'm going to do. :)

Rekrab
05-17-2011, 9:54 AM
Well, you would wind up with what you want and get to spend some quality time personalizing your own ak. Just seems like the path of least resistance to me. I have one and that's what I'm going to do. :)

I have a personalized Yugoslavian RPK and even after building it I spent less on it than I would on a neutered Arsenal.

Dhena81
05-17-2011, 11:01 AM
exactly. i paid $299 RETAIL for my SLR in 1999..Lol. what a price jump from then to today, huh?

I payed around $649-699 for an M7 in July 2004 at the National survival store in Vegas when I lived there now there like $1500 or something.

J.S.Riesch
05-17-2011, 2:12 PM
I agree. I can see Walker is trying to help, and I can see his hands are tied, but as a California gun owner, I personally am tired of being treated like a bastard step child who's lucky to get scraps and is supposed to be thankful to get it (Companies like CTD, KAC, Sportsman Guide, and the like). I appreciate the effort, but we have things that work, and work well. If someone wants to come out with something that is obsolete and try to sell it to us, the California gun owner will express their opinions with their pocket book. Simple as that.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS!!!!

Quickdraw Mcgraw
05-17-2011, 2:49 PM
ANOTHER: WOULD LOVE AN ARSENAL RIFLE, but WILL NOT BUY WITH ATTACHED BB!!!!!!

I have the $$ now, just waiting for you guys to CHANGE yer BB!!

please do it soon!!

762.DEFENSE
05-17-2011, 3:02 PM
Vote with your wallet, if you don't like it...don't buy it. :rolleyes: